CamGirls: The Movie and the Drama

[HiGirlsRHot]

I don't understand why it is okay to tell another person how to act. Nobody should be pressured into being an advocate for any cause. It is okay to feel like consent isn't all that important to you. We are not all equal. If Ginger thought it wasn't a big issue to her, then that should be it. Nobody should question her decision to NOT get involved in it. It is hypocritical to ask other camgirls to be advocates of "the industry" (code word for your own problems) and with the same breath call out another girl for doing what she thinks is best for herself. Ginger's body is Ginger's and nobody can tell her how she is supposed to feel about it or about what happened to another person. It is immature and childish to act this way not to mention cultish. Nobody is responsible for your problems or for fixing your problems. Put your big girl boots on. When we start policing each other instead of going to the source of the problem they win.

It's because Jenny considered Ginger a friend and friends stick up for each other. It isn't really complicated. Ginger has been doing professional porn for a while, AFAIK this was Jenny's first shot. It seems that Ginger introduced Jenny into the situation. Hiring a lawyer to sue is generally the last step in problem resolution. I think the way Ginger should have handled it is the way Bailey Rayne did in her episode of Hot Girls Wanted Netflix series. Bailey was sticking up for the girls over the production company.

Hiring a lawyer to sue is generally the last step in problem resolution. Not mention the dispute isn't about money and convincing a jury that she was harmed because the sex got too rough in a BGG scene in a company know for hardcore scenes is going to be really tough. Jenny is lucky in that she has more than 100K twitter followers, some of us who could potentially purchasers of the movie.

 

[MDouble00]

Not really knowing either model more than seeing them on cam a few times. I have definitely come across many tweets, articles and such featuring Ginger in away that I would think for no other reason then how the information is being presented that she does appear to be a leader/advocate/crusader whatever adjective you want to use for the sex work industry. I even saw a tweet from a model that I follow that Ginger is on a board with Advocacy in the title. So while I can see how the event in question may not have necessarily affected Ginger in the same way. I can see why Jenny expected a different reaction/response from her.

 

[ElaySmith]

Ginger has been doing professional porn for a while, AFAIK this was Jenny's first shot. It seems that Ginger introduced Jenny into the situation.

Maybe I am wrong but I thought Ginger had been talking about doing pro porn, but I thought this was her first actual scene. And as far as GB introducing JB to pro porn is irrelevant. You don't do pro porn bc somebody else wants you to. Thats a long hard decision that one has to make for themselves and if she did it bc of GB then she did it for the wrong reasons.

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

I don't understand why it is okay to tell another person how to act. Nobody should be pressured into being an advocate for any cause. It is okay to feel like consent isn't all that important to you. We are not all equal. If Ginger thought it wasn't a big issue to her, then that should be it. Nobody should question her decision to NOT get involved in it. It is hypocritical to ask other camgirls to be advocates of "the industry" (code word for your own problems) and with the same breath call out another girl for doing what she thinks is best for herself. Ginger's body is Ginger's and nobody can tell her how she is supposed to feel about it or about what happened to another person. It is immature and childish to act this way not to mention cultish. Nobody is responsible for your problems or for fixing your problems. Put your big girl boots on. When we start policing each other instead of going to the source of the problem they win.

Edit: also, let's talk about how, even in the aftermath of this so-called traumatic event, Jenny STILL has the movie promo as a banner for her twitter account. I will be over here waiting for her explanation.

I disagree, I think we all are equals and that we are all responsible for each others well being. If we see someone get treated poorly we need to speak up about it and point out that it is not OK, if every one just puts their head in the sand and just do what is best for themselves we won't have any social progress and we will loose our own human dignity. We need to help each other out as best as we can when there is a problem and try to make the world a better place for all of us. Shrugging our shoulders and saying that is just they way it is will not bring about any change in the future.

Another thing I find problematic about this is she is working in the porn industry, nobody should be assaulted or disrespected but let's put it this way... dogs are not supposed to bite their owners but if I really really don't want to get bitten then I should probably not get a dog. Because it is always a possibility that it might happen. And if it does then you will be responsible. The porn industry is notorious for this in part because I guess some people do take liberties and are sleazeballs, but also because they are working with their bodies and with sex. If a couple who is in love can struggle for a while to find their boundaries in bed, imagine strangers who are fucking for the first time. There is bound to be some blurring of the lines. Which is why I think Ginger's position is much more mature. She understands the nature of the industry she is working in and is willing to be flexible and understanding when working on a set. If I wanted to hire someone I would hire Ginger and would royally pass on Jenny simply because of how this issue was handled by both of them. And I am not saying to swallow it up if something like this happens, but if you are mature you go to an attorney, not to twitter. It can feel like she is using this for attention.

