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Was this out of line? - Question for the other side

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Aug 14, 2011
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What follows was an mfc-mail I sent a few days ago. It was sent for the reason I said I sent, 'b/c I like the model, and thought she might be causing some of her own problem'. (She enjoied 2or3 months that had her in the top 20 during part of the month, and may have even finished in the top20 one month) She was working very hard and putting in a lot of hours, she had a few bad weeks, and then started running news feeds, at the worst were 2or3 times a week. They were always after she had quite for the day, saying how bad the day had been, often with token to time ratio info. I have been in her room 1 time since I wrote the below mail (very first time I saw her after sending the mail). I first said, "Hi model's name" no response (200+ in rm), 30 sec later said, "I'm glad to see you in good spirits" still nothing, so I said, "Well I'm not banned anyway" then after waiting for another min, "Well I said I like you, so I'll be back when I can show you my appreciation, :cya".

What I would like to know, is what I have done here, out of line. I don't care so much about whether or not this was proper in the lines of convention. I try not to due that which might be seen as out of the norm, where the action might put another in an uncomfortable place b/c it was in public/not a private action. But other than that, I have little regard for what others think of what I do b/c its out of the norm.

So, what I am looking for is, was this rude b/c it is telling, or suggesting, how she should do her job, or for any reason? I do not see it as being out of line or I would not of sent it. I do/did obviously have my concerns, or I would not have had the tone I did, or would not be asking here.

(WanksWanksbb aka Sirwanksabit)
Modelsname, you might not like this, and it may feel like the last thing in the world you need. I wish I was a better friend b/c if I was told such a thing by someone who didn't really know me I would maybe feel like STFU. Please know that I would not even bother if I did not really like you.

THE WHINING IS FAIL...

I so understand how truly awful it feels to not even be acknowledged by anyone. You sit there or stand there, and try to tell your self it is just slow. you try to push up a grin when all you really want to do is cry. You know you are better than this or at least you don't deserve to be treated like you aren't even there. You keep thinking if I just stay out here a little longer someone will give me something... Anything!!! That is part of the awfulness too, that you know you are not shit so why wont anyone do something. Then there are the assholes who go out of their way to be mean. You know they are assholes, but still it can be so hurtful, it is a personal attack, it feels so unfair, they don't even know you, but do their best to injure you b/c of what you do. it is saying, you, the person you are, is a piece off shit b/c of what you do. The time drags and drags, and the last 10 minutes you are there are the worst, b/c in that time you mentally turn to say fuck it Im out of here 100 times, and then mentally turn back around 101 b/c someone has to do something if you just stay another minute. Then finally you go, and you go in anger, and you just want to kill something but you can't b/c your too sad, and that makes it all the worse. I know how this feels - I have tears in my eyes as I type this out.

I don't know if this is how you ever feel. I was not describing how I knew you feel, but how I know I used to feel. No I was not a male cam model. I was an amputee (right leg below the knee) who had his disability cut without notice, because of a clerical error two states away, that took more then 2 years to sort out. I got an apology, and my disability back. Not before I ended up living under a freeway and having to hold a cardboard sign to beg for food $. It is not exactly the same as being a cam model, but I imagine it might some times feel very much the same?

If I am way off base, I'm sorry for wasting your time. Whether I understand how you exactly feel or not, I understand it is an unpleasant feeling to be treated as if you are worthless.

Again I like you and don't wish to have you upset at me - but honesty is trump, and I have to tell you honestly, that the reason I have not been to your room in the last 4-5 months was b/c I found the sometime frequent news feeds complaining about how unfair life was treating you, unattractive. In general I find whining unattractive, but I do understand how badly it can feel, and the need to say, hey look how bad this makes me feel and understand I am sad. If that were all it felt like, I think I could have handled it. What it more often then not felt like, was, that we, all of us the ppl, who did not tip, were directly responsible for how unfair life can be. Who promised you fair, it was not I. I am sorry some days feel like that, but life is not fair, and any suggestion that it is, is pure chance.

Most of the time I am the odd man out, but on this I think others may feel the same.

I may be a fool, and you have discovered this as a strategy to get the pity tips. I don't want to believe this, and I don't, even a little. But to totally disregard it would be stupid, as little as we know of each other.

Please remember no matter how what I have said makes you FEEL, that maybe it has some Merritt as something to think about, after your done hating me.


