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Who would you vote for?

  • Donald Trump

  • Hillary Clinton

  • Bernie Sanders

  • Gary Johnson (Libertarian Party)

  • Jill Stein (Green Party)

  • Other

  • None


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So it's just coincidence that white people have most of the power in the US and has nothing to do with systematic racism?

I am saying that these problems are not because of some imaginary white man purposely keeping everybody down.

I'll put it this way. Some little girl's education is suffering because her teachers, keep holding sickouts, because the principal is stealing money out of the school funds... and she isn't getting what she deserves.

And then someone else goes and tells her it's because..."racism" please tell me what that accomplishes?Now you might even have hate in the heart of a child that did not need it, as well as not noticed the teacher and the principle. That is all I'm trying to say. That is my biggest beef with this whole thing.
 
So it's just coincidence that white people have most of the power in the US and has nothing to do with systematic racism?

Well, Whites make up 63% of the population so it isn't exactly a shock that they do. Here in Hawaii, where Whites make up 25% of the population, Japanese, the largest ethnicity, control most of the power.
You find the same thing going on in much of the southwest, when most of the population is Hispanic, you find a lot of mayors, councilmen who are Hispanic. Maybe its racism but doesn't seem to be just confined to whites. Maybe it is a simple as people feel more comfortable voting for people they can identify with. Likewise in cities with where African American have most the largest populations they generally also control most of the power. One of the things that struck me about the Freddy Grey incident in Baltimore, is that mayor, police chief, DA, Judge, the most senior cop,the majority of the cops, and the victim were all African American. Now the cops may have done something wrong, although the juries seem to disagree, but if you were looking for an example of cops are being racist you'd have to say there are lot of black cops who are racist.

But maybe this discussion is better in the black live matter rather than a Presidential election thread.
 
Well, Whites make up 63% of the population so it isn't exactly a shock that they do.

I don't think the sheer numbers of white people really explains it though. Consider this:

Among racial and ethnic groups, African Americans had the highest poverty rate, 27.4 percent, followed by Hispanics at 26.6 percent and whites at 9.9 percent.
source

@LuckySmiles Doesn't this show that race is as much (or more) of an issue than power = corruption?
 
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Yes, why would having a majority cause you to want to be a racist? lol People are racists/bigots because of their upbringing...mostly...and it's something that needs to stop.
 
Oh, gotcha. One anecdote > general trends in the US.

lol what... you're telling me everything is because of systemic racism and that is "the real problem" and I'm giving you an example of corruption of power being the problem...

I could bring 100 more examples of corrupted power hurting people in all different aspects of society and all different permutations of ethnicities, including white positions of power over others... does it make one bit of difference?

no it does not.
 
lol what... you're telling me everything is because of systemic racism and that is "the real problem" and I'm giving you an example of corruption of power being the problem...

I could bring 100 more examples of corrupted power hurting people in all different aspects of society and all different permutations of ethnicities, including white positions of power over others... does it make one bit of difference?

no it does not.
They are BOTH the problem. I never once argued that corruption is not a problem, but you on the other hand have argued that racism isn't.
 
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I believe she's speaking of systematic racism rather than simple discrimination. Because yes, someone might hate a white person for being white or harass a white person for their skin color but it's entirely different from systematic racism which is the real problem.

Then I am misreading this. I also never once dismissed racism, but it is a secondary issue(if that high up), not a primary issue.
 
I guess what I'm looking for is somebody to make the affirmative case for what Donald Trump will do as President that's good, without comparing him to Hillary Clinton.
shit in one hand, as the saying goes...
 
I guess what I'm looking for is somebody to make the affirmative case for what Donald Trump will do as President that's good, without comparing him to Hillary Clinton. And extra credit if you can link to some statements/proposal that he said that you think would solve some of the countries problems.

If your reason for supporting Trump is because he's not Hillary, as I said earlier that's fine I understand it. Hillary is a pretty awful candidate. But some of the Trump supporters on the thread sound pretty positive about the guy, and I don't understand why.

1) The Wall: this will help solve many problems. First, the unemployment rate for unqualified workers: all the companies that now get away with hiring illegal immigrant labor will have to pony up and hire american citizens, pay them at least minimum wage, and stop engaging in their brand of light slavery. Second, it will help stop the drug crisis some states have been suffering when the supply lines for heroin, cocaine and the like are cut. Third, it will make America safer from crime and violence from mexican drug cartels and other garden variety criminals that cross the border into the US.

