Was I Out Of Line?

[RogueWarrior]

I used to be a pretty regular contributor to this forum. Recently, not so much. So I should give a bit of a background for those that don't recognize me.

I tip. Sometimes just because. Some of the models here know that I sometimes just do a driveby tip and leave. Regardless, I try not to be an ass, and I tip. And I know tipping doesn't doesn't give carte blanche. That's why I threw in trying not to be an ass.

Anyway, I was in a model's room for the 2nd or 3rd time. We kind of had a musical sympatico going on. We like the same type of music. She has in her topic to tip X for one song or Y for two songs. Two songs was definitely the better deal.

Previous times in her room, I'd tipped fro song requests. We seemed to be getting along OK. Then the third time in her room, things got sideways.

Everything was cool for a while. I had tipped for songs a couple of times. I had even tipped some just because. I tipped for another song request and she wanted to play a couple songs before that. Cool. One of them was a really cool cover that I had never heard. I asked, in public chat, who did that song. Ignored. At this point, she's playing the songs I requested. I PM her asking who did the cover of that song. She says to tip her for that info.

At this point, I'm thinking I could google it and find out, no big deal. But I offer an alternative. l wasn't planning on it, but I'll tip for another 2 songs and you give me the identity of the band. I thought that was a fair deal. She says, Nope. 2 songs are Y and anything else is extra.

I understand that models are on MFC to make money. I don't have an issue with that. But I had just tipped 3x what she was asking for the info (that I could find out on my own) asking for nothing.

To me, that just smacked of token whoring. I kinda pissed me off.

Thoughts?

 

[Nordling]

Yeah, not having been there, but from what you've said, I think I'd be a little miffed myself, and probably leave. Asking what song is playing is one of the most innocent and common of questions. I've never seen a model ask for tips for that information before.

 

[Gen]

I don't think you were out of line at all. Obviously she can run her room how she wants but I wouldn't want to hang out with someone who was nickel-and-diming me. Paying for answering sexual questions, sure, but the name of a band? I wouldn't be into that.

 

[ACFFAN69]

Did you do something wrong? Nope, absolutely not.
Did she do something wrong? It depends how you look at it. Technically she did not, she has no rules to abide by, short of the rules that MFC specifies (assuming this was on MFC). She is running a business though and this seems like a very poor business decision.

The best thing you can do is answer with your presence and tokens, move on and forget about her. I'm sure you've already decided to do that though. There are some other great models out there to enjoy.

 

[LacieLaPlante]

Next time try Shazam and don't deal with that attitude. I think not giving a BAND NAME is bitchy, but that's just me. That's public information, not secret. She's not like, a professional DJ and I'm sure a DJ would still tell you who the song was by.. for free.

 

[RogueWarrior]

Thanks. Yes I could have easily found out via google, shazam or whatever. That wasn't the point.

The last thing she said was "I'm not here to haggle". So that kind of stuck with me.

I was actually going to tip more. The attitude is what pissed me off. I thought I was being fair, I just wanted some model's (and member's) opinions.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Yeah, I'd be put off by that too. I think that it's a bit out of line to asked to be tipped to tell you the name of a band imho.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Thanks. Yes I could have easily found out via google, shazam or whatever. That wasn't the point.

The last thing she said was "I'm not here to haggle". So that kind of stuck with me.

I was actually going to tip more. The attitude is what pissed me off. I thought I was being fair, I just wanted some model's (and member's) opinions.

That seem petty and bitchy to me, I'd definitely move on.
As a bit of an aside the "I'm insulted that you tried haggle with me" is really annoying.
Negotiation is part of all businesses. The sex industry is no exception, porn stars, strippers, and hooker all routinely negotiate price. I don't see what is so special about camming that grants an exemption to negotiation. Now nobody (other than the rug merchants in the grand bazaar in Istanbul) likes to get offered a lower price for what they are selling, But sometimes camgirl prices are so out of line for what other models are charging that I can't justify paying their asking price. I'll generally just wait for a sale, but if you offered 1/2 off yesterday and somebody offers you the same price today, you shouldn't feel insulted.

 

[RubyDimples]

Greed was coursing through that models veins and I hate to sound like a bitch...

but charging for casual conversation that isn't sexual related.... is well pretty greedy if you ask me.

 

[RogueWarrior]

Again, thanks.

I have received enough input where I feel alright about what I did. Feel free to carry on, however.

 

[YelloMit]

Don't worry dude, I've come across models like that in the past and they are simply just trying to horde as many tokens as humanly possible. I'd be pissed off too, so don't feel bad or anything like that.

