VFWs Ban NFL?

[AudriTwo]

They don't want to anger all of the brown dudes, do they? They don't want to just make business decisions and deal with the consequence. The want black men on the field, and they want them on the sidelines like trained dogs. But, they don't legally have a right to demand that. So, they rile up the public tools and here we go.

Whooooooa. Total speculations. If anything they want their employees to be happy. They also clearly understand and respect why they choose to do it. Sure, black men tend to go into athletics more than white men, but I think it's shitty to talk about their success as compared to dogs. These men are just more than players. Off season they are usually so involved with their local community. They are so much more then entertainment. That's disgusting to assume most humans view other humans with different skin as nothing more then pawns, because that isn't true.

Sure there are some assholes, but don't let those assholes cloud your judgment on other people.

 

[AudriTwo]

And there we have it...

People are blinded by their craving to be angry, maybe.

Because there are real issues to care about. These are distractions. No we want to focus on real issues and probably solve them.

 

[JickyJuly]

I definitely feel large corporations, like the NFL, view their employees/players as pawns. I stand by what I said. The only reason they have those dudes standing for the flag is to increase young, black military enrollment. It's an unpaid endorsement deal.

 

[AudriTwo]

I definitely feel large corporations, like the NFL, view their employees/players as pawns. I stand by what I said. The only reason they have those dudes standing for the flag is to increase young, black military enrollment. It's an unpaid endorsement deal.

really? do you have actual proof of this? or you just speculating?

 

[JickyJuly]

really? do you have actual proof of this? or you just speculating?

Our defense department has been under fire from politicians for years for "paid patriotism". They've spent millions getting sports teams (not just the NFL) to make shows. I'm speculating the purpose of spending that money, but it seems like it could only be to boost enrollment and boost support for more military spending.

 

[AudriTwo]

Our defense department has been under fire from politicians for years for "paid patriotism". They've spent millions getting sports teams (not just the NFL) to make shows. I'm speculating the purpose of spending that money, but it seems like it could only be to boost enrollment and boost support for more military spending.

my uncle was a recruitment officer for the air force, it's because the demographic they want to join the military are young athletic men. skin color is irrelevant.

 

[JickyJuly]

my uncle was a recruitment officer for the air force, it's because the demographic they want to join the military are young athletic men. skin color is irrelevant.

That's your speculation. I've made mine. If they want all the rich white, sporty kids I wonder how much they are paying the PGA, swimming or tennis associations for paid patriotic shows?

 

[AlexaCrush]

my uncle was a recruitment officer for the air force, it's because the demographic they want to join the military are young athletic men. skin color is irrelevant.

Let's be real though. If those young athletic men are coming from an upper class family, they're not going to join. If a recruitment officer is any good, they know the people most likely to join are the people who need to join because they didn't do well in high school/dropped out/can't afford college/don't have great prospects for the future otherwise. Young people of color are more likely to be in that group because they're more likely to live in areas with shitty schools blah blah blah. They might not be targeting people specifically because of color (my boo's dad is a recruiter as well), but statistically speaking that's who ends being more likely to be on their radar for recruitment.
I'm not going to speculate how that ties into the NFL and all that because I've honestly never watched a game of football in my life and have no idea how the NFL works, but as far as recruitment itself goes people of color are more likely to be on that list, even if they're not targeted directly.

 

[AudriTwo]

That's your speculation. I've made mine. If they want all the rich white, sporty kids I wonder how much they are paying the PGA, swimming or tennis associations for paid patriotic shows?

no that is a fact. like i said, my uncle was in recruitment for the air force. they do fund recruitment ads because THEY WANT ATHLETIC PEOPLE TO JOIN THE MILITARY. They also have the same displays of the singing of the national anthem, and military presence as other sport events. of course not as spectacular as some NFL ones, but people go to these games to be entertained.

You are making some crazy conspiracy claims.

 

[AudriTwo]

Let's be real though. If those young athletic men are coming from an upper class family, they're not going to join. If a recruitment officer is any good, they know the people most likely to join are the people who need to join because they didn't do well in high school/dropped out/can't afford college/don't have great prospects for the future otherwise. Young people of color are more likely to be in that group because they're more likely to live in areas with shitty schools blah blah blah. They might not be targeting people specifically because of color (my boo's dad is a recruiter as well), but statistically speaking that's who ends being more likely to be on their radar for recruitment.
I'm not going to speculate how that ties into the NFL and all that because I've honestly never watched a game of football in my life and have no idea how the NFL works, but as far as recruitment itself goes people of color are more likely to be on that list, even if they're not targeted directly.

But everyone watches sports. Not just young rich white men.