2) No more meddling: Donald Trump has promised that he will not engage in a war unless it is absolutely mandatory, he will renegotiate all the aid the US is spending globally so that you stop spending your hard earned tax money in countries that offer nothing back. He even said he would let Japan have an army again so that the US no longer has to protect them, etc. The money the US will save from renegotiating shitty deals and cutting back on global aid will help balance the budget, but also, you no longer will send your husbands and adult children to pointless wars in far away lands. And I didn't want to make this a "so much better than Hill" post, but you do have to consider that Hillary Clinton is the polar opposite as she has her donors interests in mind and war is always a profitable business for them.

3) Flat tax plan: finally someone that will make it easier for everyone to do their taxes. It is likely that your taxes will be lowered too unless you are in the financial sector. This will make it easier for people to create a company and apply themselves since they no longer need to hire an accountant to help them file taxes and will be paying less overall. This has the potential to help create jobs and start family businesses in America.

4) No tolerance for terrorism: Donald Trump is the only candidate that promised he would put a moratorium on all muslim immigration and/or tourism from the Middle East or other countries known to be having terrorism problems until he figures out a way to vet them. He also has talked about a plan for keeping an eye on mosques to see what they are teaching and if any of them are seen to be involved with terrorist groups or receiving funding from them they will be closed. This will help keep America safe from terrorism.

5) Fighting China on trade: he will fix the trade deals with China so that american companies stop moving their production there and go back to the US to hire american workers, he will make them stop manipulating currency to have an upper hand, and stop making american companies share their proprietary technology just to get access to the Chinese market.

There are a lot of things that Trump was the only candidate to bring to the table. He was the first to put the finger on some of the problems and to identify the solutions to them. Things that the other candidates wouldn't even dare to mention for fear of upsetting their donnors.

So it's just coincidence that white people have most of the power in the US and has nothing to do with systematic racism?

White people have most of the power in the US because it is a country built by white people.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/trumpism-could-be-more-da_b_11756020.html
Not a big fan of HuffPo, but I like this article.
1) The Wall: this will help solve many problems..
The employment issue is huge. Something should have been done long ago.
The drug crisis is also huge, but the crisis is the Drug War itself.
Say a wall will help keep criminals out, and I will say a big moat around the US will keep Cuban criminals out.

Even if a wall is the answer (either metaphorical or physical), the idea that Trump is the one to handle it is preposterous. Trump's expertise lies not in problem solving, but in self-aggrandizement.
2) No more meddling: Donald Trump has promised...
Donald "Bozo" Trump has promised a lot of shit. He's that guy that comes into chat rooms talking about all the tokens you might get if you pay attention to him.
3) Flat tax plan: finally someone that will make it easier for everyone to do their taxes...
I'm going to pull an Ann Coulter move here. She supposedly said she would be fine ending the Drug War if there was no welfare (or words to that effect).

Well I am ok with a flat tax, if we completely sever the bonds between money and political power in the US. If we can't do that, I want an oppressively progressive tax structure.
4) No tolerance for terrorism: Donald Trump is the only candidate that promised he would put a moratorium on all muslim immigration and/or tourism from the Middle East or other countries known to be having terrorism problems until he figures out a way to vet them. He also has talked about a plan for keeping an eye on mosques to see what they are teaching and if any of them are seen to be involved with terrorist groups or receiving funding from them they will be closed. This will help keep America safe from terrorism.
This ought to send shivers up and down peoples spine. For one thing, it lays bare the bigotry and ignorance that the Trumpites are oblivious to. For another thing, it equates keeping America safe with giving power to a goon like Trump, and then waiting for a solution to fall out of this...

Donald-Trump_3372655k.jpg

5) Fighting China on trade: he will fix the trade deals with China so that american companies stop moving their production there and go back to the US to hire american workers, he will make them stop manipulating currency to have an upper hand, and stop making american companies share their proprietary technology just to get access to the Chinese market.
I don't know what to make of China. So complicated, read so many different sides to it I just don't know. What I do know is, I wouldn't trust Trump to unstop a toilet with a plunger, much less steer us through a trade war with China.
There are a lot of things that Trump was the only candidate to bring to the table. He was the first to put the finger on some of the problems and to identify the solutions to them. Things that the other candidates wouldn't even dare to mention for fear of upsetting their donnors.
You have been had.
 
