ACF 2012 Presidential Election Poll

[Nordling]

Same as with the chart for the word thread, chart of post counts, threshold for EveryoneElse on this one is 10 I believe.

What I learned from this is Boce, Jup & Nord should get a room! :3some:

err no, if you look closely Boce and Nordling have about the same number so they get a room, then I share a room with "everyone else"

Eh, no thanks. I'll give you my "credits" and you can have the honor.


:mrgreen:

 

[Mirra]

That chart makes me suddenly feel a bit better about my contributions to this thread. Also, Bocefish + Nordling + Jupiter is almost 50% of the thread. :lol:

 

[schlmoe]

I feel pretty good with my place on the chart and the people around me there

Right next to my buddy Mr. Rodry! :thumbleft: (of course, he may not feel the same way :mrgreen: )

 

[Bocefish]

“Well, ‘Don't Ask, Don't Tell’ is back - not for gays in the military. It's President Obama's new policy for questions about Libya. Don't ask, don't tell." - Jay Leno

 

[Mirra]

I'm giving up on this thread again. Election day is close enough. I can make it til then this time. No one is going to convince anyone of anything regarding who they will/would vote for, and certain people seem to be more concerned with posting stuff to get a reaction than to actually discuss or inform.

 

[Bocefish]

certain people seem to be more concerned with posting stuff to get a reaction than to actually discuss or inform.

No doubt you mean me... my previous post was rather informative IMO, YMMV. Judge Jeanine stated the facts and asked questions.

Did you know what the elite special forces think about Obama?

 

[BullFrogBlues]

Did you know what the elite special forces think about Obama?

No I don't, all that you show is what four former special ops officers want. By your reasoning if 4 former ACF members did the same thing that is what ACF members want.

 

[schlmoe]

Did you know what the elite special forces think about Obama?

No I don't, all that you show is what four former special ops officers want. By your reasoning if 4 former ACF members did the same thing that is what ACF members want.

The way I read it, it's former SpecOps officers from all 4 branches...not 4 ex-officers.

That being said, your logic is still correct. An endorsement from anybody is just words. It would be ludicrous to cast your vote solely on such a narrow issue such as "military special operations", as that would be their only area of expertise. Yes, they can have their opinion as citizens, but it should not carry any extra weight because they are "formerly" anything.

For all we know, they are "former" SpecOps because they were kicked out. You just don't know. Information matters, not endorsements from any special interest groups :twocents-02cents:

 

[Bocefish]

Did you know what the elite special forces think about Obama?

No I don't, all that you show is what four former special ops officers want. By your reasoning if 4 former ACF members did the same thing that is what ACF members want.

The way I read it, it's former SpecOps officers from all 4 branches...not 4 ex-officers.

That being said, your logic is still correct. An endorsement from anybody is just words. It would be ludicrous to cast your vote solely on such a narrow issue such as "military special operations", as that would be their only area of expertise. Yes, they can have their opinion as citizens, but it should not carry any extra weight because they are "formerly" anything.

For all we know, they are "former" SpecOps because they were kicked out. You just don't know. Information matters, not endorsements from any special interest groups :twocents-02cents:

Read more...

 

[schlmoe]

Read more...

***I was not suggesting that the group you linked were a bunch rouge nut-cases, I was just thinking out loud because we truly do not know what their motivations are (or any other "endorsements").

I appreciate the link, but BFB's logic is still correct, and I still stand by what I said about any endorsements.

Be informed, and vote how your conscience dictates. That's all any of us can do

 

[Bocefish]

Be informed, and vote how your conscience dictates. That's all any of us can do

:thumbleft:

 

[MrRodry]

I feel pretty good with my place on the chart and the people around me there

Right next to my buddy Mr. Rodry! :thumbleft: (of course, he may not feel the same way :mrgreen: )

---
Leaving this topic too. Keep your eyes open and go vote.

 

[Jupiter551]

Read more...

***I was not suggesting that the group you linked were a bunch rouge nut-cases, I was just thinking out loud because we truly do not know what their motivations are (or any other "endorsements").

I appreciate the link, but BFB's logic is still correct, and I still stand by what I said about any endorsements.

Be informed, and vote how your conscience dictates. That's all any of us can do

The guy's a former veteran and that's great, but I don't see in that article that it actually has anything solid other than his asssertion that 'they' (as if they all work with a single thought btw) want Obama out.
Just look at it in context, okay he WAS a Navy officer four years ago, but NOW he's a republican senator and he's speaking out, and was speaking to military, AS a republican senator, with republican party views and what he says is coloured by that to some degree.
He is also well aware that he could simply say he has met with devgru members since he left and they say the president is a fucking pink cloud with a unicorn horn and you know what response devgru would publicly give is? Zero.

