Baby It’s Cold Outside!

[camstory]

The demonization of truth, (The ostrazication of a musical standard of its era). I think this might already be a thread here, but a lazy, quick scan revealed nothing.


Baby it’s cold outside, I first heard about 15 years ago, done by James Taylor and Natalie Cole. I thought it was beautiful. This version of the song has been the one I have always searched for, and until this year never knew it was a Christmas standard. What I did know from the first time I heard it, was that it was an honest depiction of the real life dynamics that have traditionally framed the game played by men and women in the pursuit of love, or something thereabouts.


I’m not sure how it works today, but what the lyrics of this song diagram clearly to me, is how the question often was asked, “Do you want to fuck?” Other than the fact that this question is asked with a persistence that maybe borders annoyance, the outrage fails me.


The truth is, heterosexual men (all to some extent, and most, to a great extent) become much like little children in want of sweets, when it comes to pussy. We will beg, plead, charm, lie, coheres, and anything else we think might work to lay with a woman we desire. This is no secret, I have known it since early adolescence, as have all randy young men. Young ladies know it perhaps at an even earlier age, being warned by concerned mothers, protective brothers & fathers, of the monsters boys become.


Besides being a beautifully arranged, and gracefully melodic progression of dialogue, the lyrics of Baby it’s cold outside, are a truthful reflection of the game we often play. What we see in that reflection may not be ideal, and like anything should be open to examination and discussion. Personally I see nothing so ugly that it warrants being pulled from sight.


I wonder if some who felt the need to sensor this song, perhaps failed to see where the lyrics ended, and extrapolated to imagine the all too real and awful ugly progression of the child unable to persuade, refused his sweets. If the lyrics reflected the grotesque behavior of men lacking respect and character who refuse to accept no - who refuse to play by the rules, I would cheer its vanquished. But what I imagine beyond the lyrics is a thing of beauty, not an awful ugliness.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

The truth is, heterosexual men (all to some extent, and most, to a great extent) become much like little children in want of sweets, when it comes to pussy. We will beg, plead, charm, lie, coheres, and anything else we think might work to lay with a woman we desire. This is no secret, I have known it since early adolescence, as have all randy young men. Young ladies know it perhaps at an even earlier age, being warned by concerned mothers, protective brothers & fathers, of the monsters boys become.

I think perhaps the word you were looking for was 'coerce'? No matter, your message is otherwise sound imo.

Perhaps I would add to the "pleading, charming, lying, coercion, and anything else", a shocking susceptibility to believe not only one's own internal bullshit, but a naive willingness to eagerly gulp down whatever koolaid she happens to be passing out as well. Have you ever seen a woman present herself as a victim to two different men, convince them both that the other was her oppressor, then lure them into confrontational situation for the sake of nothing more than apparently her own amusement? It is wickedness...

Or what about a woman who has had her advances rejected, and it enrages them to the point they begin stalking? And not only that, but they manage to manipulate others into taking part in their foul deeds as well? If you cannot make peace with such horrors, it may well forever ruin this song for you...



Positively sinister!

 

[JickyJuly]

Don't have a problem with old versions of the song. It was meant to be a comedy song from a time when that sort of comedy was considered funny. I do think it's weird that people continue to remake it as a Christmas song, and if I owned a radio station, I would skip it especially new versions. It would be like if people covered Adam Sandler's music from Eight Crazy Nights and tried to make it sound sexy or something. Asinine and out of place. Comedy needs context, and sometimes that context is the era it lives in. This song is, imo, one of those.

This paragraph here though is total bs.

The truth is, heterosexual men (all to some extent, and most, to a great extent) become much like little children in want of sweets, when it comes to pussy. We will beg, plead, charm, lie, coheres, and anything else we think might work to lay with a woman we desire. This is no secret, I have known it since early adolescence, as have all randy young men. Young ladies know it perhaps at an even earlier age, being warned by concerned mothers, protective brothers & fathers, of the monsters boys become.

The fact that moms and dads have to warn young women about the way some men mistreat other humans excuses nothing. The way some men act is the way they're allowed to. "Most men" is a gross overstatement. I've turned down plenty of dudes in my day (probably days long behind me, hehehe). I've had 1 beg. I've had one play the long game and lie about being in love, and I've had 1 go too far. Most men are decent human beings who take the rejection and keep it moving. You can be a man, or you can be a child. You can't be both. Men need to start expecting better of other men and speaking up when this shit gets put out there as fact.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

 

[AudriTwo]

Oh man. I thought this thread was to bitch about the weather cause it's 60° here in Florida. I'm bundled up like I'm in in a ice fishing shack with my space heater.



Thoughts on the radio station banning it? It's not like we have access to oodles of mass media on our pock- oh wait.


Regardless music is art. It's an expression of experiences, emotion, and thought. I don't care if people are remaking the lyrics to be more sexual, since that is a fundamental of art. Taking something that already exists and putting your own creative spin on it. We've been doing it since the stone ages. Art is supposed to make you feel and think. May that feeling be "I don't like it" to "I find it relatable."

I understand why it would be banned. They are a radio station, a business. They cannot lose their funding, so it is what it is. The same reason why my local rock radio station won't play the clean version of Closer by NIN.



---


With some people up in arms about this (for and against), the Huffpost's one person's hot take on a rudolph cartoon and fox news responding to it as "PROOF LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES WAR ON CHRISTMAS" I'm like why? It's Christmas. Calm down and listen to Linus's meaning of Christmas.


