Time to give up viewing camgirls?

[Misono]

Be interested to know your thoughts on this.

I've been about as a paid up member on various camsites since 2010, and over the years have spent more money than I care to imagine, buying videos, privates, or just tipping for the hell of tipping. In that time, I've found a few faves, but people move on, and I then need to find new people to take their place.

The issue I'm finding though is that, the new breed of model at least, is incredibly iffy at times. I've had privates agreed for a time that a model has no showed on, despite going out of my way to make sure I kept to. No quick note to me to say why, despite most of them having me on a messenger of some sort.

I've also had a few customs ordered with regulars, and these obviously need to be paid up for in advance. The thing is, timescales which they then set come and go, and it's multiple models, not just the one. If it was a timescale I'd set, then maybe I'd understand, but before parting with my cash, I let the model decide on an estimated delivery time, because they know more about that kinda thing than I ever will.

Again though, the deliveries aren't kept, no communication is given, and they continue on cam as normal. Getting any replies at all isn't happening, although I'm too kind a person to publicly call them out in their rooms over this. Tonight's example is a model agreeing a price with me for content, then after I sent the agreed amount, demanding that I add on about 50% to cover all the deductions.

With this in mind, what would the ACF community advise for me? I want to buy your content, and I want to enjoy things, but it's vast becoming a chore. Is this just a cultural shift in model practices now, or am I possibly being unreasonable waiting many weeks for content that I was told would be filmed the following day?

 

[AriaAnderson]

I think this is just like dating - it's so hard to find someone who is actually a good person. Or having a boss. Or a flaky friend. Or any relationship. It's a hard fact of life - people are dicks.

(Lol, hard. Dicks.)

My suggestion would be to tip for small things like spanks, lil content deals etc before buying big things like customs. If a girl asks for more money after you agree on an amount, she's hustling you and you just need to leave and report her at that point. After a girl is reported a certain amount of times for fucking members over, MFC really notices.

As for getting stuff you've already ordered: send her a genuine message and ask what's up, tell her how excited you are for the video, ask her what she's planning on and when she will do it etc in a non pushing way.

I'm sorry you've had this experience.

 

[Diana Blake]

Like with any person you would put trust in, my advice is to always get to know them first. Especially when ordering custom content, it's better to know a models work ethic before investing. Does she show up when she says she will? When she promises new content "coming soon" does it arrive in a timely manner? If so, it's a good indication that she can be trusted to fulfill other requests.

That said, I know it can be hard sometimes to take the time to get to know a model only to find out she's not what you're looking for or not as reliable as you'd hoped but don't get discouraged. Perhaps try buying content outside of MFC? Places like manyvids have custom content from multiple models available with an expected turn around time listed and recourse if the model doesn't deliver. It's probably much easier and I know for a fact that a lot of MFC models have MV stores as well.

 

[Gen]

You could look at other sites for customs; I know MyGirlFund and ExtraLunchMoney both offer escrow systems so while you do pay upfront, the girl doesn't get her money until the video is delivered. It's not the same girls as on MFC (though obviously there's some overlap), but there are some great models on those sites, and you might have more success with a girl who's primarily a clip maker as opposed to primarily a live cammer.

I don't think you're being unreasonable, especially if the model sets the timeline. I quit offering customs because I couldn't stick to the timelines and then I'd panic; it's easy to see customs as easy money but if you can't produce what you agree to, you shouldn't be offering them. The burden is definitely on the model at that point, though i do suggest being friendly if you're messaging her, as like anything in life, things go more smoothly when you're friendly.

 

[Sevrin]

Pull back if it puts your mind at ease. You don't need to take a vow of chastity or anything. You've already mentioned that you have been frustrated with your interactions a lot recently. Maybe a break would be good.

 

[Osmia]

You could look at other sites for customs; I know MyGirlFund and ExtraLunchMoney both offer escrow systems so while you do pay upfront, the girl doesn't get her money until the video is delivered......

MFC really needs something like this. After a recent experience with non-delivery of videos I paid for, I am going to limit future MFC video purchases to only models that I know and trust. Which is unfortunate, because one reason I buy videos or other content is to "get to know" the model better: are there aspects of her persona (good or bad) that are not apparent from her public on-cam shows, might I want to do a private with her, etc.