 

[Bocefish]

Read more...

***I was not suggesting that the group you linked were a bunch rouge nut-cases, I was just thinking out loud because we truly do not know what their motivations are (or any other "endorsements").

I appreciate the link, but BFB's logic is still correct, and I still stand by what I said about any endorsements.

Be informed, and vote how your conscience dictates. That's all any of us can do

The guy's a former veteran and that's great, but I don't see in that article that it actually has anything solid other than his asssertion that 'they' (as if they all work with a single thought btw) want Obama out.
Just look at it in context, okay he WAS a Navy officer four years ago, but NOW he's a republican senator and he's speaking out, and was speaking to military, AS a republican senator, with republican party views and what he says is coloured by that to some degree.
He is also well aware that he could simply say he has met with devgru members since he left and they say the president is a fucking pink cloud with a unicorn horn and you know what response devgru would publicly give is? Zero.

Ok, I even tried a Google search for Spec Ops are Pro Obama just to see if I could find anything close to anyone supporting Obama. Take the Spec Ops information however you see it. This is how they see it.

 

[Shaun__]

Why do all people tied to politics seem to have a shady past? Is it a requirement?

An election year battle between liberal and conservative veteran groups over President Barack Obama's national security record has taken a nasty turn, with a prominent pro-Obama group VetPAC raising questions about the service record of Ryan Zinke, a former Navy SEAL who is chairman of an anti-Obama group.

“It’s Swift Boat Veterans all over again,” retired colonel Dick Klass, vice-president of VetPAC, told BuzzFeed. “It’s some guys being used, they are trolling for money among the Boone Pickens and Koch Brothers.”

Zinke, who started Special Operations for America PAC last month, is a Montana State Senator. In June, he lost his primary bid to be the state's lieutenant governor.

“We heard some things about this founder,” Klass continued, referring to Zinke. “If a guy has had two combat tours and retired as a lieutenant commander, he did not have a brilliant career.”

Klass, a former Air Force pilot with over 500 combat hours, is referring to claims by former military officials — who declined to be quoted on the record — that Zinke left the Navy SEALs acrimoniously after being accused of improprieties surrounding his travel reports in the late ‘90s.

“There were ethics issues around his travel,” a former Navy SEAL and senior Defense Department official told BuzzFeed. “He was using government travel to visit his home in Montana. He got caught. That’s why he left the SEALs.”

Zinke did not contest the allegation, but suggested that the travel dispute is hardly major a blot on his service record.

 

[Jupiter551]

Read more...

***I was not suggesting that the group you linked were a bunch rouge nut-cases, I was just thinking out loud because we truly do not know what their motivations are (or any other "endorsements").

I appreciate the link, but BFB's logic is still correct, and I still stand by what I said about any endorsements.

Be informed, and vote how your conscience dictates. That's all any of us can do

The guy's a former veteran and that's great, but I don't see in that article that it actually has anything solid other than his asssertion that 'they' (as if they all work with a single thought btw) want Obama out.
Just look at it in context, okay he WAS a Navy officer four years ago, but NOW he's a republican senator and he's speaking out, and was speaking to military, AS a republican senator, with republican party views and what he says is coloured by that to some degree.
He is also well aware that he could simply say he has met with devgru members since he left and they say the president is a fucking pink cloud with a unicorn horn and you know what response devgru would publicly give is? Zero.

Ok, I even tried a Google search for Spec Ops are Pro Obama just to see if I could find anything close to anyone supporting Obama. Take the Spec Ops information however you see it. This is how they see it.

Aren't active military under orders not to comment on political stuff? These guys are likely to be more tight lipped than most...

 

[Bocefish]

Aren't active military under orders not to comment on political stuff?

They're not exactly orders, more like guidelines which is why the public usually only hears from veterans. Active duty can express personal opinions but not as a military representative. They can't wear military uniforms to political events...

