The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethics!

[LadyLuna]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I think this should go here...

 

[Just Me]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

best way is to the change the culture. get people to frown upon on those who smoke or drink and automatically over time no one except a very few will do it. but no one wants to change.

Sadly, they don't.
I've received more frowns for not drinking. It's like they automatically assume that I have or once had a problem. Thankfully, they don't know the name I use in these parts! :lol:
Ironically, at my feet right now is my emptied milk glass from earlier tonight...

You think less tobacco smoking has not been a cultural change? In my lifetime it has gone from completely accepted everywhere in society to being treated like lepers if you smoke. Certainly, some of that is education, some are laws and some is cost but the cultural shift has been the biggest determination. Your friends, family and peers looking down a certain behavior tends to get results.

 

[southsamurai]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

the changes in brain chemistry and growth in children and teens is very high compared to use as an adult, and those changes become permanent in those cases. an adult will probably return to normative brain function anywhere from a few months to a few years later)

I don't think any of this is true. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/teens-marijuana-brain-tissue-alcohol_n_2331779.html Kinda relevant recent study.

very interesting! it contradicts some of the earlier studies i had read about when i was smoking herb still, but not completely.
i was speaking specifically of chemistry, not brain structure. and i havent found anything more recent on that. heck i cant even find the original study at the moment ( i have a nasty headache so 15 minutes of looking is all i can handle, but ill look again later on). if memory serves it alters dopamine and seratonin levels with long term use, and those levels stay lower if the long term use is in adolescence and before. might have been nor epinephrine instead... like i said my brain isnt firing on all 4 cylinders atm.
looks like the IQ drop is still verifiable though.
as a note, i took part in an experiment while i was smoking herb. my IQ dropped to 140 while i was high and didnt return to normal til 48 hours later. (no im not telling what my normal level is). the experiment was over a month and included other stuff beyond IQ testing.. which btw is much more fun while high than while not lol. physical coordination was unchanged for me, though reaction time was cut in half. my spatial reasoning was shot all to hell and back.. basically all but gone during my test.
it was done by Duke university and they wouldnt tell me how the other results came out at the time, and i never saw it published back then. gunna have to look it up now that a few years have passed and see if it has been now.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Did someone really just paste a load of images and say "Hey, look, they had a good successful life so therefore the drug cannot possibly harm your future"

*face palm*

As for the link to "Teen Marijuana use May Show No Effect On Brain Tissue" - really?

Oh look, I found one that shows it is damaging to long term intelligence of teenage users.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 34392.html

Does this mean we've a paradox? It doesn't affect the brain but it does? Or perhaps looking at a brain scan and not actually test said brain isn't rigorous enough to prove anything? Or maybe most of these studies aren't rigorous enough to prove anything either way.

As for "legalise, tax it..." - why is this seen as a means to stop drug related crime? Most petty crime is to pay for the drugs... and if you're paying tax on the produced drug, then smuggling is going to be attractive anyway - because there is profit there. And an existing established supply line.

Oh look, another old guy who hates weed so much that it prevents him from using logic or common sense. Ol' Man River, Dat Ol' Man River, He mus' know sumpin' But don't say nuthin', He jes' keeps rollin', He keeps on rollin' along.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

very interesting! it contradicts some of the earlier studies i had read

Same here dude. Love reading Reagan Era studies and then comparing them to more recent and less one sided studies. Some people still refuse to believe all the good it can do tho.

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

You think less tobacco smoking has not been a cultural change? In my lifetime it has gone from completely accepted everywhere in society to being treated like lepers if you smoke. Certainly, some of that is education, some are laws and some is cost but the cultural shift has been the biggest determination. Your friends, family and peers looking down a certain behavior tends to get results.

Certainly there has been a cultural change in some places.

Because there IS evidence to show this would make a difference. Every single way it can be computed shows it would wipe out all the associated crime overnight.

Evidence? I see no evidence.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Because there IS evidence to show this would make a difference. Every single way it can be computed shows it would wipe out all the associated crime overnight.

Evidence? I see no evidence.