Eric/*wanks*/Camstory

I will add that at one point 6-8 months ago I visited her room about 15-20 times, and many of those I spent an hour or more. I was not a reg I guess, but only b/c I stopped visiting - most all the regs would greet me on entry. I was at some point added to her friends list, yet did not directly pay for for that. (Some make a big deal of letting everyone know they don't pay for sex. I don't pay to become a friend, just seems a miss match of terms.) I wanted to illustrate a little better the extent of our contact.

Thank for your input.
 
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Well, in all honesty, if I was her I would be a little miffed.

If she has a lot of people in her room, and a group of regulars, she probably has heard a few times before that her being down isn't being productive. I tried to read it from the perspective as if someone had sent it to me, and in particular this part was a little jarring:

THE WHINING IS FAIL...

If a guy I casually knew, who used to come around but didn't anymore, sent me a 750 word treatise on why I was failing, and started it off with

I DO NOT LIKE YOUR ATTITUDE, IT IS FAIL

then I really would not be very receptive to anything else. In my own perspective, it comes off as a personal attack. Unless I was feeling pretty bored I probably would have assumed the e-mail was trolling or an attack and deleted it after that sentence.

One thing that I really do not like in this job is members who try and make an emotional connection with me when I don't want one to be there. It's like, come on, dude! I'm a hot naked chick, just enjoy the titties. We don't need to connect on a personal level. The absolute worst conversations I have are when members go ahead and tell me how I feel, and that is what your entire first paragraph is. You tell her exactly what she is going through and how she is feeling. I would get pretty angry if someone presumed to tell me what is going on in my cam room and life - even if they are correct. I know it's a bit of a conundrum, or perhaps just plain bitchy unfair, but I definitely do not like it when members stare deep in to the soul of my cam room and give me unsolicited advice on how I feel on the inside and how the world is treating me. Somehow it seems like an invasion of privacy - yes, everyone can see it, but nobody really invited you to tell me your opinion on it. Convoluted, but in my case, true.

As far as your second paragraph goes, it does solicit a lot of emotions from your situation, but as I said before - I do not want an emotional connection with everyone. That would be exhausting. I feel like I'm being pretty harsh but so far, from my perspective, this message is just about everything I do not want to hear.

Para #3 -
but honesty is trump, and I have to tell you honestly, that the reason I have not been to your room in the last 4-5 months was b/c I found the sometime frequent news feeds complaining about how unfair life was treating you, unattractive.

I don't know how close you were to this model, but right now I'm picturing a guy who used to hang out with me, used to tip, et cetera, and eventually just kind of went away. No hard feelings. If he sent me a big, unsolicited message out of the blue about how my own attitude was FAIL and I was killing my own job by being a whiny bitch, and telling me he didn't think I was being attractive, I would probably have literally flipped off the screen. When you turn around and say she's making you feel bad about not tipping her, and say "who promised you a fair life, not I" it once again sounds like you are brow-beating her in to feeling bad because of your own issues with her.

My favorite part is at the very end, and basically sums this message up:

I may be a fool, and you have discovered this as a strategy to get the pity tips. I don't want to believe this, and I don't, even a little. But to totally disregard it would be stupid, as little as we know of each other.

"Oh yeah, I guess maybe this is all a ploy to get tips. I guess I don't really think you're above that because we don't really know each other."

I know probably not a lot of people will agree with me - but if you sent this message to me, I would have blocked you on the spot.

Most models don't want unsolicited advice, and very few need it. You sent a huge, hurtful message to a model yelling at her for not having a personality up to your standards, assuming you know everything that's going on in her life, making an inappropriate emotional bond*, accusing her of making members feel bad, and being a liar for money.

If you had just sent a message like,

Hey, I've been following your news feed and I feel like you've been down lately. I just want you to know I'm still rooting for you!

Maybe that would have cheered her up and made her a little happier to go on cam. I know supportive and kind messages like that really improve my day.

A large message on why I suck from a guy I barely know? Angering, hurtful, and depending on how down I am might stop me from even getting on cam that day.

tl;dr: IMO, that message was pretty damn hurtful. I can definitely see why she wouldn't want to talk to you. This message summated: "Hey, I don't like the way you're acting. These are things I assume are going on in your life. I haven't even tipped you in months, get your act together. You're terrible. Maybe you're lying for money. I don't like you. Don't hate me!"

