Trump has banned Transgender people from the military

[Fatquack]

Of course it's not about the costs (those are not even a rounding error in the US military budget) it is once again a distraction tactic. And it works, onfortunately.

 

[zippypinhead]

The Joint Chiefs of Staff have commented that they had no idea that Trump was going to pull this. This isn't about the U.S. government doing anything, this is all about our Shitposter in Chief, his ego, his image, and his ridiculous attempts to rake up muck to obscure the view of more pressing matters.

 

[Val Vega]

No harm whatsoever provided they joined to serve their country instead of having their surgeries paid for.

How would you fix that issue?

Are you really so fucking naive to think people do not join the military mainly for the benefits? There are very few people that join thinking "By golly, all I ever want to do is serve my country and all else be damned!" I guess you got one of those OHMIBODs or Lovense's stuck in your ear and it scrambled your brain.

 

[SavannahQ]

Come on... let's not beat around the bush, this has nothing to do with "costs". Costs are just an excuse for people's transphobia. We are talking about a group of people who have been consistently discriminated against and rejected from society. While there is still plenty of homophobia in the world, being gay has had a lot of emphasis put on becoming normalised. While becoming transgender is still a relatively new concept in terms of being normalised in society. There are many people who fear the idea of it and don't like the idea of people not fitting into perfect gender categories. I don't know if America is the same as England, but here there have been people in the Army who have received plastic surgery, nothing to do with trans people. Looking at the figures, the potential costs of transgender people within the military would be nothing compared to how much is already spend on current medical bills. Besides that if someone is already transgender, they hardly need to go through an operation do they? Surely there could just be a rule that the military will only pay out so much in plastic surgery/hormones which would be equal to how much cisgender people would receive.

That there are people assuming that trans people will automatically be joining the army to get free surgery, and not, you know... Wanting to actually serve like anyone else, just shows how transphobic people really are. In the responses against them being able to join the military it goes by the assumption that the only reason they would serve is due to wanting free surgery. But of course it isn't free, you need to be in the military and may end up risking your life. Besides the fact that joining the military as a trans person probably wouldn't be all that great, just looking at how women are treated in the military is enough to show that. So hey, maybe it will persuade more trans people to sign up, but I doubt many (if any) would join the military for the sole reason of getting free surgery.

I believe that rejecting a group of people from the military causes significantly more problems than what it might solve. You are isolating a group of people and saying that cannot serve for their country, that is not dissimilar to telling the group that they now cannot vote. You are putting them outside of society, shunning them from a place where everyone else is able to enter. If they have a dream growing up of fighting for their country but also happen to be trans, they now cannot live out their dream. By doing this it says that transphobia is ok. It confirms that trans people are "less than" everyone else and not worthy of the same rights. You segregate that group.

this is a very well articulated post that emphasizes the importance of the matter: this is transphobic discrimination no matter which way you look at it. there is no other reason why trans people were specifically targeted. even if it was meant as a "distraction," it was still a transphobic distraction, and one that will directly, tangibly effect the lives of roughly 15,000 active duty military personnel. these are people who critically need access to medical care who will potentially be left searching for another job just to keep them afloat. this cannot be treated as just an intangible, whimsical, passing distraction, it has real life consequences for thousands of people. and yes, there are a lot of legal hurdles the administration will still have to jump through, but that doesn't take away from the fact that our president (and vice president, don't forget that Mike Pence is one of the most cruelly anti-LGBT politicians out there. oh, and his domestic policy adviser. the list could go on, Trump has surrounded himself with bigots) has a vendetta against the LGBT community.

No, I'm just saying Trump isn't motivated by ideological reasons. We woud hear about his transphobia before he became the president.

let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he wasn't purely motivated by ideological reasons. that does not change the fact that purposefully and specifically targeting trans individuals and trans individuals only is still transphobic, has real life consequences for thousands of people, and is 100% discrimination.

It does not if you read this one: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/...ederal_law_doesn_t_protect_gay_employees.html
The Attorney General argues the current federal law doesn't protect gay employees. It used to simply be interpreted that way.
The LGBT rights groups can now push for the proper anti-discriminatory legislature.

of course the Attorney General argues this. Jeff Sessions has a history of anti-LGBT sentiment and practice. do you see how Donald Trump has surrounded himself with people who will willingly implement anti-LGBT policies for him? also, the LGBT community should not be glad about having to fight for "proper" anti-discriminatory legislature. they should be protected. full stop.