Guidelines PDF

 

[Jupiter551]

Well I looked through a bunch of those articles that say "SEALs are mad at obama" etc, there's nothing from any actually currently serving letalone "seal team six" members - basically it has no sources so it has no credibility. Course there's "former SEALs" all over the place willing to give their 2c for a buck or a favour, but imo the operators who took down Osama are too busy being devgru badasses and doing what they do to be giving newspaper interviews or caring about political ads on tv :twocents-02cents:

 

[Bocefish]

Well I looked through a bunch of those articles that say "SEALs are mad at obama" etc, there's nothing from any actually currently serving letalone "seal team six" members - basically it has no sources so it has no credibility. Course there's "former SEALs" all over the place willing to give their 2c for a buck or a favour, but imo the operators who took down Osama are too busy being devgru badasses and doing what they do to be giving newspaper interviews or caring about political ads on tv :twocents-02cents:

No credibility? Only Obama supporters can be that blind.

Seal Team Six member involved in the raid:

Some SEALs resent Obama for taking credit
The author makes an effort to praise "the president for green-lighting the risky assault," says Marcus Baram at The Huffington Post, even though Bissonnette says that "none of us were huge fans of Obama." The SEALs didn't like that the president took credit for the raid. "I can see him now, talking about how he killed bin Laden," Bissonnette quotes another SEAL as saying. "We all knew the deal," Bissonnette says. "We were tools in the toolbox, and when things go well they promote it. They inflate their roles." Still, he says, "regardless of the politics that would come along with it, the end result was what we all wanted."

http://theweek.com/article/index/232598 ... laden-book

Bold and underlined portion is PC speak for saying they pretty much despised him. Of course, Obama supporters probably read that as a glowing endorsement. :lol:

 

[WildFingers]

Sorry this is still a point that needs to be thought of prior to your voting. Here is a youtube video that pretty much explains my feelings. http://youtu.be/JEhvF8b8Mrg.

I don't like dealing in plumbing issues. I prefer to pay someone else to deal with the excrement, You would think that a plumbing business would be recession proof.

 

[Shaun__]

I wonder why someone would break the code of silence to write a tell all book?

The former Navy SEALs member who is a co-author of a first-person account of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden was willing to break “the code of silence” honored by many commandos because of “bad blood” with his former unit, the elite SEAL Team 6, according to a new e-book written by other Special Operations veterans.
The e-book says the author, Matt Bissonnette, who wrote the book “No Easy Day” under the pseudonym Mark Owen, was effectively pushed out of SEAL Team 6 after he expressed interest last year in leaving the Navy and starting a business. Upset at how he had been treated, Mr. Bissonnette felt less compunction about writing a book that he knew might upset colleagues, the e-book authors say.

 

[Bocefish]

Sorry this is still a point that needs to be thought of prior to your voting. Here is a youtube video that pretty much explains my feelings. http://youtu.be/[/s]JEhvF8b8Mrg[s][s].

I don't like dealing in plumbing issues. I prefer to pay someone else to deal with the excrement, You would think that a plumbing business would be recession proof.

FIFY



Future reference... all you need to do is copy everything after the http://youtu.be/ then paste it (JEhvF8b8Mrg), highlight it, then go up to the top of text box and click on the youtube rectangle and voila.

It will end up looking like this without the spaces inside the brackets [ youtube]JEhvF8b8Mrg[ /youtube]

 

[WildFingers]

Oh, like this edumacation is a great thing Thank you

 

[Bocefish]

What are your feelings on the CANDIDATES since this thread is actually suppose to be about the Presidential election.

I believe Romney will help the economy grow far better than Obumble ever could because Romney knows business and what businesses want and need to thrive. He'll provide that much needed leadership and stability that has been lacking under Obama, make it safe for business expansion, reduce taxes, take positive steps towards balancing the budget and use common sense regulations. Under Obama, small business has been paralyzed because they don't know what the taxes are going to be, they don't know what the regulations on them will be because Obama is clueless, he's shown zero leadership or stability, so they sit idle. Romney will provide that leadership and stabilization because he knows what the needs of small businesses are instead of some narcissistic community organizer that thinks he's the best thing since sliced cheese. When there's stability AND confidence in the future, people and businesses will once again begin to invest and grow. Romney is a job creator, Obama is a jobs killer and government grower. Obama's grandiose trillion dollar investment of shovel ready jobs really worked out well, didn't it. How about his $528 million loan to Solyndra and the more recent bankruptcy of A123 which is yet another failure for the president’s disastrous gambling away billions of taxpayer dollars on a strategy of government-led growth under Obama that simply does not work.

Romney made his plan for the future clear and his past accomplishments are solid. Obama's campaign leadership plan consisted of negative ads, opponent bashing, then scrambling two weeks before the election to make a 20 page pamphlet mostly consisting of pictures of himself and the same old generic rhetoric, that's Obama's leadership.

