Alleged UCSB shooter and his batshit YouTube channel

[HiGirlsRHot]

His therapists/parents should have decided to commit him to a psych ward.

A bulk of society seems to be under the impression that this is actually easy to do. Trust me from very very personal experience, it's not! Not even the tiniest little bit and that is a HUGE part of the problem in this country. Prison is the new psych ward.

Which is kind of a two edged sword. Decades ago, all you needed was a couple signatures to get someone committed...and sometimes it had nothing to do with sanity but rather to gain control of someone's assets. The pendulum swings too wide.

It certainly isn't easy and I don't think that making it hard to commit somebody is a bad thing. I have a vivid childhood (7) memory of my dad being really shook up because one of his work colleagues was committed to a mental institution, the funny farm is what we use to call them in the days before PC. They took the guy from his house and put him in a straitjacket. He spent many months in the place, and when got released he described being subject to electric shock therapy. Which he described as being the most horrific pain imaginable. (I understand it is also effective at times). Many years latter we watched the great One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest and that triggered a discussion. My dad really didn't think the guy was that crazy and while the guy was mentally ill and benefited from being in the place, maybe a shrink and drugs would have worked just as well. There was mental institute a couple of blocks from my house, it was scary place, and years later when I went back it had but shut down. I think that is a good thing.

Institutionalizing people long term is bloody expensive and pretty brutal. Maybe the pendulum has swung too far. However, the shooter was mentally ill, and receiving treatment, he was also adult and AFAIK had no history of violent actions. I suspect most camgirls have received some scary emails/tweets making some pretty horrible threats. It seems hard to separate the garden variety trolls, from the mentally unstable guys acting out, vs those who are genuinely dangerous. It sure doesn't take much work to find some crazy and scary youtube videos, or tumblr rants. If we started locking up everyone who posted one we'd have to reopen a lot of institutions.

Jolene is right, prison is the new pysch ward. While this is far from ideal, a crazy person who ends up in prison has generally shown themselves to be a danger to society, in rare cases they get mental health treatment. One of the consequences of allowing mental ill people to be part of society while hopefully getting treatment, is that occasionally a person instead of progressing from being angry, to assault, while skip all the way to mass murder.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

This was definitely not a chaotic, unpredictable act of violence.

I bet if you talk to any shrink who deals with severely mentally ill patient he could give dozens if not hundreds of example of his patient that expressed anger and rage against woman, but never actually did anything. Hell I know I've heard a dozen guys and few woman rage about their ex including wanting to kill them, none have. Good luck predicting which ones will.

 

[JoleneBrody]

The biggest issue with institutionalizing people that I was talking about is that their just isn't very many institutions left. Most of them were shut down, and the few that remain are nearly impossible to get into. :/

But yeah, it's hard enough to just get a doctors referral to see another type of doctor!

 

[Nordling]

His therapists/parents should have decided to commit him to a psych ward.

A bulk of society seems to be under the impression that this is actually easy to do. Trust me from very very personal experience, it's not! Not even the tiniest little bit and that is a HUGE part of the problem in this country. Prison is the new psych ward.

Which is kind of a two edged sword. Decades ago, all you needed was a couple signatures to get someone committed...and sometimes it had nothing to do with sanity but rather to gain control of someone's assets. The pendulum swings too wide.

It certainly isn't easy and I don't think that making it hard to commit somebody is a bad thing. I have a vivid childhood (7) memory of my dad being really shook up because one of his work colleagues was committed to a mental institution, the funny farm is what we use to call them in the days before PC. They took the guy from his house and put him in a straitjacket. He spent many months in the place, and when got released he described being subject to electric shock therapy. Which he described as being the most horrific pain imaginable. (I understand it is also effective at times). Many years latter we watched the great One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest and that triggered a discussion. My dad really didn't think the guy was that crazy and while the guy was mentally ill and benefited from being in the place, maybe a shrink and drugs would have worked just as well. There was mental institute a couple of blocks from my house, it was scary place, and years later when I went back it had but shut down. I think that is a good thing.