Then you're blind. Evidence has been accumulated since prohibition times in the U.S. and in every country that has legalized it. You're refusal to look for it or deny it's existence means nothing. Seriously, you're not even trying in this thread. Is that the best you can come up with??? God blasted why does anyone even bother to do math, quote various sites, give videos of fucking PHD professors when fucking idiots just come back with shit like that? Are you seriously that dumb in real life? Come up with something to substantiate your claim cause that's just pitiful. :snooty: :boxing:

 

[Just Me]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Did someone really just paste a load of images and say "Hey, look, they had a good successful life so therefore the drug cannot possibly harm your future"

*face palm*

As for the link to "Teen Marijuana use May Show No Effect On Brain Tissue" - really?

Oh look, I found one that shows it is damaging to long term intelligence of teenage users.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 34392.html

Does this mean we've a paradox? It doesn't affect the brain but it does? Or perhaps looking at a brain scan and not actually test said brain isn't rigorous enough to prove anything? Or maybe most of these studies aren't rigorous enough to prove anything either way.

As for "legalise, tax it..." - why is this seen as a means to stop drug related crime? Most petty crime is to pay for the drugs... and if you're paying tax on the produced drug, then smuggling is going to be attractive anyway - because there is profit there. And an existing established supply line.

Oh look, another old guy who hates weed so much that it prevents him from using logic or common sense. Ol' Man River, Dat Ol' Man River, He mus' know sumpin' But don't say nuthin', He jes' keeps rollin', He keeps on rollin' along.

:lol: I can just as easily say, Oh look, another young weed smoker that thinks he knows more than peer reviewed published scientific studies because he has read a few pages on the internet supported by the Legalize Pot Now Party. :roll:

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

.

:lol: I can just as easily say, Oh look, another young weed smoker that thinks he knows more than peer reviewed published scientific studies because he has read a few pages on the internet supported by the Legalize Pot Now Party. :roll:

Funny, it always seems to be the anti marijuana people that refuse to accept "peer reviewed published scientific studies". I'm guessing you're another old guy set in his ways, slowing down progress, refusing science every chance he gets. Dat Ol Man River

 

[Jillybean]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I don't smoke pot. But that's only because I'm really paranoid about being caught. I'm moving to Japan and they are very strict about drugs. No drugs, no pending drug charges, zip zilch nada.

I was a little pothead before (in high school, my teen years), though. Stopping was no problem. I didn't go through withdrawal. I didn't feel anxious or anything. I mean, that can be different for people, but I guess I just wasn't addicted.

Now I still have a few friends who smoke, and the only thing I don't like is all the pot-related 'shared' posts on Facebook. Any kind of massively-shared things really annoy me though.

So I guess my point is IDGAF about pot. I give absolutely zero shits about any of it. If you smoke, cool. I have no problem with other people being allowed to. I just don't feel the urge to.

 

[JickyJuly]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I grew up in a cloud of smoke watching cheech and chong movies and sticking roach clips in my hair as a kid. So, I may be biased. :lol: That said, I haven't smoked in a long time, but I absolutely think it should be legal. Pure, plant substances should never be illegal. However, I think that would happen a lot faster if stoners from all walks of life came out. The way to change unjust laws is to break them openly, responsibly and in large numbers. Skulking around just keeps the stereotype going. My Dad lives in a medical marijuana state. He grows large pot plants which, in the summer, sit in buckets in plain sight in his garden. He doesn't want to get a license to sell or use for medicinal purposes because he doesn't use for those purposes. He believes that marijuana is a gift from God to be used as we see fit, and stands behind that belief by defying the system. Maybe someday he'll need me to bail him out of jail or find him a good lawyer, but I will do so proudly.

The studies against marijuana really shouldn't be trusted. A lot of industries have interest in keeping it illegal. Lots of money to be lost. Money is a good reason to lie to the masses. After working in a headshop for a few years, I can attest to the fact that MANY different people smoke. There's no typical stoner really. If all stoners were lazy and broke, beautiful expensive water pipes wouldn't be sold. Hehehehe.

 

[Just Me]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

.

:lol: I can just as easily say, Oh look, another young weed smoker that thinks he knows more than peer reviewed published scientific studies because he has read a few pages on the internet supported by the Legalize Pot Now Party. :roll:

Funny, it always seems to be the anti marijuana people that refuse to accept "peer reviewed published scientific studies". I'm guessing you're another old guy set in his ways, slowing down progress, refusing science every chance he gets. Dat Ol Man River

I live in one of the few states that has legal recreational marijuana use, and I voted for it. I have no problem with the legalization of marijuana and most other drugs, but you are fooling yourself if you think pot is some wonder medicine and is completely safe.