 

[n_i_c_u]

I remember in 1994 when "don't ask, don't tell" was a huge thing during the Clinton administration. I didn't know this, but a staff member on the Howard Stern show said he had to sign some of form when entering the military stating that he isn't or wasn't gonna become gay ( around the 8:12 mark). Odd stuff.

Women got approved to perform in combat in 2013 (?) and that was a big deal too.

Not sure when any other races besides males of white skin color were allowed to perform duties in the military but I am sure that has been an issue in the past.

It really is amazing how our military is the best in the world considering all the internal distractions it has faced thru the years.

Part of me thinks Trump saw the latest Game of Thrones episode and saw Theon jump off the ship and that made him want to tweet (kind of half joking there).

 

[Marley Magdalene]

If he is talking smack, look at what else is going on that they aren't talking about.

1. There is nothing he can actually do about Trans people in the military
2. Trans people at large couldn't give two shits about signing up to be a bullet catcher. They are more concerned about getting proper healthcare, including their hrt and surgical interventions, dealing with disphoria that comes with choosing what bathroom they feel comfortable using at a given moment no matter what state they live in, and if someone might just decide to let them die because they came to a christian hospital. They couldn't care less about serving a country that gives no shit about them and their right to live. This opinion is being expressed all over my partners trans forums. (This also summarizes his thoughts on this matter)
3. This is all a major distraction to cover up the vote on healthcare, and all the other scandalous shit coming up about him, his family, and his associates. He would rather be under fire for talking shit about trans people, because he KNOWS the media loves being PC right now and attacking him about that stuff.

 

[JickyJuly]

It's not even about the trans folks. The President of the United States is TWEETING lies. He's attempting to circumvent our country's checks and balances. The draft dodging rich boy is trying to bypass actual military rulings and declare some soldiers unworthy. It's dirty, but he knows his base will cheer it. The same people who will run around yapping about supporting troops and wearing POW shirts are so desperate to feel like they're better than someone, anyone, that they will walk past homeless vets like they're nothing. These are Trump's people. Unless he's tearing into them, they're cheering him on. But, anyone who is fine with his Tweeting pretend policy like a king is not a patriot. Anyone who is fine with the freedoms of others' being snapped away in 140 characters by a foolish old man who's wanking it to army man games is not a patriot.

 

[opphs]

would you be this contentious about someone joining the military for the superior healthcare benefits? I think most people join the military for a variety of reasons and the benefits (school, healthcare, housing) are ultimately what make it worthwhile for a lot of them.

do you really think that trans people are making the decision to potentially die in combat solely for selfish purposes? and if they really are joining exclusively to pay for reassignment surgery, even if it means being subject to the horrors of war, doesn't that speak volumes to how essential it is for trans people to be able to live out their lives as their authentic selves?

Wish there was a stronger option than "Agree" for this one because so much YES

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Keep in mind that it's not just Trump who does things to detract from what's going on. Other Presidents have done it as well. Especially the previous two....

I'm prior military, and I have no issues with whatever a person wants to identify as, nor are, so long as they can perform the tasks they are assigned (I also disagree with physical standards being lowered). What I do have issues with is when they force things to accept what shouldn't be shown in military uniforms. For example: beards, long flowing hair on women, turbans and hijabs, visible religious items (necklace, etc), etc. Issued military items only, and regulations exist for a reason.

 

[heybarkeep]

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/27/16051892/trump-transgender-ban-army-chief-staff

President Donald Trump said his decision to ban transgender people from serving in the military, announced via Twitter on Wednesday morning, came “after consultation with my generals and military experts.” It’s becoming clearer and clearer that he was lying.

Secretary of Defense James Mattis was on vacation when the decision was announced, and privately opposed the move. The Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine Gen. James Dunford, said Thursday that the military wouldn’t implement the ban absent a formal, non-tweeted order from the commander in chief.

And then there were the remarkable remarks that Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley made during a luncheon at the National Press Club.

