ACF 2012 Presidential Election Poll

[BullFrogBlues]

So... has anyone heard from Bocefish post-election?

Someone told me his cousin said that his mom said she thinks he moved to Australia.

Oh dear, did anyone explain that we have a female atheist redhead in charge?

and no guns and government based health care.

 

[Bocefish]

Well, I was going to let this thread die now the election is over, but since you asked...

I almost feel bad for Obama, look at the mess he's inherited with nobody else to blame it on this this time.

“I’ve done my share of educating my employees. I never tell them which way to vote. I believe in the free system we have, I believe in the right to choose who they want to be president, but I did explain as a business owner that I have always put my employees first. I always made sure that when I went without a paycheck that made sure they were paid. And I explained that I always put them first and unfortunately I’m at a point where I’m being forced to have to worry about me and my family now and a business that I built from just me to 114 employees.

“I explained to them a month ago that if Obama gets in office that the regulations for Obamacare are gonna hurt our business, and I’m gonna have to make provisions to make sure I have enough money to cover the payroll taxes, the additional health care I’m gonna have to do, and I explained that to them and I said you do what you feel like in your heart you need to do, but I’m just letting you know as a warning this is things I have to think of as a business owner.

“Well unfortunately, and most of my employees are Hispanic — I’m not gonna go into what kind of company I have, but I have mostly Hispanic employees — well unfortunately we know what happened and I can’t wait around anymore, I have to be proactive. I had to lay off 22 people today to make sure that my business is gonna thrive and I’m gonna be around for years to come. I have to build up that nest egg now for the taxes and regulations that are coming my way. Elections do have consequences, but so do choices. A choice you make every day has consequences and you know what, I’ve always put my employees first, but unfortunately today I have to put me and my family first, and you watch what’s gonna happen. I’m just one guy with 114 employees — well was 114 employees — watch what happens in the next six months. The Dow alone lost 314 points today. There’s a tsunami coming and if you didn’t think this election had consequences, just wait.”

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07 ... employees/

That employer is far from alone. Some math about Obamacare... A company can provide an employee's health care at a cost of about $5k or not provide it and pay a $2k TAX and then the employee is required to buy insurance through their state pool.

Or the employer can lower his/her employee's hours to 29 per week or less and not pay for healthcare or a fine.

What do you think companies are going to do with a good chunk of employees when times are tough? Welcome to the new normal of the 29 hour work week or maybe 58 hour work week because people will need to have two jobs.

The IRS has hired some 1600 plus new agents for this MASSIVE new gov't mandate that will make loads of money for lawyers and accountants.

 

[bob]

and believe (in some very real ways, rightly, imo) that government is too big and controlling, and economic and personal freedom is a bond not to be fucked with.....

For sure, but how much more invasive, controlling and anti-personal freedom could you get than telling you who you can marry and whether you can get an abortion :lol:

:thumbleft:

yep....it is pretty much exactly this hypocrisy which made romney's task virtually impossible....but it was still disturbing to me that the popular vote was as close as it was, with that hypocrisy built into the platform of the GOP.

 

[LadyLuna]

Well, I was going to let this thread die now the election is over, but since you asked...

I almost feel bad for Obama, look at the mess he's inherited with nobody else to blame it on this this time.

“I’ve done my share of educating my employees. I never tell them which way to vote. I believe in the free system we have, I believe in the right to choose who they want to be president, but I did explain as a business owner that I have always put my employees first. I always made sure that when I went without a paycheck that made sure they were paid. And I explained that I always put them first and unfortunately I’m at a point where I’m being forced to have to worry about me and my family now and a business that I built from just me to 114 employees.

“I explained to them a month ago that if Obama gets in office that the regulations for Obamacare are gonna hurt our business, and I’m gonna have to make provisions to make sure I have enough money to cover the payroll taxes, the additional health care I’m gonna have to do, and I explained that to them and I said you do what you feel like in your heart you need to do, but I’m just letting you know as a warning this is things I have to think of as a business owner.

“Well unfortunately, and most of my employees are Hispanic — I’m not gonna go into what kind of company I have, but I have mostly Hispanic employees — well unfortunately we know what happened and I can’t wait around anymore, I have to be proactive. I had to lay off 22 people today to make sure that my business is gonna thrive and I’m gonna be around for years to come. I have to build up that nest egg now for the taxes and regulations that are coming my way. Elections do have consequences, but so do choices. A choice you make every day has consequences and you know what, I’ve always put my employees first, but unfortunately today I have to put me and my family first, and you watch what’s gonna happen. I’m just one guy with 114 employees — well was 114 employees — watch what happens in the next six months. The Dow alone lost 314 points today. There’s a tsunami coming and if you didn’t think this election had consequences, just wait.”