 

[JickyJuly]

I'm not making conspiracy claims. They paid a ton of money. John McCain urged the leagues to apologize and donate it back. Openly recruiting is different than paying millions of dollars to a handler to get athletes to sneaky do your recruiting for you. We all have family in the armed forces. We all know who is valuable. Once the NFL took that money, they had financial interest in getting those dudes to stand. They're not paying them more to do so. It is an unpaid endorsement for them. That would be reason enough for me not to stand there.

 

[AudriTwo]

I'm not making conspiracy claims. They paid a ton of money. John McCain urged the leagues to apologize and donate it back. Openly recruiting is different than paying millions of dollars to a handler to get athletes to sneaky do your recruiting for you. We all have family in the armed forces. We all know who is valuable. Once the NFL took that money, they had financial interest in getting those dudes to stand. They're not paying them more to do so. It is an unpaid endorsement for them. That would be reason enough for me not to stand there.

but did they donate back? did they? it seems like you are making red lines to want to fit your narrative. until i get some hard proof, sure.

 

[AlexaCrush]

But everyone watches sports. Not just young rich white men.

*never watched a game of football in my life*
Yes, lots of people watch. But the incentives used to get people to join are often only really useful to people coming from poor backgrounds. I can think of 10+ people offhand I know who've been in the military and only one of them came from a wealthy background, and the only reason she joined was because she got some crazy patriotism buzz after 9/11. I've talked to her about it and she fully admits that she is a weird outlier; kids who can afford to go to Swedish boarding schools don't join the military, and those kids usually aren't black.

 

[JickyJuly]

but did they donate back? did they?

I didn't look that up. It doesn't matter to me if they did or they didn't. Taking it was sleazy enough to make restitution irrelevant to me.
Side note: I really like you, but you type in bold letters, capital letters and get snarky way too often to try to hand out chill pills. I mean, I'd take one if I could. But, you're not super in the position to be suggesting them.

 

[AudriTwo]

*never watched a game of football in my life*
Yes, lots of people watch. But the incentives used to get people to join are often only really useful to people coming from poor backgrounds. I can think of 10+ people offhand I know who've been in the military and only one of them came from a wealthy background, and the only reason she joined was because she got some crazy patriotism buzz after 9/11. I've talked to her about it and she fully admits that she is a weird outlier; kids who can afford to go to Swedish boarding schools don't join the military, and those kids usually aren't black.

maybe because the military offer career options. benefits, housing, ect. of course people of lower wealth with flock to that, but that isn't inherently bad.

 

[AudriTwo]

I didn't look that up. It doesn't matter to me if they did or they didn't. Taking it was sleazy enough to make restitution irrelevant to me.
Side note: I really like you, but you type in bold letters, capital letters and get snarky way too often to try to hand out chill pills. I mean, I'd take one if I could. But, you're not super in the position to be suggesting them.

even if it's irrelevant, you are making claims with no proof. only looking at things at surface value.
--
i do that try to get my point across. i didn't mean it to be snarky. and i gave you a chill pill because i like you and i think you were making crazy claims. sorry if my intentions came off malicious.

 

[AlexaCrush]

maybe because the military offer career options. benefits, housing, ect. of course people of lower wealth with flock to that, but that isn't inherently bad.

I never said it was bad, I said that people of color are more likely to join because they're other options tend to be more limited. Again, I'm not trying to say anything about the NFL in regards to these comments, just that it's disingenuous to think that people of color don't get targeted more frequently for recruitment if only because they come from backgrounds that make the likelihood of them recruiting more likely. I'm not trying to paint it as good or bad, just that it is.

 

[AudriTwo]

I never said it was bad, I said that people of color are more likely to join because they're other options tend to be more limited. Again, I'm not trying to say anything about the NFL in regards to these comments, just that it's disingenuous to think that people of color don't get targeted more frequently for recruitment if only because they come from backgrounds that make the likelihood of them recruiting more likely. I'm not trying to paint it as good or bad, just that it is.

how would you define them being targeted more frequently? poc recruitment are high, but i think that has to do with more economics then racial intentions.

 

[AlexaCrush]

@AudriTwo

If a recruitment officer is any good, they know the people most likely to join are the people who need to join because they didn't do well in high school/dropped out/can't afford college/don't have great prospects for the future otherwise. Young people of color are more likely to be in that group because they're more likely to live in areas with shitty schools blah blah blah. They might not be targeting people specifically because of color (my boo's dad is a recruiter as well), but statistically speaking that's who ends being more likely to be on their radar for recruitment.

But the incentives used to get people to join are often only really useful to people coming from poor backgrounds

people of color are more likely to join because they're other options tend to be more limited

it's disingenuous to think that people of color don't get targeted more frequently for recruitment if only because they come from backgrounds that make the likelihood of them recruiting more likely

Did...did you even read anything I wrote? That's literally what I've been saying this entire time.

