Cam Model Recognition Site - Being Developed

[ramblin]

I may be wrong here, but I don't think either of you are in the business of selling non-nude concept modeling photos to websites though?

That would be the dude walking up to me in the bar and saying he heard I'm an excellent chef. Wouldn't go far, but I might direct him to someone that actually was a chef if he seemed like a decent dude.

My Scenario A was dependent on dude having done his research and knowing that I would truly be a fit for his project. I think I wasn't clear enough about that.

 

[GingerWifey]

-There is a plan, but if everything was typed out detail-by-detail it would take up massive amounts of space, which I stated from the get-go. Just SEO documentation alone is usually a minimum 3-4 pages for a good website.

I think this is part of the problem. There is so much confusion which I think is partly due to you not actually summarising - in a simple statement - what your website's purpose is. So many people have asked you to explain what your vision is (not how many viewers you dream about) and yet all you seem to do if respond to their criticisms in a very nit-picky way rather than stating 'This is what I want to do: BAM'. It's frustrating and confusing.

To me it sounds like you want to be able to promote lesser known cam girls on this website, where they can win $100+ for something (what exactly qualifies them to be entered/to win said money?) after being judged by a panel (of who?). I just don't really understand how this can work. A contest between cam girls judged by user experience just seems ludicrous to me. Every member of a camsite will take away a different experience after spending time in a model's chatroom and I really don't think that is something you can even begin to compare fairly.

I think having a 'panel' of people to pick a winner based on user experience is bizarre - what if panel members have never been in said girl's room? How can they choose her over another girl who has equally outstanding submissions? I just don't think this kind of contest is needed in this industry.

You talk about wanting to help those with lower camscores etc. I feel this will just cause stress for girls - they are being picked on the experience they give their members. What if they don't win or even make the 'final round'? Do they start to question their cam persona/style and try to make changes which were not necessary? I don't think it will be as uplifting for the girls as you think it will.

I urge you to consider making a promotional twitter/review blog or something like that which encourages submissions (without contest element). Or just continue to use ACF/other forums where girls can promote themselves without being judged by a panel influenced purely by member submissions... and then tip that $100 to a cam girl you like and want to support.

Apologies in advance if rambly -- I'm feeling like poop this morning and have not proofread.

 

[KOTJ74]

The biggest joke in this entire thread is that your goal is 14,000,000 people visiting this site? Even your 2% number is outrageously high for a site like this. Is there really that much of a demand for a site like this that would draw in 280,000-14 million people? Really don't see it. Yes the industry is large and has many people in it... but outside from the actual cam sites (chaturbate, myfreecams, streamate, etc), I don't think many users/models visit other sites about cam models... this site excluded

Again, something I said is being changed into something I didn't say, and this also shows you don't understand target marketing, but let me explain again. 14,000,000 isn't how many actually come to the site. It's how many hear about the site that have shown an interest in this particular area. 280,000 would be the minimum amount that would at least come to the site at least once. 14,000 is the site retention from the marketing. And FYI, 2 percent is actually low. Usually you negotiate a contract with the firm, which varies depending on the customer and how well they're able to negotiate. The marketing firms aren't dumb, so they'll cut you a deal off their original quote. They do this because they are, well, marketing professionals, and it's really not a lot of work for them. Their main draw is that they have the outreach and that's what you're buying into. Aside from that, you have to do a lot of the set up, or pay them to do it for you. Either way, they want your business and will compete for it.

Another thing to keep in mind that this is a contractual agreement, so the traffic numbers are guaranteed. What this means is that they HAVE TO, hit those numbers or they have to continue marketing for me. Some guarantee and measure retention in certain instances, but from my experience most don't. Let me give you a simple example just to drive this home.

Guaranteed outreach - 100
Guaranteed traffic - 5%

Now they're guaranteeing that they're going to go out and at least let 100 people know about what service, product etc... you are trying to market with set parameters. Let's say it's for "Bob's snail farm"

So out of that 100, at least 5 have to go and at least check out Bob and his snails. If not, they may have to go and tell 10, 20, 50, 100... more until 5 people actually want to go check out his snails.

Now on the flip-side, if 20 out of the hundred go check out his snails from the original run, then the contract is fulfilled. At that point, it's on me if I was able to impress those snail enthusiasts enough to buy Bob's snails or continue to visit him.

No one is trying to be mean to you -- they're trying to give you the feedback that you asked for. Best of luck in your endeavours.

Yes, people apparently have a stick up their butt (not all), and it's even carrying over to MFC, which I don't like. It' also makes me very uncomfortable going into some of the rooms now, so most of the time I don't bother. There are a few models I have visited from here though, and the ones who I have visited, I had a good time in their room. There are also a few I've been on the fence with, but decided it best not to visit them, but maybe some other day.

As far as feedback, I have no trouble with people sharing their thoughts. I just don't appreciate dog-piling, convolution, or people stating things as facts that are fabrications. Also, it's fine not to like an idea, or me for that matter, but there is a kind way of sharing that which is more advantageous to those who are on any side of an idea.

