Athiesm and feminism

[LadyLuna]

The following video does a good job of showing some of the issues and problems with feminism and some so-called-atheists.

I find it easier to just listen without watching her, cause her facial expressions when she gets passionate are very distracting.



Why I'm not an Athiest: because I have evidence within my own life that something higher exists.
Why I'm no longer Catholic: because I saw the contradictions within their own teachings, and realized that there's no such thing as a "one-size-fits-all" for ANYTHING, even religion.
Why I'm not a feminist: because I feel like the feminist battles have already been fought, and today's feminists appear to me to be looking, not for equality, but for superiority.

Please, don't make personal attacks on anyone. Keep this civil!

Poll has three options, one for how religious you are, one for if you follow an organized religion or not, and one for how you feel about feminism. (Plenty of people are not religious but still go to church, hence why those are separated.)

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I'm not an athiest. I'm open to the idea of their being a god and or many gods, but I practice no religion what so ever.

I am a feminist, I believe women can be as good or as bad as men.

 

[Red7227]

I don't believe in long answers to philosophical questions, so this should stay short.

Do I believe in the judeo-christian god? No.

Have I seen things that science cannot yet explain? Yes, but that doesn't mean that there are gods involved.

Do I believe that there is value in having a belief system like that of organised religion or atheism? Yes, it leads to a sense of morality, community and solidarity, which is mostly a good thing. Leaving that up to parents, given how retarded many parents are, seems less than ideal. Morality should be taught in schools,and the easiest way is to teach people about religion. Comparing religions like Islam, judaism and buddhism in class is going to give kids a far better idea of right or wrong than listening to their parents or watching TV.

Can I see patriarchy as a negative thing? Yes. It is ridiculous to claim that men and woman are the same, but there is no reason not to treat and value them equally.

 

[Evvie]

I don't believe in long answers to philosophical questions, so this should stay short.

Do I believe in the judeo-christian god? No.

Have I seen things that science cannot yet explain? Yes, but that doesn't mean that there are gods involved.

Do I believe that there is value in having a belief system like that of organised religion or atheism? Yes, it leads to a sense of morality, community and solidarity, which is mostly a good thing. Leaving that up to parents, given how retarded many parents are, seems less than ideal. Morality should be taught in schools,and the easiest way is to teach people about religion. Comparing religions like Islam, judaism and buddhism in class is going to give kids a far better idea of right or wrong than listening to their parents or watching TV.

Can I see patriarchy as a negative thing? Yes. It is ridiculous to claim that men and woman are the same, but there is no reason not to treat and value them equally.

I am surprised to hear you say that you think the best way to teach ethics is by teaching religion.

 

[Red7227]

I am surprised to hear you say that you think the best way to teach ethics is by teaching religion.

All religions have as their core a set of ethics. Teaching a bunch of kids the ethics of a range of different religions, and comparing them, will get kids thinking for themselves. The other reason is ignorance breeds fear. I hope any of my kids will become devout atheists, but the best I can give them is to show them all religions, their beauty, their beliefs and their flaws. Most religions don't agree on anything, so leaving them to disprove each other is the easiest way to disprove them all. They all do however give life advice, and teach respect and tolerance, even if it is only very narrowly focused on their own followers. Kids aren't stupid, and i trust them to take away more positives than negatives.

 

[MrTrenchcoat]

I prefer to identify as a non-practising atheist, simply due to what it seems the vast majority of atheists believe and do. Interesting video, I hadn't thought to look at feminism in that particular light before though it explains a lot.

I disagree with current feminism and I have done for a while. I've found when feminists argue statistics, including the wage disparity, they tend to use the average wages. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but here the industries men tend to go into pay more, regardless of gender. Comparing the wages of a childcare worker and a miner doesn't make any sense, at all. One is quite dangerous work where ear protection is necessary and injuries are common place, the other digs rocks out of the ground.

Basically, people are people. If there was quantifiable proof a deity exists, I still would not believe in them. It'd be like believing in the postman.

 

[Nordling]

I listened to about 80% of the YouTube...partly because of her delivery, but also the word salad factor was making me more confused about WTF was she even saying?

