lol indeed, I'm done as well as long as you stop making things up and trying to put words in my mouth.Violet October said:lololol. and done with this part. super useless side step in conversation. Back to the real shit.
lol indeed, I'm done as well as long as you stop making things up and trying to put words in my mouth.Violet October said:lololol. and done with this part. super useless side step in conversation. Back to the real shit.
SexyStephXS said:I don't think feminists want standards lowered. They just want women allowed to be there. They're not saying "I know that a man is required to do xyz for a strength test but for us you should lower it to pqr" they're saying "if a woman can also pass the standard of xyz why can't she get the job". If the industries are lowering standards so that they can fit a quot and prove they're being "equal" they're the ones makin the mistakes.
As for child rearing, I'd love to see the studies.
I didn't spend the money to read the whole study.The greatest percentage of single fathers gained custody of children as the result of parental divorce. Single fathers are more likely to gain custody of children when mothers have either chosen not to retain custody or are perceived to be incompetent. Single fathers are more likely to have custody of older rather than younger children and of boys rather than girls. By and large, the challenges for single fathers and single mothers are similar and include the difficulties of combining parenting responsibilities and employment, and economic disadvantage
On average, single fathers have higher standards of living than do single mothers, which decreases potential stresses within the family. Yet single mothers have been reported to have warmer and more structured relationships with their children than do single fathers. Several studies have indicated that once economic factors are taken into account, children from single-mother families fare better than children from single-father families. Such differences may be accounted for by these parenting differences or by the aforementioned differences in the circumstances surrounding the father custody arrangement.
Read more: Single-Parent Families - Single Fathers Compared To Single Mothers - Children, Custody, Parenting, and Differences - JRank Articles http://social.jrank.org/pages/581/Singl ... z3AKE2LLqJ
HiGirlsRHot said:I think on average woman are more nurturing than men especially with children. Perhaps it is just having to get carry the kid around in for 9 months creates a deeper bond with that child. The bond means that they are more willing to put the needs of the child ahead of their own needs of their kids, which is why men abandon kids at higher rate than woman.
If I could thank this a million times, I would. People who like to ignore the fact that our biological makeup accounts for SO much of our psychologies. And women, imo, are even more susceptible to their biological makeup then men are. Which is NOT A BAD THING. Just a fact. A fact that people like to ignore.But I think we are kidding ourselves if we don't belief that part of this is millions of years of biological evolution.
PunkInDrublic said:^Hey Violet, if I try to get back in the conversation are you going to continue to make things up and then just respond with "lol moving on" if I call you on your bullshit? Not trying to be a dick here but I don't want to get involved if it means I'm just going to be misunderstood/have people put words in my mouth.
PunkInDrublic said:^Hey Violet, if I try to get back in the conversation are you going to continue to make things up and then just respond with "lol moving on" if I call you on your bullshit? Not trying to be a dick here but I don't want to get involved if it means I'm just going to be misunderstood/have people put words in my mouth.
Whoa hold on, why do that? That is the internet equivalent of someone sticking his fingers in his ears and sticking out his tongue at you. Put me on ignore because you don't like me, find me annoying, etc. Don't put me on ignore as a favor to me. I don't think ignoring people that don't agree with everything you say is a good move but you can't read this so I'm not sure why I'm bothering. Ah well, moving on.Violet October said:I now have you on ignore anyways. So I won't see or respond. So you can chat with others.
I’m gonna add to this listLaughingLux said:I'm disappointed when I read:
-Some people's opinions and assumptions when they are almost completely built around stereotypes.
-HUGE generalizations about a certain aspect of a topic, still drenched in stereotypes.
-People making an argument on their singular experience about a situation or topic while basically saying other women's experiences 'don't count' because it's not the same for them personally.
So I'm super defensive and you think I'm beating a dead horse by trying to stick up for myself, kinda shitty of you. Don't care if you think I'm beating a dead horse, not just going to let someone try to speak for me or make things up. I'm sure you will think I'm beating a dead horse by posting this and even I will admit I am but I don't care. Post another gif, won't add anything of value to the topic or help anyone understand anything but you will get a bunch of thanks! Imagine the outrage if a dude here posted that gif when a model was trying to stick up for herself or get an explanation, shits funny. Alright, felt good to get that off my chest. Way too much drama in this thread and I don't want to add anymore to it so I'm just going to read and hopefully not have to try to defend myself anymore.caireen said:
I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.JJasione said:And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.
PlayboyMegan said:I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.JJasione said:And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.
I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."SexyStephXS said:PlayboyMegan said:I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.JJasione said:And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.
That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.
Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).
PlayboyMegan said:I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."SexyStephXS said:PlayboyMegan said:I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.JJasione said:And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.
That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.
Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).
PlayboyMegan said:I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."SexyStephXS said:PlayboyMegan said:I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.JJasione said:And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.
That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.
Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).
I don't agree with that.SexyStephXS said:PlayboyMegan said:I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."SexyStephXS said:PlayboyMegan said:I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.JJasione said:And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.
That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.
Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).
Traditional roles do put women under men. In the sense that the traditional roles expect men to be able to say "I want a sandwich and a martini" and his wife is supposed to leap up and deliver. Traditional roles expect a woman to be entirely happy living for someone else. Traditional roles mean the man is the dominant of the house and the woman is the submissive.
Traditional roles =/= domestic roles
PlayboyMegan said:I don't agree with that.
