Where do you stand on the Poppy/Mars controversy?

[Mila_]

As many of you probably know, Mars Argo filed a lawsuit against Poppy and Titanic Sinclair for copyright infringement on her persona and harassment/domestic abuse.

The fight has divided their once united fanbase into 2 main groups: those who support Poppy and those who support Mars. I am wondering where you guys stand.

 

[Vera]

Oh man I am firmly in the "I Just Hate Titanic" camp. He's such a creep. I'm not a huge fan of Mars or Poppy, but I'm aware of the drama.

 

[CoffeeKnight]

Here is some context for anyone who, like me, wasn't aware of this

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/16/1...-mars-argo-titanic-sinclair-youtube-explained

 

[Alyssa Taylor]

I'm not a huge fan of anyone in all of this but when I heard about it I was fairly intrigued and read through the lawsuit filed by Mars and looked into the situation a bit more.. I found it fairly compelling.
I think Titanic is a major creep and I stand behind Mars. Imagine building this huge, unique online persona only to have it basically stolen from you from some creep who's now making who know's how much money for it? And who allegedly abused you... It's gotta suck. I don't know. There's too many aspects of Mars' persona in Poppy to look just like a coincidence, IMO.
I think it has to take a lot of balls to come forward and file a lawsuit against him and Poppy though.
I don't know how I feel about Poppy in all of it though. Maybe she's been manipulated by him or maybe she knew this whole time and just went along with it for the fame.. who knows.

What do you think about it all, @Kitsune ?

 

[Mila_]

When things like this happen I always side with the people who are creating something of value. I do see some Mars in Poppy but it is also far enough from Mars to be her own thing in her own right. Mars left the internet and didn't do anything worthwhile since the break-up while Titanic has been busting his ass with Poppy to create this thing. Since the character of Mars Argo was part of a common art project (Computer Show and Grocery Bag TV) she would have to prove that the ideas Titanic supposedly copied from her werent his to begin with. All in all, I see Mars as envious of Poppy's success and while I understand where she is coming from I side with Poppy in this.

 

[Alyssa Taylor]

When things like this happen I always side with the people who are creating something of value. I do see some Mars in Poppy but it is also far enough from Mars to be her own thing in her own right. Mars left the internet and didn't do anything worthwhile since the break-up while Titanic has been busting his ass with Poppy to create this thing. Since the character of Mars Argo was part of a common art project (Computer Show and Grocery Bag TV) she would have to prove that the ideas Titanic supposedly copied from her werent his to begin with. All in all, I see Mars as envious of Poppy's success and while I understand where she is coming from I side with Poppy in this.

You have some really good points. I guess I didn't really think of it from that perspective... especially that Mars Argo was a part of a common art project and they would have to prove who's idea was whos. I suppose it'll be interesting to see where it goes in court.

 

[CosmicRose]

I am loyal to Mars Argo because I was a fan of her and Titanic before Poppy happened. When she disappeared I knew it was because they broke up but didn't know their relationship was so shitty before. They made beautiful music together that I have listened to for years. When Poppy came around I loved the project immediately but thought it was clearly Titanic restarting the Mars Argo project with a new girl. I'm not a fan of Poppy's music except for 2 very Titanic songs but I was super intrigued by the relationship between Titanic and Poppy, the question of where was Mars Argo, and why did Poppy's videos keep referencing Mars by saying 3:36 and stuff. I got bored with Poppy after a while and realized Titanic is a jerk which sucks because he's so talented. I'm glad Mars feels able to tell her side of the story now and take Titanic down a peg. I don't blame Poppy and hope she is not in an abusive situation. Her response letter to Mars was bizarre and illogical. It is eerie that a major theme of Poppy's videos is that she is being controlled like a robot.

 

[SoTxBob]

Option "D"... don't care at all.... unnecessary drama.

 

[Vera]

@SoTxBob Then don't reply? Clearly some of us find it interesting enough to talk about.

 

[Mila_]

I am loyal to Mars Argo because I was a fan of her and Titanic before Poppy happened. When she disappeared I knew it was because they broke up but didn't know their relationship was so shitty before. They made beautiful music together that I have listened to for years. When Poppy came around I loved the project immediately but thought it was clearly Titanic restarting the Mars Argo project with a new girl. I'm not a fan of Poppy's music except for 2 very Titanic songs but I was super intrigued by the relationship between Titanic and Poppy, the question of where was Mars Argo, and why did Poppy's videos keep referencing Mars by saying 3:36 and stuff. I got bored with Poppy after a while and realized Titanic is a jerk which sucks because he's so talented. I'm glad Mars feels able to tell her side of the story now and take Titanic down a peg. I don't blame Poppy and hope she is not in an abusive situation. Her response letter to Mars was bizarre and illogical. It is eerie that a major theme of Poppy's videos is that she is being controlled like a robot.

If I had been a fan of Computer Show and Mars Argo before Poppy became a thing I think I would side with her too and be pissed at Poppy’s success. I found out about Mars after discovering Poppy once her “That Poppy” video became viral and even when I watched everything I could find from Mars Argo I always saw her as more of a ghost.