During the lunch, Milley told reporters that he found out about the ban "the same way everybody else did — on the news." At the time, he was holding a glass of wine

Classic Trump. More at the link.

 

[AudriTwo]

You can't join if you have an abnormal PAP smear, so I wasn't really shocked.The military already discriminates on a lot of medical and social shit. If you got your dick cut off at some point you can't join.
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html

i still believe its bullshit and if someone who is able bodied and wants to serve, should. i also call bullshit on the costs. The medical budget is around 50 billion. It is estimated 2-8 million would be needed for trans-related services. https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ervice-members-would-be-minimal-studies-show/

 

[mynameisbob84]

At this point, I think I'm incapable of being disappointed or offended by Trump. He's like the guy who posts something ridiculous on Reddit, and you think about replying to them, pointing out why they're wrong, but you look at their other posts and realise that this is what they do. They spout the most offensive rhetoric they can because they know it'll get a reaction and it's that reaction they thrive on.

Trump is a little different in that his trolling can actually affect people's lives, and there's a point to it beyond just annoying strangers for lolz (keeping America divided to ensure that he can still rely on the support of those on the wrong side of that divide, distraction tactics, etc.) but Trump's gonna Trump no matter what. These days, my disappointment lies with those who support Trump's decisions. If places like Twitter and Reddit are anything to go by, there's sadly a lot of them.

 

[MiaCrash]

Yeah, it sucks. Every person should be allowed to participate in crimes against humanity and transgenders deserve the right to slaughter innocent arab children, too. Hillary would approve.

 

[Angel Lee]

How would transgender people in the military do any harm? They are people too.

Absolutely...he looks down on those who do not follow his ideal. His elitist ass needs to be out of office. The only scary thing about that is Pence running the country. The very man who supports "gay camps".

 

[Angel Lee]

I have never ever liked Trump. I think everything he does is disgusting and this just adds on another layer of shit he has already created. He most definitely has the lowest approval rate of any president at this point, but why am I still hearing people co-sign his bullshit? I feel like a lot of people are so supportive of him to spite democrats, not because they actually support what he does. Th whole fear of being wrong is plaguing a lot of people right now. God forbid anyone admit that maybe he isn't the best man to run a fucking country. I feel like its all about power with him.

 

[n_i_c_u]

Yeah, it sucks. Every person should be allowed to participate in crimes against humanity and transgenders deserve the right to slaughter innocent arab children, too. Hillary would approve.

Look, I don't think the US military is even on par with something like the Nazis (you are from Poland, MiaCrash?). But, yes, the US military has done horrible things during my lifetime in dealing with the commie threat--especially in South and Central America (government trying to strong arm a nation to get us cheaper coffee or cheaper bananas without a real threat--capitalism with the help of the US government, right?). Obviously we have a threat if videos of ISIS beheadings are making the rounds and 911 did happen? These threats seem interchangeable in terms of severity during my lifetime, but there always seems to be something. Casualties are a thing--almost impossible to not have civilian casualties (probably more reported now than during our fighting of Nazis).

It is interesting how much people these days WANT inclusion in the military considering that during the Vietnam war (sorry, not a war, but a POLICE ACTION, as my dad used to correct me) there were dudes getting rid of toes and acting gay and taking drugs just to be able to act crazy so they could get out of serving. The lengths that people hated being even possibly included in the military was astounding! Obviously not Trump, but, still:



Sure it was a draft, but, damn, if there was a draft now I would think that everyone on this board (aside from Force 10) would be doing everything they could to not get killed. But there is no draft, so I could be wrong.

 

[n_i_c_u]

Yeah, it sucks. Every person should be allowed to participate in crimes against humanity and transgenders deserve the right to slaughter innocent arab children, too. Hillary would approve.

Now that I think about it, maybe we WERE, and maybe still are, a really horrible military. It is obvious that this military supports certain acts of genocide thru it's history. It is weird: While I don't think the US military is at all like the Nazis, we have had our hands in the destruction of indigenous people, or just people, for the sake of capitalism and how it can do our nation good for longer than I was born. I would love the military to be more kind, but, I don't think any current or past presidents/arbiters of military rationale really care what I think. But, why would any one want to be a part of that if you don't have to be? I guess it is the benefits and money?

