Very confusing thread...
I feel
@Cal_blue is getting mixed up with a few different things.
Sociologically speaking we are and always have been controlled by our society regardless of money. This is one of the things which makes us a successful race, that we survive together and learn from one another. It's actually really interesting thinking about how much of our individual personalities are due to our culture or our nature. Desiring to live completely outside society means you lack the basic instincts which have led to our society surviving so well. It's actually a really strange desire, humans need contact with other humans. Without it can result in mental illness. It's similar with other pack/herd animals. For example you're not supposed to keep horses alone where they can't see other horses because it makes them miserable. The norms of what's acceptable in society can be changed, and some people are less influenced. But you just can't get around being part of the hive and in some way being controlled.
Money is how we trade, it is very useful for this as it means we can trade for all different things. As a camgirl I could get paid in gift vouchers for a specific store, but money allows me to trade with lots of other places rather than one. In a very small village/society you could handle living with no money as you could easily trade with different people to get what you want. In larger societies this just doesn't work.
Now what I think Cal is getting at (I could be wrong)... is consumerism and people hoarding large amounts of money and then exerting power over others. I agree, if we had a situation where all electricity disappeared and we were all living for survival that money would no longer exist as it's mostly digital, nor would it hold any value in comparison to essentials. For very wealthy people, much of their money they'll never actually spend, and there is just no need for it.
150 years ago I know in the UK there were not more opportunities, absolutely the opposite. I don't know about the USA, but I will agree that in the UK it has become much harder to own a property in recent years. There are many opportunities but with that there are also more people reaching for them which can make it harder. If I wanted to go and live off the land right now (which I have looked into) it would be pretty difficult for me to do. I would need a decent financial start up, while if you went back say a few thousand years perhaps I could have found my own plot of land and had a go at growing my own food. Then again, lots of people died of starvation back then so I'm not sure how well I'd fare without the back up of a supermarket.
You could say we're wage slaves being forced to work, but whatever you do, you're going to have to work. If you grow your own produce then that's hard work. You'll need to grow extra or do something else as a trade for things you need to survive but cannot grow. All of this is hard work, much of it more backbreaking than a job. And at least in current society we can choose what job we want to do. For example I don't want to be a farmer, nor do I want to bother with farming my own food. I have that luxury that I have the time to pursue other careers because I don't need to farm my own food. I don't even need to cook for myself!
I do like the idea of a communal society, but this is very difficult in larger societies without heavy policing. The !Kung San are an interesting culture to look at in terms of living a truly communist society. One which sadly is being destroyed by western influences. They don't have a leader as such, they do to a point but they don't have any more power and women were as respected as the men. There are all sorts of customs about not taking glory when you win a hunt (you tell everyone it was someone else who got the kill) and everyone gets an equal share of food. They also have open huts which meant domestic violence was not a problem. Since western influences this has changed, for example putting doors on huts meaning domestic violence rose, and various stuff about owning stuff which caused issues, which does show some level of toxicity in western society.
I do agree that there are problems with current society, though I feel people are also becoming more aware of this. The problem is, where do you want freedom to end and dictatorship to start? Money is useful, wealth and consumerism is not, I will agree with that. But we have the freedom to become wealthy, and we have the freedom to consume. You could put a stopper on wealth and say once it gets past a certain point it needs to be given away. This is control though, and people like the idea that they could get wealthy and have a life of comfort and luxury. You could also tell people they're only allowed to buy essentials, but you then remove people's freedom to do what they wish with their money.
I think the only thing that you could control without controlling people is advertising and media influences. Media is edited to sell, so you could call that a type of brainwashing. It is why junk food adverts are controlled around meal times and you don't get smoking adverts.
I guess what it comes down to is choice and free will. If I were a working woman in this country 100 years ago I would be working double what I'd work now and would not be able to afford luxuries, and definitely not spend time on the computer. In modern day I have a few options with free time, I either go for a walk, stay at home entertaining myself or watching tv/on a computer or I spend money on activities. If I choose to spend money then I will never save up, but life will be a bit more fun! If I do the free stuff I can save for something exciting later on! The great thing about money is it doesn't rot away and I can always sell it for what I want to buy. We have this choice of whether we want to consume, it's a luxury that people do not need. But we have the choice.
In current society it would be very difficult to live without money, I have looked into it and in my country it is currently impossible. There is a man who does this and lives off very little, but he still does need some. And that is scary, but then again, we also have access to so much more than people did in other ages. I can save up money for a few months working a minimum wage job and go travelling around the world, with a currency that I can bring with me so I'm not asking people to give me stuff for free!
Anyways, silly thread. I've heard people having these rants before, it's often followed by how you can get food out of super market bins... As though the food came out of thin air! And many of the people I meet who talk about this stuff claim benefits. Benefits which wouldn't exist if others didn't work and pay taxes.
It's a lovely fantasy that everyone could be given the same no matter what work they put in and without putting value on each job. But there will always be those who'll want more recognition, more ownership etc. Due to this it remains a fantasy.
even I can see the humor in that lol