She seemed to be putting "feminism" into a narrow box, as if NOW or whatever organization she was referencing was the only way to view the word itself...which to me is simply belief in the equality of the genders.

I was glad she finally said she was an atheist, not because I cared but because her stream of conscious-seeming monologue was getting very annoying and I just wanted her to get if over with.

Atheism has nothing to do with morality; there are many indications that humans, and other higher order species are hard wired with morality, which can be reenforced and expanded with education and role modeling. Religions may to some extent mirror this built-in morality too, but the mirror is cracked and blurry. Also, atheism is not monolithic--atheists are very diverse--from strong atheist (those who say there IS no god(s), weak atheists (myself, who choose not to believe in god(s) because of insufficient evidence but refuse to proclaim it's impossible, to agnostics, who say it's impossible to ever know if there are gods a god or The God (and this to me is silly, how can you hold a position of a belief in ignorance, but then claim that is some kind of absolute itself?)

/end of my own word salad.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Not really an atheist (more of an agnostic, and yes my buttocks are sore from sitting on the fence :-D) but I'm all for feminism.

Not so much militant/radical feminism (although it's hard to argue that for all intents and purposes we still live in a patriarchal society) but if I was a chick, I'd be a third-wave feminist, I guess (I had typed "I am a third-wave feminist" but it sounded wrong; is a dood who believes in a feminist ideology a feminist or just an advocate of feminism?). I don't see why anyone who's not a misogynist or just unbelievably ignorant wouldn't get behind a movement that strives for equality.

I like the idea of lipstick feminism and can absolutely see why after having female sexuality essentially annexed by male-dominated marketing practitioners for so long, women would want to embrace their own sexual power. By extension, I'm all for stiletto feminism (I frequent camsites after all :-D) and don't see stripping or prostitution as demeaning or antithetical to feminist ideals. There is a paradox wherein a lot of women in the sex trade make more money for their male... bosses? (for lack of a better word) than they make for themselves but then more and more women are keeping more and more of the money they generate with their own bodys (camming being a prime example with cam girls essentially being their own boss).

And on a more superficial note, I loved the punk rock/DIY aesthetic of the whole riot grrrl movement. Bikini Kill and Bratmobile and the like made great music in a male dominated music scene, touring not just a great setlist but an ideology that wasn't at all prevalent until they came along. The suffragettes obviously did a great deal for feminism in literal terms, but I guess it could be argued that Bikini Kill et al did a great deal for pop cultural attitudes when it came to feminism in the 90s. Second-wave feminism didn't do a whole lot for the public image of the ideology, but the whole riot grrrl thing made it cool and therefore more palatable to a new generation of women (and doods). Which I think is a good thing.

Thus concludes everything I know about feminism (which isn't a whole lot :-D), but in short, yes, I think feminism is a good thing. And as for "all the battles being won"... I certainly don't see it that way. As long as men continue to be paid more than women to work the same job, as long as misogynist attitudes are as common as they are, as long as "slut-shaming" is a thing and as long 90% of the important decisions are being made by men, there's still work to do, ya know?

Here be some bonus feminist things that are cool...

http://jezebel.com/

Jezebel is a rather cool pop-culture website written exclusively from the female perspective. It's clearly aimed at women but it's well-written and informative and a good source for stuff that male-dominated media tend not to cover - so even if you have a penis, it's still well worth a read once a week :thumbleft:





And not one, but two awesome songs from Bikini Kill (they who kick-started the riot grrrl thang). The first of which ("Rebel Girl") was pretty much the unofficial anthem for third-wave feminism and the second ("Anti-Pleasure Dissertation") contains what may be my favourite lyric of all time - "Did you tell your fucking friends what I thought and how I felt, how punk-fucking-rock my pussy smells?" :-D

 

[SweepTheLeg]

This is an example of what I have witnessed in the work place.

A female operator who has more experience and knowledge will either come up with an idea to improve production, or know the reasoning behind what is going wrong. She gets ignored and what she has to say is easily discarded away, but a man whether he be an operator with less experience or lowest on the totem pole as a helper would say the exact same thing soon after and he will get a pat on the back, complimented for his idea and for helping the company all right in front of her. If she brings it up, it's just sour grapes and she should be more supportive of her co-workers.

