The state of mind of pervs on MFC...

[LadyLuna]

First off to address something, an increase of non-tippers does NOT decrease the amount of tippers. In fact it is pretty much a given that if you have a greater number of Non-Tippers the number of tippers will also be greater (statistically). It seems like people focus on the wrong thing too often in chat rooms. If you have one person in your room and that person is tipping then 100% of your room is tipping. If you have 20 people in your room and 10 are tipping you have 50% of your room is tipping. If you have 100 people in your 30 are tipping then you have 30% of your room tipping. But focusing on the percentage is incorrect, the number of tippers you have is now 30 times greater than it was when you had 100% tippers. Non-Tippers should be viewed as advertisements. If a bunch of people in your room watching your show tell their buddies about you then you will end up with a lot more people not tipping and yet again a few more tippers. People who complain about the number of non-tippers want reap the benefits of popularity without exposing themselves to it.

While you are right in your example... what about the girls who DID see a reduction in tippers? Like me?

November 2009- Average room size, 40-60 people. Average number of tippers: 10.
April 2010- Average room size, 30-50 people. Average number of tippers: 3.
April 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tipper: 5
November 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tippers: anywhere from 0-20, but anything over 3 was VERY rare.

These are estimates based on my memories of events. The complaint is that where room counts have been the same or better, tips are somehow worse. Hence, people speculate on why it's harder to get tips when there's more people.

As time goes on, people who used to tip wander away from the site. If all that comes in are people with no intention of ever tipping, eventually there will be no more tippers.

 

[BoltEyeAm]

First off to address something, an increase of non-tippers does NOT decrease the amount of tippers. In fact it is pretty much a given that if you have a greater number of Non-Tippers the number of tippers will also be greater (statistically). It seems like people focus on the wrong thing too often in chat rooms. If you have one person in your room and that person is tipping then 100% of your room is tipping. If you have 20 people in your room and 10 are tipping you have 50% of your room is tipping. If you have 100 people in your 30 are tipping then you have 30% of your room tipping. But focusing on the percentage is incorrect, the number of tippers you have is now 30 times greater than it was when you had 100% tippers. Non-Tippers should be viewed as advertisements. If a bunch of people in your room watching your show tell their buddies about you then you will end up with a lot more people not tipping and yet again a few more tippers. People who complain about the number of non-tippers want reap the benefits of popularity without exposing themselves to it.

While you are right in your example... what about the girls who DID see a reduction in tippers? Like me?

November 2009- Average room size, 40-60 people. Average number of tippers: 10.
April 2010- Average room size, 30-50 people. Average number of tippers: 3.
April 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tipper: 5
November 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tippers: anywhere from 0-20, but anything over 3 was VERY rare.

These are estimates based on my memories of events. The complaint is that where room counts have been the same or better, tips are somehow worse. Hence, people speculate on why it's harder to get tips when there's more people.

As time goes on, people who used to tip wander away from the site. If all that comes in are people with no intention of ever tipping, eventually there will be no more tippers.

While I certainly don't have any statistical data to back up my statement and your sample size is pretty small as well with just one really large deviation (when you started?).

I would be very interested to see the total number viewers that don't tip vs the total number that tip for all rooms combined. To bad we don't have a MFC staff member available to run some statistics for us lol.

 

[Jupiter551]

While you are right in your example... what about the girls who DID see a reduction in tippers? Like me?

November 2009- Average room size, 40-60 people. Average number of tippers: 10.
April 2010- Average room size, 30-50 people. Average number of tippers: 3.
April 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tipper: 5
November 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tippers: anywhere from 0-20, but anything over 3 was VERY rare.

These are estimates based on my memories of events. The complaint is that where room counts have been the same or better, tips are somehow worse. Hence, people speculate on why it's harder to get tips when there's more people.

As time goes on, people who used to tip wander away from the site. If all that comes in are people with no intention of ever tipping, eventually there will be no more tippers.