Luckily, awesome models far outweigh the shit ones.

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

I'm pretty much echoing what everyone's saying, but this sounds like not only did you do nothing wrong, her behavior was not just unpleasant, it was peculiar. You'd already done some tipping including at least once without asking anything for it. Sounded like you were getting along, and I don't know if you'd been chatting with each other much, but that's a strange thing to get upset about. Seems like she essentially just chased a worthwhile member out of her room for no apparent reason. That's shooting herself in the foot.

Maybe something you're unaware of, either from you or someone else, got her pissed off. The only other thing I can think of is it could be she's someone who sells playlists and felt like you were trying to get a part of hers for free. If that's the case, I would think she'd just say that you can get her playlist for X tokens. Given your prior tipping, it's hard to see you as trying to get away for something. You'd already tipped more than you had to for what you'd requested up to that point. And if she doesn't do the playlist thing, why would she see asking about a song as a problem? Music is obviously a thing in her room, and you'd think she'd be happy to chat about it at least briefly with someone who's been a plus to her session so far.

Unless there was something significant going on that we don't know about, I'd say you were not a bit out of line. Seems like she was out of line, or at best, handled a misunderstanding badly.

 

[Fay_Galore]

She probably didn't pay for the commercial royalty rights to play that band's music live on cam, and she's álso not sharing their names, screwing thém out of a potential fan too!

 

[JickyJuly]

If she can't tell the difference between a dude trying to get something for free and a dude making conversation, camming isn't going to be a very enjoyable trip for her. :lol:

 

[mynameisbob84]

Nah, you weren't out of line. She sounds at best a bit silly and at worst incredibly greedy. I'd move on to another room :twocents-02cents:

 

[PlayboyMegan]

It's a fine line between negotiating, haggling, making money, and alienating potential tippers.
If I have a set price, I do not appreciate haggling. But charging for innocent questions seems like a sure way to alienate potential tippers.

Ex:
"Can I get your 200token video for 100tokens?" Not okay.
"What's your favorite color?" Okay.

 

[Ataboy]

It's a fine line between negotiating, haggling, making money, and alienating potential tippers.
If I have a set price, I do not appreciate haggling. But charging for innocent questions seems like a sure way to alienate potential tippers.

Ex:
"Can I get your 200token video for 100tokens?" Not okay.
"What's your favorite color?" Okay.

Meh!! When in business for yourself, I find set prices a little overrated. A topic that reads: "Vids for sale, pm me for prices" then negotiate when they do may actually generate more interest. I am not saying sell your b/b/b/b/b/g gangbang vid for 20 tokens obviously. But a vid you think is worth 300 tokens is probably ok for 200 as well. Coming from the travel industry, I can tell ya that no one pays the same rate, and the employee is never to discuss one customers rate to another, nor is the employee to say it out loud. So, I would also require this tip, when made, to be suppressed from the others in the room. I believe in camming/nerd lingo we call these "ninja tips". Maybe you'll sell 5 of these at 200 and make 1000 rather than just 1 at 300. If by chance the member decides to be funny and tell the room what he paid anyways...dont worry about it. Maybe others will pm ya looking for the same rate and ya sell more vids..who knows. Those who paid more...just tell them thanks again. If youre worried that your vid might be going out to too many people, just realize that the moment you send it out once..youve sent it out 1000 times...more even!!

 

[ACFFAN69]

It's a fine line between negotiating, haggling, making money, and alienating potential tippers.
If I have a set price, I do not appreciate haggling. But charging for innocent questions seems like a sure way to alienate potential tippers.

Ex:
"Can I get your 200token video for 100tokens?" Not okay.
"What's your favorite color?" Okay.

Meh!! When in business for yourself, I find set prices a little overrated. A topic that reads: "Vids for sale, pm me for prices" then negotiate when they do may actually generate more interest. I am not saying sell your b/b/b/b/b/g gangbang vid for 20 tokens obviously. But a vid you think is worth 300 tokens is probably ok for 200 as well. Coming from the travel industry, I can tell ya that no one pays the same rate, and the employee is never to discuss one customers rate to another, nor is the employee to say it out loud. So, I would also require this tip, when made, to be suppressed from the others in the room. I believe in camming/nerd lingo we call these "ninja tips". Maybe you'll sell 5 of these at 200 and make 1000 rather than just 1 at 300. If by chance the member decides to be funny and tell the room what he paid anyways...dont worry about it. Maybe others will pm ya looking for the same rate and ya sell more vids..who knows. Those who paid more...just tell them thanks again. If youre worried that your vid might be going out to too many people, just realize that the moment you send it out once..youve sent it out 1000 times...more even!!