"and on earth peace, goodwill toward men." you don't have to be a religious person to agree with that.

 

[zippypinhead]

I work in a retail setting, and I hear about half a dozen versions of the song on a daily basis, and there are a couple of versions out there that feel more "problematic" than most, but I think overall it's a playful song about a flirtation, where neither of the participants really wants to part ways, and the language being used is a product of the time. I'm not interested in helping to stoke the boilers of the Outrage Machine, so here's a couple of amusing versions of the song.

The original produced version, taken from the movie Neptune's Daughter, and which won an Oscar.


A bluegrass version with Homer and Jethro and June Carter, which changes up the lyrics to give it that authentic Americana feel.

 

[AudriTwo]

A bluegrass version with Homer and Jethro and June Carter, which changes up the lyrics to give it that authentic Americana feel.

this is my absolute favorite version of this song. i love it.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Not really a fan of the song. Comes as a complete surprise to me that we are on the third year of the silliness surrounding it though.

Here is the duo reportedly behind it.....



There is a chuckle or two to be found in the comments.

 

[SaffronBurke]

The issue with the song is really just that times have changed so much, the meaning of different phrases has changed. In the time it was written, it was scandalous for a woman to stay over at a man's house, and the subject of the song definitely wants to stay, but is making the socially necessary protests, ending with both parties agreeing that she "has" to stay because the weather is just too bad for her to get home safely. Worrying about appearances and propriety aren't such an issue today, so the discussion would basically be, "hey, you wanna stay the night" and a "yes". An interaction like in the song taking place today would definitely be seen as coercion and in bad taste.

The line that has changed the most in meaning is "hey, what's in this drink?". Today, it's almost certainly a blatant call-out of "hey, you roofied me!" Back then, it was completely different. It was typically said when there was absolutely no alcohol in a woman's drink, but she wanted an excuse to do something she "shouldn't do".

It's one of those things that, viewed through the lense of the time, means something different, so while we can appreciate the original, we shouldn't be doing covers. I see it as similar to Blazing Saddles - great movie, good point, but a remake would be out of line for today. Even an "easily-triggered liberal snowflake" like myself loves that movie for the point it made in its time, and I quote it frequently - I never fail to get my key in the lock if I tell myself "think of your secretary" - but if someone decided to revamp it, I'd be appalled. Partly because the remake of The Producers was meh in my opinion, mostly because it would be less making a point and more giving a bunch of white actors an excuse to throw the n-word around.

 

[yummybrownfox]

This "Baby, It's Cold Outside" controversy has been a hot topic on Facebook, so in honor of that I started using the "Baby, it's cold outside!" FB profile photo frame (That's actually been a FB photo frame for a while...lol).

 

[dilligaf0]

My personal opinion, and my practice for years, is that if any song comes on that I don't want to hear I change stations.
Why is there such a need for so many people to feel they have to protect the whole world?
It's just a damn song!
If you want to get bent out of shape about something, make it something important.
Mass slaughters in many countries around the world, starving children, etc.

 

[bud9752]

But , But, with all this Global warming it can't be Cold Outside

 

[camstory]

Don't have a problem with old versions of the song. It was meant to be a comedy song from a time when that sort of comedy was considered funny. I do think it's weird that people continue to remake it as a Christmas song, and if I owned a radio station, I would skip it especially new versions. It would be like if people covered Adam Sandler's music from Eight Crazy Nights and tried to make it sound sexy or something. Asinine and out of place. Comedy needs context, and sometimes that context is the era it lives in. This song is, imo, one of those.

This paragraph here though is total bs.

The fact that moms and dads have to warn young women about the way some men mistreat other humans excuses nothing. The way some men act is the way they're allowed to. "Most men" is a gross overstatement. I've turned down plenty of dudes in my day (probably days long behind me, hehehe). I've had 1 beg. I've had one play the long game and lie about being in love, and I've had 1 go too far. Most men are decent human beings who take the rejection and keep it moving. You can be a man, or you can be a child. You can't be both. Men need to start expecting better of other men and speaking up when this shit gets put out there as fact.

If taken literally, yes I would agree it is bs. I was not clear on this point, and I did not mean to suggest that this is the SOP for most men. I think most men know what is right and what is not. I was thinking of the song lyrics in which the male half is most persistent, and seems to ignore the concerns of the female and instead pushes his argument that she should stay. This dogged persistence is not only typical of men, but is also the role we have traditionally played in courtship. It is not just the role of male humans, but is very prominent across the animal world. Often it is the role of the male to convince the love of the female, and very often this convincing is only successful when it is persistent and/or elaborate.


The fact that you have only had one encounter with someone who pushed it too far I think is fortunate, and I hope you are lucky enough to never have to deal with a similar experience. That said, I am afraid that otherwise stable, sane, men can find themselves unable, or unwilling to control their actions when it comes to getting laid. I don’t mean to say most men are capable of pushing things to the extreme, but beyond what could be reasonably persistent, I think most are capable of that.


The fact that most don’t, most of the time can be explained as much by fear of repercussions as much as it can be by good character. Reference, Charlie Rose, Tavis Smiley, Al Franken, Garrison Keillor. All considered men of some character whom I suggest let a sense of immunity push their character aside. The average man has no sense of immunity to cloud his judgement and more easily controls his desires that would push too far.

 

[camstory]

Plus 1 + 1 @ it’s a song not so important in the bigger picture.