I understand your point but what I would like to see, and data we have no access to is things like site revenue, both now and 2 years ago etc, site profit margin. If they were raking in cash (and let's face it at a cut of every token how could they not be) they might have just gone from insanely profitable down to massively profitable.

Not to sound callous because I think the situation sucks, but another thing to consider from the point of view of the site's success is - are the top girls making as much money? For this we need rough amounts for Miss MFC compared to past ones. If those amounts are continuing to rise well...I wonder what percentage of sitewide earnings the top couple of hundred models make? I expect a very large percentage.

 

[LadyLuna]

While I admit I'm only one example, if you look at the other threads around the forum you will see I'm not the only one who had this happen.

And while my main money was made within the first 6 months, I worked there on and off for almost 2 years. When I left, it had just taken another nose-dive. Every time it takes these nose dives, it does go back up again, but never back up to where it was before the nose-dive. If that makes sense.

I too would love to see some actual numbers from the guys up top, but I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[bodisha]

(really long post with lots of good points)
or feel they bare no responsibility to how much a member tips
(more of the post with a lot of good points)

Pretty much everything you said was awesome except this one statement. It's not my responsibility how much a member tips. I don't know how much is in his bank account, and I don't need to know that. He does. It's my responsibility to make sure I'm providing value for everything he does tip. (and I understand, this was said in the context of models who actually try to break the guy's bank, but it was disconnected enough that I thought others might take it as a thought of it's own.)

Luna,
Thanks for point that out, so I'll clarify it a bit better. The particular point I was making with that comment wasn't that a model is directly responsible for how often a member tips, or how much they tip.... But rather how a model behaves to incite a member to tip, or how they behave once the member has nothing left to tip. I don't feel the "typical" MFC member/model arrangement falls into that comment, but I do feel in certain extreme situations there is a degree of ethics involved with a model making a responsible living, as I would any occupation that involved sales.

You are correct, and ultimately the responsibility of tipping rests with the member, but I feel there are times MFC's policy, that "tips are gifts", becomes the source of an unethical catalysts. A policy I feel some models are willing to exploit in their favor. As an example, I cited an experience of my own that I considered to be unethical, with a model asking me to send her cash directly. I could easily have cited an example as simple as the time I paid 2k tokens for a custom video I never received instead, or any number of scam dates, or scam raffles I've see on MFC.

I also cited the opposite end of that spectrum with an example that impressed me a lot when it happened, and what I perceive as extremely ethical behavior on the side of the model. A model let a member, that had been very generous to her, know he didn't have to continue to tip her. Instead of trying to encourage him to hit the tip button more, she choose to look out for his best interest. He did continue to tip (At least for a bit), but it was the willingness on her part that I found to be impressive.

I guess that moment could be boiled down even further, and her willingness to look out for "her" members could also be viewed as "good business". I know those simple word ("Stop... you've tipped enough") left a hell of an impression on me, and I would venture to guess on few other guys that made positive comments when she said it.

While an individual model will let her conscious decide how she will approach this particular subject. As a member, I can say I am more willing to tip a model that I trust to potentially have the presence of mind to consider the ramifications of my actions, than an insatiable one that can't get enough of my tokens, and would let me tip myself into homelessness, because she wanted a beefier paycheck.

Ultimately my point was both members, and models should behave responsibly, and respectfully towards each other, if they expect the other group to do the same for them.

 

[hornygods]

First off to address something, an increase of non-tippers does NOT decrease the amount of tippers. In fact it is pretty much a given that if you have a greater number of Non-Tippers the number of tippers will also be greater (statistically). It seems like people focus on the wrong thing too often in chat rooms. If you have one person in your room and that person is tipping then 100% of your room is tipping. If you have 20 people in your room and 10 are tipping you have 50% of your room is tipping. If you have 100 people in your 30 are tipping then you have 30% of your room tipping. But focusing on the percentage is incorrect, the number of tippers you have is now 30 times greater than it was when you had 100% tippers. Non-Tippers should be viewed as advertisements. If a bunch of people in your room watching your show tell their buddies about you then you will end up with a lot more people not tipping and yet again a few more tippers. People who complain about the number of non-tippers want reap the benefits of popularity without exposing themselves to it.