I am saying that these problems are not because of some imaginary white man purposely keeping everybody down.

I'll put it this way. Some little girl's education is suffering because her teachers, keep holding sickouts, because the principal is stealing money out of the school funds... and she isn't getting what she deserves.

And then someone else goes and tells her it's because..."racism" please tell me what that accomplishes?Now you might even have hate in the heart of a child that did not need it, as well as not noticed the teacher and the principle. That is all I'm trying to say. That is my biggest beef with this whole thing.
I have to agree with this post, because I have seen what you are talking about.

I think the real racism gets ignored, discounted, or even accepted (the Drug War for instance). Then you have cases where claims of racism are used for gain, or just to stir up shit. I have also run into this "the white man" stuff a number of times, and it is every bit as dark as the stuff the KKK spouts.
 
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Not emotional at all Protocosmo. Premeditated and just hateful. She laughed after calling him names. Hate is the only emotion there so it reads all flat. My guess is she probably does this stuff often and had a couple successes here and there at getting her way and it gives her fuel to continue her behavior.
And if you think anything in this pathetic video adds anything to Trump's legitimacy, or even has anything to do with this topic, then I've got a Make Money In Real Estate kit to sell you.
 
I enjoyed your post until I got to this part

If you believe that, you haven't traveled into the bad parts of town you're talking about.

I know what you mean. I am not saying that people don't hate white people, but the reasons are very different, which is why I keep insisting that history and colonialism are really important.
 
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I normally don't get into politics. Honestly the only thing I care about is question 4 on the Massachusetts ballot

Either way we are screwed with who ever wins but I really hope it's not Trump, he's not a politician and has no experience with politics what so ever. I will be voting for Hilary even though I don't really like her either, at least she has spent her whole career in politics.
 
1) The Wall: this will help solve many problems. First, the unemployment rate for unqualified workers: all the companies that now get away with hiring illegal immigrant labor will have to pony up and hire american citizens, pay them at least minimum wage, and stop engaging in their brand of light slavery. Second, it will help stop the drug crisis some states have been suffering when the supply lines for heroin, cocaine and the like are cut. Third, it will make America safer from crime and violence from mexican drug cartels and other garden variety criminals that cross the border into the US.

2) No more meddling: Donald Trump has promised that he will not engage in a war unless it is absolutely mandatory, he will renegotiate all the aid the US is spending globally so that you stop spending your hard earned tax money in countries that offer nothing back. He even said he would let Japan have an army again so that the US no longer has to protect them, etc. The money the US will save from renegotiating shitty deals and cutting back on global aid will help balance the budget, but also, you no longer will send your husbands and adult children to pointless wars in far away lands. And I didn't want to make this a "so much better than Hill" post, but you do have to consider that Hillary Clinton is the polar opposite as she has her donors interests in mind and war is always a profitable business for them.

3) Flat tax plan: finally someone that will make it easier for everyone to do their taxes. It is likely that your taxes will be lowered too unless you are in the financial sector. This will make it easier for people to create a company and apply themselves since they no longer need to hire an accountant to help them file taxes and will be paying less overall. This has the potential to help create jobs and start family businesses in America.

4) No tolerance for terrorism: Donald Trump is the only candidate that promised he would put a moratorium on all muslim immigration and/or tourism from the Middle East or other countries known to be having terrorism problems until he figures out a way to vet them. He also has talked about a plan for keeping an eye on mosques to see what they are teaching and if any of them are seen to be involved with terrorist groups or receiving funding from them they will be closed. This will help keep America safe from terrorism.

5) Fighting China on trade: he will fix the trade deals with China so that american companies stop moving their production there and go back to the US to hire american workers, he will make them stop manipulating currency to have an upper hand, and stop making american companies share their proprietary technology just to get access to the Chinese market.

There are a lot of things that Trump was the only candidate to bring to the table. He was the first to put the finger on some of the problems and to identify the solutions to them. Things that the other candidates wouldn't even dare to mention for fear of upsetting their donnors.

White people have most of the power in the US because it is a country built by white people.