I understand this will always happen when people are hidden behind a monitor, but this one of the meanest and most unwelcoming forums I have ever visited. With that being said, there are some really super cool models in this forum, and I've enjoyed getting to know them. There are also some members that seem pretty cool as well.

Ramblin,

What I'm sharing isn't limited to ACF, as there are others in this community that know about it as well, and many are fine with it and like the idea. The problem is that when the naysayers mistreat people or don't know what they're talking about. I don't claim to know it all, but I at least give people a fair shake. If someone doesn't like an idea, that is fine. If people don't trust me, that is fine. However, people have been rude from the getty-up without taking the time to figure out the things you mentioned. Let me be very clear about this. I don't need permission to enter any space. However, it's nice when people are supportive or at least give a bit of a hoot. Would you rather I just go and build it based entirely on my own thoughts and ideas? Of course not. But I'm at least trying to collaborate and refine something, so the pieces of the puzzle fit better. This is not only fair to me, but it allows me to be fair to others if I choose to develop something.

I dunno about all that.. when dudes individually approach me about a project and I don't know them from adam I tend to be MORE suspicious of a scam than when someone pitches an idea in a public venue. Am I alone in this?

I agree with everything you said here. One of the rules I tend to live by is that if something has to be hidden by someone, then in most cases there is a problem with it or they wouldn't be trying to hide it. There are exceptions to this, because somethings are actually nobody else's business, but if it's a public project then it's good to at least establish a base and get others involved as well when possible.

 

[Anatevka]

Step 1: tip fedora

 

[MFCuser]

you keep saying that people are misrepresenting what the purpose/function of the site is. So sell me. As someone who is a frequent user and tipper on mfc, why would i visit your site? what do i get out of it?

 

[Zoomer]

You see, you think (collectively, or individually) people here have a "stick up their..." and that they're not nice - but that's how I viewed you and your response to a few points of feedback. People respond to how you're presenting yourself. If it's going badly, perhaps some self reflection rather than just label everyone else as being the reason?

So far you're more interested in "proving people are wrong or don't know how knowledgeable you are" rather than actually reading, comprehending, and responding appropriately. That's fine - just don't expect people to be blown away by your posts though; they may even take umbrage to your approach.

With my points - I know plenty around the topic. I get the distinct impression you're more marketing than developer - and have very little grasp of what constitutes a successful website; let alone how to get people back in. You never really responded to point 2 whatsoever... either you misunderstood my question, or just sidestepped it.

That's why I say good luck and look forward to seeing what you produce on the 1st of January - mainly out of curiosity as to what, exactly, it is for. I am fairly positive you don't really know much about websites though - if you do - any examples of your work? What your background is?

 

[KOTJ74]

I may be wrong here, but I don't think either of you are in the business of selling non-nude concept modeling photos to websites though?

That would be the dude walking up to me in the bar and saying he heard I'm an excellent chef. Wouldn't go far, but I might direct him to someone that actually was a chef if he seemed like a decent dude.

My Scenario A was dependent on dude having done his research and knowing that I would truly be a fit for his project. I think I wasn't clear enough about that.

Ramblin,

I buy a lot of concept work. It's my preference for branding rather than using stock photos or pre-generated icons, because it creates branding issues. If I buy concept work and protect it, the work is what I want to the standards I choose and that I am willing to pay for. Also, it helps me stand out against other brands. Sometimes stock photos can be very expensive depending on the licensing parameters and the artist. Now with concept work that is custom, a lot of times you can get a good deal on it because of competition and a lot of times artists/freelancers will want to take on your project anyway, just because they like the idea and can attach their name to it, or they're just getting into the game and need to establish themselves. Depending on the situation, I will sometimes allow a freelancer to share a minimized version of the master on their portfolio. This doesn't really hurt me because if someone tries to blow it up it's going to look terrible, and I can also get cut a better deal on their work. It's another one of those win-win situations. I do however have stock photo accounts, which I use more for attaching media to content as more of an illustration of what something is about.

As far as selling, yep...if I own something I can go out and sell it in most cases. There are some exceptions, but if it's done tastefully, I can take the $$$ and I don't have to share any of it. There are also markets for this type of thing, and it actually works because the person selling their work may really need the money, and the vultures like to take advantage of this since they know it belongs to them. This is also common with lazy students, because they can take someone's work that does it well, and then claim it as their own, and the person who sold it to them can't say squat about it. However, the person getting paid probably doesn't care anyway.

Gingerswifey,

I have done what you suggested numerous times. However, what I say keeps getting changed to something else and just becomes confusing. Also, what I said has nothing to do with cam score or popularity, but rather how others are impacted by a particular model. Overall, this thread reminds me of the old "Telephone" game (I think that's what it's called), where you start out with a phrase, then you continue to whisper it down a line of 50 people or so, and by the time it gets to the end, the phrase is completely different that what was originally said. Also, it's not a $100 chasing contest, but people keep going back to that for some reason. It was a minimum guaranteed contribution out of my own pocket, but wasn't limited to that either. Thanks for your response though.