 

[AudriTwo]

@AudriTwo







Did...did you even read anything I wrote? That's literally what I've been saying this entire time.

i did. sorry my brain is going 100 miles an hour. i was gonna add i think we are agreeing and was trying to clarify, but i walked away before i could hit save.

sorry im just trying to have a discussion here. do you think they purposely go out to target poc? because i feel like that's what some people see when they look at the data at surface level.

 

[JickyJuly]

To be fair, I do actually need a chill pill. I've cried over 3 things already today. One of them was not having enough rice for my meatballs. That's how not chill I am. Still, I admitted that my guesses as to why paid patriotism was a thing for the NFL was speculation when asked. It's not that crazy to speculate that poc are targeted more for military recruitment is it? Or to speculate that the young men who idolize black athletes most would also be black? Recruiting for the military involves some immorality. I mean, they set up at high schools to collect anyone who's turned 18 they can rope in. If you do well on your ASVAB, they'll call you a million times before accepting a no. I do think they target POC. I think they target low income areas and places where young adults are less likely to have family involvement or better options.

 

[dilligaf0]

It's an unpaid endorsement deal.

I have actually seen articles that it was a paid endorsement deal. The government paid the NFL for patriotic displays (teams standing for the anthem, flyovers and giant flag displays). The teams used to be in the locker rooms when the anthem was played.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...d-patriotism-problem?utm_campaign=sharebutton via @VICESports
I don't see evidence any particular race or athletic ability was targeted. It seems it was a general targeting to increase volunteers.

 

[AudriTwo]

To be fair, I do actually need a chill pill. I've cried over 3 things already today.

Still, I admitted that my guesses as to why paid patriotism was a thing for the NFL was speculation when asked. It's not that crazy to speculate that poc are targeted more for military recruitment is it? Or to speculate that the young men who idolize black athletes most would also be black? Recruiting for the military involves some immorality. I mean, they set up at high schools to collect anyone who's turned 18 they can rope in. If you do well on your ASVAB, they'll call you a million times before accepting a no. I do think they target POC. I think they target low income areas and places where young adults are less likely to have family involvement or better options.

there is nothing wrong with asking questions and speculate. but i think they don't intentionally try to recruit POC. POC happen to be more likely to join because of their economic backgrounds. which is a good thing, because it lifts another family of color out of poverty. but of course it's not that simple

 

[AudriTwo]

I have actually seen articles that it was a paid endorsement deal. The government paid the NFL for patriotic displays (teams standing for the anthem, flyovers and giant flag displays). The teams used to be in the locker rooms when the anthem was played.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...d-patriotism-problem?utm_campaign=sharebutton via @VICESports
I don't see evidence any particular race or athletic ability was targeted. It seems it was a general targeting to increase volunteers.

seems like it's been a thing for awhile, even under Obama: https://www.flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=50cbadae-2f8b-4015-a4df-ed94b5eeaea3

 

[JoleneBrody]

I have actually seen articles that it was a paid endorsement deal. The government paid the NFL for patriotic displays (teams standing for the anthem, flyovers and giant flag displays). The teams used to be in the locker rooms when the anthem was played.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...d-patriotism-problem?utm_campaign=sharebutton via @VICESports
I don't see evidence any particular race or athletic ability was targeted. It seems it was a general targeting to increase volunteers.

I think that's what jicky was saying. The NFL was paid but the players were not

 

[dilligaf0]

seems like it's been a thing for awhile, even under Obama: https://www.flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=50cbadae-2f8b-4015-a4df-ed94b5eeaea3

I don't think who the president is / was matters on the timing. I believe it was becoming evident that these wars were going to drag out for much longer than expected and people were less willing to volunteer (since we no longer draft people like in the past).

 

[bud9752]

To be fair, I do actually need a chill pill. I've cried over 3 things already today. One of them was not having enough rice for my meatballs. That's how not chill I am. Still, I admitted that my guesses as to why paid patriotism was a thing for the NFL was speculation when asked. It's not that crazy to speculate that poc are targeted more for military recruitment is it? Or to speculate that the young men who idolize black athletes most would also be black? Recruiting for the military involves some immorality. I mean, they set up at high schools to collect anyone who's turned 18 they can rope in. If you do well on your ASVAB, they'll call you a million times before accepting a no. I do think they target POC. I think they target low income areas and places where young adults are less likely to have family involvement or better options.

just because you said you needed it

 

[dilligaf0]

For those that maintain veterans would not protest like this, I humbly submit this.
This happened as the Presidential motorcade passed by in Indianapolis, Indiana.
September, 2017.

 

[AudriTwo]

 

[Bocefish]

I think that's what jicky was saying. The NFL was paid but the players were not

So the NFL is being paid by the government for promoting esprit de corps, but the poor players have to settle for their millions without the government aid?

FWIW, I was sent a survey on the issue, but it was so bloated with presumptions I blew it off.

Not sure if you can see the results via the following link but the results were spread... https://iava.org/anthem/