Institutionalizing people long term is bloody expensive and pretty brutal. Maybe the pendulum has swung too far. However, the shooter was mentally ill, and receiving treatment, he was also adult and AFAIK had no history of violent actions. I suspect most camgirls have received some scary emails/tweets making some pretty horrible threats. It seems hard to separate the garden variety trolls, from the mentally unstable guys acting out, vs those who are genuinely dangerous. It sure doesn't take much work to find some crazy and scary youtube videos, or tumblr rants. If we started locking up everyone who posted one we'd have to reopen a lot of institutions.

Jolene is right, prison is the new pysch ward. While this is far from ideal, a crazy person who ends up in prison has generally shown themselves to be a danger to society, in rare cases they get mental health treatment. One of the consequences of allowing mental ill people to be part of society while hopefully getting treatment, is that occasionally a person instead of progressing from being angry, to assault, while skip all the way to mass murder.

This rings a bell with me also. Prior to me being born, one of my uncles, while 18, asked his mom to get him help...he was doing strange things like burning his clothes, etc. So, after I became old enough to be aware of things, I remember semi-annual visits to the "funny farm" to visit him...he was kept in the same institution that was the model for Ken Kesey's novel "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest...for approximately 25 years.

When he finally was released he was a shadow of a human; mostly sitting quietly and staring into space...and as far as we knew, he wasn't ever a danger to others before being sent to the asylum. I would hope that nowadays, he'd get outpatient care much earlier.

You are correct in that we have no way of predicting absolutely when someone is about to snap--we can only hope that psychology will improve.

 

[Nordling]

One thing I'm sure of...wannabe politicians should just STFU when it comes to tragedies that they don't have any real sympathy for...here Joe the Plumber weighs in with his septic tank mentality.

 

[eclipse76]

Hey look, it happened again.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/26/p ... -with-him/

Since none of the shots hit anyone, I'm going out on a limb and suggest the douches in this story were more terrorists than murderers. I do hope they catch them and throw away the key no matter their motive.

I mean.... was UCSB guy not a terrorist? he wanted to kill women to punish them, even though he ended up killing more men than women, which was obviously not his goal

he wanted to put us in concentration camps, and survey over us "like a god", watching us starve
i consider that to be pretty terroristic?

and yes I am very glad that the guy in that article didn't hit anyone with his shots, you're totally right about that

No, killing "successful"l men was also his objective, he was a racist and a misanthrope, it's no mistake.

 

[Nordling]

Another view:

Let's call the Isla Vista killings what they were: misogynist extremism

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifesty...-killings-what-they-were-misogynist-extremism

 

[SaraXLive]

Possibly unpopular opinion: I was reading an article the other day written by an animal lover who was making a point that some dogs just cannot be rehabilitated after showing violence and SHOULD be put down... I thought of that when I saw that this was a thing, and felt pretty OK that he did not survive this.

 

[MrRodry]

This was definitely not a chaotic, unpredictable act of violence.

I bet if you talk to any shrink who deals with severely mentally ill patient he could give dozens if not hundreds of example of his patient that expressed anger and rage against woman, but never actually did anything. Hell I know I've heard a dozen guys and few woman rage about their ex including wanting to kill them, none have. Good luck predicting which ones will.

He did "something". The videos, the ones that made the police knock on his door just to ask if he was suicidal, and before that he bought 3 semi-automatic handguns and 400 rounds of ammunition at a local gun store.

 

[JoleneBrody]

This was definitely not a chaotic, unpredictable act of violence.

I bet if you talk to any shrink who deals with severely mentally ill patient he could give dozens if not hundreds of example of his patient that expressed anger and rage against woman, but never actually did anything. Hell I know I've heard a dozen guys and few woman rage about their ex including wanting to kill them, none have. Good luck predicting which ones will.

He did "something". The videos, the ones that made the police knock on his door just to ask if he was suicidal, and before that he bought 3 semi-automatic handguns and 400 rounds of ammunition at a local gun store.

If that's not a giant flag being waved feverishly in the air while screaming I AM really going to kill people... I don't know what is.

Also the fact the he refused to actually take the anti-psychotic medication he was prescribed. This is a HUGE problem with the dangerously mentally ill. Most of them do not believe there is anything wrong with them, therefore wont take the meds on there own. This was a key need that institutions addressed, but instead of fixing the flawed system they just basically wiped it out.