Little things like this is why I'm a feminist.

 

[Nordling]

My favorite YouTube host on the subject of atheists is a Romanian lady--ZomGitsCriss She includes a little humor and is also great to look at. She has many on this subject and also some on feminism:

 

[bob]

i didn't answer the poll....your explanation of it made sense, but still.....
i was more intrigued by the link -for better or for worse- between atheism and feminism.

i didn't watch the vid either :whistle:

seems to me that the big question -the first one on everyone's profile :lol: ....the "meaning of life"- ultimately boils down to each individual and the peace they make with their spirituality....and for many here, that'll be synonymous with religion

god, and all the forms of faith that have been created to identify whatever mysteries "it" has answers too....is one way to approach that peace....it's a flawed concept to me, but that's just me

atheism is -to my way of thinking- just another form of faith meant to answer the same questions that religious people ask. It frames the questions in more modern terminology, and uses a methodology based on a relatively new form of human endeavor....ie, science, for the most part. (logic, too....but don't get me started on "the rational mind" :shhh: )
that the questions are the same is proved to me by science's increasing interest in the altered states presented by eastern "religious" disciplines....these practices seek answers to those same questions through the pursuit of states of mind (the non physical world), rather than through judgments about the "reality" of the physical world.

all of it just feels like the same stuff to me...just packaged differently, owing to worldview.

i'm sure that the idea of feminism fits into each of these constructs differently...politically, it's a concept i'll argue in favor of, same as any other question of "equality": it's the right of every human being to have equal opportunity in the world we make for ourselves....that's a fundamental responsibility of any society whose mantra is freedom

to clarify, it's also the responsibility of every human being to make the most of that opportunity....like it or not, you don't get to be "more" just because you feel oppressed or slighted or under appreciated.....you gotta struggle to claim your freedom

individually -in my little corner of culture- i like women: sounds silly, i'm sure, but their presence in the world is ALMOST reason enough, all by itself, to answer that meaning of life question :-D .....there are things about "feminism" that are weird to me -same as there are about gay rights or la raza or christianity- mostly they have to do with the use of power based on some sort of exclusion.......

which always brings me back to the eccentricities of faith based belief systems...they tend to be exclusionary....and that's just weird to me.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[southsamurai]

yay! i get to dust off the soap box again!

nah, seriously. on the topic of religion im buddhist/taoist/ex pagan/thelemist who still worships a couple of deities, including one or two from santeria/voodoo. dont ask, it works for me lol

when it comes to worship of deity/s my whole reason for doing it is pretty jungian rather than religious. i dont see any of the gods currently worshiped by humans to be concrete, discrete entities. my view is of archetypes, any of which is valid and useful in dealing with the unexplained parts of life. i just happen to like the really cool ones ( see, my gods arent more powerful or better than your's, but they are just uber leet)

feminism to me is like any other ism. i happen to agree with the majority of modern feminist thought, and am astounded by the thought that there still isnt social equity between the sexes. that deep principle behind feminism i've always believed, even before i knew it was a problem in the world (my family is full of very strong women, so i was much older when i learned that a vagina does not equal a penis to a lot of the world). social equity to me is a necessity for any complex society to survive for more than a century or two. (which doesnt just apply to sex, but im stayin on topic here, i promise)

now, some of the early feminist rhetoric was just as bad as patriarchy, and im as militant about males having equal rights as well. so i dont see feminism as being useful when it turns into simple man bashing. hence my first sentence in the previous paragraph. it is like any ism. it is my long held view that any time any ism, or structured belief system, is organized into groups of over 100 people (or so) it turns into chaos that is potentially destructive. so far feminism has avoided that curse, and i hope it keeps doing so.
in that spirit i shall burn my damn bras, stop shaving my legs and pits and run around with my boobs out to support all my sisters! oh wait, sorry, 60's flashback there. that is still what a lot of people think about when they hear feminist though. if you happen to read this and dont think you are out of date, there is this thing called the internet. it has this thing called google. read up as wonderful as Steinem is, and as important as her words and work are and were, feminism has changed with the times. the old glass ceiling is still there, but its a few floors higher in the building, and the wage gap is slowly closing. ( very, very slowly alas). the women's rights movement is still cutting edge for the most part and i look forward to seeing true equality for all at least here in the USA before i kick the bucket. MARCH ON SISTERS!