@Misono, have you seen a pattern in this behavior? For example, is it mostly new(ish) models?

 

[Puffin]

I've also had a few customs ordered with regulars, and these obviously need to be paid up for in advance. The thing is, timescales which they then set come and go, and it's multiple models, not just the one. If it was a timescale I'd set, then maybe I'd understand, but before parting with my cash, I let the model decide on an estimated delivery time, because they know more about that kinda thing than I ever will.

As someone that wrote custom software for years, it's really difficult to estimate time scales and when you are experienced enough to do it accurately, you find the customer doesn't want to hear the real time scale. So, one easy way is to supply a date that the customer wants to hear and deal with it being late - or you simply don't offer to make custom stuff, an option some cam girls take. As a buyer, I recommend you add at least a 1 week and then double it. So if the estimate is tomorrow, it would be 1 day plus 7 days, then doubled means around 16 days time. If the estimate is 2 weeks(14 days), then in (14+7)x2=42 days time etc. That way you won't be so concerned about the common delays.

 

[Osmia]

As someone that wrote custom software for years, it's really difficult to estimate time scales and when you are experienced enough to do it accurately, you find the customer doesn't want to hear the real time scale. So, one easy way is to supply a date that the customer wants to hear and deal with it being late - or you simply don't offer to make custom stuff, an option some cam girls take. As a buyer, I recommend you add at least a 1 week and then double it. So if the estimate is tomorrow, it would be 1 day plus 7 days, then doubled means around 16 days time. If the estimate is 2 weeks(14 days), then in (14+7)x2=42 days time etc. That way you won't be so concerned about the common delays.

I developed custom software for years also, and I always tried to follow the maxim "under-promise; over-deliver." It's basically what you described, except that the schedule padding should not be excessive, should come from the model, not the customer, and she should strive to beat the deadline most of the time, thereby pleasantly surprising her customer. I know you're familiar with all this, and I'm not disagreeing with the idea of some sort of heuristic to realistically manage your production and delivery schedules. However, it should (ideally) come from the software developer/engineer (i.e., the model). As I mentioned in a previous post, a lot of the new models are very young and may have never worked in a job where they had to work on discrete projects, make commitments, meet deadlines, deal with contingencies, etc., even if their "customer" is just their boss.

Sometimes I wonder whether MFC should impose some sort of entry requirements for models--testing for some knowledge of basic business practices, safety issues, common questions like the fact that your show will be recorded, etc. I'm talking about something fairly easy; the vast majority of prospective models would be able to pass. I imagine MFC and the other cam sites would not want to do anything that reduces the number of potential revenue-generating models, but maybe a slight improvement in the quality of the members' user experience would more than compensate for the slightly reduced number of models.

 

[JickyJuly]

I'm the worst at custom requests. I only take ones that sound fun and tell myself I will get it done on dang time, but once it's hanging in the balance, I feel like a kid with homework or something. I think camming has so much cushion that it's easy to get spoiled about scheduling. If timing was a serious factor, I'd probably only order customs from people I knew were serious business about their camming I guess.

 

[caireen]

I'm sure you're not doing this, but for anyone else potentially reading- please never send money to a model for custom content unless she's agreed upon it first. This is a surefire way for me to take monthssss to get your stuff done (or just not have the camgirl do it).

In your case though (the OP)- I agree with what everyone else says. There are many camgirls that DO deliver what and when they say they will, and communicate with you if it's late. I'm honestly not sure how to pick them out or if there are characteristics they have that can help identify them. Maybe girls that tend to make a lot of customs or content already. I would be wary of any girl that rarely makes videos, because many girls that don't make videos a lot don't do it because they feel weird/self conscious making them, I think. So asking for a custom from a camgirl that has a hard time being satisfied with her videos will likely go wrong. But maybe not.

Yah, basically just know the girl first. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. I wish more camgirls were more professional!

 

[Misono]

Thanks for the responses all.