The difference between people in love finding their boundaries and two strangers on a porn set is that the strangers on the porn set are supposed to be professionals and there should at least be someone like a director on set that can show them the ropes and tell them what to do and not to do. In other parts of entertainment where improvisation goes on you set boundaries beforehand and you respect them, I don't understand why it should not be possible to do so with pornography, there shouldn't have to be any room for blurred lines in this situation.

If you have a dog that bites you, you have either messed up training it or there is something wrong with the dog. My grandmother told me a story about my great grandfather who was a farmer, he had a hunting dog. According to grandma it was a mean dog but it was always loyal to my great grand father and had never even so much as snapped at him, but one day when the dog bit him. My great grandfather got his rifle and a shovel, then the dog got a brisk walk around to behind the barn and there with a bang ended the life of the only dog that ever bit him. I don't know what the moral of the story is supposed to be, perhaps it is don't expect bad things to happen because then you will wear yourself out by having to carry a shovel and a rifle around needlessly for years, or perhaps there isn't one it is just something that happened.

 

[JickyJuly]

I don't understand why it is okay to tell another person how to act. Nobody should be pressured into being an advocate for any cause. It is okay to feel like consent isn't all that important to you. We are not all equal. If Ginger thought it wasn't a big issue to her, then that should be it. Nobody should question her decision to NOT get involved in it. It is hypocritical to ask other camgirls to be advocates of "the industry" (code word for your own problems) and with the same breath call out another girl for doing what she thinks is best for herself. Ginger's body is Ginger's and nobody can tell her how she is supposed to feel about it or about what happened to another person. It is immature and childish to act this way not to mention cultish. Nobody is responsible for your problems or for fixing your problems. Put your big girl boots on. When we start policing each other instead of going to the source of the problem they win.

Edit: also, let's talk about how, even in the aftermath of this so-called traumatic event, Jenny STILL has the movie promo as a banner for her twitter account. I will be over here waiting for her explanation.

I don't understand why it is okay to tell another person how to act. Nobody should be pressured into being an advocate for any cause. It is okay to feel like consent isn't all that important to you. We are not all equal. If Ginger thought it wasn't a big issue to her, then that should be it. Nobody should question her decision to NOT get involved in it. It is hypocritical to ask other camgirls to be advocates of "the industry" (code word for your own problems) and with the same breath call out another girl for doing what she thinks is best for herself. Ginger's body is Ginger's and nobody can tell her how she is supposed to feel about it or about what happened to another person. It is immature and childish to act this way not to mention cultish. Nobody is responsible for your problems or for fixing your problems. Put your big girl boots on. When we start policing each other instead of going to the source of the problem they win.

Edit: also, let's talk about how, even in the aftermath of this so-called traumatic event, Jenny STILL has the movie promo as a banner for her twitter account. I will be over here waiting for her explanation.

If Ginger had just skipped speaking or only state d her own case, what you're saying would make sense to me. However, Ginger crossed into judging the way JB felt and reacted. Then, went on to defend EA and a few dudes. She entered the situation and picked a side that made plenty of what she usually puts out there look vapid and hypocritical likely in order to further her career. You can throw other people under the bus. You can put your career before others, but if you're flying the sjw flag in everyone's faces all day long, they're going to call you out when you do it.

 

[Mara_Jayne]

The biggest issue here seems to be so many people are just saying "that's the way professional porn is."

You see trash on the sidewalk and leave it cause why should you pick it up? Someone else will just throw down more right. If everyone thought that way then we'd be wading through trash and there would be no laws in place to steer people from littering in the first place.

So many sleazy men seem to be in porn and high up there because there is no one stopping them because "that's just how porn is."

We can't just shut down the people who are actually trying to speak out about the abuse by telling them it's their own fault for trusting those around them, those who know of their boundaries because they are in a damn contract and should have partial respinsibility to voice said bounderies to everyone in a particular scene just because "that's the way porn is"

Yeah the way porn is done is never going to change. Why would it when every person who is abused is told to keep quiet because they chose to be in porn and they need to just deal with it.