disclaimer: it might sound like i was ridiculing the movement and ideals, but the intent was to skewer old stereotypes and have a bit of a private chuckle with my mom when i copy this and email it to her. damned old hippie chick

 

[LadyLuna]

The biggest reason I got turned off by feminism was that I saw a lot of feminists putting down all men.

I've watched quite a few of the Girl Writes... WHAT? videos, and her point is that, while women might still have a long way to go to get some of the same benefits men have, they are at the same time doing nothing to give men a lot of the same benefits that women have.

Men in an abusive relationship should just put up with it.
Men getting hit by their wives is no big deal.
If women want the men out of their lives completely, there is no need for the men to ever see their children again.

I'm technically on both sides. YES, women do need to be taken more seriously in a lot of situations. YES, women need to be paid the same amount as a man if they're doing the same job as a man. But, also, men need to be given equal rights to visit their children unless it's proven that they are abusive towards those children. Men shouldn't have to give the mother of their children more than enough to cover the expenses of raising those children, regardless of how much money the men are making (if you really feel the children deserve a percentage, have them put the excess in a bank account that the children have access to, not the mothers. Why? Because of how many mothers out there who spend that excess on themselves, instead of on their children.) Men who are raped or beaten need to be taken seriously, and given the same level of support as women who were raped or beaten.

I look at my city, and I hear my partner. It's harder for a man to be hired than a woman right now. Especially if it's a woman doing the hiring, as it is in a lot of jobs around here. So, while the male IT guy is paid more than the female IT girl even if he isn't quite as qualified as she is, the female IT girl is going to find a job a hell of a lot easier than the male IT guy, even if she isn't quite as qualified as he is. Less of a paycheck than he would have gotten is still more than the no paycheck at all that he is getting.

I'm not saying that we need less programs for women. I think we need more for both men AND women. Both sides need to be taken more seriously, just in different areas.

----

Red- I like your idea (teach them about all the religions and let them make up their own minds)

 

[Ann_Sulu]

I wasn't raised Catholic, but other than that I completely agree with Luna. I like to go with humanism. Feminism tends to gear everything too much to "We are women! Worship us!" Yeah, I don't like that bs...I don't believe men and women should be treated "equally" because, well, we're different. However, I believe we should try to make it as balance as is possible. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Nordling]

I wasn't raised Catholic, but other than that I completely agree with Luna. I like to go with humanism. Feminism tends to gear everything too much to "We are women! Worship us!" Yeah, I don't like that bs...I don't believe men and women should be treated "equally" because, well, we're different. However, I believe we should try to make it as balance as is possible. :twocents-02cents:

I agree, except when I say "treated equally" in regard to gender, I don't mean we should install urinals in women's lavatories. More like treated as equal humans with equal rights, while making considerations for superficial differences.

 

[southsamurai]

thank you very very much miss luna! mentioning father's rights directly and hearing it from a lady made me feel so much better about the world!

 

[helloimc]

I am not religious. I do remember a time it provided me a lot of comfort though. I'm happy for the religious people I meet and that they have something that gives them a sense of peace. I am not happy when someone tries to disrupt another person's idea of tranquility ie. Someone religious verbally attacking an atheist and vice versa.