*I know this might not be a bad thing for everyone, but to me, this is like a stranger walking up on the street and wanting to share deep emotional bonds that connect us through shared experience. It isn't an appropriate thing to do with people you don't know well.
 
Spot on Evvie...and man I gotta say, instead of pming or emailing her and saying "look, I'm worried I was out of line..." you pasted the entire message to a public forum and asked for opinons :shock:

If she reads this forum or ever sees it she's going to be mortified, humiliated, and really really pissed.
 
I have to agree with Evvie. That would have severely hurt my feelings and I would be pissed.

Although, I can see your side of the story, that you really just wanted to be helpful. But your approach was not a good one.

Honestly, I think you may owe her an apology. Maybe, just write her something short llike, "Ok, so I looked back at that message I sent you and realized I was out of place to say what I did. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I really like you and thought my constructive criticism might have been helpful. But, I realize now it may have made the situation worse."

Just an idea as to how you could proceed if you want to keep entering her room.

If I was her and you didn't apologize, every time you entered my room I would become uncomfortable and think back about how much it hurt me.

It's hard enough to cam emotionally without a constant reminder of a time you failed. But that's just my :twocents-02cents:
 
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FeliciaClover said:
I have to agree with Evvie. That would have severely hurt my feelings and I would be pissed.

Although, I can see your side of the story, that you really just wanted to be helpful. But your approach was not a good one.

Honestly, I think you may owe her an apology. Maybe, just write her something short llike, "Ok, so I looked back at that message I sent you and realized I was out of place to say what I did. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I really like you and thought my constructive criticism might have been helpful. But, I realize now it may have made the situation worse."

Just an idea as to how you could proceed if you want to keep entering her room.

If I was her and you didn't apologize, every time you entered my room I would become uncomfortable and think back about how much it hurt me.

It's hard enough to cam emotionally without a constant reminder of a time you failed. But that's just my :twocents-02cents:

I also do not think you were trying to be mean - just posting this here was evidence that you really did want to help.

But this seems like it may be one of those "all ladies are unique" kind of thing. Felicia would want a nice apology message or she would feel bad to see you in her room; I probably wouldn't want to hear from you again, and I wouldn't mind seeing you in my room unless you tried to make a new bond or connection with me (after a while I would probably be fine with you hanging out per usual, as long as the message wasn't brought up). Your lady could be anywhere in between or off in another direction.
 
Of course it was rude and out of line....models don't like to be told how to do their job. Really, advice like this should never be delivered unless the girl is directly asking for it. Try to think how it would feel for you if you recieved some lengthy, unsolicited email from a person you barely knew telling you how to do your job or what was wrong or upsetting about the current way you are doing your job. I don't know why really, but we see this a lot on MFC....some guys just feel as if it is their job to help the models out, give them advice and tell them all the time what they are doing wrong. They don't want to hear it, and if they do, they will probably ask friends.... The only thing I can think of for situations like these is, if you really want to help the girl out, TIP! LOL
 
I didn't read your entire message because it was a bit too long for me, and I pretty much get what your point is.

If you're really gonna give a model unsolicited advice, you could at least put it in a tip note (tip note not viewable to the entire room). I'm not sure what the character limit is for a tip note message, but you can say something along the lines of "I hate to see you so down lately. Cheer up, sweetie." MAYBE she'll read it and think to herself "Damn, he's right. I need to stop being so mopey."

This would be better than you sending her a lengthy message complaining about her complaining...lol. If you had sent me a long message like that and then discussed it with my room, I would be embarrassed and would ban you. A model should never have to feel like she's being ganged up on.

I usually find lengthy MFC Mail messages a turn-off unless it's a cool regular, a guy giving me detailed info on something he's paying me for (custom pics, custom vid, etc.), or a model warning me about a certain member or model.
 
In all honesty, since thats trump, this seems like a stoned or semi drunken discourse to try to say something that thats eating at you that could have been much easier to read if more concise. I'd be amazed if she actually read it all. I hope that from your desire to help and all the detail, that she's more than just an all business token grinder and that the apparent ignoring of you was from a busy room.
I agree with whats already been said, models dont have personal connections for the majority of folks nor do they want unsolicited advice. Strictly from my own views, if I were wallowing in my own 'crap' I certainly wouldn't want an acquaintance/neighbor/friend telling me how bad I suck UNLESS I asked them. I have seen the news feed whining before and the harsh reality is it will remedy itself soon enough when folks block her feed and stop visiting.
 