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07 ... employees/

That employer is far from alone. Some math about Obamacare... A company can provide an employee's health care at a cost of about $5k or not provide it and pay a $2k TAX and then the employee is required to buy insurance through their state pool.

Or the employer can lower his/her employee's hours to 29 per week or less and not pay for healthcare or a fine.

What do you think companies are going to do with a good chunk of employees when times are tough? Welcome to the new normal of the 29 hour work week or maybe 58 hour work week because people will need to have two jobs.

The IRS has hired some 1600 plus new agents for this MASSIVE new gov't mandate that will make loads of money for lawyers and accountants.

The only reason "Obamacare" works the way it does is because the Republicans refuse to let go of the insurance system.

 

[Bocefish]

Well, I was going to let this thread die now the election is over, but since you asked...

I almost feel bad for Obama, look at the mess he's inherited with nobody else to blame it on this this time.

“I’ve done my share of educating my employees. I never tell them which way to vote. I believe in the free system we have, I believe in the right to choose who they want to be president, but I did explain as a business owner that I have always put my employees first. I always made sure that when I went without a paycheck that made sure they were paid. And I explained that I always put them first and unfortunately I’m at a point where I’m being forced to have to worry about me and my family now and a business that I built from just me to 114 employees.

“I explained to them a month ago that if Obama gets in office that the regulations for Obamacare are gonna hurt our business, and I’m gonna have to make provisions to make sure I have enough money to cover the payroll taxes, the additional health care I’m gonna have to do, and I explained that to them and I said you do what you feel like in your heart you need to do, but I’m just letting you know as a warning this is things I have to think of as a business owner.

“Well unfortunately, and most of my employees are Hispanic — I’m not gonna go into what kind of company I have, but I have mostly Hispanic employees — well unfortunately we know what happened and I can’t wait around anymore, I have to be proactive. I had to lay off 22 people today to make sure that my business is gonna thrive and I’m gonna be around for years to come. I have to build up that nest egg now for the taxes and regulations that are coming my way. Elections do have consequences, but so do choices. A choice you make every day has consequences and you know what, I’ve always put my employees first, but unfortunately today I have to put me and my family first, and you watch what’s gonna happen. I’m just one guy with 114 employees — well was 114 employees — watch what happens in the next six months. The Dow alone lost 314 points today. There’s a tsunami coming and if you didn’t think this election had consequences, just wait.”

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07 ... employees/

That employer is far from alone. Some math about Obamacare... A company can provide an employee's health care at a cost of about $5k or not provide it and pay a $2k TAX and then the employee is required to buy insurance through their state pool.

Or the employer can lower his/her employee's hours to 29 per week or less and not pay for healthcare or a fine.

What do you think companies are going to do with a good chunk of employees when times are tough? Welcome to the new normal of the 29 hour work week or maybe 58 hour work week because people will need to have two jobs.

The IRS has hired some 1600 plus new agents for this MASSIVE new gov't mandate that will make loads of money for lawyers and accountants.

The only reason "Obamacare" works the way it does is because the Republicans refuse to let go of the insurance system.

:lol: That's your reply to everything... it's the Republican's fault.

Does this ring a bell?



How are the Republicans responsible for that?

Every time Dems need an excuse for covering up lies or other bovine excrememt, they blame it on the FOG of something. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Aren't you guys glad that you asked "Where's Bocefish?" :lol:

 

[LadyLuna]

In 1993, the GOP tried to get a health care bill passed. It looks a lot like Obamacare.

More info on the same thing from Politi Fact

If you do a search on the net, you can find tons of articles showing this. I'm trying to find an actual copy of the bill, but the internet wasn't as big back then so it might not exist online.

 

[Candygirl3x]

Hi all,

Most democratic countries have " Free " Medicare... It's not totally free of course but the small percentage it
does cost is nothing compare to what you guy's are paying... You guy's get fucked over and sideways
with all your insurance groups, Pre-existing shit, deny this, deny that.

Most republicans are so full of themselves and scare of change and paying some $$ for universal heatlh...
Even after the Documentary " Sicko " from MM you guy's still don't get it...

All the places that were in that documentary flew over YOUR recession and still have Free Helthcare. I think it's time
to actually open your eyes and realise that even though the USA is a goos place to be MOST of the time.. It's not the
great place it hyped up to be.... Obama is working in the direction to make it better...

Being at war with the rest of the world all the time cost a lot...