If asked, I would say yes, I'm a feminist. It's not a label I would necessarily use to describe myself in conversation. I would hope that my actions would speak for themselves. I try my best to treat each person equally, regardless of gender, and that's what feminism is about, right? I think both self-proclaimed feminists and anti-feminists get lost and believe it's about superiority.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I know feminists that have great beliefs, but I'd say the majority of self-proclaimed feminists are bat shit crazy. They do not want equality, they want superiority.
A guy friend of mine was yelled at by a woman for opening a door for her. WTF. Then my bf who was the best at his job, was not hired. He couldn't understand why. Apparently the woman was a feminist who ONLY hired other women. Could you imagine the outrage that would occur if a man pulled that same stunt?! You have all women's gyms, but if there were all men's gyms, there would be outrage. Then you have the feminists that belittle stay at home moms and hate porn.
Personally, I don't want to be equal! I LIKE getting free drinks cause I have tits.
Again, I know not all feminists are like that. But the majority that I've come across, unfortunately, are angry man-haters. I feel sorry for their poor husbands.

As for religion. I'm not religious, but I believe in the Christian God amongst other things such as reincarnation. My theory is a lot to explain.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Bullet points!

- Feminism (by definition) is not about female superiority, it's about equality.

- Being different does not preclude being equal. That's the whole point of equality. Not treating a gender or a race or a religious group or those of a particular sexual orientation any worse than everybody else simply because they're "different". Third-wave feminism in particular is all about embracing people's differences while moving towards acceptance and equality and stuff.

- Militant feminists do nothing to help anybody with their man-hating rhetoric and narrow-minded views of what it is to be a woman ("porn? stripping? camming? the horror!"). In fact they do more harm than good as they propogate the negative stereotypical image that so many people have of feminists in general.

- There are instances where men get shafted by pre-concieved notions of gender roles, paternal rights being the main one and there's no justification for that.

- Being proud of who and what you are is neither arrogant nor an attack on anybody who happens to be different to you.

 

[NikkiBlossom]

I was raised as a Christian. I actually went to a private Christian school my whole childhood. But I would say that I am spiritual but not religious. I feel like even if there is a "one true way" it has been severely tainted. I am not really an advocate for religion. I also feel like something people fight over so much across the world and causes so much violence and killing is not something that the God-like figure of these religions would want. So even if religion did start of as something good, it is not anymore. It is used for violence, corruption, and deceit. I also feel like religion is a brainwashing tactic especially when taught to somebody from an extremely young age that can't quite make decisions on their own. But maybe I just feel this way because I was raised a Christian and went to a Christian school with a Bible class. I always felt like something was not right because every time I asked a question (which most curious, wanting to learn children do), I felt like I was being given the run around. But I would just accept it because this is what Mommy and Daddy does and if I don't believe I will burn in the fiery gates of hell forever. See where this can take a wrong turn?

But I also cannot say that I do not believe there is something out there, but I don't believe its so omnipotent like most religions would want you to believe.

On Feminism. I have no real strong feelings on it. Maybe because I enjoy the girly things out of life. I like men opening the door for me. I like that men pay for dinner on dates. I feel like the man should also be the head of the household. Not a Master/slave type way (well...actuallly... but we won't go there right now :lol: ), but more of we are partners and make decisions together but I'm going to let you be a man. I feel like its up to the wife to marry somebody that she finds trustworthy enough to take lead and not make completely idiot mistakes, but thats another story. I'm all happy about being able to work the same job as a man and I can wear pants and such now. But I feel like most feminist have forgot about the "fem" part they are standing for.

 

[bob]

On Feminism. I have no real strong feelings on it. Maybe because I enjoy the girly things out of life. I like men opening the door for me. I like that men pay for dinner on dates. I feel like the man should also be the head of the household. Not a Master/slave type way (well...actuallly... but we won't go there right now :lol: ), but more of we are partners and make decisions together but I'm going to let you be a man. I feel like its up to the wife to marry somebody that she finds trustworthy enough to take lead and not make completely idiot mistakes, but thats another story. I'm all happy about being able to work the same job as a man and I can wear pants and such now. But I feel like most feminist have forgot about the "fem" part they are standing for.

I'd say those are pretty strong feelings.....I like em :thumbleft:
Men and woman are always gonna be different.....generally speaking, we have different strengths and weaknesses....and the desire to be treated like a lady -with that old fashion respect- or to behave like a man -with that old fashion respect- does not automatically mean a person does not endorse equal pay, equal freedoms, and equal responsibilities between men and women.