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

a lot of u refer to studies. but studies are just that. i mean there is a study that says if you drink 8 cups of coffee a day, your chances of getting prostate cancer are significantly reduced. But such a study is useless.

People can live without weed :lol: . You dont need it. Maybe a few patients need it but i am sure the doctors know what they are doing. the general public dont need it. there is a reason why it is illegal in most countries.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

a lot of u refer to studies. but studies are just that. i mean there is a study that says if you drink 8 cups of coffee a day, your chances of getting prostate cancer are significantly reduced. But such a study is useless.

People can live without weed :lol: . You don't need it. Maybe a few patients need it but i am sure the doctors know what they are doing. the general public don't need it. there is a reason why it is illegal in most countries.

People can live without porn, cell phones, cars, cookies and clean socks. We don't need pretty much anything we take part in on a daily basis and unless you are wildly fapping to porn on your phone while driving down the road with a cookie in your mouth throwing socks at people... who am I to complain? Your interest in masturbating with cookies doesn't affect me.

I personally don't like Marijuana because of the way it makes me feel but I know a lot of people who love it and use it every day, while being high functioning and productive members of society. I have also seen the most beautiful minded and kind person have her life ruined by federal laws against weed. Tax dollars paid and are currently paying for the imprisonment and parole of a person who would give you her shoes at the drop of a hat if you were in need. Laws and punishment need to be reserved for people who actually do harm to others.
Legalize it, put the emerald triangle herbal artists to work with big operations and funding, get the fucking Cartel out of our hills, tax the shit out of it, release every prisoner and parolee associated with only marijuana and pull our country out of the ridiculous financial spiral we've gotten ourselves into.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

you are fooling yourself if you think pot is some wonder medicine and is completely safe.

It has already proven to be a wonder medicine, whether you choose to accept that or continue to refuse it means nothing. Nobody ever said it was completely safe but pretending like it can ruin lives is ridiculous.

 

[Shaun__]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

you are fooling yourself if you think pot is some wonder medicine and is completely safe.

It has already proven to be a wonder medicine, whether you choose to accept that or continue to refuse it means nothing. Nobody ever said it was completely safe but pretending like it can ruin lives is ridiculous.

The only way you can kill an adult human with cannabis is to drop a huge bale of the stuff on him that is heavy enough to crush their internal organs. One bottle of Tylenol can shut down a suicidal or misguided persons renal system by comparison. Misuse of edibles and driving is also dangerous of course, but that is what DUI laws are for.

 

[southsamurai]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

a few useful links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis

http://www.cannabissearch.com/medical_benefits/

http://www.livescience.com/24554-medical-marijuana.html

the second one is just a fluff piece really, but it covers a lot of the claims regardless of the back up by studies and experiments (yes, there is a difference between the two)

again, i'm pro-legalization for many reasons. but denying something medically just seems backwards and cruel to me. in the case of extreme disease such as cancer, AIDS, etc that are either very traumatic in the treatment or possibly terminal the palliative effects of herb alone make it essential as a treatment option. yes there is a pill from called marinol, and no it is not the same.

re there drawbacks to it? certainly, and those are increased if smoking it is the form of intake. but there are drawbacks to any and all medications currently in use. even innocuous things like antibiotics have some pretty bad drawbacks.
so, in that spirit, heres a brief listing of the more common drawbacks of cannabis as medicine:
immuno-suppresant (though in some cases this is why it is used)
false euphoria (can lead to poor decisions regarding activity)
respiratory and GI irritant(depending on form of intake)
slowed reaction time
reduced physical coordination
reduced spatial reasoning
reduced time sense
reduced cognitive processing speed (aka IQ) while active

not a complete listing, but a good sample plus on the non-internal side it is less portable than pill or injection forms of medication and since it is derived directly from the plant source by the patient the dosage of active chemicals is variable from use to use and from batch to batch.