I have to say I like all of them and enjoy their personas however I feel both Mars and Titanic are too referential and Poppy is in my opinion the more unique and polished persona out of the 3. I found Mars to be too referential to Courtney Love and the ilk so she felt to me like a rehash of something I hadn’t entirely enjoyed the first time around. Titanic draws too much inspiration from Royal Tenembaums, and Poppy seems to be more unique.

 

[CosmicRose]

@Kitsune I don't think they're that similar but I very much enjoyed Courtney Love and such so maybe that's why I Mars Argo.
I do agree that Poppy is a more polished persona and that is why she is boring to me. She's so one-dimensional and the mystery is manufactured by creepy background music and nonsense. Mars was a girl I could relate to, want to be friends with, had a fun personality. And her and Titanic together were magic...

But you're right that Mars Argo is basically a ghost now. The ghost of Mars Argo and Poppy can exist simultaneously and I don't know what I think about that part of the lawsuit, but the abuse is a bummer and I worry about Poppy.
(P.s. I'm glad you started this thread because I could talk about this forever )

 

[Mila_]

@Kitsune I don't think they're that similar but I very much enjoyed Courtney Love and such so maybe that's why I Mars Argo.
I do agree that Poppy is a more polished persona and that is why she is boring to me. She's so one-dimensional and the mystery is manufactured by creepy background music and nonsense. Mars was a girl I could relate to, want to be friends with, had a fun personality. And her and Titanic together were magic...

But you're right that Mars Argo is basically a ghost now. The ghost of Mars Argo and Poppy can exist simultaneously and I don't know what I think about that part of the lawsuit, but the abuse is a bummer and I worry about Poppy.
(P.s. I'm glad you started this thread because I could talk about this forever )

I agree with you completely.. Mars would be like an amateur cam girl and Poppy like a stripper type. I do think Mars+Titanic felt more real and you can see that he admired and respected Mars. When I see him with Poppy he is simply doing the job of a handler but since that is part of their act and Poppy is so big on artificiality we will never know how they are in their personal lives.

As of the abuse accusation I have no idea and would rather skip that topic as there is no proof and it’s all just “he said she said”

 

[zippypinhead]

This is all "court of public opinion" fodder at this point. I can't say I have enough information to come down on any side. Like @Kitsune points out, as far as the intellectual property aspect goes, I think it might be hard for Sheets to gain traction, given the Mars Argo stuff is a collaborative effort with Mixter. I don't think Mixter being driven and ambitious in his cultivation of the Poppy character is a particularly good defense -- there are plenty of people out there who bust their asses at screwing others over -- but the more important part of the equation is just how vital a role Mixter had played in the development of Mars Argo. That's the part that I'll be paying attention to.

The most interesting part in the personal side of the story is Pereira's role in this. If the allegations of abuse against Mixter are true, it sounds like Periera has moved from one abusive and manipulative person to another, and based on her "Poppy" response to the situation, I wonder how much agency she has in this. I wonder if this is a response by Pereira to a woman from her past who is now threatening her livelihood, or if it's a response from Mixter through "Poppy".

It's interesting stuff. It's certainly more than simple Youtube drama. As the Polygon article @CoffeeKnight posted states, the outcome may have some sweeping implication for how copyright works, especially regarding collaboration and ownership. I don't know who to believe, and I'll be keeping track as things unfold.

 

[opphs]

I hadn't heard of Mars before news of this lawsuit came out so I can't speak to the accusations of plagiarism, but Titanic Sinclair is pretty clearly a creep and I always stand with victims of abuse.

@Kitsune I don't think they're that similar but I very much enjoyed Courtney Love and such so maybe that's why I Mars Argo.
I do agree that Poppy is a more polished persona and that is why she is boring to me. She's so one-dimensional and the mystery is manufactured by creepy background music and nonsense. Mars was a girl I could relate to, want to be friends with, had a fun personality. And her and Titanic together were magic

In defense of Poppy as an artistic endeavor though, here's an article that explains what the project is getting at in a way that made it finally click for me. Which probably won't convince you, and that's fine. To each their own.

 

[dilligaf0]

Who?

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

I read about it and realized that I only cared enough about it to make this reply.

 

[Gen]

Who?

From up the thread:

Here is some context for anyone who, like me, wasn't aware of this

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/16/1...-mars-argo-titanic-sinclair-youtube-explained

 

[Zana]

I have no idea who these people are but when I read the “I hate titanic” option I yelled “IT WAS A GREAT MOVIE HOW DARE YOU”

 

[RebelleHart]

I didn't know about any of this before this thread and now having done a bit of research, I just feel very old. I only sort of half understand the appeal of these videos in the first place. Teenage me is probably very disappointed in adult me right now. That said, there is something undeniable fascinating about all of this and from a complete outsider's standpoint, I agree with the train of thought that this Titanic guy the real problem here. Perhaps it is part of his persona, but he just oozes creepiness to me.

 

[Dan Epstein]

Don't ask me, I'm still lost in the Yanni and the Yatzee or Laurel debate.....

 

[SMuser69]

I love how when someone brings up youtube drama in forum with an older audience. 9/10 people haven't no clue who the people are. I didn't know who logan paul was till early this year. It's like the ultimate generation gap. I been watching twitch for years and still didn't know anyone from youtube.