In theory this works, but when you are also running a room and entertaining 10-50 other potential tippers, you will end up grinding your show to a complete halt haggling with someone in PM. The show is what sold the video on the first place (most likely), so that should take priority, thus set prices seem like they would be quick and easy.

In the annoying members threads, you can see all kinds of people trying to haggle things, some will do it for excruciating amounts of times (maybe even just because they want the models direct attention via PM). I can't imagine many models wanting to do this every time they want to sell a video. I know there would be a ton of cheapskates pm'ing asking for videos for ridiculous prices as well.

You might end up selling more videos (or may even end up selling less by overshooting the price), but you will hurt the show, potentially making a whale tipper leave who otherwise might have stayed.

I'm interested in seeing if this would work, I am open to the idea that I may be incorrect. It would take some fantastic multi-tasking.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

It's a fine line between negotiating, haggling, making money, and alienating potential tippers.
If I have a set price, I do not appreciate haggling. But charging for innocent questions seems like a sure way to alienate potential tippers.

Ex:
"Can I get your 200token video for 100tokens?" Not okay.
"What's your favorite color?" Okay.

Meh!! When in business for yourself, I find set prices a little overrated. A topic that reads: "Vids for sale, pm me for prices" then negotiate when they do may actually generate more interest. I am not saying sell your b/b/b/b/b/g gangbang vid for 20 tokens obviously. But a vid you think is worth 300 tokens is probably ok for 200 as well. Coming from the travel industry, I can tell ya that no one pays the same rate, and the employee is never to discuss one customers rate to another, nor is the employee to say it out loud. So, I would also require this tip, when made, to be suppressed from the others in the room. I believe in camming/nerd lingo we call these "ninja tips". Maybe you'll sell 5 of these at 200 and make 1000 rather than just 1 at 300. If by chance the member decides to be funny and tell the room what he paid anyways...dont worry about it. Maybe others will pm ya looking for the same rate and ya sell more vids..who knows. Those who paid more...just tell them thanks again. If youre worried that your vid might be going out to too many people, just realize that the moment you send it out once..youve sent it out 1000 times...more even!!

I respectfully disagree.
I like to view myself more as a family owned store. If the member is a regular and tips well, I MIGHT give him a discount. If someone buys videos in bulk, discount. But if a new guys comes in my room and is acting like it's a yard sale, ban. I just find it incredibly disrespectful.

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

It's a fine line between negotiating, haggling, making money, and alienating potential tippers.
If I have a set price, I do not appreciate haggling. But charging for innocent questions seems like a sure way to alienate potential tippers.

Ex:
"Can I get your 200token video for 100tokens?" Not okay.
"What's your favorite color?" Okay.

Meh!! When in business for yourself, I find set prices a little overrated. A topic that reads: "Vids for sale, pm me for prices" then negotiate when they do may actually generate more interest. I am not saying sell your b/b/b/b/b/g gangbang vid for 20 tokens obviously. But a vid you think is worth 300 tokens is probably ok for 200 as well. Coming from the travel industry, I can tell ya that no one pays the same rate, and the employee is never to discuss one customers rate to another, nor is the employee to say it out loud. So, I would also require this tip, when made, to be suppressed from the others in the room. I believe in camming/nerd lingo we call these "ninja tips". Maybe you'll sell 5 of these at 200 and make 1000 rather than just 1 at 300. If by chance the member decides to be funny and tell the room what he paid anyways...dont worry about it. Maybe others will pm ya looking for the same rate and ya sell more vids..who knows. Those who paid more...just tell them thanks again. If youre worried that your vid might be going out to too many people, just realize that the moment you send it out once..youve sent it out 1000 times...more even!!

Ack, I did not actually mean to thank the above quote (no disrespect meant, but I think it's off the mark). Is there a "reverse an errant thank option?"

Anyway, I really meant to quote the post and mention what I think is the problem with what it suggests.

I many cases (I would guess most cases) the models consider their prices for things to be set and not subject to negotiation. Some consider it insulting to try to haggle about it. Sometimes they'll offer special deals, but usually, they will post it in the topic, say it public chat, or tweet it if they do, and it's going to be an equal amount for every person that goes for the deal.