There are plenty of stay at home mothers who aren't expected to be slaves to their husbands. Further more, some women WANT to be submissive and enjoy making sandwiches for their husband. I don't believe making that choice puts you under a man in anyway. He provides you with a house, you provide him with meals, that seems equal in my eyes.
SexyStephXS said:PlayboyMegan said:I don't agree with that.
There are plenty of stay at home mothers who aren't expected to be slaves to their husbands. Further more, some women WANT to be submissive and enjoy making sandwiches for their husband. I don't believe making that choice puts you under a man in anyway. He provides you with a house, you provide him with meals, that seems equal in my eyes.
I clearly said traditional roles =/= domestic roles. Traditional roles are like... What you see on Mad Men. Domestic roles are being a caretaker of a household and the children, or whatever, regardless of what your gender is.
When it's a choice, it's fine, when it's done out of expectation because not doing so would make you "less of a woman" then it's not okay.
GemmaMoore said:SexyStephXS said:PlayboyMegan said:I don't agree with that.
There are plenty of stay at home mothers who aren't expected to be slaves to their husbands. Further more, some women WANT to be submissive and enjoy making sandwiches for their husband. I don't believe making that choice puts you under a man in anyway. He provides you with a house, you provide him with meals, that seems equal in my eyes.
I clearly said traditional roles =/= domestic roles. Traditional roles are like... What you see on Mad Men. Domestic roles are being a caretaker of a household and the children, or whatever, regardless of what your gender is.
When it's a choice, it's fine, when it's done out of expectation because not doing so would make you "less of a woman" then it's not okay.
Yes, but this is actually worse for men, if we're talking about expectations/traditional roles.
So the woman is expected to stay home, cook the meals, take care of the children and the household. Maybe do some volunteer work, make friends with the other housewives, do the shopping, etc. Okay, fine.
But the man is expected to go out and do absolutely whatever it takes to provide financial support. So in a old-school traditional household if there wasn't enough money to go around, the man would be forced to take a second or third job just to fulfill his obligation to his family/keep his social standing in the community. He's expected not to show emotions ('real men don't cry'), to 'take things like a man', and always be strong and stoic. He's also expected to have a social life, to be active in the community, to be a leader of the family, handle the finances, maintain the lawn/exterior of the house, and keep up appearances at all costs.
If we're talking about inequality, men kind of get the short end of the stick here. I'm not saying that both genders don't have their issues, but men don't seem to be listened too as much when it comes to the same issues. And they DO face some of the same issues as women, along with ones that are gender-specific. Men are just as much victims in this society as women - They are raped, they have body image issues/eating disorders, they have issues getting custody of children, are judged on how 'manly' they are, etc.
GemmaMoore said:But the man is expected to go out and do absolutely whatever it takes to provide financial support. So in a old-school traditional household if there wasn't enough money to go around, the man would be forced to take a second or third job just to fulfill his obligation to his family
SexyStephXS said:We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.
GemmaMoore said:SexyStephXS said:We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.
I almost never see modern feminists talking about men's issues. Actual feminism at its core does, yes; but the new-wave feminists generally ignore or even deny that these are men's issues as well, or that feminists should be fighting for male issues. Thus why you get hashtags such as the one in the thread title where women want to distance themselves from the notion of 'feminism' entirely. It's almost become a militant term in the social consciousness, and it's now being viewed askance by both genders (and for good reason in its present form.)
Yea, but I think Gemma is right about that not being the majority.SexyStephXS said:GemmaMoore said:SexyStephXS said:We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.
I almost never see modern feminists talking about men's issues. Actual feminism at its core does, yes; but the new-wave feminists generally ignore or even deny that these are men's issues as well, or that feminists should be fighting for male issues. Thus why you get hashtags such as the one in the thread title where women want to distance themselves from the notion of 'feminism' entirely. It's almost become a militant term in the social consciousness, and it's now being viewed askance by both genders (and for good reason in its present form.)
I guess I have a skewed view because I graduated with a degree in women's studies so the last 5 years of my life was spent discussing men and women's issues, defining feminism and engaging in social activism but my experience of feminism, and the feminism that occurred in my department, was very concerned with both genders.
JJasione said:I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).
She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.
I agree 100% with this. There are massive societal problems in much of Africa especially for woman. In the Middle East the problems woman face are truly horrendous and are starting to rival those faced by oppressed groups under fascism and communism. I had have a lot more respect for feminism if their spent more of their time speaking out against these problems and less of their time trying to make sure that 50% of the Congress or CEO were woman.The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world.
They do. They lose their hymen. :lol:HiGirlsRHot said:JJasione said:I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).
She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.
"Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves"
PlayboyMegan said:They do. They lose their hymen. :lol:HiGirlsRHot said:JJasione said:I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).
She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.
"Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves"
I don't think most schools teach that you lose a part of yourself when you have sex. But slut shaming is so relevant in society from people of all ages and the vast majority only inflict their shaming solely on women.
Yes, and for anyone to believe it doesn't happen any more in the US, I invite them to spend five minutes in ANY cam model's chat room and read the garbage coming off the fingertips of the "modern American male."PlayboyMegan said:They do. They lose their hymen. :lol:HiGirlsRHot said:JJasione said:I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).
She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.
"Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves"
I don't think most schools teach that you lose a part of yourself when you have sex. But slut shaming is so relevant in society from people of all ages and the vast majority only inflict their shaming solely on women.