 

[Shaun__]

What are your feelings on the CANDIDATES since this thread is actually suppose to be about the Presidential election.

I believe Romney will help the economy grow far better than Obumble ever could because Romney knows business and what businesses want and need to thrive. He'll provide that much needed leadership and stability that has been lacking under Obama, make it safe for business expansion, reduce taxes, take positive steps towards balancing the budget and use common sense regulations. Under Obama, small business has been paralyzed because they don't know what the taxes are going to be, they don't know what the regulations on them will be because Obama is clueless, he's shown zero leadership or stability, so they sit idle. Romney will provide that leadership and stabilization because he knows what the needs of small businesses are instead of some narcissistic community organizer that thinks he's the best thing since sliced cheese. When there's stability AND confidence in the future, people and businesses will once again begin to invest and grow. Romney is a job creator, Obama is a jobs killer and government grower. Obama's grandiose trillion dollar investment of shovel ready jobs really worked out well, didn't it. How about his $528 million loan to Solyndra and the more recent bankruptcy of A123 which is yet another failure for the president’s disastrous gambling away billions of taxpayer dollars on a strategy of government-led growth under Obama that simply does not work.

Romney made his plan for the future clear and his past accomplishments are solid. Obama's campaign leadership plan consisted of negative ads, opponent bashing, then scrambling two weeks before the election to make a 20 page pamphlet mostly consisting of pictures of himself and the same old generic rhetoric, that's Obama's leadership.

If people think that Obama guy sucks at business they should hear about this Mitt guy. Dude had to get millions of tax payer dollars to save his company, a huge chunk of which was never repaid, and his leadership resulted in a 22% failure rate. I would hate to put my future in his incompetent hands.

 

[Jupiter551]

The SEALs are not happy with Bissonnette and his book. Fox News quoted one SEAL saying “How do we tell our guys to stay quiet when this guy won’t?” Other accounts have members of the SEALs going as far as calling him a “traitor.”

SEALs were reportedly upset at the white house talking so openly about the raid because it could expose operational tactics etc that might get SEALs killed. That was before one of them wrote a book on it without getting it checked to see if there was anything sensitive or classified that should be taken out. This guy, despite his service record, is using this to make a buck which is despicable. Anyone who's ever worked for the government knows they sign papers when they leave agreeing not to discuss anything they've done on the job without prior clearance. You really, REALLY think a DEVGRU member is going to be exempt from talking candidly about this? REALLY??

DEVGRU, aka SEAL Team 6 as they were known like 15 years ago, is one of the most secretive counter-terrorism teams your country has. They don't make a habit of going around blabbing to press. To do so would not only be career suicide (unless you're leaving anyway like the gentleman above) but put other soldiers at risk.

This is a political stunt, nothing more. Obama has never "taken credit" for it, he has praised the SEALs for their valour and courage many, many times. He took credit for making the decision to run the op on what was admitted to be sketchy intelligence - that's all. It was a gutsy move because do you think for one second if the operation had spectacularly failed somehow the SEALs would have taken the blame? Lol no.

Remember Operation Eagle Claw? Jimmy Carter ordered a military mission to free the hostages in the Iranian embassy, 1980? Carter losing the presidency is widely considered to be attributed in large part to the public debacle over the failed mission. Obama would have been very much aware of that, and he had the courage to make the decision to go ahead with it. Even you would admit that losing the Presidency of the United States over a decision qualifies as great risk. Saying that it was a risk for him to order it is NOT the same as saying if a SEAL died on the mission it would be more terrible for Obama more than the soldier's family. See the difference?

Obama deserves some credit for assessing the situation and giving the go-ahead, because the fallout if it failed would have wiped him out, and that's all the credit he took. The rest is just republican swift-boating. Which, btw, is politicising the risks taken by the soldiers just as you're accusing Obama of doing.

But really, since you only want to hear from what Spec Ops personnel think about it, let's hear from the former SEAL, current head of USSOCOM, who commanded the mission:

 

[LadyLuna]

What a person wants is not always what the person needs.

Mitt Romney knows what the people who own the businesses want. Unfortunately, what the people who own the businesses want is to keep all the money, and let no one else have any. if they succeed in getting what they want, all the money will be locked in with a few individuals and no one else will have anything to spend on anything. Thus, businesses will shrink, and the economy will collapse even further, because the short-sighted businessmen still don't understand that when you take away the money of the middle class, there is no more demand for the products.