 

[Bocefish]

In 1993, the GOP tried to get a health care bill passed. It looks a lot like Obamacare.

More info on the same thing from Politi Fact

If you do a search on the net, you can find tons of articles showing this. I'm trying to find an actual copy of the bill, but the internet wasn't as big back then so it might not exist online.

None of that has anything to with Obamacare's fundamental flaws, the lack of cost controls, its adverse impact on doctors and hospitals, and the fact that, after spending $1.76 trillion, it will still probably leave around 30 million uninsured. Quality of care will go down, prices will go way up, waiting times will be months instead of days...

It doesn't matter one iota what was a previous possibility or idea that never passed, what matters is the reality of what we face now. Blaming Republicans is just another lame excuse.

 

[Just Me]

Well, I was going to let this thread die now the election is over, but since you asked...

I almost feel bad for Obama, look at the mess he's inherited with nobody else to blame it on this this time.

“I’ve done my share of educating my employees. I never tell them which way to vote. I believe in the free system we have, I believe in the right to choose who they want to be president, but I did explain as a business owner that I have always put my employees first. I always made sure that when I went without a paycheck that made sure they were paid. And I explained that I always put them first and unfortunately I’m at a point where I’m being forced to have to worry about me and my family now and a business that I built from just me to 114 employees.

“I explained to them a month ago that if Obama gets in office that the regulations for Obamacare are gonna hurt our business, and I’m gonna have to make provisions to make sure I have enough money to cover the payroll taxes, the additional health care I’m gonna have to do, and I explained that to them and I said you do what you feel like in your heart you need to do, but I’m just letting you know as a warning this is things I have to think of as a business owner.

“Well unfortunately, and most of my employees are Hispanic — I’m not gonna go into what kind of company I have, but I have mostly Hispanic employees — well unfortunately we know what happened and I can’t wait around anymore, I have to be proactive. I had to lay off 22 people today to make sure that my business is gonna thrive and I’m gonna be around for years to come. I have to build up that nest egg now for the taxes and regulations that are coming my way. Elections do have consequences, but so do choices. A choice you make every day has consequences and you know what, I’ve always put my employees first, but unfortunately today I have to put me and my family first, and you watch what’s gonna happen. I’m just one guy with 114 employees — well was 114 employees — watch what happens in the next six months. The Dow alone lost 314 points today. There’s a tsunami coming and if you didn’t think this election had consequences, just wait.”

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07 ... employees/

That employer is far from alone. Some math about Obamacare... A company can provide an employee's health care at a cost of about $5k or not provide it and pay a $2k TAX and then the employee is required to buy insurance through their state pool.

Or the employer can lower his/her employee's hours to 29 per week or less and not pay for healthcare or a fine.

What do you think companies are going to do with a good chunk of employees when times are tough? Welcome to the new normal of the 29 hour work week or maybe 58 hour work week because people will need to have two jobs.

The IRS has hired some 1600 plus new agents for this MASSIVE new gov't mandate that will make loads of money for lawyers and accountants.

Welcome back. Anecdote(s) do not equal data. Especially some anonymous caller to a radio/tv show. Was this supposed small business owner even providing health insurance to his/her employees? If they were, they could save themselves $3k according to your math by just dropping the health insurance and letting the employee go to the market to get their insurance. This is why I do not believe their statement about caring about his employee's. The only way this costs them money is if they were not providing health insurance. Pay them first when they went without a paycheck? Damn right they will, since when should any employee's work be unpaid and they would be in more trouble and have no employee's if they did not pay them. If this was happening their business must not have been doing all that great. The only reason business's hire is when they need more employee's for the work that needs to be done and even then they will try to get away with hiring as little as possible.

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/41...Affordable-Care-Act-for-American-Business.pdf

The too long did not read version:

modeling the effect of Obamacare’s various provisions on employer behavior had the law been in effect in 2012 — found the health care reform law would’ve only impose a modest increase of 2.2 percent on total employer spending. More strikingly, for small businesses of 100 employees or less, total spending would’ve actually decreased by 1.4 percent

 

[Bocefish]

From your own link:

among mid-size businesses (with 101-1000 employees) would costs per person be noticeably higher, largely attributable to those employers not offering coverage today.

The guy had 114 employees and had to lay off 22 just to survive. You think he's the only one who will have to do that?

 

[Tilly]

I don't care if you like Obama or not. This made me smile, and I want you to smile too!



:lol:

 

[Just Me]

From your own link:

among mid-size businesses (with 101-1000 employees) would costs per person be noticeably higher, largely attributable to those employers not offering coverage today.