I have a family member who has both BPD along with a frontal lobe brain injury. (if you know anything about either of these I'm sure you understand what an awful combination this is)
Getting him help has been nearly impossible, even with health insurance! It took a YEAR (of suicide attempts mind you) to just get the right referral to the right doctor! He desperately needs to be taken somewhere and helped against his will, because he IS dangerous but no one will. Out of the local hodge podge mental illness offices mouth "until he actually hurts himself or someone else, we can't do anything. If he's going to kill himself, he's going to kill himself" :shock:

 

[JickyJuly]

This was definitely not a chaotic, unpredictable act of violence.

I bet if you talk to any shrink who deals with severely mentally ill patient he could give dozens if not hundreds of example of his patient that expressed anger and rage against woman, but never actually did anything. Hell I know I've heard a dozen guys and few woman rage about their ex including wanting to kill them, none have. Good luck predicting which ones will.

He did "something". The videos, the ones that made the police knock on his door just to ask if he was suicidal, and before that he bought 3 semi-automatic handguns and 400 rounds of ammunition at a local gun store.

If that's not a giant flag being waved feverishly in the air while screaming I AM really going to kill people... I don't know what is.

Also the fact the he refused to actually take the anti-psychotic medication he was prescribed. This is a HUGE problem with the dangerously mentally ill. Most of them do not believe there is anything wrong with them, therefore wont take the meds on there own. This was a key need that institutions addressed, but instead of fixing the flawed system they just basically wiped it out.

I have a family member who has both BPD along with a frontal lobe brain injury. (if you know anything about either of these I'm sure you understand what an awful combination this is)
Getting him help has been nearly impossible, even with health insurance! It took a YEAR (of suicide attempts mind you) to just get the right referral to the right doctor! He desperately needs to be taken somewhere and helped against his will, because he IS dangerous but no one will. Out of the local hodge podge mental illness offices mouth "until he actually hurts himself or someone else, we can't do anything. If he's going to kill himself, he's going to kill himself" :shock:

More states should have something like The Baker Act we have in Florida. If police have any reason to believe you might harm yourself or others due to mental illness, they take you to a mental facility to be assessed. Once you're there, they can hold you for up to three days dependent on what medical professionals feel is necessary. Had this dude been in Florida, his danger level might have been properly noted.

 

[Jillybean]

This was definitely not a chaotic, unpredictable act of violence.

I bet if you talk to any shrink who deals with severely mentally ill patient he could give dozens if not hundreds of example of his patient that expressed anger and rage against woman, but never actually did anything. Hell I know I've heard a dozen guys and few woman rage about their ex including wanting to kill them, none have. Good luck predicting which ones will.

He did "something". The videos, the ones that made the police knock on his door just to ask if he was suicidal, and before that he bought 3 semi-automatic handguns and 400 rounds of ammunition at a local gun store.

If that's not a giant flag being waved feverishly in the air while screaming I AM really going to kill people... I don't know what is.

Also the fact the he refused to actually take the anti-psychotic medication he was prescribed. This is a HUGE problem with the dangerously mentally ill. Most of them do not believe there is anything wrong with them, therefore wont take the meds on there own. This was a key need that institutions addressed, but instead of fixing the flawed system they just basically wiped it out.

I have a family member who has both BPD along with a frontal lobe brain injury. (if you know anything about either of these I'm sure you understand what an awful combination this is)
Getting him help has been nearly impossible, even with health insurance! It took a YEAR (of suicide attempts mind you) to just get the right referral to the right doctor! He desperately needs to be taken somewhere and helped against his will, because he IS dangerous but no one will. Out of the local hodge podge mental illness offices mouth "until he actually hurts himself or someone else, we can't do anything. If he's going to kill himself, he's going to kill himself" :shock:

More states should have something like The Baker Act we have in Florida. If police have any reason to believe you might harm yourself or others due to mental illness, they take you to a mental facility to be assessed. Once you're there, they can hold you for up to three days dependent on what medical professionals feel is necessary. Had this dude been in Florida, his danger level might have been properly noted.

