Zimmerman Trial About To Commence

[Anonymous]

I had posted a thread about Marissa Alexander on here a while back. Yes, a 20-year sentence for firing a shot at the wall (no injuries at all) is INSANE. It only took 12 minutes for the jury to find her guilty.....

 

[mynameisbob84]

And that just adds to it, the reason why Zimmerman isn't receiving any punishment is because he killed the kid. Moral of the story: no survivors

Never mind the surviving, would he have instigated the whole thing and put himself in that situation in the first place if he wasn't packing heat? There's no responsibility or accountability that he needs to take for any of the choices he made that night and I think that's unfortunate.

It also sets a pretty dangerous precedent. Next time some idiot decides to rid the streets of "crime" (or someone who has the wrong coloured skin), all they need to do is come armed and provoke that person. The second that person retaliates, they now have carte blanche to shoot them dead.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justice/zimmerman-it-firing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2#cnn-disqus-area

Interesting article

Kruidbos testified before Zimmerman's trial began that Martin's cell phone contained images of Martin blowing smoke, images of marijuana and deleted text messages regarding a transaction for a firearm and that those images had not been given to Zimmerman's defense team.

 

[Nordling]

I had posted a thread about Marissa Alexander on here a while back. Yes, a 20-year sentence for firing a shot at the wall (no injuries at all) is INSANE. It only took 12 minutes for the jury to find her guilty.....

Marissa Harris-Perry mentioned Marissa Alexander after the verdict. She's a scary smart lady.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/07/14/why-...-sentence-despite-invoking-stand-your-ground/

"20 years for shooting a ceiling." Florida has bizarre laws about guns. If you fire a gun while committing any type of crime, the sentence goes up beyond the pale, but if you kill someone with a gun, it's fine.

 

[bawksy]

People are currently marching from Times Square in NYC towards Harlem. Live video stream here:

http://www.vice.com/read/live-streaming-trayvon-martin-protests-in-new-york

People seem to be behaving so far. It's a mixed racial crowd, heavy on the black as to be expected, but still diverse.

10:26 PM EDT they just made it to 52nd street.

10:39 PM EDT now passing east 61st street

 

[Anonymous]

People are currently marching from Times Square in NYC towards Harlem. Live video stream here:

http://www.vice.com/read/live-streaming-trayvon-martin-protests-in-new-york

People seem to be behaving so far.

Yeah, other than the trolls in the comments section shouting racial slurs...people seem to be behaving themselves.

Someone in the comments section made a MyFreeCams reference...that was kinda funny. They said something like "3,500 people? There's more than that on MyFreeCams." Lol.

 

[bawksy]

Cops, who had been passively observing and walking with the protesters for about 15 minutes now, just decided to interfere. It looks like they're trying to block them from going down a certain street. This is about to get interesting...

Multiple arrests, at least 8 so far

It appears the cops just want people to stay on the sidewalk so they don't disrupt traffic. They don't appear to be sending people home.

They're on east 71st street now


The video I've been watching is apparently not live. I'm a bit behind so my times are probably stale by 30 mins or so?


Now that I'm on the live video, the arrest count is up to at least 14

 

[Red7227]

 

[AdamAdamant]

I have seen the injuries that George Zimmerman had, I still do not believe that him shooting a unarmed teenager was proportionate. I really think he should have been charged with something. I cannot help but to be offended at the white privilege sentiment on tumblr. Then again I am not sure if I am in a place where I can really comment, so I just left it alone.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

My friends have received worse injuries rough housing *shrug*

 

[AdamAdamant]

For lack of better word "injuries" I probably should have been more clear on. Like I said before the situation did not warrant lethal force.

 

[bawksy]

Like I said before the situation did not warrant lethal force.

That's your opinion. It's not the opinion of 6 jurors who actually listened to all the evidence the prosecution and defense had to offer. Did you watch the entire trial? Or just the biased media reports and short clips?

The thing about self-defense laws (at least those in Florida) is that you don't actually have to sustain life threatening injuries before you are allowed to defend yourself. You just have to reasonably believe that you are going to suffer serious injuries or die. There is also no requirement that you have to defend yourself with equal force.

It's important the laws are this worded way. If a drugged out psycho is charging at me with a knife saying he's going to kill me, I don't want to have to wait to get stabbed 15 times before I shoot him. Can you imagine thinking, in a stressful situation like that, that you better get stabbed at least a few times or else the jury might not believe you? Or, (TW), in a rape situation, having to wait for the rapist to jizz inside you first before you bash him on the head with a rock, so that there's proof to the jury?