While you are right in your example... what about the girls who DID see a reduction in tippers? Like me?

November 2009- Average room size, 40-60 people. Average number of tippers: 10.
April 2010- Average room size, 30-50 people. Average number of tippers: 3.
April 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tipper: 5
November 2011- Average room size, 60-70 people. Average number of tippers: anywhere from 0-20, but anything over 3 was VERY rare.

These are estimates based on my memories of events. The complaint is that where room counts have been the same or better, tips are somehow worse. Hence, people speculate on why it's harder to get tips when there's more people.

As time goes on, people who used to tip wander away from the site. If all that comes in are people with no intention of ever tipping, eventually there will be no more tippers.

While I certainly don't have any statistical data to back up my statement and your sample size is pretty small as well with just one really large deviation (when you started?).

I would be very interested to see the total number viewers that don't tip vs the total number that tip for all rooms combined. To bad we don't have a MFC staff member available to run some statistics for us lol.

Statistics like these are hard to conduct, because of the highly varying environment and difficult to isolate variables.

I would make a statement about cause and effect: the increase in non-tippers, despite theoretically having no effect on the tipper-count, does change the model's income. First of all, there's the replacement ratio issue - when members inevitably leave the site for various reasons, if they're not replaced, then the tipper-count does fall for the entire platform. It has been speculated that this effect has been happening for a while since the economic climate has changed so radically.

Secondly, there's an additional factor going on - the expenditure per tipper changes accordingly. It's frankly depressing when nobody else tips with a large room-count, and thus those who do tip may tip less out of frustration, or lack of motivation (e.g. a train of tips which encourages participation). The model may sign out more quickly in order to save her cam-score from falling, thus again, acting as a way of discouraging tips. These cumulative effects are likely to have a significant impact on a model's earnings, so it would seem absurd to suggest that non-tippers being introduced would not have an effect if they're in fact replacing tippers.

This coupled with the recession (less expenditure in general, especially on luxury goods such as MFC), is likely to explain the fall in the income for many, if not the majority of models. It's a real shame.

EDIT - I think bodisha's absolutely right. The model exerts some influence on consumer behaviour, thus affecting the expenditure being made on the site.

EDIT 2 - I really like that post, actually. An altruistic gesture like saying 'you didn't have to do that, but thank you very much - I appreciate it,' or 'stop tipping - you've tipped enough already' is actually likely to have the opposite effect of what may seem to be tipping discouragement. It reinforces the idea that models aren't desperate, greedy women - rather, very friendly and caring women who provides a service. On a personal level, it gains my respect and thus I'm more likely to expend on them again if I could.

 

[BoltEyeAm]

Statistics like these are hard to conduct, because of the highly varying environment and difficult to isolate variables.

I would make a statement about cause and effect: the increase in non-tippers, despite theoretically having no effect on the tipper-count, does change the model's income. First of all, there's the replacement ratio issue - when members inevitably leave the site for various reasons, if they're not replaced, then the tipper-count does fall for the entire platform. It has been speculated that this effect has been happening for a while since the economic climate has changed so radically.

Secondly, there's an additional factor going on - the expenditure per tipper changes accordingly. It's frankly depressing when nobody else tips with a large room-count, and thus those who do tip may tip less out of frustration, or lack of motivation (e.g. a train of tips which encourages participation). The model may sign out more quickly in order to save her cam-score from falling, thus again, acting as a way of discouraging tips. These cumulative effects are likely to have a significant impact on a model's earnings, so it would seem absurd to suggest that non-tippers being introduced would not have an effect if they're in fact replacing tippers.

This coupled with the recession (less expenditure in general, especially on luxury goods such as MFC), is likely to explain the fall in the income for many, if not the majority of models. It's a real shame.