The biggest problem though is, even if haggling were considered okay, it would disrupt the flow of her room with everyone else sitting bored while someone tried to work out a deal. Nobody's going to tip for the privilege of seeing someone else try to buy a video, and any conversation, game, show, etc. would have to grind to a halt. That's bound to cost the model something and make her members enjoy their time there less. It's just not something that makes sense for the models.

I think some models will negotiate on certain things like Skypes or custom stuff, but that's generally done privately in order to avoid disrupting the room.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

It's a fine line between negotiating, haggling, making money, and alienating potential tippers.
If I have a set price, I do not appreciate haggling. But charging for innocent questions seems like a sure way to alienate potential tippers.

Ex:
"Can I get your 200token video for 100tokens?" Not okay.
"What's your favorite color?" Okay.

Meh!! When in business for yourself, I find set prices a little overrated. A topic that reads: "Vids for sale, pm me for prices" then negotiate when they do may actually generate more interest. I am not saying sell your b/b/b/b/b/g gangbang vid for 20 tokens obviously. But a vid you think is worth 300 tokens is probably ok for 200 as well. Coming from the travel industry, I can tell ya that no one pays the same rate, and the employee is never to discuss one customers rate to another, nor is the employee to say it out loud. So, I would also require this tip, when made, to be suppressed from the others in the room. I believe in camming/nerd lingo we call these "ninja tips". Maybe you'll sell 5 of these at 200 and make 1000 rather than just 1 at 300. If by chance the member decides to be funny and tell the room what he paid anyways...dont worry about it. Maybe others will pm ya looking for the same rate and ya sell more vids..who knows. Those who paid more...just tell them thanks again. If youre worried that your vid might be going out to too many people, just realize that the moment you send it out once..youve sent it out 1000 times...more even!!

Ack, I did not actually mean to thank the above quote (no disrespect meant, but I think it's off the mark). Is there a "reverse an errant thank option?"

Anyway, I really meant to quote the post and mention what I think is the problem with what it suggests.

I many cases (I would guess most cases) the models consider their prices for things to be set and not subject to negotiation. Some consider it insulting to try to haggle about it. Sometimes they'll offer special deals, but usually, they will post it in the topic, say it public chat, or tweet it if they do, and it's going to be an equal amount for every person that goes for the deal.

The biggest problem though is, even if haggling were considered okay, it would disrupt the flow of her room with everyone else sitting bored while someone tried to work out a deal. Nobody's going to tip for the privilege of seeing someone else try to buy a video, and any conversation, game, show, etc. would have to grind to a halt. That's bound to cost the model something and make her members enjoy their time there less. It's just not something that makes sense for the models.

I think some models will negotiate on certain things like Skypes or custom stuff, but that's generally done privately in order to avoid disrupting the room.

Haha! I did the same thing!!!
But I totally agree with everything you've said!

 

[BlairLuxe]

Sometimes I try to imagine conversations from MFC in any context but a camming site. If you were in another business, say, a coffee shop. The owner is still going to be trying to make money, but if you ask them what song is playing in the coffee shop, they're not going to demand that you put a dollar in their tip jar first. That's bad for business. And also, that would never happen in that context. I can understand you being upset about that. She's hurting her business and making less money, though, in the end.

 

[RogueWarrior]

Way off topic:

I have stayed away too long. I miss this. Familiar people & new one's as well.

 

[AmberCutie]

Ack, I did not actually mean to thank the above quote (no disrespect meant, but I think it's off the mark). Is there a "reverse an errant thank option?"

It's ok to thank posts that lend to great discussion!

I do think this thread turned into something very helpful! Opinions and input on haggling and such is a great learning tool for both members and models!

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Not down with haggling. All about taking advantage of good deals but won't ever try to get the model to lower her prices on anything. Not my style and can totally see how some would see it as disrespectful.

 

[bsurs]

Re: Haggling

[negotiating for videos ...]
You might end up selling more videos (or may even end up selling less by overshooting the price), but you will hurt the show, potentially making a whale tipper leave who otherwise might have stayed.

I'm interested in seeing if this would work, I am open to the idea that I may be incorrect. It would take some fantastic multi-tasking.

I think haggling makes sense if the price is high enough and the volume is low enough that it's worth it (for both sides) to spend extra time negotiating each transaction. Unless it's a custom video (where you'd expect some amount of negotiation anyway), I doubt it makes sense for most videos.

Speaking for myself, I'd probably be *less* likely to buy a model's videos if it looked like every buyer was expected to negotiate their own price. I get that some people don't mind haggling (so it's probably best for a model not to act offended if it happens), but it's not really something I like to do when I'm buying pre-packaged entertainment.