The models in question are established models, and have been around several years. Having looked around MGF and ELM, I've not really seen anyone that has caught my interest, I guess. I think I prefer to interact more with someone before buying content, and the models in question here are ones I've been active with for some time. I'll only place an order if the content is fully agreed beforehand, although always providing room for some creativity, such as gifting a rough outline of the things I want to see, then leaving scope for the model to get to those points.

I've brought pre-made things from ManyVids before, but again sometimes thought "That was a waste" as the content doesn't match the description. Also not finding many models from MFC that I view (preferences with other Brits/Australians) are using this option.

MFC could use an escrow style thing for customs, but it'll never happen. No model is going to make content either before they're paid on MFC, and that's just something to accept.

I'm probably just becoming way too grumpy for my late 20's though, given my recent amount of posts on similar subjects in the "Annoying models" thread.

 

[yummybrownfox]

Pricier things such as custom videos, Skype shows, etc...maybe save those purchases for the models you know well enough who you have on your friends list. Probably not the best idea to make bigger purchases like that on models you've just met 2 minutes ago (no disrespect intended towards those ladies, though). The models who are new for you and you hardly know...you should still tip them, of course, but maybe do smaller tips and tips for flashes and things like that.

 

[Misono]

Exactly how I already am. Still been let down on the models I've known a while.

 

[JoleneBrody]

If your primary interest in camgirls is purchasing custom videos, I hate to say I don't see this getting better for you... at least on MFC. Even the most trustworthy professional MFC models struggle with the anxious baggage custom videos come with, and I'm sure you've seen how the number of models even offering them has gone down dramatically, myself included. (rightly so of course, if you know you will not deliver don't offer)

Don't know if you're looking for advice but if you were, I would advise dropping custom video purchases and just focusing on having fun live with the models on screen in real time, maybe just enter raffles or auctions for customs with less weight on them... I dunno.

 

[Serenity_Tam]

Check twitter.

See how the gal interacts there. It will become obvious very quickly if the gal holds an attitude you wouldn't be compatible with. If your looking for live interaction.

If you need to take a break for your well being, do it.

Check out sites like customs4u or iwantcustomclips both make you pay, but the gal has to get the vid to you before it goes through in a set amount of time.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

For custom videos, iwantcustomclips.com

Here is my link https://iwantclips.com/custom_clip_orders/order/5565

I'm not promoting myself, I don't even do vanilla customs. However, you can see under extras where it says $70 for a male in the video. Other ladies have multiple things listed there so you would be paying up front for a specific outfit or any kind of extra. So there's no her messaging you after the price has been agreed upon. It is also an escrow system. A guy pays $$$ upfront and I don't get that money until I send the video and there's a time limit on how long I have to send it back to him. I believe for mine you can choose between 1 and 4 weeks and everyone always picks 1. It's no extra charge for it to be done within a week (for me, others may charge for this) and if I want to be paid for it I have to do it in that period of time. It's really great system. IWC is definitely a heavily femdom site but there are MFC ladies on there. If customs are a big part of what you're looking for but still want the camgirl room to hang out in then you could look up girls on IWC and see which of them are also on MFC.

 

[Osmia]

.... I'm sure you've seen how the number of models even offering them has gone down dramatically, myself included. (rightly so of course, if you know you will not deliver don't offer)

Why is that happening (the drop in the number of models offering them)? Is it mainly the hassle factor? (too much pressure for meeting deadlines, negotiating content and price, compared to the income it generates.?) I'm not into custom videos, mainly due to the uncertainty/risk (i.e., it's too much of a hassle for this member, too.)

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

Why is that happening (the drop in the number of models offering them)? Is it mainly the hassle factor? (too much pressure for meeting deadlines, negotiating content and price, compared to the income it generates.?) I'm not into custom videos, mainly due to the uncertainty/risk (i.e., it's too much of a hassle for this member, too.)