 

[KOTJ74]

You see, you think (collectively, or individually) people here have a "stick up their..." and that they're not nice - but that's how I viewed you and your response to a few points of feedback. People respond to how you're presenting yourself. If it's going badly, perhaps some self reflection rather than just label everyone else as being the reason?

So far you're more interested in "proving people are wrong or don't know how knowledgeable you are" rather than actually reading, comprehending, and responding appropriately. That's fine - just don't expect people to be blown away by your posts though; they may even take umbrage to your approach.

With my points - I know plenty around the topic. I get the distinct impression you're more marketing than developer - and have very little grasp of what constitutes a successful website; let alone how to get people back in. You never really responded to point 2 whatsoever... either you misunderstood my question, or just sidestepped it.

That's why I say good luck and look forward to seeing what you produce on the 1st of January - mainly out of curiosity as to what, exactly, it is for. I am fairly positive you don't really know much about websites though - if you do - any examples of your work? What your background is?

I responded the way I did in most cases because I am a very direct person and don't like to pit-pat around something. Also, some of the feedback wasn't really feedback since it wasn't even applicable to this kind of thing. Just people wanting others to "agree" or give them a "smiley" because they joined the dogpile.

As far as your other points, you aren't even close. My intent was never bad and I had no interest in conflict with anyone. I just don't enjoy people trying to blow smoke up my butt when I know better. It may work on others, but has no appeal to me.

With marketing and developing, I know both. They go hand-and-hand in many cases. But overall, I think it's more of a scenario where you want to believe something because it suits your purpose or intent. Or maybe you're out to try to impress someone? I dunno really, but that's the "impression" I get from you since we're sharing.

And if you think I know nothing about successful websites, then you're off your rocker. Don't really care at this point though. As I said, I scrapped it. Not worth my time at this point. This doesn't mean I won't do something helpful to a subset of this community, but overall it has left a foul taste in my mouth.

Furthermore, there are people in this community that have seen my work and know my background. In fact, if you figure out my work, you'll most likely figure out my background as well. I don't see any reason to publicly share though, because I'll just end up with people on my sites that I don't really want on them, and I don't have any websites that are meant to be unfriendly, so I'm really not interested in dealing with the "randoms' who would take it on themselves to cause trouble in peaceful communities. It does happen.

 

[HoldItNow]

I like watching shows where people pitch their ideas to venture capitalists. Not because I think VC is a great way to grow a business but I always wait for the moment where someone with a half-formed idea makes the statement "The market is x size. All I need to do I capture a percentage of x and it will be a success". So I enjoyed that moment in the thread.

I get the premise of trying to "fix" some perceived inequality in the camming world but your process of creating a balance makes little sense. You say you have a wealth of experience but when asked by a model with a design background asks why you haven't made a mock-up you tried to turn it into a discussion about her font choice.

Most of these "I want to help models" pitches seem like they're coming from 2008 when most people were unfamiliar of how everything worked.

To me, it seems that you just want to know models and get a deeper level of interaction with them. Since having a contract, something you have stressed, with them over their pictures would require you to know their real names.

Models hear pitches all the time, financial and emotional, and your aghast reaction to some rather basic questions is going to raise red flags. When you pitch someone an idea with not even an outline to show them, don't reach for your fainting couch when they doubt your idea.

Although I do like these threads as strange ideas make for some entertainment.

 

[Amelia Liddell]

I responded the way I did in most cases because I am a very direct person and don't like to pit-pat around something. Also, some of the feedback wasn't really feedback since it wasn't even applicable to this kind of thing. Just people wanting others to "agree" or give them a "smiley" because they joined the dogpile.

you keep saying people are dogpiling on you. i don't think multiple people saying you're idea doesn't sound good or of any use to any camgirl is dogpiling. just multiple people giving you feedback, even if it is negative.

and also saying that people are posting negative feedback just to get an agree rating or smileys is pretty rude, people are just sharing their opinions (like you've asked) and many others agree so are rating the posts as such.

not to be harsh but if you don't like any of the responses you are getting why do you keep replying to every comment with suuuuper long posts instead of just being like "kay, bye" and letting this thread die? obviously no one thinks your idea is good and obviously you won't be swayed so just go do it or don't? idk seems like a waste of your time to me dude

 

[KOTJ74]

I like watching shows where people pitch their ideas to venture capitalists. Not because I think VC is a great way to grow a business but I always wait for the moment where someone with a half-formed idea makes the statement "The market is x size. All I need to do I capture a percentage of x and it will be a success". So I enjoyed that moment in the thread.

I get the premise of trying to "fix" some perceived inequality in the camming world but your process of creating a balance makes little sense. You say you have a wealth of experience but when asked by a model with a design background asks why you haven't made a mock-up you tried to turn it into a discussion about her font choice.

Most of these "I want to help models" pitches seem like they're coming from 2008 when most people were unfamiliar of how everything worked.