That way of thinking is so backwards but so many people follow that rule because they are simply looking out for only theirself. I'm not saying I haven't done is myself, I'm not perfect, but I do think if we want change then we need to speak up about it. If someone doesn't care or sees no need for change then that is fine. We can't force others to do things they don't want to or feel or view things the way you want them.

If Ginger felt she was not violated in the same way Jenny was then that is fine but she eccetually threw her own friend under the bus with down playing the whole situation. She didn't just say her side, she stated that Jenny is basically over reacting which is very much so victim blaiming. We can't tell ginger how to react or feel but we can't turn around and do the same to Jenny. That there makes no sense at all to me.

 

[AmberCutie]

I can see why Jenny expected a different reaction/response from her.

If I was with someone I thought was a friend and peer in the situation, I'd also have been upset if they had pushed my personal feelings and reaction aside for appearances sake.

I'm not on one side or the other on the actual issue, but I can see why JB is upset.

 

[Mila_]

If Ginger had just skipped speaking or only state d her own case, what you're saying would make sense to me. However, Ginger crossed into judging the way JB felt and reacted. Then, went on to defend EA and a few dudes. She entered the situation and picked a side that made plenty of what she usually puts out there look vapid and hypocritical likely in order to further her career. You can throw other people under the bus. You can put your career before others, but if you're flying the sjw flag in everyone's faces all day long, they're going to call you out when you do it.

Perhaps there is more to the story than what I found at a first glance. Did Ginger say anything in public about this before the thread where she explains the situation that was linked on this thread? If yes it would be cool to link that too so the people reading here have a better picture of the situation. If not then I wouldn’t call what she said “throwing JB under the bus” she simply stated that she didn’t know JB didn’t want to do a hardcore scene and that she didn’t think what happened with the director was ill intentioned. Saying she doesn’t feel this way but is just doing it for appearances sake is assuming too much. I know JB said Ginger told her she wanted to write a book about it when se got famous, and maybe she did, but either way nobody should judge Ginger for not wanting to get involved in something that could ruin her career especially if she is saying that JB made up many of her claims. None of us were there to know exactly what happened and we depend on the word of 2 people who say 2 different things. They both have things to win/lose here so we should maybe consider being less judgmental until the facts surface

 

[Useful-Title]

I know JB said Ginger told her she wanted to write a book about it when se got famous, and maybe she did, but either way nobody should judge Ginger for not wanting to get involved in something that could ruin her career especially if she is saying that JB made up many of her claims.

If Ginger didn’t believe Jenny’s claims, then why did she take the pictures of Manuel Ferrera’s bite marks on Jenny?
I could be wrong but I thought Jenny said that it was Ginger who took those pictures for her.
If that is so, wouldn’t you believe that your “friend” who is helping you document how you were injured in this event would support you when you wanted to bring this to light?
I don’t know Jenny or Ginger, and this whole situation is just a great morass of moral ambiguities. Just seems like no one is going to come out of this the better for it, no matter how it ends up.

 

[JickyJuly]

They both have things to win/lose here so we should maybe consider being less judgmental until the facts surface

They do, I'm sure. My stance is that one of the things Ginger should lose now is her high horse stance as an advocate because she did blame and shame Jenny. When she agreed that her own consent was violated, she validated what JB said happened. Then, she went on to say "Did I feel the need share it publicly? No.". At worst, that shames JB for speaking out publicly. At best, Ginger chose not to advocate for the safer practices she goes on about when faced with the chance. You don't mess with Twitter too much. You might not be familiar with Ginger's. You could poke through it, but she tweets a lot. (Confession, I'm not up to date on her. I unfollowed after I read her remarks regarding this whole thing, actually.) She made it seem like safety and consent for sex workers is important to her. If I were JB, that might make me feel safer going into a venture with the girl. If sex worker rights was just something she'd worked into her cam persona and not something she meant, she should be upfront about that with women she works with at the very least.

 

[Mila_]

If Ginger didn’t believe Jenny’s claims, then why did she take the pictures of Manuel Ferrera’s bite marks on Jenny?
I could be wrong but I thought Jenny said that it was Ginger who took those pictures for her.
If that is so, wouldn’t you believe that your “friend” who is helping you document how you were injured in this event would support you when you wanted to bring this to light?
I don’t know Jenny or Ginger, and this whole situation is just a great morass of moral ambiguities. Just seems like no one is going to come out of this the better for it, no matter how it ends up.