... I just learned that other states don't have the Baker act. O_O That's scary.

 

[Nordling]

Very wise law, and kind of ironic that Florida is also a "stand your ground" state.

 

[SexySteph]

If that's not a giant flag being waved feverishly in the air while screaming I AM really going to kill people... I don't know what is.

Also the fact the he refused to actually take the anti-psychotic medication he was prescribed. This is a HUGE problem with the dangerously mentally ill. Most of them do not believe there is anything wrong with them, therefore wont take the meds on there own. This was a key need that institutions addressed, but instead of fixing the flawed system they just basically wiped it out.

I have a family member who has both BPD along with a frontal lobe brain injury. (if you know anything about either of these I'm sure you understand what an awful combination this is)
Getting him help has been nearly impossible, even with health insurance! It took a YEAR (of suicide attempts mind you) to just get the right referral to the right doctor! He desperately needs to be taken somewhere and helped against his will, because he IS dangerous but no one will. Out of the local hodge podge mental illness offices mouth "until he actually hurts himself or someone else, we can't do anything. If he's going to kill himself, he's going to kill himself" :shock:

More states should have something like The Baker Act we have in Florida. If police have any reason to believe you might harm yourself or others due to mental illness, they take you to a mental facility to be assessed. Once you're there, they can hold you for up to three days dependent on what medical professionals feel is necessary. Had this dude been in Florida, his danger level might have been properly noted.

... I just learned that other states don't have the Baker act. O_O That's scary.

It's so frustrating to me. I always thought it was a national thing, but nope, it's just nationally known.

People that are very sick don't know. Yeah, if you're depressed you might be aware and choose to get help on your own but schizophrenic paranoia? Of course you won't get help on your own because you think everyone's against you and it's not you that needs help.

Involuntary institutionalization can be bad, but it can also save lives.

 

[Nordling]

The Peach weighs in.

 

[spankamber]

If that's not a giant flag being waved feverishly in the air while screaming I AM really going to kill people... I don't know what is.

Also the fact the he refused to actually take the anti-psychotic medication he was prescribed. This is a HUGE problem with the dangerously mentally ill. Most of them do not believe there is anything wrong with them, therefore wont take the meds on there own. This was a key need that institutions addressed, but instead of fixing the flawed system they just basically wiped it out.

I have a family member who has both BPD along with a frontal lobe brain injury. (if you know anything about either of these I'm sure you understand what an awful combination this is)
Getting him help has been nearly impossible, even with health insurance! It took a YEAR (of suicide attempts mind you) to just get the right referral to the right doctor! He desperately needs to be taken somewhere and helped against his will, because he IS dangerous but no one will. Out of the local hodge podge mental illness offices mouth "until he actually hurts himself or someone else, we can't do anything. If he's going to kill himself, he's going to kill himself" :shock:

More states should have something like The Baker Act we have in Florida. If police have any reason to believe you might harm yourself or others due to mental illness, they take you to a mental facility to be assessed. Once you're there, they can hold you for up to three days dependent on what medical professionals feel is necessary. Had this dude been in Florida, his danger level might have been properly noted.

... I just learned that other states don't have the Baker act. O_O That's scary.

It's so frustrating to me. I always thought it was a national thing, but nope, it's just nationally known.

People that are very sick don't know. Yeah, if you're depressed you might be aware and choose to get help on your own but schizophrenic paranoia? Of course you won't get help on your own because you think everyone's against you and it's not you that needs help.

Involuntary institutionalization can be bad, but it can also save lives.

My brother was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. He drinks and has become aggressive with my mom esp when he drinks. He is also an alcoholic. She has called the cops on him and they take him to a place called behavior health here in California and hold him for 72 hours. Last time they took him 3 hrs from his home and then released him and he had no money or way to get home. He is also homeless a lot and receives ssi. He also has false ideas if grandiose behavior that he is more special than anyone else and is being tested by people because of his powers. He has never been violent or mentioned violent thoughts to me. I too read the manifesto. It's scary because you never know what the breaking point might be. Elliot Rodgers knew to hide his real violent thoughts until right before his plan.