 

[RedHerby]

I was so surprised by the verdict that I started to read about it recently, below article did help me to understand it a bit.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...tin-and-the-irony-of-american-justice/277782/

yeah, yeah, I'm a white european lefty who believes that lots of white USA folks are gun-loving racists

On a seriouse note, this forum did teach me more about normal USA folks then all media together before

 

[Kradek]

On a seriouse note, this forum did teach me more about normal USA folks then all media together before

By normal do you mean people that agree with you? Denizens of this forum lean pretty hard to the left. You don't have to look farther than the last election to know about half the country leans the other way.

 

[Bocefish]

Zimmerman Prosecutor Angela Corey Criminally Indicted By Citizens' Grand Jury For Allegedly Falsifying Arrest Warrant And Complaint

OCALA, Fla., July 2, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Florida State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.

The indictment of Corey, which was handed down last week (see http://www.citizensgrandjury.com), charges Corey with intentionally withholding photographic evidence of the injuries to George Zimmerman's head in the warrant she allegedly rushed to issue under oath, in an effort to boost her reelection prospects. At the outset of this case, black activists such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who whipped up wrath against Zimmerman, demanded that he be charged with murder, after local police had thus far declined to arrest him pending investigation.

Following Corey's criminal complaint charging Zimmerman, legal experts such as Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz condemned her for falsely signing an arrest affidavit under oath, which intentionally omitted exculpatory evidence consisting of the photographs showing the injuries Zimmerman sustained, and rushing to charge him with second degree murder under political pressure. Dershowitz called her actions unethical and themselves crimes (http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop ... -1.1080161).

Larry Klayman, a former U.S. Justice Department prosecutor, a Florida lawyer since 1977, and now the "citizens' prosecutor" who presided over the Ocala grand jury said this: "The Supreme Court has confirmed that the grand jury belongs to the American people, not the three branches of government. (504 U.S. 36, 48 (1992) (quoting United States v. R. Enterprises, Inc., 498 U.S. 292, 297 (1991)). By indicting Florida State Attorney Angela Corey, the people are exercising their God given rights, recognized by our Founding Fathers, to mete out justice when the political and legal establishment subverts the rule of law. Hopefully, this indictment will serve as a warning to the political and legal establishment that they are not above the law. Ironically, Corey will now be tried and likely convicted for her alleged crimes – which resulted in Zimmerman being charged under false pretenses, now coming home to roost during Zimmerman's on-going trial. Corruption cannot be tolerated, particularly by law enforcement officers who are elected by the people to serve their ends, not the law enforcement officer's political ends."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/zimmerman ... 00903.html

 

[bawksy]

Citizens' Grand Juries are not a real thing. That article would not even be news-worthy except for the fact that it does bring up good points about wrongdoing committed by Angela Corey. I do hope they file a bar complaint against her, as that type of complaint actually means something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_grand_jury


In other news about the news, today the White House said that the Justice Department investigation into possible civil rights violations would NOT be political and would have no influence from Obama. Then CNN makes this bullshit sub-headline (circle added by me):

 

[Bocefish]

From what I understand, the only reason to bring a civil suit would be for money Trayvon may have made and left to them. There would be no jail time even if the Martin's won the civil suit which the FBI couldn't find any evidence for after interviewing some 36 people familiar with him and the situation. The Homeowners Assoc. has already paid the Martins over a $1 million dollars IIRC, so I really don't see the point other than a political one.

 

[bawksy]

I just want to point out that despite the shared word, a "civil lawsuit" is quite different than a "federal civil rights criminal prosecution". The family of Trayvon Martin will likely engage in the former, which would be all about money, and the feds are investigating whether the latter is appropriate, which would be all about Zimmerman going to jail for breaking federal laws.

Is that true about the settlement from the gated community HOA? That's horseshit that the HOA's insurance company caved like that. They should have waited until after the criminal trial before considering a settlement.

 

[Bocefish]

Is that true about the settlement from the gated community HOA? That's horseshit that the HOA's insurance company caved like that. They should have waited until after the criminal trial before considering a settlement.