Jenny said Ginger took the pictures, and Ginger said she wasn't aware that Jenny had any problems with the scene apart from the squirt situation:



So clearly one of them is not telling the truth.

If Ginger did take the photos, that still doesn't mean she has to backup everything that Jenny says. If all that Jenny had said was that she was hurt during the shoot because he bit her, that is one thing, but the accusation is a lot more serious than that. Ginger said there were lies in Jenny's statements too:



If Ginger disagrees with Jenny's statements that they were assaulted she shouldn't back up her story. If she feels that they were assaulted but coming forward would forever ruin her career, it is her right to remain silent. Nobody has to sacrifice themselves on the altar of any cause and demanding they do is selfish and immature. The right way to handle it would be for Jenny to go to an attorney. If she did tell the crew she was NOT okay with shooting a hardcore scene and everything that it involves then she has a copy of the consent form checklist to back it up. It is as simple as getting a lawyer.

In the same manner that Ginger has something to lose if she backs up Jenny's story, Jenny gains nothing if she handles this behind closed doors. She will spend money and time and maybe she would get a settlement from the producer and maybe not. It would depend on what she can prove and maybe the scope of the outrage she can summon on twitter, which I guess is why she is so upset at Ginger.

So Jenny has something to gain by going public with the story, both in terms of attention/fame and in terms of money if she is planning on suing the producer. In this scenario she could have a motive to embellish the story for publicity gain which in my opinion would be worse than Ginger remaining silent to protect her future career. Because in the case of Jenny she could ruin the lives of others by doing this. I want to clarify: I am not saying Jenny is lying, I have no idea whether she is or not, I am just explaining why we should take what both of them say with a grain of salt and not just Ginger's claims. Ir could very well be that Ginger is lying to protect her career, or it could be that Jenny is lying to get retweets, they could both be lying, or they could both be telling the truth from their perspective, it is better to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I am simply trying to present Ginger's case because everyone is defending Jenny and I think it is best to try to see things from everyone's perspective.

They do, I'm sure. My stance is that one of the things Ginger should lose now is her high horse stance as an advocate because she did blame and shame Jenny. When she agreed that her own consent was violated, she validated what JB said happened. Then, she went on to say "Did I feel the need share it publicly? No.". At worst, that shames JB for speaking out publicly. At best, Ginger chose not to advocate for the safer practices she goes on about when faced with the chance. You don't mess with Twitter too much. You might not be familiar with Ginger's. You could poke through it, but she tweets a lot. (Confession, I'm not up to date on her. I unfollowed after I read her remarks regarding this whole thing, actually.) She made it seem like safety and consent for sex workers is important to her. If I were JB, that might make me feel safer going into a venture with the girl. If sex worker rights was just something she'd worked into her cam persona and not something she meant, she should be upfront about that with women she works with at the very least.

I read through Ginger's timeline and she does seem to feel strongly about sex worker's rights. I didn't see her blame and shame Jenny and I do not believe that by saying she personally didn't think the best route was to air the story on twitter is shaming Jenny. She was simply stating her opinion and the reason for her actions. No I have to ask... if you are vocal about say... Sex Work and stigma, does that mean you also need to adopt the full pack? I see people doing this all the time, denying others their right to pick and choose what fights they want to fight, and what ideas to believe in. I can be vegan and not be for legalizing marihuana, do you know what I mean?

 

[JickyJuly]

I'm having a hard time following your line of thought. What would JB have to gain by making any untrue claims? It was her project too. She's already given them her time and is contracted to promote the thing. It seems like it doesn't (professionally) help either to publicly speak negatively of the process. Probably isn't winning JB any porn friends. In this thread, it probably seems like Ginger is the one taking the beating. Via Twitter, though, JB's definitely gotten the brunt of it. Whenever anyone speaks negatively about camming or porn from the inside, there are always tons of girls waiting to jump on them. Some girls need to feel that we all love love love sexwork or that sexwork is amazing all of the time and to everyone in order to feel okay about being part of it. Hearing stories like JB's threatens that, and they want her to quiet down.