To me, it seems that you just want to know models and get a deeper level of interaction with them. Since having a contract, something you have stressed, with them over their pictures would require you to know their real names.

Models hear pitches all the time, financial and emotional, and your aghast reaction to some rather basic questions is going to raise red flags. When you pitch someone an idea with not even an outline to show them, don't reach for your fainting couch when they doubt your idea.

Although I do like these threads as strange ideas make for some entertainment.

This isn't a show, but I'm sure you'll get a few smiley faces for saying things that are irrelevant, since people like a good dogpile, and some might actually believe this nonsense.

Also, if you know anything about venture capitalism, then you should also know it's quite opposite than what you're suggesting. It's very much a numbers game and if you don't know this, then why the heck are you even spewing this crapola? Furthermore, again this is another case of someone talking out there butt, and changing something I said into something different. I never even said such and such is the market size, but what I did say was the part of the market that I would go after. Obviously, when you're dealing with millions of people, the marketing numbers are always increasing anyway, and I used lower limits. So again, stop making things up and spewing senseless garbage.

As far as the question about a mock-up, I did respond to it. However, there wouldn't be a "mock-up" at this point because it's too early in the game. If she's just designing personal sites, like the ones she's doing, then it's probably fine since they can be done rather quickly and she's most likely using her own materials, to include photos and whatever else. However, from a developers perspective, you need to establish a lot of other things first, to include resources. I've also stated numerous times that the photos would be determining factor in a lot of it as well. Again, more crap being spewed from someone who doesn't have a clue. And sharing about the fonts was more of a courtesy. As I said, she did a very good job with her site and covered the majority of the bases. I'm not knocking her one bit, and I think she did great work. If you don't believe me about the fonts though, go check out her site. Once you're there, check out her "Welcome to my website" module, and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about. It's not a dig on her, and it's probably something that she could fix within a few minutes if she cared to. And for that matter, I could even show peeps the difference with developers tools, and then maybe they would understand? Not going to do it though, because then it would just give people something else to cry about.

Again with the crap spewing with the "i want to know models names." I don't need to know their names to do the contract. Again, you've proven you don't understand this to include freelance contracts. So here goes...the contract is signed through a third party. I know, breathtaking isn't it? I don't need to know her name, and she doesn't need to know mine. If there's an issue with the contract, you just go back to the third party and let them know. Also, the third party secures payment before she even does the work, so once the contract is signed there has to be a mutual agreement to cancel it. The only other possibility is that she doesn't deliver, at which point I file a claim and get reimbursed. Understand? Maybe now you can go to another forum and pretend you know something. Furthermore, and in response to your remark, I already "know" plenty of models to include addresses and phone numbers. I didn't even ask for these things, but again, I've gotten to know them and things just worked out that way. And even if you were to ask any of them. I don't usually bother them anyway. Might say "Happy Thanksgiving" or something, but other than that I don't pay much attention to text messaging anyway.

Last but not least, I don't need approval, but kind feedback is appreciated. Besides, all-in-all it doesn't matter to me at this point anyway, because I'm not interested in working with people who are problematic. It would just bore me. As I mentioned earlier, I might work with a subset. But in reality, I have no interest in elevating others who think it's fine and dandy to bring others down.

 

[Teagan]

Dude come on.

I get your idea like i said. A panel of impartial judges vote on camgirl submitted content and whoever has the most votes wins some $$$. Its not hard to grasp. You trying to pretend it's something bigger or so super complicated you cant even explain it without writing 4 pages is quiet ridiculous. As is you trying to call it more recognition over promotion of girls. Lemme just inform you no girl would ever do sites like these (cause like I said they already exist) is for the promotion of it. Recognition means more a pat on the back and a "good girl" head pat. Even more ridiculous is you deluding yourself into thinking that your idea isn't bad but that just no one seems to understand what you are trying to do. No. Its just a bad idea that will fail.

Lastly stop trying to play victim cause people on the big bad interweb were mean to you. For one no one was mean to you so I dont think you know what that word means but for 2 if this is the worst group you have encountered it makes me wonder what other sites you even are a part of. The Wiggles or something cause my gosh i've seen meaner things said on Nickelodeon. But point is you do not get to dictate how other adults speak to you. Ever. Why you seem so stuck on this I dont get. Take your feedback whatether you like or agree with it or not and sack the fuck up. We dont go around here making posts just so others will agree with us or like our stuff. Were trying to get it through your head that the core idea you have is just terrible. That no matter what else goes along with it it's still terrible at it's core and that's why it won't work. You just don't like that and wont accept it and wanna hide behind saying people are just mean or dont understand. That's not true though and either youll see that or youll try out this idea and fail. Its up to you. I know some people will never accept what theyre told and have to fail on their own. Granted those people are mostly toddlers or teens but whatever. I assume you arent a toddler though so really put on your big boy undies and quit complaining and throwing a tantrum like one.