Jupiter551 said:
Spot on Evvie...and man I gotta say, instead of pming or emailing her and saying "look, I'm worried I was out of line..." you pasted the entire message to a public forum and asked for opinons :shock:

If she reads this forum or ever sees it she's going to be mortified, humiliated, and really really pissed.
Well I am not sure if you were saying I should write her asap and tell her what I have done, or not. What I had felt about half way through Evvie's post was that I very much needed to apologize, and why I felt it was not what I had meant it to be. If you were saying that she would pissed b/c I posted it here, I want to say a couple things that come to mind. 1:before I made the original post I considered the privacy issue. I first did not think it could have come across in any translation as it appears to possibly might have. though I do not pretend that I considered anything that I did not think to consider - I would not have posted if I had considered it might be taken so. What I did do other than just leaving the name out was change the chronology of things to further mask the identity of the model. 2: Once I did read how it was possibly taken, I felt it was much more important that I try to express how sorry I was that what I said might have been taken as hurtful and/or mean, (and therefore hurtful and/or mean), than anything else at all. I am sorry I did not have the ability to understand what I had written, but once having become concerned, I think asking for some input, while doing a fair job of guarding the models identity, not so bad. Others may disagree?
mortified, humiliated, and really really pissed.
Really really pissed she might be, but both mortified, humiliated, are feelings that are invoked when we are put in the focus of everyone, I don't believe I have done that.

So having read no further than your post jup, I sent what follows. It sounds as if she may not even read it. She has not been on since the day I was in her room, some days ago. She may not have even finished the op mail, as there is no reply. So I guess it may be BCS if she does read this thread.

HI ********, I hope you will read this. I am sorry for my two previous mails. Please believe that they were sent in my sincere attempt to do two things. 1more than anything I wanted to say hey I understand how hard this can be. I think I can relate, and it is an awful part of what you do that a bad day can so impact on ones sense of self worth - I think I understand, and I am sympathetic.

2that I care enough about how you feel personally, that I will sacrifice how you may feel about me, b/c I think what I have to say is worth consideration in the very thing that is making you feel badly. I may be wrong, and I understand that it is inappropriate for me to give advice I was not asked for. I care more about giving you something that might help you after you get over being mad at me, than being appropriate. I like you and want you to be happy

Well I guess MY MSG WAS HUGE FAIL!

When you did not respond to me in chat I knew you were not happy, but thought I would give you a few days to reply, when you did not I got concerned. So, posted the mail I sent (with name removed) asking if it was out of line? There have been half a dozen replies to my post. I have only read the first 3, b/c I wanted to write this as soon as possible. It seems my msg reads quite differently from how I meant it to. I guess the WHINING IS FAIL, is not such a kind way to start off. I am not so stupid that I could have figured that myself, had I taken the time to really think about how it would come across.

Beyond that I guess it sounds as if I assume I know what you are going through,and/or are feeling. This is absolutely not what I wanted you to understand. I actually thought I was saying I don't presume to know what is going on with you, if it is what I imagine it could be...

Also the comment that one could not totally disregard that this was a strategy, and not true sentiment, unless they be an idiot, was meant to communicate that I meant to presume nothing at all. The line proceeding that states that it is not at all what I think. I often give the power to the disclaimers I use, as much power as those things I say that are related. But this was not even meant as a disclaimer, just a way of saying I don't want you to think I think I know anything no matter what I believe. A bad job of doing so, but that is all I meant with that.

I think what I might have said, - better all around, would have been. "I am really glad to see you back on regular. Don't let a bad day get you down. Despite how you feel right now, I know you deserve much better. And more important, you know you are not [what your news feed suggested you felt]". I'll come see you as soon as I can be part of a better day.

I don't so much worry how well I am liked. But above all else honesty, integrity, and kindness are what matter to me. I felt my original mail was honest, and tho I did not think it made a point of being kind, I did not want it to be anything that seemed to be other than kind. It has come across to the two who have made comment so far, as being hurtful. That makes me very sad. I could handle scores of ppl disliking me for all sorts of things I said, and I try to never edit my honest expression, to make them more acceptable in general. I do try to always edit anything that I feel to be hurtful, or mean. I did not do such a good job here, - It was the last thing I wanted it to do, or be. :(

~E~
 
That was way to many words, if I got an email that long with THAT title I wouldnt even read it. I did though cause it wasnt to me, and other then the title, I didn't think it was that bad, its kinda sweet actually at first how you are trying to relate and just saying you understand, even if it isnt correct, its still an attempt, I still appreciate that kinda stuff from fans. The rest not so much, cause I wouldn't wanna be told I'm whiney, but I'm not, so its all good....but regardless, that title prolly fucked any intentions you may have had....and the words.... it was so long!