To me, that's the part that makes Jenny's statement look honest and Ginger's hypocritical. I agree that no one has to adopt the full pack with their beliefs. But, if someone goes on and on about a cause, they need to own it or face looking phony. Part of all of this hyper-aware, social justice stuff is understanding that things are systemic. We are all fallible and can make missteps. Failing to acknowledge our own wrongdoings and only pointing out those of others in the name of "advocacy" is self righteous trolling really. Calling oneself an advocate and treating another sex worker poorly when she feels violated (a violation that Ginger admitted) is pretty shocking. I don't know. I've followed Ginger long enough that I felt shocked by it.

But yeah, 2 sides. I'm not able to be very Switzerland on this one.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Good for Ginger for finally admitting she was wrong in her response to Jenny's complaints.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkppl

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Good for Ginger for finally admitting she was wrong in her response to Jenny's complaints.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkppl

Now if we just had a president who had the same integrity as porn stars.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Good for Ginger for finally admitting she was wrong in her response to Jenny's complaints.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqkppl

Now if we just had a president who had the same integrity as porn stars.

Reading it, I don't get the feeling there's compassion there. Just seems kinda "blah" and almost forced.

Being she's the "newly inducted APAC Chairperson", she's right in line with a long history of shitty Presidents and political figures and how they act.​

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Reading it, I don't get the feeling there's compassion there. Just seems kinda "blah" and almost forced.

Being she's the "newly inducted APAC Chairperson", she's right in line with a long history of shitty Presidents and political figures and how they act.

I agree to an extent. It could have been and should have been a stronger statement condemn Evil Angel. It is hard to say I fucked up and should have done more so I don't really fault her for thought.
But as Camgirl said on twitter just now, this shouldn't really devolve into a Jenny vs Ginger debate. At the heart of the problem is that lots of folks in adult entertainment (mostly but not exclusively men) are shitty human beings who do horrible things because they can get away with it.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

I agree to an extent. It could have been and should have been a stronger statement condemn Evil Angel. It is hard to say I fucked up and should have done more so I don't really fault her for thought.
But as Camgirl said on twitter just now, this shouldn't really devolve into a Jenny vs Ginger debate. At the heart of the problem is that lots of folks in adult entertainment (mostly but not exclusively men) are shitty human beings who do horrible things because they can get away with it.

I was reading it only as a statement from her regarding how she acted, and not a debate between the two. It felt to me like a CEO, President, etc. who were caught doing something that they shouldn't have been and the statement was released only as a way of appeasing the shareholders, citizens, etc.

Put into the context of Presidency, no one would believe it if it came from Trump. It lacks feeling, it lacks emotion. It just feels like she's making that statement simply because people are calling her out for the lack of compassion related to the position she holds.

 

[Mila_]

I'm having a hard time following your line of thought. What would JB have to gain by making any untrue claims? It was her project too. She's already given them her time and is contracted to promote the thing. It seems like it doesn't (professionally) help either to publicly speak negatively of the process. Probably isn't winning JB any porn friends. In this thread, it probably seems like Ginger is the one taking the beating. Via Twitter, though, JB's definitely gotten the brunt of it. Whenever anyone speaks negatively about camming or porn from the inside, there are always tons of girls waiting to jump on them. Some girls need to feel that we all love love love sexwork or that sexwork is amazing all of the time and to everyone in order to feel okay about being part of it. Hearing stories like JB's threatens that, and they want her to quiet down.

To me, that's the part that makes Jenny's statement look honest and Ginger's hypocritical. I agree that no one has to adopt the full pack with their beliefs. But, if someone goes on and on about a cause, they need to own it or face looking phony. Part of all of this hyper-aware, social justice stuff is understanding that things are systemic. We are all fallible and can make missteps. Failing to acknowledge our own wrongdoings and only pointing out those of others in the name of "advocacy" is self righteous trolling really. Calling oneself an advocate and treating another sex worker poorly when she feels violated (a violation that Ginger admitted) is pretty shocking. I don't know. I've followed Ginger long enough that I felt shocked by it.

But yeah, 2 sides. I'm not able to be very Switzerland on this one.

Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner Jicky, lately my schedule is swamped and I don't have much time to peruse ACF like I used to. People should mention me so I get the notification damnit!