 

[KOTJ74]

you keep saying people are dogpiling on you. i don't think multiple people saying you're idea doesn't sound good or of any use to any camgirl is dogpiling. just multiple people giving you feedback, even if it is negative.

and also saying that people are posting negative feedback just to get an agree rating or smileys is pretty rude, people are just sharing their opinions (like you've asked) and many others agree so are rating the posts as such.

not to be harsh but if you don't like any of the responses you are getting why do you keep replying to every comment with suuuuper long posts instead of just being like "kay, bye" and letting this thread die? obviously no one thinks your idea is good and obviously you won't be swayed so just go do it or don't? idk seems like a waste of your time to me dude

- Not all feedback is negative, and it's not limited to this thread.
- Feedback is something constructive, not destructive, and what people are calling "feedback" a lot of times isn't true
- When people are spewing crap, people are giving them smiley faces or whatever, which makes it hard for me to take them seriously. If they agree with nonsense, why should I agree with their "feedback?"
- If people want to know something and ask, I like to give a thoughtful response. I type extremely fast as well, so it doesn't really bother me.
- Go look up what dog piling is. What's happening here is dog piling.
- If people are taking me as rude, then they were probably rude first. I typically prefer friendly dialogue with people.
- I do like some of the responses, because some people have made helpful and insightful comments, which I appreciate more than they probably realize.
- I don't care if this thread get deleted, or hit with a shovel and dies.
- I kept it short and sweet just for you.

 

[Teagan]

Oh I forgot to add if you think people are just being brave cause theyre behind their keyboard I wonder how much human interaction you get as well. But me personally, I dont post a single thing in the public section I wouldnt say to someones face, this thread included.

Also cause you posted while I was typing do you know what feedback means? Seriously. Its doesnt have to be helpful or nice or constructive to still be feedback. That's just how you want it and again trying to dictate what other people say or do. Stop that. Its not gonna work and makes you look a bit ignorant. Any response is feedback. I find it hilarious youve now called it all crap and nonsense just cause you dont like it. Really illuminates who you truly are. You might be saying youll continue to work within the community later but with only certain people (the ones you deemed were nice enough to you of course) but you fail to see how many people would now refuse to work with you based on this thread and your responses. Like I said no matter what someone says or does to you YOU are the one in control of how you respond and behave always. There's no excuse and you cant blame it on someone else cause they were mean first (maybe you are a toddler the more I read) or justify it that way.

 

[KOTJ74]

Dude come on.

I get your idea like i said. A panel of impartial judges vote on camgirl submitted content and whoever has the most votes wins some $$$. Its not hard to grasp. You trying to pretend it's something bigger or so super complicated you cant even explain it without writing 4 pages is quiet ridiculous. As is you trying to call it more recognition over promotion of girls. Lemme just inform you no girl would ever do sites like these (cause like I said they already exist) is for the promotion of it. Recognition means more a pat on the back and a "good girl" head pat. Even more ridiculous is you deluding yourself into thinking that your idea isn't bad but that just no one seems to understand what you are trying to do. No. Its just a bad idea that will fail.

Lastly stop trying to play victim cause people on the big bad interweb were mean to you. For one no one was mean to you so I dont think you know what that word means but for 2 if this is the worst group you have encountered it makes me wonder what other sites you even are a part of. The Wiggles or something cause my gosh i've seen meaner things said on Nickelodeon. But point is you do not get to dictate how other adults speak to you. Ever. Why you seem so stuck on this I dont get. Take your feedback whatether you like or agree with it or not and sack the fuck up. We dont go around here making posts just so others will agree with us or like our stuff. Were trying to get it through your head that the core idea you have is just terrible. That no matter what else goes along with it it's still terrible at it's core and that's why it won't work. You just don't like that and wont accept it and wanna hide behind saying people are just mean or dont understand. That's not true though and either youll see that or youll try out this idea and fail. Its up to you. I know some people will never accept what theyre told and have to fail on their own. Granted those people are mostly toddlers or teens but whatever. I assume you arent a toddler though so really put on your big boy undies and quit complaining and throwing a tantrum like one.

- No, not at all, but good website documentation is a lot of work. I believe I said that SEO is usually a minimum of 3-4 pages. Maybe you're getting confused with that?
- People are confusing themselves. Others have let me know the understood clearly.
- You are not representative of everybody. But you're opinion does have value.
- You're trying to argue about semantics, which kind of seems pointless.
- I'm not a victim. But people won't understand something if nobody tries to explain it to them. That doesn't mean they will get it.
- Yes, lots of people have been mean, but I'm glad I found out sooner than later.
- I've been involved with lots of sites/forum, and usually there is some type of moderation that limits the fallacies that people try to interject.
- I never said I dictated, but if you are a U.S. citizen, there are laws that say it is deemed inappropriate. Maybe you're not, maybe you are...I dunno, but I'm sure some peeps are.
- You're telling me that I shouldn't dictate how others speak, but you're trying to dictate how I speak.
- I've tried to respond kindly to anyone who has addressed me kindly. However, if people want to try to flame me or whatever...well I don't have a problem responding back and sometimes the truth hurts.
- You're running around in circles with things that I already made clear I wasn't interested in and don't give a flip about at this point.
- Never seen the Wiggles. Is it any good?

