Camscore vs Direct Payment

[Phoenix4987]

You're given a choice: $1000 direct or 10,000 tokens. Which would you prefer and why?

For discussion sake, assume you have a safe and reliable way of accepting $1,000 from a trusted member.

I was just curious about the different things that might come into play. I know it will vary depending on the person and their situation.

Hm, what brought this up is my personal spending will go down for my own reasons. I'd have to spend roughly $2,000 for an mfc model to bank $1,000. And I don't really like MFC stream quality, so I would much prefer Skype. So I wanted to still get my time with the model, and she can keep her income.

In her specific situation, I would say that camscore is not as important as she makes it out to be. She split cams on 3 other sites. And will often close out mfc to take privates on the other sites. I would think if she's so concerned about her camscore, she would only work on mfc. But because she split cams, even on a private based site where she has to work 3 minutes to earn what she makes in 1 minute on mfc in private, that she is more concerned about profit. Or has become somewhat dependent on my spending to keep her camscore afloat. (Although there is definitely another member who spends way more on her.)

In the end, it's her body, her shows and I respect that. That's why I gave her a head's up so she has time to decide what she would prefer. But also, I want a reasonable amount of time for $1,000 direct. Even in true pvt, an mfc model makes $240 an hour. So for $1,000 I was expecting around 4 hours.

Sounds reasonable to me, but what are some of your opinions ladies? Thanks in advance for your insight.

 

[Lorelei]

95% of the time I will want tokens because I do believe in camscore and rank bringing in new tippers, which is an upward spiral.

That other 5% accounts for the moments in life where very large unexpected expenses arise (aka medical emergencies, unforseen moving expenses, etc.).

I'm also of the opinion that I'm happy for MFC to get its cut, because none of my regs would even know I exist without the site having brought us together.

Other girls will have other opinions, but that's mine.


(Also I would say that 10k tokens/$1000 should get you about two hours in true private OR skype. I find it weird to give extra time [in this case double the length!] to a member who is using my non-preferred payment method. But again, this is just my opinion, and I'm pretty picky about doing privates to begin with.)

 

[Phoenix4987]

I mean I guess I could come down to 3 hours on Skype. But my whole point was that you can't spend tokens or camscore at the mall or whatever. So if you're only making 480 for 2 hours in true pvt, shouldn't I get a little more than 2 hours for $1,000? Mileage will vary like you said, which is why I opened the discussion to get an idea of what's reasonable.

And since she does split cam on so many sites and goes away from mfc more often than not, that she's more interested in profit. (Like I said, on the pvt-based site she works it's like ~2.00 a minute. Granted, she'll usually still leave the other sites open as long as she can before putting on a show and closing the other sites out, but it's still cheaper there regardless. But I don't go there)

:shrug: Entirely up to her. But I did let her know in advance so she can make a decision that best suits her needs. And I hope she can appreciate that.

 

[BraisleeAdams]

I would definitely prefer the tokens, especially with what that amount at once would do for my CS. My CS has been a long strange trip in the last 2 1/2 years (from 700s to 1-.1.4k to in the last few months 2.5k) and there's been a significant increase in traffic & income at each step. I can see the tokens being beneficial for a model looking to increase her CS increasing or maintaining her current. This is a career for many and long-term benefits outweigh the short-term extra cash for many of those same models.

 

[Shia]

As a newer model, I would take the tokens. It helps an insane amount with placement on the website and would help members find me. However if I was a established model and has a comfortable cam score backing me- I'd take the payment. It all depends on circumstances.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I find this fascinating, that models value tokens twice as much as dollars. I'm waiting for MFC to start selling camscore booster kits. 100 camscore for $200 or something.

 

[Phoenix4987]

Sort of my thinking as well. In the end, camscore isn't what pays your bills or what you go out shopping with. But I'm not a model on mfc, so I have no direct experience with feeling the impacts of it.

I just think that, especially if a girl is split-camming on 4 sites at once, that she's far more interested in her take home pay. Else, why do it in the first place? But that's specific to the model in my scenario and not the girls who only work on MFC.

Her main point of sales isn't public shows or public goals, she simply doesn't do them, she makes most of her $ in privates. And charming men to send her western union for whatever. So again, in her specific case, it doesn't seem like she works with the specific intent of raising her score.

But, anyway, I gave her advance notice of my new spending limit, so it's entirely up to her how she wants to gamble.

 

[Mara_Jayne]

I only work on mfc and do not take Skypes so my scenario is way off the mark to what you are looking for. But camscore is important in the long run, better placement equals over all more income but if I were strapped for money and took other forms of payment I would be more welcome to direct pay. Now everyone's Skype prices are different but I would not offer more time in Skype because it inconveniences me and the member is already getting more out of it with the better quality and getting to pay less for the experience.