Okay, on to the topic... why I think Jenny has things to gain with this? It is a case of simple math. Here I want you to understand that I do not know any of the girls personally and I have not followed their twatters as I don't have twatter. I know them nominally and as a lurker of cams. Meaning: I know who they are, I have been in their rooms a handful of times. I don't know much more beyond that. I am simply speaking of the chess board the way I see it from my analytical and detached perspective. I explain this so people don't think I have any horses on this race. So let's make this a list cause it's easier for me:

1) These are 2 notorious models meaning: award winning, top 20 girls. These models know how to use all the weapons at their disposal to maximize your exposure. We are not talking about newbies or about nondescript girls here. Jenny has been a fixture in top 100, frequent face in top 20 for years. She knows what she is doing.

2) On social media if nobody is talking about you, you are losing the game. The majority of models who invest time and effort in Twatter or Instacrap or Snatchat want to get exposure because it translates in new fans (supposedly). At first they posted fappable pics to get guys to retweet their content, but lately the game is not in getting pervs to retweet you but in getting camgirls to do it. Why? Simple.. because perv accounts tend to have 0 real followers. Guys create special accounts for their perving pleasures, they don't want to retweet a photo of their favorite camgirl and her buttplug on the account their mother follows. So getting retwatted by @9inchdick4u does nothing for you in terms of new followers. You know who does have tons of followers who might want to tip you? Other camgirls. So the game is getting other camgirls to retweet your shit so their followers find you.

3) How do you get other camgirls to retweet your shit? Flattery is good, cute pictures of cats seem to also make the list. But a sure way to make them retweet you and mention you and engage with your content is to give them something that will (1) stand out from the twitter fodder (2) appeals to their sense of social justice since most camgirls are INFP Bernie voters (3) confirm their bias.

4) We have seen so many instances of camgirls exaggerating situations or even straight up making up stuff just to get retweets. I remember this particular incident a couple of months ago at an airport as reported by a very shocked camgirl via 30 second video on twatter where she was ALMOST RAPED!! To me from her facial expressions it was obvious she was exploiting the situation for the hustle, it was at least 70% theatrics, but her video got like 3000 retweets. Does drama girl have a future in airport security business? No. She does have 1000 new followers though.

5) So, you see, you are right when you say Jenny is not making many friends in the adult porn business, but it doesn't seem like Jenny wants to pursue a career in porn. She seems to want to remain a camgirl, and what she is doing is confirming the camgirl bias that "camwork is so much safer and better and good than porn! look at me! i am not a porn actress! i am an entertainer! a therapist! a friend! a community manager! only with bewbs! See? this doesnt happen to me when i cam from my bedroom. me so smart." Camgirls everywhere love this shit, gobble it up and retweet it like crazy.

6) We live in a world where you can exact revenge via outrage. People are getting fired for having the wrong opinion, everyone is now judge first and foremost by the people. You can be condemned on twitter and the judge can absolve you after a fair trial and you will still be condemned like you were guilty. Jenny could get a settlement from Evil Angel if the size of the outrage is big enough.

This is what Jenny has to gain. And listen, I am not saying she is lying, once again, I have no idea what her motivation actually is, she could be telling the truth. What I am pointing out is she DOES have things to gain by going public with this.

 

[LilyPink]

Is it wrong that I want to see the resulting footage so I can know what it looks like when a model isn't into it so I can compare to other porn films so I can only watch ethical porn?

Maybe that's wrong because I probably shouldn't use someone else's discomfort in a self serving purpose. And probably the best thing to do in solidarity with the women involved is to boycott the footage completely.

Any other thoughts even tho I answered my own question?

 

[EspiKvlt]

Haylie made a great Youtube video about everything that happened and then Evil Angel gave her a copyright strike and she had to reupload it.

 

[Guy]

Haylie made a great Youtube video about everything that happened and then Evil Angel gave her a copyright strike and she had to reupload it.

Ginger's vid.

 

[EspiKvlt]

I just watched Ginger's video. It came up while I was looking for Haylie's.

I have no idea how to feel at this point. Obviously she handled everything very badly but she sounds genuinely disturbed and upset by everything going on and unless she's just acting, (which it doesn't look like she is) I'm having trouble feeling much anger towards her.