IF I had the money, I'd be spending thousands a year on Barnes and Nobles, Boarders, movie stores, video games, anime, and a few hundred a year on clothes. Since I don't have the money, I can't do that. Thus, the demand that I might have if I had even a middle-class income doesn't exist in the market.

Multiply the $5,000 in spending money that I don't have a year by the roughly 5 million people who could have middle-class jobs if the jobs existed, and you have a pretty damn good reason to focus on middle-class growth. A $25 billion dollar reason.

 

[Jupiter551]

What a person wants is not always what the person needs.

Mitt Romney knows what the people who own the businesses want. Unfortunately, what the people who own the businesses want is to keep all the money, and let no one else have any. if they succeed in getting what they want, all the money will be locked in with a few individuals and no one else will have anything to spend on anything. Thus, businesses will shrink, and the economy will collapse even further, because the short-sighted businessmen still don't understand that when you take away the money of the middle class, there is no more demand for the products.

IF I had the money, I'd be spending thousands a year on Barnes and Nobles, Boarders, movie stores, video games, anime, and a few hundred a year on clothes. Since I don't have the money, I can't do that. Thus, the demand that I might have if I had even a middle-class income doesn't exist in the market.

Multiply the $5,000 in spending money that I don't have a year by the roughly 5 million people who could have middle-class jobs if the jobs existed, and you have a pretty damn good reason to focus on middle-class growth. A $25 billion dollar reason.

I agree, over here every year when the budget is announced all the news channels and newspapers focus on "what's in it for YOU" - I actually don't care to pore over the details seeing if my tax will be cut $5 per week, because the budget isn't meant to be done for ME to "get" something, or my neighbour, or the Jones's down the street, it's meant to be for the good of the nation.

I hope someday I'll see some kind of election where people don't vote based on ME ME ME, then hopefully we can stop seeing government time and money wasted handing out voter bribes like tax breaks and stuff when there's failing hospitals, schools, roads. I doubt it, but I can hope.

 

[Bocefish]

What a person wants is not always what the person needs.

Mitt Romney knows what the people who own the businesses want. Unfortunately, what the people who own the businesses want is to keep all the money, and let no one else have any. if they succeed in getting what they want, all the money will be locked in with a few individuals and no one else will have anything to spend on anything. Thus, businesses will shrink, and the economy will collapse even further, because the short-sighted businessmen still don't understand that when you take away the money of the middle class, there is no more demand for the products.

IF I had the money, I'd be spending thousands a year on Barnes and Nobles, Boarders, movie stores, video games, anime, and a few hundred a year on clothes. Since I don't have the money, I can't do that. Thus, the demand that I might have if I had even a middle-class income doesn't exist in the market.

Multiply the $5,000 in spending money that I don't have a year by the roughly 5 million people who could have middle-class jobs if the jobs existed, and you have a pretty damn good reason to focus on middle-class growth. A $25 billion dollar reason.

I agree, over here every year when the budget is announced all the news channels and newspapers focus on "what's in it for YOU" - I actually don't care to pore over the details seeing if my tax will be cut $5 per week, because the budget isn't meant to be done for ME to "get" something, or my neighbour, or the Jones's down the street, it's meant to be for the good of the nation.

I hope someday I'll see some kind of election where people don't vote based on ME ME ME, then hopefully we can stop seeing government time and money wasted handing out voter bribes like tax breaks and stuff when there's failing hospitals, schools, roads. I doubt it, but I can hope.

It sounds like y'all would rather live in a socialist country.

You guys need to watch this again.



Obama has led the worst recovery since WW2.

 

[Bocefish]

The SEALs are not happy with Bissonnette and his book. Fox News quoted one SEAL saying “How do we tell our guys to stay quiet when this guy won’t?” Other accounts have members of the SEALs going as far as calling him a “traitor.”

SEALs were reportedly upset at the white house talking so openly about the raid because it could expose operational tactics etc that might get SEALs killed. That was before one of them wrote a book on it without getting it checked to see if there was anything sensitive or classified that should be taken out. This guy, despite his service record, is using this to make a buck which is despicable. Anyone who's ever worked for the government knows they sign papers when they leave agreeing not to discuss anything they've done on the job without prior clearance. You really, REALLY think a DEVGRU member is going to be exempt from talking candidly about this? REALLY??

The whole point of the discussion was what SpecOps think about Obama, which is pretty clear by now.