They rejected the initial offering of $1 million, so it is assumed it was well over a mil.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -zimmerman

Trayvon Martin's parents settle wrongful-death claim
Homeowners association is thought to have paid more than $1 million
April 5, 2013|By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
SANFORD — Trayvon Martin's parents have settled a wrongful-death claim for an amount thought to be more than $1 million against the homeowners association of the Sanford subdivision where their teenage son was killed.

 

[bawksy]

I am currently watching Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN live right now. They are interviewing a Zimmerman juror. Stay tuned for updates.

"The doctor who the defense called" is the witness who had the most impact on this juror. He apparently had military experience. Defense medical examiner. Don't know his name exactly yet.

She found prosecution witness, lead investigator Chris Serino (spelling) to be a credible witness. She says he was doing his job and was going to tell the truth to whoever asked the question. (If you remember, this guy's testimony seemed to aid the defense more than the prosecution)

The "Lauer" (spelling?) 911 tape was the most significant because it was the most comprehensive.

Who's voice do you think was on the 911 call? "I think it was George Zimmerman's." Did everyone on the jury agree with you? "All but one person".

She firmly believes Trayvon was on top due to a certain eyewitness I missed the name of

Again she confirms without a doubt in her opinion George Zimmerman's voice was on the 911 call.

Commenting on Rachel Jeantel (the fat black chick) was not a good witness. "What did you think of the phrase creepy ass cracker?" "I think it was probably the truth. Trayvon probably said that. I don't think it was racial; I just think it was every day life. The type of life they live and the environment they live in."

So you don't find Rachel Jeantel credible? "No"

Commercial break

 

[SweepTheLeg]

The thing about self-defense laws (at least those in Florida) is that you don't actually have to sustain life threatening injuries before you are allowed to defend yourself. You just have to reasonably believe that you are going to suffer serious injuries or die. There is also no requirement that you have to defend yourself with equal force.

It's important the laws are this worded way. If a drugged out psycho is charging at me with a knife saying he's going to kill me, I don't want to have to wait to get stabbed 15 times before I shoot him. Can you imagine thinking, in a stressful situation like that, that you better get stabbed at least a few times or else the jury might not believe you? Or, (TW), in a rape situation, having to wait for the rapist to jizz inside you first before you bash him on the head with a rock, so that there's proof to the jury?

I'd agree with that, but trayvon was neither high on crack, or trying to rape zimmerman, nor was he armed and out seeking trouble. His actions when seeing some guy that wasn't a cop with a gun coming after him were just as much self defense as anything.

 

[bawksy]

I'd agree with that, but trayvon was neither high on crack, or trying to rape zimmerman, nor was he armed and out seeking trouble. His actions when seeing some guy that wasn't a cop with a gun coming after him were just as much self defense as anything.

There is no evidence to support that Zimmerman "came at" Martin. If there was, you'd be absolutely right. The nonviolent following of Martin does not count as evidence of provoking the fight.

Also, the gun was concealed. If the gun was not concealed, Trayvon Martin certainly wouldn't have been dumb enough to engage in a fist fight with George Zimmerman.

It's further important to note that the carrying of a gun by a non-cop is not illegal in this situation (had a license to carry) and should not, by itself, be considered a threat. No evidence was presented to support that Zimmerman initiated violence or threats of violence, using his gun or otherwise. Because there is no evidence that Zimmerman had illegally brandished his weapon or otherwise acted illegally in any way, the fact of Zimmerman carrying a gun does not affect the facts of this case in any way.

If evidence had been presented that George Zimmerman was brandishing his weapon in a threatening way, I would absolutely agree that Trayvon Martin had a right to defend himself. However, the facts of the case do not support this theory.

 

[bawksy]

Back to the CNN AC360 interview with juror B37.

Asking her now about her opinion of George Zimmerman.

"I think George Zimmerman was a man whose heart was in the right place, but got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhood, and he went above and beyond..." (couldn't keep up at that point but something about GZ's actions being misplaced but not illegal)


Do you think he's guilty of something? "I think he's guilty of not using good judgement. He should not have gotten out of the car. But the 911 operator sort of egged him to get out of the car. He should have said 'STAY IN THE CAR' [...]"



"I think he has every right to carry a gun" [...] "as long as he is responsible with it"

How important were the tapes of GZ's walkthru of the crime scene with cops? "Not very important. GZ was pretty consistent and told the truth. There were some fabrications and exaggerations, but it pretty much happened the way GZ said it."