now some benefits that have been studied and shown to be as universal in all humans as any other medication:

pain reduction
anti nausea
anti emetic
immune suppressant ( useful in cases of inflamatory bowel, rhematic and rheumatoid arthritis and other immune linked disorders)
appetite increasing
anti-anxiety (in the right doses)
anti-depressant (in the right doses, and with limited use)
MS specific reduction of new lesions and growth of old ones
anti-spasmodic (which can help a wide variety of things as much or more than benzodiazapenes)

again, just partial listing on both sides. when used medically cannabis has to be monitored by your doctor for efficacy. and it should ideally be used in conjunction with other meds, and self prescribing is not wise. as an example of that a lot of people use it to fight depression. while it can help with that the way it helps does not TREAT the depression itself, it just treats the symptoms without addressing the underlying causes. the same can be said of anxiety.

with any medication if you use it to treat a symptom and do not find out why that symptom is there you are likely to run into trouble. if you have a case of the sniffles and could just pop some antibiotics that doesnt mean it is the right medication for the job. are you sniffling because of allergies, a cold, the flu, a bacterial infection, non-allergic rhinitis due to chemical exposure?

only one of those would be helped by antibiotics. most people would take them and when the symptoms went away eventually assume that the antibiotic killed whatever was causing them. they would be wrong. in some of those cases taking the antibiotic might cause worse troubles since it would kill off the body's own bacterial friendlies that fight foreign invaders. marijuana is the same in that respect.

if you smoke herb for the medical benefits make damn sure that you are using the right medication for the job.

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Marijuana is only legal in a few countries (and in most of those countries its only legal because there is no law enforcement).

Just because it is supposedly harmless doesnt mean it should be legal (for e.g there is no harm in a U18 watching porn..yet it is still illegal to do so).

Crime -I am not sure how legalising will reduce crime..enlighten me.

Tax Revenue - no gaurantee that it will increase tax revenue and even if it did is that necessarily a good thing? Why do you want your politicians to become more rich? Is there any gaurantee that your government will spend the money wisely. Just look at the USA and Europe for example.

The cost of legalising marijuana (implementing laws around its usage, road safety laws, tax laws, etc) rules it out of the equation.

To me..I see no benefit in legalising it.

 

[NikkiBlossom]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

a lot of u refer to studies. but studies are just that. i mean there is a study that says if you drink 8 cups of coffee a day, your chances of getting prostate cancer are significantly reduced. But such a study is useless.

People can live without weed :lol: . You don't need it. Maybe a few patients need it but i am sure the doctors know what they are doing. the general public don't need it. there is a reason why it is illegal in most countries.

People can live without porn, cell phones, cars, cookies and clean socks. We don't need pretty much anything we take part in on a daily basis and unless you are wildly fapping to porn on your phone while driving down the road with a cookie in your mouth throwing socks at people... who am I to complain? Your interest in masturbating with cookies doesn't affect me.

I personally don't like Marijuana because of the way it makes me feel but I know a lot of people who love it and use it every day, while being high functioning and productive members of society. I have also seen the most beautiful minded and kind person have her life ruined by federal laws against weed. Tax dollars paid and are currently paying for the imprisonment and parole of a person who would give you her shoes at the drop of a hat if you were in need. Laws and punishment need to be reserved for people who actually do harm to others.
Legalize it, put the emerald triangle herbal artists to work with big operations and funding, get the fucking Cartel out of our hills, tax the shit out of it, release every prisoner and parolee associated with only marijuana and pull our country out of the ridiculous financial spiral we've gotten ourselves into.

Because Honestly, thanks was not enough! I do use marijuana regularly. But that is just me personally. There are SO many stigmas on marijuana that are JUST NOT TRUE that I have seen personally. I have also been doing research on marijuana AND hemp. And the benefits of it are astronomical. I couldn't even post every single thing marijuana could be used for in this one post. And not just in the sense of medicinal purposes. Legalization of marijuana is honestly what America needs right now. It will open up a whole new industry and make jobs. It will free up tax money for other purposes LIKE EDUCATION. And we all know that America's education system could use more money for their teachers and schools to give us a better future. Honestly, I believe people are thinking too small when it comes to the legalization of marijuana. I hear over and over again that "its going to make our country lazy". Which is laughable to me because are country is already lazy from all the hormone induced meat served at McDonalds and all the synthetic made pills that doctors prescribe and just from the general mindset of Americans because we live in THE capitalist society, yes "THE", as in the main one (but that's for another discussion). Honestly, there are 3 groups of people when it comes to marijuana in the US. The ones who want it legal, the ones who could care less and the ones who are misinformed/just wish to stay ignorant. And the misinformed/ignorant people are becoming the minority more and more everyday.