I'm willing to bet MFC already has these statistics already as it is all data-driven. MFC obviously tracks the the number of tips and when they happen (they have to), also it is pretty absurd to think that a webpages traffic is unknown to it's own webmasters. I query and analyze data all day long, I promise you MFC can give you some very exact statistics. The problem comes when someone else starts reviewing that data and starts making their own conclusions, the more you extrapolate from the data the greater chance of overlooking some important variable.

 

[Jupiter551]

it's also confidential info to MFC - they certainly don't want to give out statistics that their competitors to use. Common sense dictates that everyhint else aside, it's profitable to MFC ot they'd be cutting overheads (like bootin under 500 score models.

 

[hornygods]

Statistics like these are hard to conduct, because of the highly varying environment and difficult to isolate variables.

I would make a statement about cause and effect: the increase in non-tippers, despite theoretically having no effect on the tipper-count, does change the model's income. First of all, there's the replacement ratio issue - when members inevitably leave the site for various reasons, if they're not replaced, then the tipper-count does fall for the entire platform. It has been speculated that this effect has been happening for a while since the economic climate has changed so radically.

Secondly, there's an additional factor going on - the expenditure per tipper changes accordingly. It's frankly depressing when nobody else tips with a large room-count, and thus those who do tip may tip less out of frustration, or lack of motivation (e.g. a train of tips which encourages participation). The model may sign out more quickly in order to save her cam-score from falling, thus again, acting as a way of discouraging tips. These cumulative effects are likely to have a significant impact on a model's earnings, so it would seem absurd to suggest that non-tippers being introduced would not have an effect if they're in fact replacing tippers.

This coupled with the recession (less expenditure in general, especially on luxury goods such as MFC), is likely to explain the fall in the income for many, if not the majority of models. It's a real shame.

I'm willing to bet MFC already has these statistics already as it is all data-driven. MFC obviously tracks the the number of tips and when they happen (they have to), also it is pretty absurd to think that a webpages traffic is unknown to it's own webmasters. I query and analyze data all day long, I promise you MFC can give you some very exact statistics. The problem comes when someone else starts reviewing that data and starts making their own conclusions, the more you extrapolate from the data the greater chance of overlooking some important variable.

I don't think that was my point. Indeed, statistics on who receives the majority of tips and its distribution can all be easily recorded. However, the statistics on what precisely influences expenditure changes is more difficult because every girl has a unique personality, and as such there's too many difficult variables to isolate - 'beauty', 'personality', 'selflessness', etc. are all difficult to quantify, and thus difficult to categorize into data samples.

I don't imagine it to be an impossible task, but it would seem a strenuous task. I think I was referring to conducting the statistical analysis on a user/client level, as opposed to a webmaster level. It may be less relevant though, I'm uncertain.

The original argument about whether an introduction of more non-tippers would affect tipping. I answered 'yes', because I believe that premiums may be less inclined to tip if the ratio of tippers/non-tippers decrease, or if tippers are more quickly replaced by non-tippers (thus falling number of tippers) given that they (tippers) may leave the website at a faster rate due to reduced incentive/inclination to tip.

I think I could have worded my posts better. I do apologize for any miscommunication.

 

[Jupiter551]

Well yes MFC would have detailed statistics from month-to-month earnings, users, activity, sign-ups...but no way in hell they'd make them public. They're not a publicly listed company and their competitors would LOVE to get their hands on that info.

 

[AmberCutie]

But are the totals needed for Miss MFC dropping? Or rising?

Good question, I was wondering the same thing.

I'll see if I can get an idea of this. Hopefully next month I'll get a first hand look.

Wanted to update on this subject. Totals for top 20 are still rising. Hourly rate seemed to remain much lower than I became comfortable with in the 2nd half of 2011 though. At least for me.

The token requirements for the high teens in the list are what used to put a girl in the top 5 about a year or year and 1/2 ago.