Anywho, Yeah I just wouldnt have even read it, do you know if she did? I'd be surprised, its really really long!
 
This has made me wonder a couple of things.

1- Do models ever receive lengthy emails or PMs praising their work? It seems we always see posts about lengthy email/ PM complaining about something a model either did or failed to do. I'm just wondering if there are any that tell the model how great a show was or how much a member enjoyed a video or whatever. You know, like fan mail. Or is that only kept to tips and rating and admiring?

2- This is about models hating being told how to perform. This is a part of the entertainment industry; a tiny, niche market. You're performance artists, whether you think so or not. Think about it: you have a stage name, you take on a different more sexualized persona from your daily life (most of the time, I'm sure), you put on shows. You are performance art geared toward an audience. If the audience isn't happy, they aren't going to pay for the show. So you have to find a compromise between the art you want to show and what the audience wants to watch.
While I agree it can be a pain in the ass and a bit disheartening for someone to criticize your job- especially as an artist- maybe you should not be so quick to jump down someone's throat. You can't compare your job to working on a car or stocking a shelf or repairing electronics, because they are two completely different beasts, each needs to be tamed in a different way. I just think that if a member cares enough to write you in length about something they think could be better or something that they think isn't working, then maybe it shouldn't be dismissed as some asshole trying to tell you how to do your job. I don't mean just any old basic that pops in free chat and tells you the music sucks, but someone that's been in a few times, drops a few tokens and maybe has a decent rapport with the room, but not necessarily a regular.
Remember there's never anything wrong with trying something new (unless it just crawled from the sewer), and there's no reason to not try something again even if it failed the first time. Camming is an evolving art-form with no "right" way. That's obvious by the plethora of cam-sites and models. You have to keep things fresh and you have to deliver what your audience wants, within reason.

At least that's the opinion of a struggling artist/ writer who can't handle criticism too well.



As for Cam: I agree with (I think it was) Evvie, I didn't really get past the opening. I think you meant it as a lighthearted intro, but "lighthearted intro" is fail, ironically.
 
Camstory, I haven't read any of your posts in this thread entirely. I usually have a decent attention span, but I start to read your posts in this thread and think "OMG...too long. I'll have to come back to that later." Lol. I'm sorry. I need to eat breakfast right now, but I'll come back to this later. Enjoy your day.
 
Well I was suggesting messaging her privately apologising if you were out of line as an alternative to posting here, not as well, but I dunno if you don't even visit her anymore then I would have sent a short (1-2 line) apology if the previous letter came off rude, then leave her the heck alone.

I understand you didn't include her name, and may have changed some other details, but if someone else was also a regular in her room or followed her newsfeed and had seen you in her room previously...it wouldn't be as hard as you might think to make some educated guesses about her identity. Furthermore, if it DID make her feel bad and she does read these forums or somehow sees this, she's going to feel even worse because all these other people are commenting about the situation.

She may even interpret it that you didn't get the response you wanted back from her so you threw it open to the public.
 
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Had to log back on b/c I could not sleep. I had thought I could wait til I had some rest to make comment on Evvie's post. Much there I wish to comment on, not all in disagreement. The first seems, even to me, to be nit picking, but somehow sounds very different in my head, when on the surface is not very different at all.

Evvie said:
"who promised you a fair life, not I" it once again sounds like you are brow-beating her in to feeling bad because of your own issues with her.
Should be, "Who promised you fair, it was not I",

And yes it may be brow-beating (not exactly sure what that means/don't know its origins), it is meant to convey, 'Its not fair' is not a valid complaint. I can understand how it feels, very well in fact, but I do not think it is reason enough to expect it should, or will change anything. To me some of the messages felt like a kid stomping their feet, and yelling 'Its not fair.' I dismiss this complaint when a child employs it, with, "Who ever promised you fair." It is an understandable way to feel, but as adults living in the real world, I think some of us (myself included), need to be reminded, this is invalid, when it is used b/c you really wanted that candy.

camstory said:
I may be a fool, and you have discovered this as a strategy to get the pity tips. I don't want to believe this, and I don't, even a little. But to totally disregard it would be stupid, as little as we know of each other.
evvie said:
"Oh yeah, I guess maybe this is all a ploy to get tips. I guess I don't really think you're above that because we don't really know each other."
Hm, I still read this as I don't believe this is possible, I really don't. and then as, I guess it can not be ruled out of the realm of that which is plausible.