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Nikki,

How does it free up tax money?
How does it create jobs?

I would argue there is plenty of money in USA for education, just that it isnt being used properly (like most western countries!).

Just remember that marijuana is only legal in a few (I mean like 5-6) countries across the world! It is simply not worth legalising it!

 

[mynameisbob84]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Just because it is supposedly harmless doesnt mean it should be legal (for e.g there is no harm in a U18 watching porn..yet it is still illegal to do so).

It kinda does. If something is harmless, why should it be illegal? The only reason marijuana is illegal to begin with is because the usage of hemp was cutting into the cotton trade's profit. Some cotton trader had government ties and boom - marijuana is made illegal and propoganda is put in place to demonize it. If things had been different and it had been shoes that had been made illegal for purely monetary reasons and every time someone was "caught" wearing shoes they were arrested, would you still be saying "well, shoes are harmless but that doesn't mean they should be legal"? Because marijuana being illegal in 2013 is every bit as ridiculous as shoes being outlawed.

And the under 18s watching porn thing... is also silly. If someone is old enough to have a job, to drive, to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes (in England at least), to be married, to have sex and to have children, they're sure as shit old enough to watch two consenting adults do the nasty.

Crime -I am not sure how legalising will reduce crime..enlighten me.

How could it not? Right now, every person smoking weed is committing a crime. Every person dealing weed is committing a crime. Every person growing weed is committing a crime. Every person committing murder because a rival drug dealer is encroaching on their turf is committing a crime. If weed is legalised, that's a fuck load of people no longer committing a crime. It will also save the government something like $10billion as these arbitrary laws will no longer need to be enforced.

Tax Revenue - no gaurantee that it will increase tax revenue and even if it did is that necessarily a good thing? Why do you want your politicians to become more rich? Is there any gaurantee that your government will spend the money wisely. Just look at the USA and Europe for example.

The cost of legalising marijuana (implementing laws around its usage, road safety laws, tax laws, etc) rules it out of the equation.

By this logic, we shouldn't pay tax on anything because there's no guarantee that tax will be used wisely. And the cost of legalising marijuana would be offset almost instantly. As soon as marijuana is sold legally, at a profit, heavily taxed; the cost of throwing up a few road signs and making slight amendments to the highway code is gonna look pretty insignificant next to the money being generated by the legal sale of marijuana and marijuana paraphernalia. And this is to say nothing of the billions saved by not having to enforce anti-marijuana laws.

To me..I see no benefit in legalising it.

Then open your eyes :thumbleft:

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Crime -I am not sure how legalising will reduce crime..enlighten me.

Go back to the first page of this thread and read the post at the bottom of the page.

Tax Revenue - no gaurantee that it will increase tax revenue and even if it did is that necessarily a good thing? Why do you want your politicians to become more rich? Is there any gaurantee that your government will spend the money wisely. Just look at the USA and Europe for example.

Go back to the first page of this thread and read the post at the bottom of the page.

The cost of legalising marijuana (implementing laws around its usage, road safety laws, tax laws, etc) rules it out of the equation.

Go back to the first page of this thread and read the post at the bottom of the page.

To me..I see no benefit in legalising it.

Go back to the first page of this thread and read the post at the bottom of the page.

People have posted more than enough points to support their argument for legalizing marijuana. So at this point you should probably stop saying you don't see any evidence and just call it like it is. You already have your opinion and do not wish to SEE any evidence nor admit to its existence. That's fine, many people like to live in denial of life's realities. Just don't bother to pretend debating it here. You're not contributing to the discussion in any way. So far all your responses have been gibberish my third grade niece could counter.

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

It kinda does. If something is harmless, why should it be illegal? The only reason marijuana is illegal to begin with is because the usage of hemp was cutting into the cotton trade's profit. Some cotton trader had government ties and boom - marijuana is made illegal and propoganda is put in place to demonize it. If things had been different and it had been shoes that had been made illegal for purely monetary reasons and every time someone was "caught" wearing shoes they were arrested, would you still be saying "well, shoes are harmless but that doesn't mean they should be legal"? Because marijuana being illegal in 2013 is every bit as ridiculous as shoes being outlawed.