The guy had 114 employees and had to lay off 22 just to survive. You think he's the only one who will have to do that?

They had to lay off 22 just to survive? Why not 15? That is why I call bullshit on the story. Also, they will have to pay unemployment taxes when those 22 make their claims for unemployment. Smart business move there. Pay a tax now to avoid something that has not even taken effect yet.

For businesses of 101 to 1,000 employees, overall spending would increase 9.5 percent, mainly due to expanded enrollment. For businesses over 1,000 employees, the increase would be 4.3 percent. In both cases, those increases fall on larger firms more capable of absorbing the costs.

 

[Just Me]

From your own link:

among mid-size businesses (with 101-1000 employees) would costs per person be noticeably higher, largely attributable to those employers not offering coverage today.

The guy had 114 employees and had to lay off 22 just to survive. You think he's the only one who will have to do that?

They had to lay off 22 just to survive? Why not 15? That is why I call bullshit on the story. Also, they will have to pay unemployment taxes when those 22 make their claims for unemployment. Smart business move there. Pay a tax now to avoid something that has not even taken effect yet.

For businesses of 101 to 1,000 employees, overall spending would increase 9.5 percent, mainly due to expanded enrollment. For businesses over 1,000 employees, the increase would be 4.3 percent. In both cases, those increases fall on larger firms more capable of absorbing the costs.

Federal and state unemployment tax is something businesses have to pay regardless. It's a set payroll tax. I pay both state and federal unemployment taxes and I only employ myself.

Just pointing that out...carry on!!

While this is true, the amount goes up based on how many claims you get.

 

[Bocefish]

From your own link:

among mid-size businesses (with 101-1000 employees) would costs per person be noticeably higher, largely attributable to those employers not offering coverage today.

The guy had 114 employees and had to lay off 22 just to survive. You think he's the only one who will have to do that?

They had to lay off 22 just to survive? Why not 15? That is why I call bullshit on the story. Also, they will have to pay unemployment taxes when those 22 make their claims for unemployment. Smart business move there. Pay a tax now to avoid something that has not even taken effect yet.

For businesses of 101 to 1,000 employees, overall spending would increase 9.5 percent, mainly due to expanded enrollment. For businesses over 1,000 employees, the increase would be 4.3 percent. In both cases, those increases fall on larger firms more capable of absorbing the costs.

Screw the larger firms too, they can afford it! Penalize success, hinder growth and give more handouts to lowlifes that scam the system. Really encourages people to work hard for success.

 

[Just Me]

From your own link:

among mid-size businesses (with 101-1000 employees) would costs per person be noticeably higher, largely attributable to those employers not offering coverage today.

The guy had 114 employees and had to lay off 22 just to survive. You think he's the only one who will have to do that?

They had to lay off 22 just to survive? Why not 15? That is why I call bullshit on the story. Also, they will have to pay unemployment taxes when those 22 make their claims for unemployment. Smart business move there. Pay a tax now to avoid something that has not even taken effect yet.

For businesses of 101 to 1,000 employees, overall spending would increase 9.5 percent, mainly due to expanded enrollment. For businesses over 1,000 employees, the increase would be 4.3 percent. In both cases, those increases fall on larger firms more capable of absorbing the costs.

Screw the larger firms too, they can afford it! Penalize success, hinder growth and give more handouts to lowlifes that scam the system. Really encourages people to work hard for success.

Cheer up Republicans Personally, President Obama does not lean far enough left in many areas for my tastes. He could have done so much more with the ACA.

 

[Bocefish]

Personally, President Obama does not lean far enough left in many areas for my tastes. He could have done so much more with the ACA.

Such as?

 

[Just Me]

Personally, President Obama does not lean far enough left in many areas for my tastes. He could have done so much more with the ACA.

Such as?

Single payer or a public option.

 

[Jupiter551]

Boce, any response to this post? I thought it was right on the money and am disappointed you apparently avoided answering it.

Hi all,

Most democratic countries have " Free " Medicare... It's not totally free of course but the small percentage it
does cost is nothing compare to what you guy's are paying... You guy's get fucked over and sideways
with all your insurance groups, Pre-existing shit, deny this, deny that.

Most republicans are so full of themselves and scare of change and paying some $$ for universal heatlh...
Even after the Documentary " Sicko " from MM you guy's still don't get it...

All the places that were in that documentary flew over YOUR recession and still have Free Helthcare. I think it's time
to actually open your eyes and realise that even though the USA is a goos place to be MOST of the time.. It's not the
great place it hyped up to be.... Obama is working in the direction to make it better...