This is what bothered me enough that I got up and slammed a cup of instant coffee, cuz It would not let not sleep.

I think it might be understood to suggest that it crossed my mind as something I considered to be somewhat of a possibility. It was not, and only an added bit as I reread the draft, meant to convey.. 'I don't want you to think I think I really know you.' It may have missed that mark, but I don't think it missed so far as to suggest I thought it anything close to likely.
I don't want to believe this, and I don't, even a little.
I think it was partly so upsetting, b/c it was so clearly not what I meant, or said, and it was the comment that was given the most attention.

Ok back to bed, I'll try to read further into the thread later today. I sometimes think it is odd that most of my post seem to be invisible, yet a few elicit such attention. I must be developing some of that thick skin you girls are always speaking of. I am almost looking forward to getting up and exposing myself to the dubious attention. :-D
 
You seem like a decent dood, camstory, and I'm sure you weren't TRYING to upset her, but I fear you may have dropped a bollock here. So to speak.
Look at it from her POV - she's a camgirl, she's going about her business, she checks her inbox and BOOM -it's been splattered with a lengthy screed about how annoying her news feed is.
The kicker is, it's been sent by a guy who only ever spoke to her a handful of times... EIGHT MONTHS AGO!
Looking at things objectively, there was just no need to send her the e-mail. Even if her news feed IS annoying (I have no idea if it's annoying or not, yo). I THINK you were trying to help her. I THINK you had her best interests at heart. I THINK you wanted to steer her away from potentially annoying members with her news feed and losing tips as a result. But - and I'm trying not to sound rood here - I just don't see how or why it was any of your concern. If you don't like her news feed, unfollow it, ya know?
 
Hard to respond to a posting like that but to say this:

To all the models out there...Don't think of it as a member "Telling the model how to do her job." Think of it as.."Animately critiquing and offering suggestions as to what the members are looking for in a product they have or will one day purchase." Like a comment card or customer service survey. Haven't any of you sent back a burger because it wasn't prepared to your liking?

p.s. Please keep in mind that when you respond, this is 100% sarcasm. Trying to bring light to a rather depressing or mundane thread.
 
Bah, you know I like you Camstory, but that would turn me off too.

I hate any long message telling me what I should do. I get rebellious and want to do the opposite of what the person wants. You've got to make the person think it was their idea to change if you want them to take it well. Yerp. It's all about presentation.
 
lordmagellan said:
This has made me wonder a couple of things.

1- Do models ever receive lengthy emails or PMs praising their work? It seems we always see posts about lengthy email/ PM complaining about something a model either did or failed to do. I'm just wondering if there are any that tell the model how great a show was or how much a member enjoyed a video or whatever. You know, like fan mail. Or is that only kept to tips and rating and admiring?
I receive long (not this long) "review" mfc mails from a certain fella after each custom video he get's. It's seriously the highlight of the whole process for me! :D
 
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As a general rule don't give a model advice unless she asks for it :/ Its not the same as selling a product, we are selling our bodies and personality. If you don't like something about a model, simply hit next. If she's being whiny and shitty, then she's going to dig her own hole and learn the hard way. Sending her a big long message, for the most part probably won't be taken as helpful, caring advice. All shes going to see is "Hi, XY&Z is wrong with you. Of course I can totally understand how you feel, because your job/life are so simple!" whether or not thats what you meant. In the real world, any context, unsolicited critique is rarely well received.
 
I think you meant well and I can tell that you tried to relate to her and say it kindly, but I do think this was out of line. No model really wants a long message from a premium telling her how to act, even less so if it's someone they don't know well.
 
LacieLaPlante said:
I get rebellious and want to do the opposite of what the person wants.

Don't take your clothes off, bb. But if you do, you absolutely positively must not - under ANY circumstance - take photos and post them in this thread. That would be the worst :-D
 
This wouldn't bother me because I wouldn't read it all unless it came with a tip. :lol: Hehehe. Time consuming, unsolicited advice and veiled bashing from men doesn't work for me. However, if it were from a successful camgirl whom I admired, I'd read it at least twice.
 