But is it really harmless? That is the point i was making. Clearly it isnt! Isnt that a valid reason though? If you cut into the cotton trade - then you are ruining a productive industry! Its no different as to why using ethanol fuel is limited, its bloody good for the environment but only to some extent. Marijuana has no use - it is purely RECREATIONAL, and for medecinely, there are ways around that.

And the under 18s watching porn thing... is also silly. If someone is old enough to have a job, to drive, to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes (in England at least), to be married, to have sex and to have children, they're sure as shit old enough to watch two consenting adults do the nasty.

You may consider it silly, but only a handful of young people are mature to have children, drive and drink etc! Everything has to have a limit and a boundary or a cut -off. We can't all be studying medicine or law, similarly we can't expect all 16yr olds to be responsible young adults. For e.g insurance premiums for young drivers are in most cases always higher than a driver who is above 25! So the under 18 is not silly at all - it is a SAFEGUARD.

How could it not? Right now, every person smoking weed is committing a crime. Every person dealing weed is committing a crime. Every person growing weed is committing a crime. Every person committing murder because a rival drug dealer is encroaching on their turf is committing a crime. If weed is legalised, that's a fuck load of people no longer committing a crime. It will also save the government someting like $10billion as these arbitrary laws will no longer need to be enforced.

Soo what? What makes you think that a person who commits or committed a crime before would not commit one in the future? If a person is already comitting a crime. isn't it likely they will still continue to do so,just in another manner? THat person shouldn't be smoking weed..but he is what makes you think he has any respect or care of the law? That fuckload would still commit a crime of sort. Legalising something doesn't mean people become gooody goody all of a sudden. Heck some will think, hey they legalised weed why won't they legalise coke?

By this logic, we shouldn't pay tax on anything because there's no guarantee that tax will be used wisely. And the cost of legalising marijuana would be offset almost instantly. As soon as marijuana is sold legally, at a profit, heavily taxed; the cost of throwing up a few road signs and making slight amendments to the highway code is gonna look pretty insignificant next to the money being generated by the legal sale of marijuana and marijuana paraphernalia. And this is to say nothing of the billions saved by not having to enforce anti-marijuana laws.

Its not logic. I wish life was logical but isn't otherwise the stockmarket would be predictable and no trades would occur, it would be an investment with minimal risk where the return is known. I am saying the extra tax gained (if any) may not be beneficial.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

It kinda does. If something is harmless, why should it be illegal? The only reason marijuana is illegal to begin with is because the usage of hemp was cutting into the cotton trade's profit. Some cotton trader had government ties and boom - marijuana is made illegal and propoganda is put in place to demonize it. If things had been different and it had been shoes that had been made illegal for purely monetary reasons and every time someone was "caught" wearing shoes they were arrested, would you still be saying "well, shoes are harmless but that doesn't mean they should be legal"? Because marijuana being illegal in 2013 is every bit as ridiculous as shoes being outlawed.

But is it really harmless? That is the point i was making. Clearly it isnt! Isnt that a valid reason though? If you cut into the cotton trade - then you are ruining a productive industry! Its no different as to why using ethanol fuel is limited, its bloody good for the environment but only to some extent. Marijuana has no use - it is purely RECREATIONAL, and for medecinely, there are ways around that.

And the under 18s watching porn thing... is also silly. If someone is old enough to have a job, to drive, to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes (in England at least), to be married, to have sex and to have children, they're sure as shit old enough to watch two consenting adults do the nasty.

You may consider it silly, but only a handful of young people are mature to have children, drive and drink etc! Everything has to have a limit and a boundary or a cut -off. We can't all be studying medicine or law, similarly we can't expect all 16yr olds to be responsible young adults. For e.g insurance premiums for young drivers are in most cases always higher than a driver who is above 25! So the under 18 is not silly at all - it is a SAFEGUARD.

How could it not? Right now, every person smoking weed is committing a crime. Every person dealing weed is committing a crime. Every person growing weed is committing a crime. Every person committing murder because a rival drug dealer is encroaching on their turf is committing a crime. If weed is legalised, that's a fuck load of people no longer committing a crime. It will also save the government someting like $10billion as these arbitrary laws will no longer need to be enforced.