 

[JordanBlack]

I'm an atheist & feminist, not hardcore though, at least I hope I'm not

Religion was not a big thing in my family, both parents are scientists (even though I was born in a very religious country). Also I believe there's a big difference between morality (what religion might teach you) and ethics (what society teaches you).

I would never impose my view as an atheist on anyone, as I would be very annoyed if anyone would try to "convert" me. There's that little thing Freedom of picking your own creed, you can believe in anything you want as long as it doesn't affect me (here's a lot of debate about Religion in Politics, but I won't get into it).

Regarding Feminism. While the Western world has made a lot of progress regarding the empowerment of women, I'm a firm believer that in more then 70% countries of the world, patriarchy still prevails. And I don't think anyone should undermine those that still fight for the rights of women to education, to their own reproductive system, to work etc.

My :twocents-02cents:

 

[DudeExtreme]

I grew up in a very conservative Christian environment that represented an extreme view of how to live life. The benefits from it helped me to have a good work and moral ethic. The negative part, it was way too restrictive and not opened minded to many things. I'm still religious and believe in the Christian God, but am open minded to the common beliefs that are shared among all religions and philosophies. It's a great freedom to understand where others come from in their beliefs.

As far as feminism, I think its great and can be used as a tool for equality. When one goes to one or another of the extremes of pro-feminism or anti-feminism, it becomes about superiority.

Now for me, I will still open doors and treat women with great respect. If I can give a free drink to a beautiful woman, I will.

 

[southsamurai]

one thing about modern feminism i love is that it allows a re-embracing of all female roles, including the "girly" stuff. empowerment doesnt mean anymore that you have to be career driven and ignore "traditional" female roles. there is great empowerment is being a stay home mom, in being the home maker.

my grandmother is one of the strongest women i have ever known and she never had a job outside of that. she did cross stitch, knitting, cooked amazing meals, wiped all our bottoms when were were babies, and still does for her great grand children. she can also hold her own in any discussion of religion, politics, world affairs and any topic short of particle physics. she can still tell the males in her life when and how they are being idiots if we are at the same time she showers us with love and acceptance and empathy. if i was half as strong and kind and wonderful as her i would be proud of myself as a man. but guess what... she still thinks that feminism as a movement is sort of silly. she has always acted as an equal, knows herself and enjoys the life she chose. she has always assumed that anyone, man or woman, can be who and what they wish to be regardless of what the world thinks. at the same time as chuckling at militant feminists she still gives her "welllll that's just shavings!" to all the inequality that women have faced. i'm a lucky son of a gun to have had her example as well as those of the other women who helped raise me (the men too, but staying on topic here)

 

[CharlotteLace]

I have a lot of feminists in my extended family, and their feminism seems pretty hypocritical to me. They'll point out the wage gap (which is a misleading statistic), they'll point out misogyny, they'll point out the abortion debate that raged last election.

But when I point out custody battles favoring mothers, girls making false rape charges and never being prosecuted, lighter jail sentences for women than men, the lack of domestic violence shelters that admit husbands/fathers, the "joking" misandry concerning men being raped in prison or hit by their wives, or the fact that it's 2013 and men still are the only ones who are required to sign up for the draft...

I get a "well, that's not our concern." To me it screams that they aren't for equality, they're for superiority. (Yes, not all feminists are like this, but a lot of the loudest ones lately seem to be)

It boggles my mind. If I was so inclined to ruin a man's life, all I would have to do is have sex with him and make a rape allegation. If he didn't get sent to prison, his reputation would still be ruined and I would likely receive no repercussions from filing a false report.

Speaking of prison, men tend to get harsher sentences than women for the same crime. When was the last time a male teacher molested a student, and only got 12 months in prison, then rehab? A female teacher in my state got just that last year for molesting 2 young teen boys.

It bothers me that, even if it's a man calling 911 for domestic violence, he's still more likely to get arrested. And where can he turn if he decides to leave his abusive relationship? Men's shelters often don't let you stay long, and I don't believe a lot of them allow children (I may be mistaken, though.)