Nothing wrong with reducing prices for occasional deals, though.

 

[Shaun__]

Re: Haggling

I hate haggling, and most models are going to feel insulted if you tell them they are not worth what they are asking I would think.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Not something I'd personally ever do, but I can see why some guys would haggle, or attempt to. Videos, pic sets and the like aren't physical products and they don't (typically) cost the model anything (other than her time and effort) to manufacture (I'm assuming things like cameras, lighting, costumes, toys, etc. are things they already have and aren't buying specifically for the videos) and distribution is free, so it's impossible for a model to lose money on this content (generally speaking) and whatever they sell at, it's all profit for the model. So with no manufacturing/distribution costs, model's content is either priced in line with the market or another pricing strategy is used, which no doubt will make complete sense to the model, but to the buyer may as well be completely arbitrary. "Your video's 750 tokens? Why not 700? Or 500?". And just like that, you have a haggler, who you can either ignore, or enter into the haggling process with.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Anyway, I really meant to quote the post and mention what I think is the problem with what it suggests.

I many cases (I would guess most cases) the models consider their prices for things to be set and not subject to negotiation. Some consider it insulting to try to haggle about it. Sometimes they'll offer special deals, but usually, they will post it in the topic, say it public chat, or tweet it if they do, and it's going to be an equal amount for every person that goes for the deal.

The biggest problem though is, even if haggling were considered okay, it would disrupt the flow of her room with everyone else sitting bored while someone tried to work out a deal. Nobody's going to tip for the privilege of seeing someone else try to buy a video, and any conversation, game, show, etc. would have to grind to a halt. That's bound to cost the model something and make her members enjoy their time there less. It's just not something that makes sense for the models.

I think some models will negotiate on certain things like Skypes or custom stuff, but that's generally done privately in order to avoid disrupting the room.

I agree in public chat it is disruptive. However, Rogue said he PM her and didn't sound like the room was super busy.

I appreciate that many models like Megan find it insulting. I find off-putting that models are insulted by anything that appears to be haggling like in this case. If you don't want to negotiate a simple "I don't bargain" or my prices are my fixed is fine. If the guy persist by all means be insulted or ban him. But to me to be insulted when someone simply offers you a price lower than you are asking, displays a thin skin. It is not a good lesson to learn in your life beyond camming.

Nobody likes to have their prices questioned, but the flip side is that nobody likes to be ripped off. The negotiation process is allows both buyers and sellers to reach a compromise both sides can live with. Now I agree if the model is selling videos for 25 tokens and you offer 15 trying to get to 20 that is just dickish. But many camgirls service represent several hours of labor for the buyer, to be insulted simply cause the guy is trying to save himself an hour of OT, for the video you made and already sold 40 times... I don't get it.

Models understandably complain when guys put them on pedestals. Yet the reason given on why negotiate is somehow verboten with camgirls, is it is a special profession and the intimate nature makes it wrong to negotiate. I am baffled why camming is more intimate than prostitute negotiating with a John, a porn star negotiating pay for a scene with the producer, or Stripper negotiating what goes in the private room. I'd be happy to reconsider my position if someone would explain what makes camming unique.

Finally , I'd point out that any many cultures it is an insult to not haggle with seller. So the Qatar prince would be insulting you if he didn't try to negotiate even if he is worth 100 million.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

I think haggling is especially disrespectful because of how many models have flash sales. There is a top model I adore and can't afford so I keep tokens in my premium account for when her videos or snapchat go on sale and then I buy them up. I do that because I couldn't afford to buy them otherwise so in that case yes, she is getting money she wouldn't otherwise get.

I do understand that selling things for less for some people may end up in more income in some cases. I think it just is something I don't find to be worth it. Great members, like most people here, aren't the majority of our experiences. I would think 9/10 times the person haggling isn't even going to take you up on a discounted rate. Like I don't do Skype shows because I was wasting so much time talking to people about them and they never paid or went through with them. So even if I made money off them, I would still be losing money by wasting my time. If that makes sense?

If you insist on negotiating a price I would just suggest doing it with a model whom you know well and doing it through MFC Mail rather than pm.

All that said, if a member asked for a lower price I won't get upset. It's when they ask twice that they get hit with a ban.

Edit: in regards to private messaging in an empty room. It is still a disruption! People pop in our room every other second. If we are caught up in a pm when someone pops in, they are going to pop right back out. A big part of camming is sometimes entertaining an empty room