(honestly, your three line comment makes me think, and I hate thinking so much that I do tons of words )

 

[Ariana_]

Yeah, it sucks. Every person should be allowed to participate in crimes against humanity and transgenders deserve the right to slaughter innocent arab children, too. Hillary would approve.

Fuck U.S. imperialism, I would love to see it all burnt to the ground. But... It's "transgender people" not "transgenders". It might seem nitpicky but that little difference is pretty dehumanizing. Just like referring to black people as "blacks".

 

[Nikola Tesla]

Just like referring to black people as "blacks".

If blacks are not black people what are they then? What are you talking about?
Like Jews? Asians?

 

[Ariana_]

If blacks are not black people what are they then? What are you talking about?
Like Jews? Asians?

I'm not really sure how you're missing the obvious semantic difference there Saying "blacks" =/= "black people". One is inherently dehumanizing and reduces entire people to one characteristic. The other, while still descriptive, keeps in mind the humanity of said group. Linguistic choices are important as language shapes the world around us and informs our decisions and beliefs. It is vastly more common to hear "blacks" as opposed to "whites", and that's an inherent power imbalance. Also it's just a fucking weird thing to say???

 

[Guy]

I'm not really sure how you're missing the obvious semantic difference there Saying "blacks" =/= "black people". One is inherently dehumanizing and reduces entire people to one characteristic. The other, while still descriptive, keeps in mind the humanity of said group. Linguistic choices are important as language shapes the world around us and informs our decisions and beliefs. It is vastly more common to hear "blacks" as opposed to "whites", and that's an inherent power imbalance. Also it's just a fucking weird thing to say???

What about African Americans?

 

[Ariana_]

What about African Americans?

I mean, that's a whole different thing. I'm just talking about how describing people as "transgenders" or "Jews" or whatever isn't great when you can just add on the word "people" with zero effort. As a white person I'm definitely not qualified to talk about "African American" vs "black". But there's a lot of writing out there by POC on the subject! Here's an article for instance: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...erican_why_i_prefer_to_be_called_a_black.html

 

[heybarkeep]

Fuck U.S. imperialism, I would love to see it all burnt to the ground. But... It's "transgender people" not "transgenders". It might seem nitpicky but that little difference is pretty dehumanizing. Just like referring to black people as "blacks".

Did triggered Tumblr trolls (say that three times fast) decide this while taking a brief respite from blaming everything on the pure evil that is the straight white male or did actual black people come to this conclusion? If actual black people find it to be dehumanizing, changes need to be made to every news outlet and thousands of websites. My favorite hip hop forum has been dehumanizing themselves for over a decade now, I should inform them. They will surely appreciate a white dude telling them how they should feel. Would gladly remove it from my vocabulary if black people found it offensive or dehumanizing. Just sounds like something that bored white girls with nothing better to do would come up with. Lousy whites.

 

[MiaCrash]

Fuck U.S. imperialism, I would love to see it all burnt to the ground. But... It's "transgender people" not "transgenders". It might seem nitpicky but that little difference is pretty dehumanizing. Just like referring to black people as "blacks".

I don't think that a single word can have dehumanizing quality per se, everything is in context. Btw, English is not my first language so my sense for slurs may not be that sensitive.
But that's the problem I have with liberal identity politics, it is form over substance. Mispronunciations hurt you more than actual acts of dehumanization, based on material reality, like in this case U.S. imperialism and the damage it causes.
And don't get me wrong, I do think that this decision by Trump is political rather than economically justified, which is horrible, but I'm all for intersectionality. When the oppressed takes the side of the oppressor and becomes one, I no longer see them as an endangered subject whose rights should be defended.

 

[Ariana_]

I don't think that a single word can have dehumanizing quality per se, everything is in context. Btw, English is not my first language so my sense for slurs may not be that sensitive.
But that's the problem I have with liberal identity politics, it is form over substance. Mispronunciations hurt you more than actual acts of dehumanization, based on material reality, like in this case U.S. imperialism and the damage it causes.
And don't get me wrong, I do think that this decision by Trump is political rather than economically justified, which is horrible, but I'm all for intersectionality. When the oppressed takes the side of the oppressor and becomes one, I no longer see them as an endangered subject whose rights should be defended.