 

[Phoenix4987]

It seems a little hard for her to attract new customers on MFC because she's constantly cutting her feed throughout the night to go do privates on other sites. Or if it seems slow she cuts it, but still works on the others.

Throughout the last few months from when I was spending a lot more, and others too, she was in the 6k range. But she took a little break around January and is now around 4k. During that time and even now, there hasn't been any change in her regulars. It's the same few dudes who spend on her every month with virtually no change since as far as I can remember. No new faces. Only the same members varying their spending to make her rise if they're spending lots, or fall if they spend less.

So that's the dangers of split-camming. Yes, you have the potential to increase your profits. But if you take privates from other sites where you earn less per minute or less payout per token than mfc, then it almost seems like a circle that won't break. And then if she leaves other sites open and dudes hear tip noises in the middle of that pvt, then the member can potentially leave and just not come back since he' supposed to be paying for 1:1 private, but you're still getting tips.

I can't say any of this to her and I don't. It's her business and she'll do what she wants. But with this type of business-model, she's never going to be a super high camscore model. And I think it's a bit pointless for her to really care about her camscore since she doesn't cater her MFC hustle to really build many tip incentives outside of the usual tip menu stuff.

 

[Lorelei]

It seems a little hard for her to attract new customers on MFC because she's constantly cutting her feed throughout the night to go do privates on other sites. Or if it seems slow she cuts it, but still works on the others.

Throughout the last few months from when I was spending a lot more, and others too, she was in the 6k range. But she took a little break around January and is now around 4k. During that time and even now, there hasn't been any change in her regulars. It's the same few dudes who spend on her every month with virtually no change since as far as I can remember. No new faces. Only the same members varying their spending to make her rise if they're spending lots, or fall if they spend less.

So that's the dangers of split-camming. Yes, you have the potential to increase your profits. But if you take privates from other sites where you earn less per minute or less payout per token than mfc, then it almost seems like a circle that won't break. And then if she leaves other sites open and dudes hear tip noises in the middle of that pvt, then the member can potentially leave and just not come back since he' supposed to be paying for 1:1 private, but you're still getting tips.

I can't say any of this to her and I don't. It's her business and she'll do what she wants. But with this type of business-model, she's never going to be a super high camscore model. And I think it's a bit pointless for her to really care about her camscore since she doesn't cater her MFC hustle to really build many tip incentives outside of the usual tip menu stuff.

Please forgive me, I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative about this. It just seems that you're kind of trying to justify paying her directly and getting more bang for your buck (aka more time in private).

Ultimately, all of this (as you've already stated) is her business. You don't really get a say in this. I know it feels weird to you that you could get more time for the same expense on your end, and she could get more money from it so why on earth wouldn't she want to?—but really, there's no good reason to be turning these mental gymnastics.

 

[deblackivory]

It sound like something you'd need to negotiate with her but how she wish to work is up to her. If it work then it work for her as long as she's happy with what she's doing.

Me personally?
I'd take tokens. Less risk of people somehow taking it back and less hassle of a client feeling entitled to have something outside of cam. That's just me though. I've never had to handle that large pay from a client online and I'd rather not deal with that.
Yes, the money is nice but camscore would go a long way for me. The higher the score, the more chance I can draw in the viewers which would increase the income instead of depending on one thing.

 

[Tilly]

I think one of the nicest things about getting paid in tokens is that it's almost guaranteed. I've never had chargebacks on MFC. And Skype vs privates on cam sites have a few benefits for the models: 1) Privacy and safety. Many people don't seem to realize how much info Skype reveals. 2) Privates are timed. When you run out of tokens, the show is over. I think it's rather awkward to say, "Hey, the time you paid for is up. We're having fun but I have to go now. Bye!"
For me personally, these are two reasons that I wouldn't prefer the cash vs tokens. I normally don't mind if it's for content purchases like videos, photosets, and especially custom videos or panties. Even just as a tip, I don't prefer one over the other. For skype/pvt time I think a lot of girls have their own qualms.

 

[Phoenix4987]

Please forgive me, I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative about this. It just seems that you're kind of trying to justify paying her directly and getting more bang for your buck (aka more time in private).

Ultimately, all of this (as you've already stated) is her business. You don't really get a say in this. I know it feels weird to you that you could get more time for the same expense on your end, and she could get more money from it so why on earth wouldn't she want to?—but really, there's no good reason to be turning these mental gymnastics.

Yeah, you're right. I think I try to understand her actions, hence the mental gymnastics. But I think in the end it does me more harm than good because it's just wasted thoughts that has no bearing on her decision (and likely I wouldn't understand because I'm not a model). And no way in hell would I argue with her about it. In the end, it's the same size hole in my pocket and doesn't make a difference to me, but I do know it makes a difference to her. And she'll choose what's best for her and I will of course graciously accept she decides. I just wanted to be thoughtful and at least give her the option of a wire transfer. But anyways.