 

[Amelia Liddell]

- Not all feedback is negative, and it's not limited to this thread.
- Feedback is something constructive, not destructive, and what people are calling "feedback" a lot of times isn't true
- When people are spewing crap, people are giving them smiley faces or whatever, which makes it hard for me to take them seriously. If they agree with nonsense, why should I agree with their "feedback?"
- If people want to know something and ask, I like to give a thoughtful response. I type extremely fast as well, so it doesn't really bother me.
- Go look up what dog piling is. What's happening here is dog piling.
- If people are taking me as rude, then they were probably rude first. I typically prefer friendly dialogue with people.
- I do like some of the responses, because some people have made helpful and insightful comments, which I appreciate more than they probably realize.
- I don't care if this thread get deleted, or hit with a shovel and dies.
- I kept it short and sweet just for you.

thanks for keeping it short, i'm an avid reader but your insanely long replies are really a chore to sift through when you could get the same point across in way less words (imo).

also yes what Teagan said, feedback isn't always constructive. although many people have given you constructive criticism, like saying you should make a promo twitter instead (which is a fine idea) yet you dismissed them all. Feedback is often "yo, would you want this product?" "fuck nah!" "okay cool!" also everyone has been telling you WHY they wouldn't ever use your thing. if that isn't constructive i don't know what would be.

this is the worst part:

- When people are spewing crap, people are giving them smiley faces or whatever, which makes it hard for me to take them seriously. If they agree with nonsense, why should I agree with their "feedback?"

"why should i listen to people's feedback when everyone agrees with them but i don't?? obviously because i disagree they are only spewing crap"

wtf?? because someone is disagreeing with you or saying something you don't like doesn't make it crap, and the fact that you're saying that makes me feel like you only made this thread in the hopes of getting a billion 'good on you's' for such an amaaazing idea and a bunch of ladies itching to hop on to your project, and when you didn't get that you got all mad about it.

 

[Teagan]

The only thing I tried to dictate was that you should watch what you're saying and how you're responding cause of how you are coming off. Like a pussy. The rest of what you said is just more of the same dribble and you're starting to sound like Charlie Browns teacher to me more and more. Laws? LAWS? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?? I'm just gonna apologize that your parents dropped you on your head so much and leave it at that cause ain't nobody got time for this shit. You want a circle jerk for how great you think you are go to craigslist.

 

[Tristyn]

Models&members telling you that they wouldn't be interested in participating in a contest for models, which would be supported at least in part by members, IS constructive feedback.

Models&members expaining why they don't think this project would be helpful to them, or the cammodelling community at large, IS constructive feedback.

Models&members asking for additional information (like a mock-up site, or for you to clarify your plan), or suggesting alternatives that may work better (like using a twitter or tumblr account intead, for example), IS constructive feedback.

There is a TON of constructive feedback on this thread.

Just because it's not the feedback you were hoping for doesn't mean that it isn't constructive, or that people are purposely being mean to you. You've posted about how straight-forward you are, but still seem to be getting upset at other people for giving you honest feedback.

You said that you wanted to give back to the camming community, right? Insiting that the camming community at large want, need or like a project that you're pitching just because you think it's a good idea is not giving back to anyone.

However, if other models or members dig your idea as much as you've lead us to believe, that's great! There's nothing to stop you from doing it -- at the end of the day, models&members who are interested in partcipating will, and those of us who aren't interested in it will not. No big deal.

Also, I find it pretty odd that you're telling us that it'd be 'too early' to create a mock-up site when you were planning on launching this project on January 1st. Any models, members or judges who might actually want to participate are going to want to know what it's all about before you launch & you're not giving them that chance.

If you've scrapped the idea, though, none of this matters. And since we appear to be talking around in ridiculous circles at this point, and you don't seem to actually want anyone's honest feedback, I think this will be my last post here. Goodluck.

 

[Zoomer]

Contrast how you approached your pitch with how I approached with mine.

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/was-bored-so-a-look-at-cam-statistics.3248/

No-one knew who I was whatsoever... and the importance was communicating the idea, showing the value in it, and getting some feedback based on it. I had the initial site (layout/branding was not necessary - indeed talking branding and other is typical marketing claptrap and not developer - trying to "sell" something you don't even have).

You can no longer see the site, it's 4 and a half years old and I let it lapse. Whilst it was incredibly successful at first... it was a project, not a business proposition. MyCamGirl took a similar idea and ran far further and better with it.

The point? Instead of explaining how your site would be used by people, or keep them coming back, or even interest them in the first instance - you took the opportunity to criticise his site. You never answered how or why people would interact, you just blew some hot air instead. Feel this is unjust? Go back and read your responses...

I understand you don't like the fact people haven't seen value in your concept, nor appreciated you yourself in the way you presented it. It's been proven that people are very open to ideas, very open to contributing and giving great feedback. Are they suddenly closed to it, or dare you consider that perhaps you didn't do a great job of communicating it and then treated those giving feedback, with contempt.