 

[Derek_Zoolander]

2) On social media if nobody is talking about you, you are losing the game. The majority of models who invest time and effort in Twatter or Instacrap or Snatchat want to get exposure because it translates in new fans (supposedly). At first they posted fappable pics to get guys to retweet their content, but lately the game is not in getting pervs to retweet you but in getting camgirls to do it. Why? Simple.. because perv accounts tend to have 0 real followers. Guys create special accounts for their perving pleasures, they don't want to retweet a photo of their favorite camgirl and her buttplug on the account their mother follows. So getting retwatted by @9inchdick4u does nothing for you in terms of new followers. You know who does have tons of followers who might want to tip you? Other camgirls. So the game is getting other camgirls to retweet your shit so their followers find you.

This is a very clever observation. I definitely do see a lot more Twitter drama between models these days. Depending on who you follow, at the time the Ginger/Jenny drama was blowing up, Kati3kat and ZiaFox were going at it and Alexis picked a fight with all sex workers.

I do think Ginger makes a very poor advocate and not because of this Jenny mess. The fact that she is so interested in getting her foot in the door for professional porn and how beholden she is to major industry players just means she won't be objective when it comes time to whistle blow. It's like getting someone who is a fan to be a watchdog. She won't be interested in blowing the lid on the industry if she sees something wrong. She'll want to quietly work within the system while protecting her future career.

I find some of Jenny's complaints quite silly. I know I'll get a lot of flack for saying this especially in the current #MeToo environment. However, she was working with professional porn which on a good day, won't pass the sexual harassment litmus test if it were a vanilla job. So consenting to do professional porn means she already consented to give up some of those protections. Has she seen the stuff in porn? Either women are being assaulted constantly on set and the entire industry should go down for good or women are consenting to be assaulted which calls into question their judgement.

 

[EspiKvlt]

So consenting to do professional porn means she already consented to give up some of those protections.

There is no situation in which working in a professional environment means you are giving up your rights to bodily autonomy.

Just no.

 

[JickyJuly]

2) On social media if nobody is talking about you, you are losing the game. The majority of models who invest time and effort in Twatter or Instacrap or Snatchat want to get exposure because it translates in new fans (supposedly). At first they posted fappable pics to get guys to retweet their content, but lately the game is not in getting pervs to retweet you but in getting camgirls to do it. Why? Simple.. because perv accounts tend to have 0 real followers. Guys create special accounts for their perving pleasures, they don't want to retweet a photo of their favorite camgirl and her buttplug on the account their mother follows. So getting retwatted by @9inchdick4u does nothing for you in terms of new followers. You know who does have tons of followers who might want to tip you? Other camgirls. So the game is getting other camgirls to retweet your shit so their followers find you.

3) How do you get other camgirls to retweet your shit? Flattery is good, cute pictures of cats seem to also make the list. But a sure way to make them retweet you and mention you and engage with your content is to give them something that will (1) stand out from the twitter fodder (2) appeals to their sense of social justice since most camgirls are INFP Bernie voters (3) confirm their bias.

I get that, but I just don't think Twitter requires that much work. I tweet about stupid things I do, stuff my trouble maker says, marriage and throw some clips links in once in a while. Boom. Tons of followers. Part of getting followers is definitely getting camgirls to retweet you. Maybe if girls couldn't see the drama without following one another, drama would be beneficial. I unfollow it most of the time (unless I really like the person stirring the pot). It's easy enough to go take a peek without having to see the person's nonsense all of the time. Hehehe. Also a lot of cam viewers are not going to be left leaning. When I cammed, most of my spendier dudes were my opposite on that spectrum. And, rapey stuff is such an uncomfortable topic. Most of the girls who keep their money flowing with drama pick topics that make them feel superior (see: Kickaz, pumpkinspice, all of domme Twitter) or start shit with someone who is not on their same financial level, has a ton more followers etc. I'd guess Jenny is higher up the pay scale than Ginger, and she definitely has a bigger following. Ginger wouldn't be the best target for that. I guess a settlement from Evil Angel might be great, but that could be done quietly. It might be more likely to happen if done quietly because then Evil Angel could buy the quiet.

IDK. I can't imagine working that hard to get a social media following. It doesn't make someone that much money. Of course, I'm probably the laziest and least competitive person on this forum. I might just not relate to the idea of thinking before I Tweet.

I do think Ginger makes a very poor advocate and not because of this Jenny mess. The fact that she is so interested in getting her foot in the door for professional porn and how beholden she is to major industry players just means she won't be objective when it comes time to whistle blow. It's like getting someone who is a fan to be a watchdog. She won't be interested in blowing the lid on the industry if she sees something wrong. She'll want to quietly work within the system while protecting her future career.