Soo what? What makes you think that a person who commits or committed a crime before would not commit one in the future? If a person is already comitting a crime. isn't it likely they will still continue to do so,just in another manner? THat person shouldn't be smoking weed..but he is what makes you think he has any respect or care of the law? That fuckload would still commit a crime of sort. Legalising something doesn't mean people become gooody goody all of a sudden. Heck some will think, hey they legalised weed why won't they legalise coke?

By this logic, we shouldn't pay tax on anything because there's no guarantee that tax will be used wisely. And the cost of legalising marijuana would be offset almost instantly. As soon as marijuana is sold legally, at a profit, heavily taxed; the cost of throwing up a few road signs and making slight amendments to the highway code is gonna look pretty insignificant next to the money being generated by the legal sale of marijuana and marijuana paraphernalia. And this is to say nothing of the billions saved by not having to enforce anti-marijuana laws.

Its not logic. I wish life was logical but isn't otherwise the stockmarket would be predictable and no trades would occur, it would be an investment with minimal risk where the return is known. I am saying the extra tax gained (if any) may not be beneficial.

All your arguments are ruled stupid and thus voided. Seriously, I can't even begin to write how many wrong things you just said. An hour on the internet along would prove you wrong in every way. Why do you bother? I'm convinced you're nothing more than a troll at this point. Completely worthless to any discussion.

 

[jamjars]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I'm not much into weed (I'll smoke it with friends when we're all really drunk) but it's far less harmful than smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol - both socially and physically. The argument can be made that smoking a lot of weed for a long time can unlock the door to psychological problems such as schizophrenia, especially if the smoker is young, but alcohol can unlock extreme violence and cause depression, poor memory function and ruin relationships (and I'm sure everybody knows about the physical effects of smoking tobacco).
Marijuana is a lesser evil. It really doesn't make sense that people are criminalised for it.

 

[NikkiBlossom]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Nikki,

How does it free up tax money?
How does it create jobs?

I would argue there is plenty of money in USA for education, just that it isnt being used properly (like most western countries!).

Just remember that marijuana is only legal in a few (I mean like 5-6) countries across the world! It is simply not worth legalising it!

First and foremost, it frees up taxpayers money by decriminalizing it. Meaning, that the money taxpayers pay to put people in jail which at this time would also include people who have possession of marijuana even in the smallest amounts. There are an average of 750,000 people are year who are imprisoned for possession (of marijuana not even the other drugs) ALONE. Meaning they have no other criminal background. They are sitting in jail for not selling or buying but just having that drug on them. And since the war on drugs has been going on that calculates to around somewhere of 45 million people who have been imprisoned either by state or federal. 45 MILLION people who have been sitting in jail not even able to be productive members of society where are tax money is going to in order to feed, clothe and shelter them. You do realize that tax money goes to that right? There are actually laws that gave a higher percentage of the tax money to imprisoning these people. That is what "War on Drugs" refers too. The law that changed the tax distribution to give less money to TEACHERS and more to imprisoning people who POSSESS, SELL AND BUY drugs. When it could have went to other things like the space program or EDUCATION of our nations children. Because the US definitely needs to do something about education here that is for sure. If weed was legalized all of that money could be used elsewhere.

And on top of that if it was made legal, states could tax just like they would tax cigarettes and alcohol which would then not only stop wasting money, but also MAKE us money. And as a country we need more money flow.

How does it create jobs? Well lets see, the government is going to need scientist and economist in order to regulate marijuana. There are going to need to be marijuana farmers. This will also give new rise to businesses, manufacturers, marketers. It will even trickle its way down to shops where people could becoming managers and part-time workers. When you open up a whole new market, there will be millions of jobs needed. Hell there is already goverenment state jobs opening up in the the states that have already made it legal. Washington is looking for a marijuana consultant. http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/01/smallbusiness/marijuana-job/index.html <<< And that is just ONE of many that will come.

I could honestly sit here all day and post article links and videos. But if you wish to stay ignorant that is on you. There is plenty of information you can honestly look up for yourself it's not that hard. But here I can get you started. Let Me Google That For You.

 

[Jillybean]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I just read Samurai's post.

It says pot is anti-nausea... Uhh. If pot always made me nauseous does that mean I was allergic to it or something?!