That's what Trump says he will do; what he would actually do once in office and he realizes that he's not a dictator and that things aren't black and white, is another matter. It's not as if these proposals haven't been proposed already (except maybe the wall, and banning Muslims--he can take credit for those as far as I'm concerned). Since you've been in the US for a relatively short time, you might not remember that most of these items, in one form or another, are perennial staples of previous presidential campaigns. So, the comments below are not meant as criticism of you, but rather the positions Trump is campaigning on.

Illegal immigration: ". . . all the companies that now get away with hiring illegal immigrant labor will have to pony up and hire american citizens, pay them at least minimum wage, and stop engaging in their brand of light slavery." The reason those people are here in the first place is that Americans simply won't do those jobs. Are Americans going to do the seasonal, migratory work of harvesting produce, for any price? Are Americans going to do the backbreaking work of roofers in the hot sun, for any price? I don't think so. So, all that a wall would do is put companies that use cheap immigrant labor out of business, and make the goods and services they provide much more expensive. Also, those workers that would have entered the US illegally will now be stuck in poverty in their home countries. I'm not saying that the US has a moral obligation to take them in for humanitarian reasons, but it is something to keep in mind, because large populations of unemployed, hopeless people can destabilize their countries, which can affect the US.

Flat taxes: This is often marketed as a panacea for the working class and middle class, so that people won't have to fill out all of those pesky tax forms. What's really behind the idea of flat taxes is that it would be a massive tax cut for the wealthy, who would be paying the same tax rate as a Starbucks barista. A flat tax is extremely regressive. It would do away with the mortgage interest deduction, which is very popular with homeowners. Also, the personal income tax is like the tip of the iceberg of federal taxes in this country in terms of scope and complexity. Would the flat tax concept be applied to business taxes, estate taxes, employment taxes, gift taxes, excise taxes?

Meddling around the world: The US can't isolate itself without stirring up a lot of trouble caused by other world or regional powers rushing in to fill the vacuum left by our retreat. For example, withdrawing from Japan would force them to build up their military and would lead to China exerting economic and political pressure on Japan. Withdrawing from South Korea would force the south to become even more assertive against the north, and would greatly increase the likelihood of war, possibly including nukes (the north has them, and I wouldn't be surprised if the south maintained a secret stash of them also). Both Japan and South Korea are huge exporters to the US, and directly or indirectly, they employ a lot of Americans here. It's in the interests of the US to help keep those countries stable.

Trade with China: This is the one I have the most affinity for. Something needs to be done to restore balance, but Trump, or any president, can't "make" China do anything. China is a yuuuge economic power, and a strong military and political power. These things would have to be negotiated, and the US is far from holding all the cards.

I could make similar arguments against the other items in this list. This is why I can't take Trump seriously. There's nothing new here (except the wall), and there's a reason those proposals have never gone anywhere.
 
Since you've been in the US for a relatively short time, you might not remember that most of these items, in one form or another, are perennial staples of previous presidential campaigns.

First of all, you do not know me, so don't assume stuff about me. I might not be an american, but I have been living in the US for the past 7 years and I am a journalist. The area that I cover is american politics. So, I could say I am more informed than the average american when it comes to politics. People who know american history in depth or who have been living in the country longer than I could teach me a few things, but I have seen so many campaigns since Bush vs Gore that I am confident I know very well which themes are staples and which themes are taboo in american politics. I am not speaking out of my ass.

That's what Trump says he will do; what he would actually do once in office and he realizes that he's not a dictator and that things aren't black and white, is another matter. It's not as if these proposals haven't been proposed already (except maybe the wall, and banning Muslims--he can take credit for those as far as I'm concerned).

Good job, Captain Obvious. But since nobody on these forums believes in crystal balls, tarot cards, or reading the intestines of sheep, we are not going to be able to see the future before voting. We need to stick to what these people are saying in their campaign to judge who to vote for. If they don't follow through once they are in office we can judge them for it. This is democracy 101.

Still, if you insist on doing an exercise in skepticism perhaps it would be best to check Hillary's track record first since she is the only one who has held office. And I don't think anyone can claim that she is honest. So if we are concerned about liars, Hillary would be the first one whose campaign we should discredit consider she has lied to the american people in very significant ways and then she brushes it off with phrases like: "what does it matter now?". But then, Hillary's campaign would have to have actual substance other than "Trump is racist and his voters are racist".