You can blame everyone else for being "bad", or you can perhaps re-evaluate how you approached it and recognised some shortcomings - both in how you presented the idea, and how you responded to people after the fact. It's very easy to cast around and blame everyone else... but when you have to do that, it's time to reflect...

 

[AmberCutie]

Gotta stop saying we just don't understand or are confused by your proposal:

A panel of impartial judges vote on camgirl submitted content and whoever has the most votes wins some $$$. Its not hard to grasp. You trying to pretend it's something bigger or so super complicated you cant even explain it without writing 4 pages is quiet ridiculous. As is you trying to call it more recognition over promotion of girls.

That pretty much sums it up, and if you argue that, it would feel you're backtracking and trying to cover up/are embarrassed at your original idea now that we've naysay'd it.

Lastly stop trying to play victim cause people on the big bad interweb were mean to you. For one no one was mean to you so I dont think you know what that word means but for 2 if this is the worst group you have encountered it makes me wonder what other sites you even are a part of.

I've kept an eye on the thread to make sure it didn't turn into a name calling flame fest. People have been nice even in disagreement with you.

Go look up what dog piling is. What's happening here is dog piling.

It would be dogpiling if people were, as you assume they are, only posting for popularity points with other posters. People keep responding to you with unfavorable posts because it seems earlier posts aren't "getting through" to you. Not sure if it's just you being stubborn and motivated or just a case of hard-headedness.

I've been involved with lots of sites/forum, and usually there is some type of moderation that limits the fallacies that people try to interject.

I'm the sole moderator here (well, Jawbs helps when he can) and don't think this thread needed any moderation so far. Though if this back and forth continues with nothing but claims of fallacies and hurt feels (on your part) I'll have to lock it.

feedback isn't always constructive. although many people have given you constructive criticism, like saying you should make a promo twitter instead (which is a fine idea) yet you dismissed them all. Feedback is often "yo, would you want this product?" "fuck nah!" "okay cool!" also everyone has been telling you WHY they wouldn't ever use your thing. if that isn't constructive i don't know what would be.

Pretty much.

Here's some constructive feedback, though:

If you want a site for people to vote for a normally unrecognized girl to win money each month, start a site that doesn't involve model interaction at all. Get a bunch of cam site members to join, pick their nominations, and all vote on them for the month. Have rules about being under a certain camscore/rank/etc, so it's not the usual top 100 girls. Then everyone goes to tip them a certain amount of tokens that month, plus any cash prize you throw in yourself from any advertising revenue (you'll need to have ads, methinks) you gain from the site.

 

[Sevrin]

This doesn't mean I won't do something helpful to a subset of this community

That would probably work out best. If you building something exclusive that will promote specific models who are interested in working with you, rather than presenting it as something that will benefit all of modelhood, your purpose will become a lot clearer, and the result more satisfactory for everyone involved.

 

[KOTJ74]

Oh I forgot to add if you think people are just being brave cause theyre behind their keyboard I wonder how much human interaction you get as well. But me personally, I dont post a single thing in the public section I wouldnt say to someones face, this thread included.

Congrats. You get +10 cool points. However, many others don't, and if you think they do, you're fooling yourself.

Also cause you posted while I was typing do you know what feedback means? Seriously. Its doesnt have to be helpful or nice or constructive to still be feedback. That's just how you want it and again trying to dictate what other people say or do. Stop that. Its not gonna work and makes you look a bit ignorant. Any response is feedback. I find it hilarious youve now called it all crap and nonsense just cause you dont like it. Really illuminates who you truly are. You might be saying youll continue to work within the community later but with only certain people (the ones you deemed were nice enough to you of course) but you fail to see how many people would now refuse to work with you based on this thread and your responses. Like I said no matter what someone says or does to you YOU are the one in control of how you respond and behave always. There's no excuse and you cant blame it on someone else cause they were mean first (maybe you are a toddler the more I read) or justify it that way.

- You're right, but destructive feedback serves no purpose, whereas constructive feedback does.
- I don't care if you think I'm ignorant. It won't effect the way I sleep tonight.
- I find it hilarious that what I've called crap is actually crap. If you think it's cake, well then go with that. I'm not judging you.
- You have no idea who I am, and obviously you've never cared to know. If so, you would think differently, but oh well. Such is life.
- I don't mind working with certain members of this community, because I adore them and enjoy their presence.
- Yep, I like nice people, and I also prefer a professional environment.
- If someone doesn't want to work with me and I don't want to work with them, then win-win.
- Again, you are right. I choose how I respond. If you want my best, then give me your best. It's a two-way street. If I would've started this thread wanting to start a cam model/member hate site, then by all means, I would've deserved the treatment that I received.

 

[HoldItNow]

This isn't a show, but I'm sure you'll get a few smiley faces for saying things that are irrelevant, since people like a good dogpile, and some might actually believe this nonsense.