 

[mynameisbob84]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

It kinda does. If something is harmless, why should it be illegal? The only reason marijuana is illegal to begin with is because the usage of hemp was cutting into the cotton trade's profit. Some cotton trader had government ties and boom - marijuana is made illegal and propoganda is put in place to demonize it. If things had been different and it had been shoes that had been made illegal for purely monetary reasons and every time someone was "caught" wearing shoes they were arrested, would you still be saying "well, shoes are harmless but that doesn't mean they should be legal"? Because marijuana being illegal in 2013 is every bit as ridiculous as shoes being outlawed.

But is it really harmless? That is the point i was making. Clearly it isnt! Isnt that a valid reason though? If you cut into the cotton trade - then you are ruining a productive industry! Its no different as to why using ethanol fuel is limited, its bloody good for the environment but only to some extent. Marijuana has no use - it is purely RECREATIONAL, and for medecinely, there are ways around that.

And the under 18s watching porn thing... is also silly. If someone is old enough to have a job, to drive, to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes (in England at least), to be married, to have sex and to have children, they're sure as shit old enough to watch two consenting adults do the nasty.

You may consider it silly, but only a handful of young people are mature to have children, drive and drink etc! Everything has to have a limit and a boundary or a cut -off. We can't all be eating studying medicine or law, similarly we can't expect all 16yr olds to be responsible young adults. For e.g insurance premiums for young drivers are in most cases always higher than a driver who is above 25! So the under 18 is not silly at all - it is a SAFEGUARD.

How could it not? Right now, every person smoking weed is committing a crime. Every person dealing weed is committing a crime. Every person growing weed is committing a crime. Every person committing murder because a rival drug dealer is encroaching on their turf is committing a crime. If weed is legalised, that's a fuck load of people no longer committing a crime. It will also save the government someting like $10billion as these arbitrary laws will no longer need to be enforced.

Soo what? What makes you think that a person who commits or committed a crime before would not commit one in the future? If a person is already comitting a crime. isn't it likely they will still continue to do so,just in another manner? THat person shouldn't be smoking weed..but he is what makes you think he has any respect or care of the law? That fuckload would still commit a crime of sort. Legalising something doesn't mean people become gooody goody all of a sudden. Heck some will think, hey they legalised weed why won't they legalise coke?

By this logic, we shouldn't pay tax on anything because there's no guarantee that tax will be used wisely. And the cost of legalising marijuana would be offset almost instantly. As soon as marijuana is sold legally, at a profit, heavily taxed; the cost of throwing up a few road signs and making slight amendments to the highway code is gonna look pretty insignificant next to the money being generated by the legal sale of marijuana and marijuana paraphernalia. And this is to say nothing of the billions saved by not having to enforce anti-marijuana laws.

Its not logic. I wish life was logical but isn't otherwise the stockmarket would be predictable and no trades would occur, it would be an investment with minimal risk where the return is known. I am saying the extra tax gained (if any) may not be beneficial.

I kinda feel like you've somehow missed the point on every point of discussion here. If the hemp trade had cut into the cotton trade's profits to the extent that the cotton industry had gone under, then there would have been new jobs in the hemp industry to offset the ones lost in the cotton industry, ya know? That's kinda how competition works. A modern day equivalent would be adidas being banned because Nike has government ties.

As for marijuana being harmless - it can, in rare instances lead to mental health issues and it can, in rare instances act as a gateway drug. But the same could be said of alcohol, and both alcohol and tobacco are fundamentally more damaging.

And you've completely missed the point I was making about crime being reduced in the wake of the legalisation of marijuana. Whether someone commits other crimes before or after weed is legalised has no bearing on the weed-related crime reduction (which goes down to zero as weed is no longer illegal) and the money saved by not having to enforce those laws.

I too wish life was logical. If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[NikkiBlossom]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I just read Samurai's post.

It says pot is anti-nausea... Uhh. If pot always made me nauseous does that mean I was allergic to it or something?!

No, it could have meant that the smoke made you nauseous. But that is not the only way to ingest marijuana. You could try edibles and then also vaporizers that has less smoke content and more water vapor and THC. And in all honesty, vaporizers are the least harmful to the lungs and best way to judge just how much marijuana is needed to be ingested. With eating it, it takes a while for your body to absorb it and you will not know if you ate too much.

And I have a friend who is allergic to marijuana which sucks because she actually loves smoking (she became allergic after she had her child). And her throat closed up and she got a rash around her mouth.

 

[NikkiBlossom]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Decided to post this because I think its relevant.