Seriously, honesty is a word you shouldn't even mention when shilling for hill.

The reason those people are here in the first place is that Americans simply won't do those jobs. Are Americans going to do the seasonal, migratory work of harvesting produce, for any price? Are Americans going to do the backbreaking work of roofers in the hot sun, for any price? I don't think so. So, all that a wall would do is put companies that use cheap immigrant labor out of business, and make the goods and services they provide much more expensive. Also, those workers that would have entered the US illegally will now be stuck in poverty in their home countries. I'm not saying that the US has a moral obligation to take them in for humanitarian reasons, but it is something to keep in mind, because large populations of unemployed, hopeless people can destabilize their countries, which can affect the US.

I don't think you have a firm grasp of how the economy works. Americans would do those jobs if they could do them. Americans did these jobs before 1965 when the open immigration law was enacted and unskilled labor immigrantes flooded the country.

Any american that is currently unemployed and cannot provide for his family would gladly do many of the jobs that illegals are currently doing in construction, service, manufacturing, and even agricultural jobs. The reason americans cannot do these jobs is because they don't get hired. Not because they are too posh to build affordable housing, too snotty to pick up phones in call centers, or too spoiled to work for a low wage.

And the reason they don't get hired is not because companies actually prefer illegal labor. It is because american citizens have to comply with US law. And according to US law there is a minimum wage any american employee must receive per hour. Even if I, as an american citizen, wanted to clean toilets for 5 cents per hour, I couldn't do it because american minimum wage law applies to me. It doesn't apply to the illegal mexican who crossed the border yesterday, though. And no company who breaks the law hiring illegal labor is going to risk hiring an american for less than minimum wage because they could sue them unlike illegals because their hands are tied.

Illegals get hired because they are already forced to hide in order to remain in the US. Therefore, any company knows they will not be sued for paying them lower than minimum wage simply because the illegal worker would be risking a deportation. Breaking the law is only profitable business when both parties are guilty of the crime. Otherwise you have no insurance.

As for the novelty of Trump's proposals, they are novel. Especially on immigration which was a taboo subject before 2015. Nobody before him even dare address it unless it was to push for amnesty. Speaking about fixing trade deals with China is also novel, and we both know it, I don't know where you are trying to get saying that his policies have been proposed a thousand times, no matter how much you dislike Trump, facts are facts.
 
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I do feel that regardless of party, voters would do themselves a huge service to spend some time learning about and researching what exactly is involved in being president and what a president is actually capable of accomplishing.

If many things you are supporting a candidate for are mostly things the candidate is incapable of actually achieving, then are you really voting for more of a "sloppy joes every monday and free candy machines" student body president?

"I'll build a wall and make mexico pay for it" ... Wha? HOW? will it be built out of free candy machines and sloppy joes too?
 
I'm not saying that the US has a moral obligation to take them in for humanitarian reasons, but it is something to keep in mind, because large populations of unemployed, hopeless people can destabilize their countries, which can affect the US
Lol. The ppl might destabilize their own countries and that might affect the US so let's keep this in mind for keeping them in US.
 
“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”"

This is the United States Of America!
 
“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”"

This is the United States Of America!

Sure, but what if instead of using the golden door they sneak in through the back and steal your shit in the process? You can actually immigrate legally to America but you have to do your part like everyone else. Illegal immigrants disregard american law.

Edit... I just looked up the full quote for fun and wanted to share something, this is the entire paragraph (or is it a stanza?):

'Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!' cries she With silent lips. 'Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!'"

It actually referred to the people from Europe: "ancient lands, storied pomp".
 
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Option A/folks! Is time to open your houses apartments condos! and allow ppl to move in! To the ppl who support huge streams of border jumpers pls know there is a lot more where they coming from - this planet is really big .( There are just not enough buildings in one country to accommodate all so compromises have to be made. If u refuse is cause u r intolerant and selfish.)

Option B/ border control and visa and health check stuff

( exception given to citizens of North Korea lol I know they can't get one but also they automatically are recognized as South Korean citizens so...not sure...but exceptions are exceptions not a rule for everyone who just wants stuff because we have laws for a reason and guilt tripping is just bullshit)
 
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Sure, but what if instead of using the golden door they sneak in through the back and steal your shit in the process? You can actually immigrate legally to America but you have to do your part like everyone else. Illegal immigrants disregard american law.