Custom clips are a huge headache and often are extremely specific and more often than not for me charged cheaper than the time and effort its worth. You have to first mentally play out if you can even do the damn thing, next settle on a price because 95% of the time the guy won't pay over $100 but they want a 10-15 min vid of some difficult stuff, then you go out and track down and purchase anything specific for it, next you plan out each scene and angle then set it up and tear up your entire house and lug cameras and lights around. Often times i need my roommate to film for me because tripod can't get particular angles (he also isn't factored into the pay equation..) and then after that you edit, render, and publish. That last part takes like 2-3 hours to do per 15 min clip. If you break it down if she's a popular model you're asking her for 3-4 hours of work on Avg...unless you're paying her her hourly on cam of course she's not going to like doing it for you and will put it off. But yeah... Members don't realize how intense customs can be. I had a guy ask the other day "omg how is that an $1100 video" about a turkey fetish giantess vore guy... Clip girls know who I'm talking about lol.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Why is that happening (the drop in the number of models offering them)? Is it mainly the hassle factor? (too much pressure for meeting deadlines, negotiating content and price, compared to the income it generates.?) I'm not into custom videos, mainly due to the uncertainty/risk (i.e., it's too much of a hassle for this member, too.)

my opinion is because custom videos are not self inspired, so instead of being exciting to film they feel like a chore that one particular person will be judging.
But hell, inspired filming is like... What I do. And that often means something will take weeks to "feel" right and actually shoot. However, I'm the only person who knows about it so it doesn't feel like pressure.

The decline IMO is because many models have learned that based on what members are willing to pay, their efforts are better spent doing other things that might be more enjoyable for them as well.

 

[Magnolia]

Okay, let me put it this way...

Sometimes us models get VERY overwhelmed. Especially when our room counts climb and we gain some sort of popularity. For example: I sell hand-crocheted hats, blankets, etc. It's a fun thing to do and a lot of people enjoy buying them. When I first started I said, "Hey! I love to crochet and I can finish a simple hat in an hour or two." You know what happened?

23 custom hats in a day fucking happened.

And not just simple hats, complicated hats that require me to design my own pattern. For those people I requested a bit more money, because it's required a bit (well, more than a bit) more work. I'll never forget someone telling me to piss off because I requested 200 more tokens for a hat that required multiple colors and an original pattern. It was overwhelming, something that should have just been a fun thing every now and then turned into a nightmare and caused me to lose ALL my free time trying to fulfill the orders. After I was done with those I raised my price, not by much mind you, and you know what happened?

NO ONE HARDLY BUYS FUCKING HATS ANY MORE

So it went from a fun thing to an overwhelming thing to something that I make almost no money on. People want things cheap, they want them quick, and they want them perfect. Well, you know what? We're only one person, most of us work all on our own and do everything ourselves.

"So what?" you might think, "Take an hour off of your camtime to do it or just do it on cam!" No no, my friend. It doesn't work that way. For some women an hour off of camtime means hundreds of potential dollars lost, and I did try crocheting on cam... yeah, no one was amused. Things like custom videos you can't do on cam, so no getting two birds stoned at once here. A lot of us put in 8+ hours of camtime a day and it seems more and more people pay us for work off-cam. You can't do both, you just CAN'T! So 8+ hours of camming, 3+ (if not more) hours of off-cam stuff like customs, 2+ hours of updated profiles/twitter/snapchat etc........

IT'S SO FUCKING MUCH, MAN. SO MUCH. HOLY FUCK. SO. MUCH.

I eat, breathe, and live camming and I still have a to-do list that is miles long. It's not like I don't try to get everything done or forget about you. The opposite! I remember EVERY DAMN THING AND FEEL SO GUILTY I HAVEN'T GOT IT DONE YET. Idk if this is what you're dealing with... but maybe just some food for thought to anyone reading through this thread. A lot of camgirls are testing the waters and don't have their time-frames quite worked out yet, be patient. And if you feel you've been cheated then ask for your money back or move on. I assure you most camgirls aren't just trying to take your money and run, sometimes a little patience is all that's needed.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Okay, let me put it this way...

Devil's Advocate: If a model is routinely taking money for customs only to find herself without the time/energy to make good on the transaction in a timely fashion, could it not be argued she should stop taking money for customs?

 

[Magnolia]

Devil's Advocate: If a model is routinely taking money for customs only to find herself without the time/energy to make good on the transaction in a timely fashion, could it not be argued she should stop taking money for customs?