Jessi said:
In the real world, any context, unsolicited critique is rarely well received.

.... especially by those with huge egos that already know everything. :lol: :lol:
 
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Like Evvie, I read it as if you had written it to me.

I would have mixed feelings about it. I can tell you wanted to be helpful. However, a lot of the understanding and empathy you try to convey gets lost in the length of your sentences as well as all the details you include. Some sections could have been left out or phrased differently so that it might be easier for the model to digest. She's more likely to take advice if she doesn't feel offended.

I don't mean to pick apart your letter, I am just trying to consider ways that what you wrote could be interpreted.
I could see how a model would think you were trivializing her feelings by discussing how you can relate to her situation, such as "You think you have it tough? Well, let me tell you about my tough times." I can tell that you were trying to explain how you can relate, but if she is on the offensive it might not seem that way to her. Further down, you even say you know she has the right and reason to feel the way she does.

Each model is so different there is no way to know how she took it. You might be ignored forever or just until she realizes you were trying to help. I can't even say for sure how I'd react because my mood can vary from day to day.

Had this letter been sent to me, I would probably be upset. I don't think I'd be angry with you... although I'd think I was at first. I hope I'd be smart enough to eventually consider what took you lots of words to say and try to make some changes.
 
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Man that was difficult to read :lol:

If I were a model, and received that imposing wall of text

My questions/thoughts would be:

1. It reads to me like the act prompting this email was ignoring you in chat, Is this the case?
2.Quote "But other than that, I have little regard for what others think of what I do b/c its out of the norm" -Why are you asking our opinion then??
3. The whole tone of the email to me is wrong, it might be just the way it is written but there is very little actual help or advice in there
4. When conveying empathy, probably best to avoid the phrase "Who promised you fair, it was not I"

All in all, I think you probably meant well but move on
 
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SoTxBob said:
Jessi said:
In the real world, any context, unsolicited critique is rarely well received.

.... especially by those with huge egos that already know everything. :lol: :lol:

I thought it was common sense that you wouldnt do that unless you know someone very well. :? Maybe manners are different where Im from.
 
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Trying to post a reply to a lot of posts that I want to reply to is not easy -_- my brain RAM is very limited at the moment. I need an upgrade.

@lordmagellan:

This is my fourth attempt at trying to figure out how to say this as succinctly as possible:

Not all performers or creative types want critiques or criticism from random people.

But more importantly: Random people often know so little about the situation that their advice, positive or negative, should not be taken in to account.

When I become irritated that someone has sent me advice or comments on what to do, it is not because I am hurt that they did not like me. It is because I am irritated that they believe they are better than my community, and my mentors, and the people I trust and talk to. That is where I get my criticism and critiques.

On the other hand, in response to #1:

Do models ever receive lengthy emails or PMs praising their work?

I can say that I have never encountered this in any form.

When I do a show well, there's lots of happiness going around but after the fact I don't hear about it unless I specifically bring it up again.

If I disappoint my Internet masters, I will hear about it in messages, when I'm chatting with members even days later, Twitter DMs, everything.

The current trend seems to be that if a model has failed at something, she needs lots of messages and support to make her feel better. But if she does very well, then that's its own reward and she doesn't need any more support or praise.

Protip: It's okay to be nice to your models. Negative reinforcement has its place, but is not always useful or appropriate.

@ Camstory:

I have to say I really did pick apart your message, when I didn't really need to. I feel I was just channeling my inner camlady angst when this kind of thing comes up. It was my opinion from the start that you were definitely just trying to help out, but it came off in a way you didn't intend.

Also, considering how much negative comments models get, a positive comment ("I'm on your team!" versus "I feel you should be trying harder") definitely stands out. With all the crap a popular model is likely to get, negative comments just start to be white noise and you don't even hear it anymore.
 
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On MFC, I had gotten a whole three "I loved that!" style emails, but none of them were very long. Unless I stopped camming for a week, then I'd get a lot of "gee, you were really sexy, when do you think you'll be back?" emails, which I guess might count as positive?

Also, sometimes a guy would actually take the time to rate and comment the private, which I can always see.

On streamate, I've gotten that many in about half as much time camming...

However, on streamate occasionally I get a mail that says "after our private I tipped you 5 gold as a way of saying "thanks for the show!" " which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
 
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