This was my feeling too. I understand getting your money, but doing so under the guise of advocacy should come with responsibility. If I'd never followed Ginger or made note of her consistent comments on sex work, her response wouldn't have meant anything. I'd have rolled my eyes and not said a peep about it.

 

[JickyJuly]

So consenting to do professional porn means she already consented to give up some of those protections. Has she seen the stuff in porn? Either women are being assaulted constantly on set and the entire industry should go down for good or women are consenting to be assaulted which calls into question their judgement.

Totally disagree.
Hate what you're saying here.
But, I feel like Ginger's response (in saying that consent was violated but that she didn't feel the need to mention anything publicly) was a lower key way of implying the same thing.
Can I ask you, at the risk of taking the thread off course, how you can consume porn and feel this way about it?

 

[Derek_Zoolander]

Totally disagree.
Hate what you're saying here.
But, I feel like Ginger's response (in saying that consent was violated but that she didn't feel the need to mention anything publicly) was a lower key way of implying the same thing.
Can I ask you, at the risk of taking the thread off course, how you can consume porn and feel this way about it?

My point was, has Jenny done any research into what professional porn looks like? I'm not saying she agreed to be assaulted by doing porn. I saw the movie and what happened is really tame compared to what you typically see in porn these days. Maybe she was just unprepared or naive. If she had watched any deal of porn and tried to imagine what it was like to shoot these things, she wouldn't have wanted to get into professional porn.

This is what I meant by the entire industry should go down if Jenny felt like her experience is universal. Porn actresses are either being assaulted or agreeing to be assaulted just shooting porn.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I get that, but I just don't think Twitter requires that much work. I tweet about stupid things I do, stuff my trouble maker says, marriage and throw some clips links in once in a while. Boom. Tons of followers. Part of getting followers is definitely getting camgirls to retweet you. Maybe if girls couldn't see the drama without following one another, drama would be beneficial. I unfollow it most of the time (unless I really like the person stirring the pot). It's easy enough to go take a peek without having to see the person's nonsense all of the time. Hehehe. Also a lot of cam viewers are not going to be left leaning. When I cammed, most of my spendier dudes were my opposite on that spectrum. And, rapey stuff is such an uncomfortable topic. Most of the girls who keep their money flowing with drama pick topics that make them feel superior (see: Kickaz, pumpkinspice, all of domme Twitter) or start shit with someone who is not on their same financial level, has a ton more followers etc. I'd guess Jenny is higher up the pay scale than Ginger, and she definitely has a bigger following. Ginger wouldn't be the best target for that. I guess a settlement from Evil Angel might be great, but that could be done quietly. It might be more likely to happen if done quietly because then Evil Angel could buy the quiet.

Definitely easier ways of building followers. Really has anyone seen a better way than saying nice or funny things about your fellow camgirls, and along with posting nudes? Plus if this was deliberate on Jenny's part I don't think it's been very effective. Jenny had at least 110K followers when this started, she has 121K now which has changed in the last few days since I start paying attention to it.

I'm pretty sure Occam Razor applies here, Jenny felt abused by what happened, she expected Ginger to her support her, Ginger didn't and Jenny posted.

 

[JickyJuly]

My point was, has Jenny done any research into what professional porn looks like? I'm not saying she agreed to be assaulted by doing porn. I saw the movie and what happened is really tame compared to what you typically see in porn these days. Maybe she was just unprepared or naive. If she had watched any deal of porn and tried to imagine what it was like to shoot these things, she wouldn't have wanted to get into professional porn.

This is what I meant by the entire industry should go down if Jenny felt like her experience is universal. Porn actresses are either being assaulted or agreeing to be assaulted just shooting porn.

If you believe that porn cannot exist without assault, how do you consume porn? Do you believe the presence of a camera creates the assault or the transfer of funds? Do you believe porn actors are equally assaulted or agreeing to assault?

 

[Guy]

If you believe that porn cannot exist without assault, how do you consume porn? Do you believe the presence of a camera creates the assault or the transfer of funds? Do you believe porn actors are equally assaulted or agreeing to assault?

I think that It depends on the porn studio. Evil Angel just happens to be one of the bad ones.