Being at war with the rest of the world all the time cost a lot...

 

[Bocefish]

Boce, any response to this post? I thought it was right on the money and am disappointed you apparently avoided answering it.

Hi all,

Most democratic countries have " Free " Medicare... It's not totally free of course but the small percentage it
does cost is nothing compare to what you guy's are paying... You guy's get fucked over and sideways
with all your insurance groups, Pre-existing shit, deny this, deny that.

Most republicans are so full of themselves and scare of change and paying some $$ for universal heatlh...
Even after the Documentary " Sicko " from MM you guy's still don't get it...

All the places that were in that documentary flew over YOUR recession and still have Free Helthcare. I think it's time
to actually open your eyes and realise that even though the USA is a goos place to be MOST of the time.. It's not the
great place it hyped up to be.... Obama is working in the direction to make it better...

Being at war with the rest of the world all the time cost a lot...

Michael Moore is a sicko slob. There are plenty of arguments like why people fly to America to have surgery and so on but that would just be more bickering back and forth. There is no doubt the U.S. healthcare system needs overhauling, but forcing Obamacare upon us is not the way. I would suggest appointing a special committee comprised of specialists in their fields along with some of the best economists and accountants and give them 2 years to study all the healthcare systems world wide and come up with the best options for the people to vote upon.

 

[SoTxBob]

Since its done.. This seems like it would fit now....

 

[Shaun__]

In 1993, the GOP tried to get a health care bill passed. It looks a lot like Obamacare.

More info on the same thing from Politi Fact

If you do a search on the net, you can find tons of articles showing this. I'm trying to find an actual copy of the bill, but the internet wasn't as big back then so it might not exist online.

I posted this earlier in the Ron Paul thread. Are these the bills what you were looking for?

The individual mandate is a Republic ideal, and no matter how many childlike tantrums they throw, this will never change. It must have been a terrible feeling when Obama started supporting this thing they like, forcing them to flip flop on the issue.


Republican bills with mandates in them for health insurance.

Nov. 20, 1993 Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)

"Subtitle C: Employer Provisions - Requires employers to: (1) withhold health insurance premiums from employee wages and remit such premiums to the employee's chosen insurer; and (2) notify employees of their right to claim an advance refundable tax credit for such premiums."

Nov. 23, 1993 Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743)

"Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005. Provides an exception for any individual who is opposed for religious reasons to health plan coverage, including those who rely on healing using spiritual means through prayer alone."

Jan. 18, 2007 Healthy Americans Act (SB 334)

"Healthy Americans Act - Requires each adult individual to have the opportunity to purchase a Healthy Americans Private Insurance Plan (HAPI). Makes individuals who are not enrolled in another specified health plan and who are not opposed to coverage for religious reasons responsible for enrolling themselves and their dependent children in a HAPI plan offered through their state of residence. Sets forth penalties for failure to enroll."

Feb. 5, 2009 Healthy Americans Act (SB 391)

Healthy Americans Act - Requires each adult individual to have the opportunity to purchase a Healthy Americans Private Insurance Plan (HAPI), which is: (1) a plan offered by a state; or (2) an employer-sponsored health coverage plan. Makes individuals who are not enrolled in another specified health plan and who are not opposed to coverage for religious reasons responsible for enrolling themselves and their dependent children in a HAPI plan offered through their state of residence. Sets forth penalties for failure to enroll."

 

[mynameisbob84]

Not sure if this was posted or not but 'tis pretty awesome.

 

[Nordling]

Rachel is amazing. She's probably the smartest talker on air today.

 

[Nordling]

The Six Best Overreactions to the Election:

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/11/08/1162601/obama-win-freakouts/

 

[BullFrogBlues]

Some of the tweets of people wanting to move to Australia if Obama wins

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/37-pe ... ralia-if-o

 

[RedHerby]

some more US President Elections aftermath info ...

http://www.floatingsheep.org/2012/11/ma ... se-to.html

 

[Candygirl3x]

I think this is a good representation why I'm glad to think of myself has
a democrat even though I'm Canadian... This Vid is all that is wrong with America Today

Candy xxxx

 

[Kradek]

By all means, lets characterize 50 million people on the basis of 395 tweets. Clearly the democractic party supports the assassination of Romney or rioting if he won.

 

[Bocefish]

I think this is a good representation why I'm glad to think of myself has
a democrat even though I'm Canadian... This Vid is all that is wrong with America Today

Candy xxxx

So you're more like these Democrats?



How many places have you personally been to in America to be so judgemental? What makes you such an authority on what is wrong with America?

There are plenty of idiots on all sides of the political spectrum.