Also, if you know anything about venture capitalism, then you should also know it's quite opposite than what you're suggesting. It's very much a numbers game and if you don't know this, then why the heck are you even spewing this crapola? Furthermore, again this is another case of someone talking out there butt, and changing something I said into something different. I never even said such and such is the market size, but what I did say was the part of the market that I would go after. Obviously, when you're dealing with millions of people, the marketing numbers are always increasing anyway, and I used lower limits. So again, stop making things up and spewing senseless garbage.
...

I don't think you understand how polite people are being towards you. Usually a thread like this would have descended into outright mockery by now. You say you have a great background in marketing yet you haven't been able to communicate your concept to the majority of the people in the thread. If you are trying to sell people a concept and they do not understand it, are they to blame for not understanding or is the salesman to blame for not communicating clearly?

You have said that sometimes you go on the cam sites just to talk to your friends and don't even venture into rooms. Then why are you posting here about needing people to make up your panel? Why not create one out of your existing friends who apparently share the same attitudes as you about needing to give more attention to the unrecognized (in your opinion) girls? Then when you have a functional site you can change the make-up of the panel.

Now you're saying that you know the personal details of several models. So again, why are you looking for models here? Why not have them be a part of your website to show other models how it works?

Again, for someone who continues to cite a deep level of marketing experience you seem to have no idea of how your idea is being received despite several people telling you how it has been received.

The most benign view of your idea is that you're asking people to put in the work to make your concept valid despite continually claiming that you have all the expertise and connections to make the project work. No one is looking to make your vision work.

My personal view is that between this idea and some of your other posts you are a member who bears a grudge against certain models if not a large majority of them. Now it's entirely possible I'm wrong but to me, you appear as a less angry version of the guys that populate Lounge 10K.

And claims of a third-party contract broker? Do you not get how empty of a claim that is? No one knows who you are! Hey ladies, I've got a third party business that will act as a buffer between you and me so your private details will never be at risk. It's called HoldItNow Inc but it's in no way affiliated with me!

And in this thread you just pulled the "I'm going to take my ball and go home and it's your loss!" attitude. That doesn't exactly speak highly of your emotional stability.

The lesson is, bring a real product to people. No one is interested in doing the work for you and when they ask questions you have to have actual details. Not hazy responses that are centered on an appeal to authority.

I also made it through this without swearing. If you appreciated that I would be willing to offer you up to $100 as most appreciative forum member. I'll get back to you about when the judging is closed though.

 

[KOTJ74]

I'm the sole moderator here (well, Jawbs helps when he can) and don't think this thread needed any moderation so far. Though if this back and forth continues with nothing but claims of fallacies and hurt feels (on your part) I'll have to lock it.

I would appreciate if you would lock it anyway, but obviously that is your call. Just don't see no point is going round-and-round with people, so it's probably just best to agree to disagree. Also, it's carrying into MFC as well, which I do not appreciate. Thanks.

 

[AmberCutie]

it's probably just best to agree to disagree

See, if you had just said this much earlier in the thread, as opposed to just telling people they were confused about your proposal, I think things may have gone differently.

 

[KOTJ74]

HoldItNow,

I've already went over most of what you said 20 times, and you're creating scenarios that don't exist or have nothing to do with me or anything I've said. Also, you asked about contracts through third parties. Yep, that's a reality. And the only thing else you said that I'm going to respond to is the idea of "grudges against models." That's not even in the ballpark of reality, but I am learning some places to stay away from.

 

[AmberCutie]

I would appreciate if you would lock it anyway,

By the way, I was going to wait and see if you had any thoughts on my "constructive" suggestion.

 

[KOTJ74]

Here's some constructive feedback, though:

If you want a site for people to vote for a normally unrecognized girl to win money each month, start a site that doesn't involve model interaction at all. Get a bunch of cam site members to join, pick their nominations, and all vote on them for the month. Have rules about being under a certain camscore/rank/etc, so it's not the usual top 100 girls. Then everyone goes to tip them a certain amount of tokens that month, plus any cash prize you throw in yourself from any advertising revenue (you'll need to have ads, methinks) you gain from the site

I get what you're saying and it is well taken. I actually don't have a problem doing this. The only thing is that it's a bit limiting in terms of finding people that are interested if I'm limiting it to a few people, and the more I open it up, the more cam models might be able to find their way into it. If there's a way to grab this population while keeping everything valid, it would actually be a quick set up. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[AmberCutie]

I get what you're saying and it is well taken. I actually don't have a problem doing this. The only thing is that it's a bit limiting in terms of finding people that are interested if I'm limiting it to a few people, and the more I open it up, the more cam models might be able to find their way into it. If there's a way to grab this population while keeping everything valid, it would actually be a quick set up. Thanks for the suggestion.

Cool cool. Given the general consensus from models, I assumed that making it more of a fan site in this sense might help guide your pursuits in the right direction.

Now that we've established a bit of a new diving-off point for you, seems it's a good time to say good night to this thread. /salute