I mean, honestly, if I wanted to be sinister, it would be so damn easy for me to ruin my husband's life, never let him see his kids, probably easily turn both our families and our friends against him. All on hearsay.

That's why it's hard for me to be told I need to be empowered, and that men are holding me back. I feel just fine, and honestly I think a lot of the systems in America are skewed to my advantage. Scholarships, grants, and loans just because I'm a woman. Maternity leave. No draft to sign up for. Priority custody for our (hypothetical) kids if we split. Child support and alimony.

I don't need to be empowered anymore than I already am; I don't see myself as a victim of patriarchy.

 

[Red7227]

"Men who open doors for women are guilty of 'benevolent sexism' according to a new study by feminist psychologists.
Helping the ladies choose the right computer as well as carrying their shopping are also signs of 'unseen' sexism in society, according to the report.

Referring to a group of men and women as 'guys' is also a no-no, says the research, meaning that even men who seem enlightened could be unknowingly committing daily acts of sexism.

It could also mean that women, too, are unaware of it but are unwittingly affected because it helps to create a culture of women being seen as the vulnerable sex who need a man's help.

Other examples of unseen sexism include calling women 'girls' but not referring to men as 'boys' and a man offering to do the driving on a long journey instead of a female partner.

Researchers from the Society for the Psychology of Women conducted a study among workers of both genders in America and Germany.
The volunteers were asked to keep diaries in which they were asked to note examples from a long list of both sexist and non-sexist incidents - without being told what the study was for."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lrous.html

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I am pleasantly surprised by these answeres! I thought for sure I'd have all the women on the forum against me, only to find that many of us are well balanced in our opinions. :-D

 

[JordanBlack]

"Men who open doors for women are guilty of 'benevolent sexism' according to a new study by feminist psychologists.
Helping the ladies choose the right computer as well as carrying their shopping are also signs of 'unseen' sexism in society, according to the report.

Referring to a group of men and women as 'guys' is also a no-no, says the research, meaning that even men who seem enlightened could be unknowingly committing daily acts of sexism.

It could also mean that women, too, are unaware of it but are unwittingly affected because it helps to create a culture of women being seen as the vulnerable sex who need a man's help.

Other examples of unseen sexism include calling women 'girls' but not referring to men as 'boys' and a man offering to do the driving on a long journey instead of a female partner.

Researchers from the Society for the Psychology of Women conducted a study among workers of both genders in America and Germany.
The volunteers were asked to keep diaries in which they were asked to note examples from a long list of both sexist and non-sexist incidents - without being told what the study was for."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lrous.html

That, if I may say so, it's bat-shit crazy feminism, to quote Megan

I can't believe I just read something from dailymail.co.uk though :roll:

 

[VeeValencia]

I was raised Catholic and stayed involved in the church until I was 17. I started seeing how hypocritical and judgmental religion can be and there were just so many little things that being so involved in my church showed me. I don't need a hierarchy to tell me what is right and what is wrong and I sure as hell didn't want to follow the laws of an old book.
I think that there may be a higher power out there but I'm not sure about a man in the sky listening to everyone's prayers and judging who is worthy of heaven... but then again I don't know and I don't think anyone does. A belief in something greater than ourselves can really help someone and bring meaning to their lives so I have nothing against it but it's just not for me at this point in my life.

As far as feminism... umm... I think that there are many great points to wanting woman to be equal but like Megan said, many feminist are just bat shit crazy. Putting down men just for being men is ridiculous and some tend to be very judgmental towards other woman.

 

[Deleted member 8603]

Many people who are misandrists label themselves as feminists and give everyone a bad name.

Also, having punishments for fake rape charges is a TERRIBLE idea.
It would mean punishing every woman who was raped and couldn't prove it, as well.
And as many women who are raped have issues proving it due to not immediately going to the hospital (because of psychological damage) there would be a LOT of women being raped and then being punished for it.
It would also deter even more women from reporting rape because they "wouldn't believe me anyway".

Perhaps better treatment for men who are falsely accused would be a better way of going about that.

I also want to say that equality should go both ways.
Men and women should be getting equal rights, not one over the other.
There are things that need to be fixed on both sides.