Yes, which is what I personally did at some points. I've stopped all new orders for anything custom before. But some sense of understanding needs to be had, like when I offered a new thing and the first day 23 people jumped on it. It's completely ridiculous to expect me to make all of those and send them out the next day. Demand was far more than anticipated. I got it all done, just not in the time-frame I initially expected to do it. I try to be honest with people and tell them upfront that idk how long certain things may take me. If someone wants to trade their tips for something else or get their money back I'm always willing to oblige and I think other models should do the same.

It just gets very old having people jump down your throat if you don't get something done overnight....

 

[pocket sand]

I had really good luck with one girl and then nothing but bad luck when it came to customs. The one girl had pride and was honorable and was always on time. The others made me feel like I was dealing with children. Nothing but lame excuses and other garbage I've sadly come to expect from those in the adult entertainment industry. Which sucks because not all sex workers are lazy and honorless, but sex work sure does seem to attract the lazy and honorless in hordes. It really shouldn't but it frustrates me knowing how hard some work to be honorable and respectable and treat it like one would an important job because odds are the person you are working for won't notice or appreciate it. Odds are the next camgirl he sees will be one that thinks of sex work as quick and easy money that has zero pride and no problems with scamming people. Very frustrating.

Gave up on buying customs and usually just have them do it in private. No complaints since then.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

Why is that happening (the drop in the number of models offering them)? Is it mainly the hassle factor? (too much pressure for meeting deadlines, negotiating content and price, compared to the income it generates.?) I'm not into custom videos, mainly due to the uncertainty/risk (i.e., it's too much of a hassle for this member, too.)

I'll chime in here with why *I* think this is happening.

Hopefully you guys aren't this type but a lot of girls...Myself included usually run into this scenerio.

-Hey I would love a custom of you saying my name while you play with yourself...up for that?-

-Sure..that sounds great! I sell customs for 100 tokens per minute and my turn around time is about a week.-

-Tips 1000 tokens.
-For custom vid! Don't forget to say my name and I would really prefer if you have a white see through top...blue shorts...pink flip flops. Please play Britney Spears on loud speaker and Katy Perry second. Please film in outside where I can see your neighbors houses and yell loud while staying the alphabet backwards.-

The last sentence was possibly an exaggeration but this is typically what happens. You are then left in the weird limbo of either asking for more tokens and looking like a bitch or dreading making a video because of all the extra work, props, time, location, etc. Then you start putting it off because you become bitter at feeling dooped....or you are just annoyed.

The best way to get a custom in a good turn around time? Say everything that you want FIRST. Before tipping. Do not add anything. Do not pester the model about it. STILL visit her room and engage in conversations that have nothing to do with the video. At the end of the night sign off with a "I can't wait for my video! I want you to enjoy yourself though so no rush!".

I am being 100% dead serious when I say I look forward to making the videos for those people...which ends up making me do them sooner

 

[Misono]

I did also try the approach of doing them as live shows, or if it was going to possibly be slightly complicated and might need time between parts, a paid for Skype session. Didn't really work out either, as got all the yes messages before privates, then stalling during them. I don't expect things to happen straight away in a private, but if we're almost 10mins in and I've yet to see even a nipple, it's a bit shitty. Keep mentioning it, you're labelled as pushy, leave the private and you get all kinds of public abuse (had a nice model go on a twitter rant about me last time that happened, getting me banned from multiple rooms).

The Skypes, like the customs, never materialised, despite the model again setting the time. I wouldn't ever expect a model to come off cam specifically for one, but then blanking after it's been paid for is horrific.

This latest custom was approximately $200. I'm happy to pay for things, and probably more willing than other members at times. But that's a lot of money to end up being treated like dirt.

 

[Osmia]

Okay, let me put it this way.....

Thanks; that was very eye-opening. Like I said, I've never even requested a custom because it's not really my thing, but if I did, this would give me some much-needed context. It's as if, at a certain point, a model needs an assistant (I know some do), but I can also see how taking that step could make being a camgirl tilt more toward being regular work and not as intrinsically enjoyable as it started out being.