I think one of the nicest things about getting paid in tokens is that it's almost guaranteed. I've never had chargebacks on MFC. And Skype vs privates on cam sites have a few benefits for the models: 1) Privacy and safety. Many people don't seem to realize how much info Skype reveals. 2) Privates are timed. When you run out of tokens, the show is over. I think it's rather awkward to say, "Hey, the time you paid for is up. We're having fun but I have to go now. Bye!"
For me personally, these are two reasons that I wouldn't prefer the cash vs tokens. I normally don't mind if it's for content purchases like videos, photosets, and especially custom videos or panties. Even just as a tip, I don't prefer one over the other. For skype/pvt time I think a lot of girls have their own qualms.

Yes it's one of things that has a huge grey area and is definitely a case-by-case basis. It is interesting to see the different points of view as it does help shine some light for me and my understanding. Last skype we had I was actually the one monitoring the time maybe more closely than her haha. When it got to the time limit, everything was over anyway, and I said thank you very much. Had a smoke, came back, left a tip on MFC for a little extra appreciation.

 

[fandango]

I find this fascinating, that models value tokens twice as much as dollars. I'm waiting for MFC to start selling camscore booster kits. 100 camscore for $200 or something.

It makes perfect sense. It's like investing in any other sort of business. You can take quick and easy cash now, or less now but improve your placement and make more in the future. I'm not a model but if I was I would want the tokens every time.

 

[Picnic]

It would depend on the month, but I would still be most likely to go with tokens over anything else.

 

[AmberCutie]

I find this fascinating, that models value tokens twice as much as dollars.

In the end, camscore isn't what pays your bills or what you go out shopping with.

May be a little bit of a stretch, but in the very basic sense, it's like this old adage:


Sounds like a lot of us prefer learning how to fish to benefit our future.

 

[Guy]

Yo

I think one of the nicest things about getting paid in tokens is that it's almost guaranteed. I've never had chargebacks on MFC. And Skype vs privates on cam sites have a few benefits for the models: 1) Privacy and safety. Many people don't seem to realize how much info Skype reveals. 2) Privates are timed. When you run out of tokens, the show is over. I think it's rather awkward to say, "Hey, the time you paid for is up. We're having fun but I have to go now. Bye!"
For me personally, these are two reasons that I wouldn't prefer the cash vs tokens. I normally don't mind if it's for content purchases like videos, photosets, and especially custom videos or panties. Even just as a tip, I don't prefer one over the other. For skype/pvt time I think a lot of girls have their own qualms.

Even with tokens you can still get a chargeback on MFC. I think @Songbird_Shelly said she got a chargeback on MFC.

 

[yummybrownfox]

Yo

Even with tokens you can still get a chargeback on MFC. I think @Songbird_Shelly said she got a chargeback on MFC.

Yup, got a 1,000-token chargeback on MFC years ago. The person who'd spent that much on me...I remember I'd sent him photos and/or videos (can't remember if they were custom...if so, that sucks even more since customs are time-consuming and more of an inconvenience).

Not sure if it was a stolen credit card or what. I believe the person's screen name had the word "best" in it.

But I still agree with Tilly. With getting paid in tokens on MFC, it's almost guaranteed that you're good as far as getting that money in your pocket. Chargebacks are rare on MFC. Now on ImLive (They don't do cb's on there anymore, supposedly), I used to constantly hear about top models getting chargebacks every pay period, and they were often with members who had a bunch of random-ass numbers in their screen name. Models used to go on the ImLive forum and vent about how much chargebacks they got last pay period.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Sounds like a lot of us prefer learning how to fish to benefit our future.

But is that really what is happening? It seems to me the better analogy is paying to get on a fishing boat, with a slightly better captain for 60 days, in hopes that you catch more fish.

Let's run some numbers

Imagine you are a camgirl who has earned 100,000 tokens over the last 60 days, you cam 3 days a week for fours hours at a time, so you've spent a total of 100 hours on cam in the last 60 days.

Your tokens/hour is 1000, this equates to a camscore of between 2000-2500. Let's say 2500. If you suddenly got another 10,000 tokens that would bump your camscore up 10% to 2750.

Right now, on MFC, the difference between a model with a camscore 2496 and one with 2742 is exactly 7 positions or about 1/2 a row. Assuming the model ends up working another 100 hours in 25 sessions in the next 60 days, the model would need to make additional 400 tokens = $20/per session in order to break even. Could that happen? sure is there a guarantee absolutely not. The problem I think is the token boost disappears after 60 days. Now sure it is possible that extra 6 or 7 spots was the difference between the big whale noticing you or not and he could shoot you up to the top models ranks, but I think that's relatively rare occurrence.