I'm not a liberal. And this isn't identity politics. It's a simple semantic shift that takes .5 seconds and more actively reaffirms the humanity of a marginalized group of people. And I disagree that mispronunciations "hurt more" than real, physical acts. They are what creates the environment for those actions to happen. A society that subconsciously and insidiously dehumanizes and "others" a specific group will have less difficulty taking advantage of and hurting said group. Language (in its many forms including body language etc) is the base for all of this.

 

[Ariana_]

Did triggered Tumblr trolls (say that three times fast) decide this while taking a brief respite from blaming everything on the pure evil that is the straight white male or did actual black people come to this conclusion? If actual black people find it to be dehumanizing, changes need to be made to every news outlet and thousands of websites. My favorite hip hop forum has been dehumanizing themselves for over a decade now, I should inform them. They will surely appreciate a white dude telling them how they should feel. Would gladly remove it from my vocabulary if black people found it offensive or dehumanizing. Just sounds like something that bored white girls with nothing better to do would come up with. Lousy whites.

I don't have a tumblr. And I have literally spoken to and heard from actual people that they dislike the term. It's fairly well known that it's a weird thing to say. Do you actually have any black friends (more than 1), or do you form all your opinions based off of a "hip hop forum" that you read??? Serious question.
Also, I think it's really telling that my original point was about how we refer to ALL marginalized groups, but y'all seized the fuck onto black people specifically. This is my cue to stick to the "models only" section of the site for a while lmao, bye!

 

[JoleneBrody]

Even the episode of 30 Rock I just finished made a joke of Jack saying "the blacks" (the source awards episode) it's super common knowledge that it's a not so appreciated term. How hurtful it is, I have no idea but I kind of assumed everyone would be able to get those jokes.

 

[heybarkeep]

do you form all your opinions based off of a "hip hop forum" that you read???

Not just hip hop but sports and piff too!
http://www.thecoli.com/

My point was that white people don't get to decide what black people are offended by. What white people think doesn't matter, we don't get a say. I'll continue to listen to black people on the subject and see ya.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Fuck U.S. imperialism, I would love to see it all burnt to the ground. But... It's "transgender people" not "transgenders". It might seem nitpicky but that little difference is pretty dehumanizing. Just like referring to black people as "blacks".

"If this was ACTUALLY about wanting an effective military, cishet white ppl are prob not even ideal. Fuck this. ~ Ariana"

Just want to make sure I understand this tweet correctly. Are you saying straight, non-transgender white people are probably not ideal for an effective military?

Do you feel the Empire would be better served by only letting POC and the LGBT community handle the messy business of killing and dying, while cishet whites stay back and oversee the management of the petrodollars?

If you ever emerge from Models Only, and if you can spare a few minutes (when you aren't speech-policing Poles), I would love to read more about your ideology.

 

[Ariana_]

"If this was ACTUALLY about wanting an effective military, cishet white ppl are prob not even ideal. Fuck this. ~ Ariana"

Just want to make sure I understand this tweet correctly. Are you saying straight, non-transgender white people are probably not ideal for an effective military?

Do you feel the Empire would be better served by only letting POC and the LGBT community handle the messy business of killing and dying, while cishet whites stay back and oversee the management of the petrodollars?

If you ever emerge from Models Only, and if you can spare a few minutes (when you aren't speech-policing Poles), I would love to read more about your ideology.

I was simply commenting on the fact that privileged, able-bodied, etc. white people, who currently make up the bulk of our armed forces, potentially lack the empathy and ability to cooperate that's necessary to form the most cohesive unit possible. There have been many studies on the fact that marginalized people possess more empathy and interpersonal skills. Ideally, we would have no military whatsoever. But if this administration is gonna fuck around and act like they do what they do "for the good of America/our military", I'm gonna make angry ranting tweets about humankind's endless ability to oppress and lie to each other. I have literally zero clue why me saying "hey let's not refer to people in vaguely offensive terms" got everyone all riled up. You and the rest of the angry white man brigade can stay the fuck off my social media though.

Also, what do Polish people have to do with anything?? Rhetorical question, please don't answer because I wont read it. XOXO