 

[Sevrin]

I think it might work out better if models who do well making videos created some mechanism where members could suggest what kind of content they would like to see, with no obligation on either the part of the member to buy it, or the model to make it. Models could review the suggestions, see if there was a common thread, and then make content in her own time that would incorporate some of those ideas that she would post for sale. Alternatively, models could hold video idea contests, rewarding the member whose idea she used with a free video, and offer that video for sale to the membership at large.

I'm sure some models already do something like this informally.

 

[AmberCutie]

With this in mind, what would the ACF community advise for me? I want to buy your content, and I want to enjoy things, but it's vast becoming a chore.

My advice would be to enjoy cam sites more for the LIVE aspect of it. Interact in rooms that feel comfy. And if you'd like some content, just buy premade stuff when your favorite girls offer it instead of making it a custom request. It's a much more laid back approach to the camming world, IMO.

Why is that happening (the drop in the number of models offering them)? Is it mainly the hassle factor? (too much pressure for meeting deadlines, negotiating content and price, compared to the income it generates.?)

I don't offer them for multiple reasons. Firstly being I don't really enjoy recording videos all that much. I usually would rather be live on cam. I am better at interaction when it's happening in real time than "performing" for a webcam that won't chat back to me.

Secondly, I don't think it would be worth it financially. It would probably take me 4x as long to complete a custom than it would do do one of my usual cam shifts. But I doubt many people would pay 4x the amount of tokens that I aim to make in a usual cam shift for one video. I imagine a lot of girls feel the same way and is likely the biggest reason not all cam girls offer customs.

Lastly, I also HATE "owing" anyone anything. Even when I offer simple fan signs and Twitter shoutout videos, I feel this nagging pressure/guilt until I get them done, which is usually within 2 days or so, max.

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

Thanks amber I hella needed help there with that interquoting shit lol

 

[MadJohnson]

Be interested to know your thoughts on this.

I've been about as a paid up member on various camsites since 2010, and over the years have spent more money than I care to imagine, buying videos, privates, or just tipping for the hell of tipping. In that time, I've found a few faves, but people move on, and I then need to find new people to take their place.

The issue I'm finding though is that, the new breed of model at least, is incredibly iffy at times. I've had privates agreed for a time that a model has no showed on, despite going out of my way to make sure I kept to. No quick note to me to say why, despite most of them having me on a messenger of some sort.

I've also had a few customs ordered with regulars, and these obviously need to be paid up for in advance. The thing is, timescales which they then set come and go, and it's multiple models, not just the one. If it was a timescale I'd set, then maybe I'd understand, but before parting with my cash, I let the model decide on an estimated delivery time, because they know more about that kinda thing than I ever will.

Again though, the deliveries aren't kept, no communication is given, and they continue on cam as normal. Getting any replies at all isn't happening, although I'm too kind a person to publicly call them out in their rooms over this. Tonight's example is a model agreeing a price with me for content, then after I sent the agreed amount, demanding that I add on about 50% to cover all the deductions.

With this in mind, what would the ACF community advise for me? I want to buy your content, and I want to enjoy things, but it's vast becoming a chore. Is this just a cultural shift in model practices now, or am I possibly being unreasonable waiting many weeks for content that I was told would be filmed the following day?

I think you might be doing MFC wrong. As Amber so clearly articulated, it's all about the camming.

Quite frankly, I think MFC makes for a poor marketplace and trying to use it as such is probably unwise. It offers none of the typical buyer protection that more transactional platforms (like C4S, ELM, etc) offer, and it comes with a very different culture in terms of both membership and models.

As for advice from this MFC member? I personally treat all money spent on camming in the same way I treat visiting strip clubs or casinos. I spend only what I can afford from my personal discretionary funds and I treat all expenditure as entertainment. If I tip a model I rarely expect something in return, and if I don't get something off a menu, I still had fun giving a pretty girl some tokens.

When I go private with a model, it's nearly always someone with whom I have a rapport and whose company I enjoy. I might be paying for her time, but I never view it as paying for anything more. Once I get her time, it's up to me to make her feel comfortable and interested in whatever we're going to be doing. I realize on this last part, however, I might be in the minority.

Don't spend more than you can afford to risk, and don't spend anything unless you are enjoying yourself while doing it.