There are times when taking the tokens almost certainly make sense. E.g. if the model had only earned say 20,000 tokens and cammed 50 hours, then the extra 10,000 tokens is going move her camscore from ~1000 to ~1500 that's big jump and would result in a much higher visibility.

There are also times it makes no sense image the model had earned 200K tokens and had 5,000 camscore and is planning on taking a month vacation in the next couple months. The camscore boost only moves her up one spot. She'd almost certainly be financially better off taking the extra $500 and enjoying her vacation more.

I think before automatically choosing tokens, models should evaluate how big a camscore jump you would get and how much a placement difference it makes.

 

[Lorelei]

I think the other thing that is being forgotten (or unsaid) here is the concept of perceived value. A girl with a higher camscore and a higher monthly Miss MFC rank likely seems more established, successful, and generally wanted by the consumer market. Having "made it" means a lot, both to established tippers (they helped get you there), new tippers (they think you must be special because you are there), and even perhaps to the model community / adult industry as a whole (they know who you are and you get more exposure / business opportunities as a result).

Maybe some folks don't want to admit that they're susceptible to perceived value, but they likely are to some degree.

So there's another reason to stick to tokens.

 

[Mira_xo]

I'd probably answer this question differently depending on my mood that day :haha

It sounds like if your model is triple camming, she is probably not super into rank and casmcore but rather raw dollars earned, for your situation maybe you can try to offer her the money directly (Never PayPal though, just FYI).

For me, it would depend. I would much rather have 100 tokens contributing to my countdown, rank, camscore, and moral support than $10. But if the amount were very large, say $100,000 or 1 million tokens, I think I'd take the former, just because it would go so much further in my life than the notoriety of making 1 mil tokens (at this point camscore is negligent, because if I was being considered to be tipped that much I'd be top row anyway.)

 

[Phoenix4987]

I'd probably answer this question differently depending on my mood that day :haha

It sounds like if your model is triple camming, she is probably not super into rank and casmcore but rather raw dollars earned, for your situation maybe you can try to offer her the money directly (Never PayPal though, just FYI).

Nah never paypal, I've sent her western union plenty of times no problem. Maybe something in the air of ~5,000 to date. And we have met in person as well. So, there's not really any issue or concern of whether I'm going to chargeback or have access to personal information I haven't had for some time.


This is my thinking as well, that she isn't focused on her camscore. She notices when it increases or drops, but she never caters her MFC hustle to bring incentives to tip. No games. No public goals. Just the usual topic every night and she only puts a topic on MFC, not the other sites. A little off-topic, but it is a little frustrating as a member when you want someone to succeed but the person on the other end hasn't figured it out. Or they've just become lazy and feel entitled to my spending vs having to actually "work" for it. But that's another topic for another day.

 

[Tilly]

Yo

Even with tokens you can still get a chargeback on MFC. I think @Songbird_Shelly said she got a chargeback on MFC.

I know it can happen, but fortunately in my time spent on MFC I have not encountered the problem.

 

[EspiKvlt]

I'd definitely take the tokens, for all the reasons people have said (especially the camscore boost).

 

[AudriTwo]

If you found me on a platform and use their services to communicate with me, then you will pay with their payment processor. If you contact me offsite, you will use my payment processor. Since I don't trust anyone, you will use a payment processor that fights charge backs for me. None of this giftcard bullshit. I have valued customers, not trusted customers. Been burnt by a reg before because I trusted him. NEVER AGAIN!!!!!

Reasons: Bandwidth doesn't grow on trees, and I want to make sure the site and affiliates get their fair share, since it was probably their marketing that brought you to me. And of course the placement/camscore boost. Helps me out more long term.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

It depends on my situation. Right now I am in a situation where I don't cam enough for my camscore to budge. It doesn't matter if I make 6k or 1k an hour, it's been stuck for the past 3 years since I stopped camming regularly (besides the regular changes on the site). So having a camscore boost doesn't mean much to me. And I'm in a situation where I'm usually too ill to work, so the extra $500 would be very useful. But I would have to trust that member with my life. Which is a lot of trust to give. One that I probably would trust my closest regulars with, but it's never come up and why take the risk? There aren't many ways to directly transfer into an account, with someone's name you will then have access to all sorts of details about the persons life. It's quite a big boundary to cross. So I probably wouldn't accept it for a payment, but I might accept it if a friend said they wanted to help me out financially. Though being British the exchange rate is amazing for me right now. For 20k tokens I get £200-£300 more than I would have a couple of years ago, so in comparison if an American buys tokens using dollars it's like I nearly get the full amount spent but MFC still gets their cut.