Edit... I just looked up the full quote for fun and wanted to share something, this is the entire paragraph (or is it a stanza?):



It actually referred to the people from Europe: "ancient lands, storied pomp".
I was addressing the refugee crisis, I should have clarified considering my previous post.
 
It always seems so weird to me that people make a huge deal about undocumented folks. Like who wouldn't cross some imaginary line if they thought it would make their family safer or more prosperous? The border is a man made divide on a spinning rock that's been here longer than us and will be here long after we're gone. Wall or no, it doesn't mean much. Even if they don't pay income taxes, existing in America entails paying tons of tax. They are paying in, and possibly at high percentages given how underpaid they can be. If someone's a violent criminal, totally send them back. Otherwise, let people live. Make immigration less expensive. Stop scapegoating the Mexicans. A wall isn't helping anyone or making a fake line any more real to people who are suffering. And spouting off about "making Mexico pay for it" in front of the rest of the world is total idiocy and ego masturbation that nothing good can come from.

Of course, we could always go to plan B and turn into such a shit country that our neighbors to the South no longer want to cross the border. It seems like that's the direction we're choosing. Not well thought through.
 
Option A/folks! Is time to open your houses apartments condos! and allow ppl to move in! To the ppl who support huge streams of border jumpers pls know there is a lot more where they coming from - this planet is really big .( There are just not enough buildings in one country to accommodate all so compromises have to be made. If u refuse is cause u r intolerant and selfish.)
If we're talking about women and children, I would absolutely open my home to refugees. I wouldn't have anything fancy for them, but my house has an extra bathroom. I could probably squeeze in a mom and a couple of children if it meant they wouldn't have to worry about being blown up while they figured something more permanent out. Also, there are like 4 empty houses on my street. So, I don't think America is over capacity. Not here in Florida anyway. Not in Michigan either last I was there.

I don't think refusing to do makes someone intolerant or necessarily selfish either. But, putting out reasons that aren't real is weird (to put it nicely). It would be way more respectable to just say that:
-you don't want to share your country.
-you don't want to share your space and resources.
-you don't want to care about those children.
and
-you don't have to because you're already here.
 
Sure, but what if instead of using the golden door they sneak in through the back and steal your shit in the process? You can actually immigrate legally to America but you have to do your part like everyone else. Illegal immigrants disregard american law.

Edit... I just looked up the full quote for fun and wanted to share something, this is the entire paragraph (or is it a stanza?):



It actually referred to the people from Europe: "ancient lands, storied pomp".

This is actually very important. And it's what people seem to be missing lately... come to america, but be American! Leave your politics from your other countries at the door. This is something that was kind of instilled among the immigrant families and places I come from.

You fight for your own country, not the one you fled to do better.
I get super aggravated when people call America as a country "oppressive" "racist" "no such thing as American Dream" etc etc. Bullshit. And no one wants to live in a place where these things are actually true. There is huge separations of wealth but you ultimately can still move from one to an other, even if it seems harder now for all Americans than it was 10 and 20 years ago.
 
If we're talking about women and children, I would absolutely open my home to refugees. I wouldn't have anything fancy for them, but my house has an extra bathroom.
Ok! Please know that some of the refugees might have a problem with your outfit and u need to accommodate that too for them.
That is good...so who else willing to take ppl in and how big is your place ?

( this is a joke but if it was real I wonder how many ppl would actually respond to this )
 
Lol. The ppl might destabilize their own countries and that might affect the US so let's keep this in mind for keeping them in US.

If I'm understanding what you're saying, I would have to agree, though not in the ironic sense of your statement. It's better to keep these people in the US working productively than causing instability in our southern neighbors. This is especially true since these immigrants are going to be here anyway--i.e., there is going to be no mass deportation. Trump himself is backing away from this position, trying to finesse it and blame the media so that it doesn't appear like a flip flop.
 
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I was thinking about this the other day in another conversation... I never thought Trump was going to start deporting people much either, but who knows. I saw it more as enforcing the laws already in existence.

But I might have an idea of where he got the idea from, of a program like that being cheaper on the government, (because it was... spoiler alert... under Bloomberg)

But also the participants were willing. They wanted to go back home. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/nyregion/29oneway.html?_r=0
 
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