This one for Sweep The Leg: "I am not convinced that Trayvon Martin knew that George Zimmerman had a gun".

So you believe that GZ really believed his life was in danger? "Yes"

So you believe Trayvon Martin threw the first punch "Yes I do"

So based on the testimony you heard, you feel Trayvon Martin was the aggressor? "I feel the rules changed. GZ got in too deep, but then Trayvon decided he wasn't going to let GZ scare him. Then Trayvon got mad and attacked him"


"Parents will say anything to protect their child"

So you think both sets of parents cancelled each other out? "Yes"


How important was the cry for help. "I think it was pretty important." ... "Whoever made that call for help was clearly in fear for their life"


Do you feel that GZ racially profiled Trayvon Martin? "I don't think he did." (bunch of elaboration on prior crimes in the neighborhood giving GZ reasonable suspicion, but thought GZ would treat a suspicious hispanic or white boy the same way)

She's talking about how GZ's description of how Trayvon was acting suspicious was reasonable. Looking in windows and shit.

She does NOT think race had ANYTHING to do with the case.

"He profiled ANYBODY that came in acting strange."


You didn't buy the prosecution when they said George Zimmerman was a wannabe cop? "No, I didn't believe that at all."

"He was frustrated and things just got out of hand"


Are you worried that GZ is going to get his gun back? "No" "I think he would be more responsible than anyone else on this planet right now."

Commercial break

 

[bawksy]

Back from commercial break on CNN's AC360

What happened in the jury room? (spent the first day getting organized) (nominated a foreman) (one person speaking at a time) (on the first day got all the evidence on the table and on the walls)

There was an initial vote on the first day. Results:
-3 not guilty
-1 2nd degree murder
-2 manslaughter

(B37 voted not guilty in that initial vote)

(They listened to all the tapes 5 times)

(They looked at EVERYTHING, that's why it took so long. Then they started looking at the law to guide them on how to decide the case.) "The law was VERY confusing" (too many things in the instructions.)

(After reading through the law, they got 2nd degree murder off the table rather quick and got it down to manslaughter, then sent the question to the judge.)

(Investigated GZ's mindset leading up to the crime, to see if he had intended to murder TM)

Do you feel like you understood the instructions from the judge? "And that was our problem. I mean, it was just SO confusing, with what, and what we could apply to what. There was a couple of [jurors] in there who wanted to find him guilty of SOMETHING"

"After reading the law for hours and hours and hours, we realized there was no other way to go." "If he felt he was going to suffer bodily harm, he had a RIGHT"

Even though he got out of the car? As long as GZ felt he was in danger? "That's how we read the law"

"I have NO DOUBT George feared for his life."

(She is crying now) "It's a tragedy this happened. But it happened. They are both responsible for the situation they got themselves into. They both could have walked away"

commercial break

 

[bawksy]

Back from commercial break.

In that jury room, what was that emotionally like? (after they reached a verdict). "We were crying" .... "It was hard, thinking that somebody lost their life. There's nothing else that could be done about it."

"It's still very emotional" ... "just sad that we all had to come together and figure out what is going to happen to this man's life afterwards. We find him not guilty, and we're responsible for that not guilty, and all those people that want him guilty are not going to feel any closure"

"I feel sorry for both of them"

Did you realize how big this trial had become? "I had no clue" "I didn't see it as a racial thing. I saw it as a 2nd degree murder case. It was just unbelievable that it had gotten so big and so emotional for everybody involved."

Are you scared now? "I'm not scared, but I want to be cautious."

Why did you want to speak? "I want people to know that we put everything into everything to get this verdict" ... "We thought about it for hours and cried about it afterwards."

end of interview

This juror that just gave the interview is the one who has a book deal

CNN did not pay for this interview

P.S. That's the only time in history you'll ever see me quadruple post

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I didn't realize how big this case had become, but I've decided to write a book about it.

 

[bawksy]

Someone put the interview on Youtube. Catch it before it gets taken down.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Find it interesting how her husband is a lawyer.

Also she said that what Serino had to say made a big impression on her when the Judge had that struck from the record.

"Is George Zimmerman someone you'd want on the neighborhood watch in your community?" If he doesn't go too far. Uhhhhh

 

[Nordling]

I know she didn't mean it that way but I was amused when she said, "I really haven't been following the trial."

I'm sure she meant "case." But still a lol.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Maybe she DID mean trial.