Stupidity of American Voters...

[Bocefish]

As if they had a choice :lol:

Watch Obamacare Architect Jonathan Gruber Explain Why "Lack of Transparency" Was Key to Passing the Health Care Law

 

[dilligaf0]

Everyone is given the right to their own opinions, this includes who they vote for and why.

 

[bud9752]

I don't remember voting for ObamaCare (ACA),
but I do remember a Democrat Congress pushing for
it to pass. With Nancy Pelosi mockingly spouting
that they The Dems have to pass it to find out what's
in it. Well they passed it and now the rest of the story
about what was in it and how it was one big lie by it's
architect to defraud the people and enact a tax on medical
care has come to light. The CBO has failed the American Public
by letting political manipulation destroy the health care system
to empower the Democrat agenda.

 

[eyeteach]

Everyone is given the right to their own opinions, this includes who they vote for and why.

People are entitled to the truth, and the truth is that dem's lied to the electorate re: Obamacare.

 

[dilligaf0]

Then that's the dishonesty of politicians, NOT stupidity of American voters.

 

[RedHerby]

Stupid American voters indeed ...

 

[eyeteach]

Then that's the dishonesty of liberal, progressive politicians, NOT stupidity of democrat voters.

FIFY. And for the record I believe that they're both to blame.

 

[theRileyDaniels]

These debates always make me sad. I love Obamacare and im glad we are actually catching up with the rest of the world.

 

[Red7227]

These debates always make me sad. I love Obamacare and im glad we are actually catching up with the rest of the world.

Yup, its really nice to know that the monolithic bureaucracy we have as a government - with a thin pond scum of politicians on top who don't get to change much - operates with the best interests of Australians as its goal. We also have an independent legal system that can challenge decisions forcing them to be reversed. Its not perfect, certainly with our current idiot in charge, and things have been much better. I must say though, even the worst of our politicians were ever suggest anything like banning the feeding of the poor.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I'll share my own personal story about how OC fucked me.
I already had insurance. After ObamaCare I was notified my deductible went from $2,000 to $6,000. Wow. What? Then they decided to stop covering 3 of my medications, as well, after the changes. Now, I don't know a ton about insurances and how they work. I don't know if OC was totally to blame for the sudden change in my policy. All I know is that when I called my insurance to figure out why I got fucked they said (paraphrasing), "Yea, sorry. These are the new rules because of Obamacare."
The city I live in is very different when it comes to health providers than most other places. It's different because almost every GOOD doctor does NOT take insurance. Especially in the mental health field. Go ahead, search "LA psychiatrist" with good reviews and give them a call. 98% of them will be out of network. They can do this because I live in a city saturated with celebrities and rich people willing to pay out of pocket for good health service. The only way I get around this is through PPO with my insurance. They will reimburse me for seeing someone out of network. I pay $270 a month for that privilege. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Obamacare doesn't have that option. Now most people will say, "just find a doctor that is with your insurance!" Easy solution, right? Wrong. From my experience, the doctors provided by my insurance are total quacks. There might be a few decent ones, but they are few and far between. Not worth trying out and paying a lot of money to see 10 bad doctors to find one good one. And because of the severity of my mental health issues, I cannot afford to see a bad psychiatrist that's going to wrongfully diagnose me and dope me up on a bunch of drugs that don't fit my needs. I HAVE to see the best doctors in LA. And those doctors are "cash only."
I understand that my situation is rare. I'm really happy for anyone who has had good experiences with ObamaCare. I wish I could say the same. And really, if it helps the majority of people, I'm willing to suffer through it. Nothing is perfect and not everyone is going to be 100% satisfied with anything.

 

[Shaun__]

The only way to fix medical insurance in America is to go to a single payer system. We pay more than any other country and constantly get less. The only reason we do not already have something like that, is all the people saying fuck you I got mine.

 

[dilligaf0]

Then that's the dishonesty of liberal, progressive politicians, NOT stupidity of democrat voters.

FIFY. And for the record I believe that they're both to blame.

I'd appreciate it if you would accurately quote me instead of making shit up like a Republican. :angry4:

Then that's the dishonesty of politicians, NOT stupidity of American voters.

Are you auditioning for a job on Fox News?

 

[theRileyDaniels]

OC has been amazing for me. I think Obama has done more to take this country in a positive direction. If people were not holding him back and simply shooting down or changing things he purposed , it could have been even better.

 

[eyeteach]

Then that's the dishonesty of liberal, progressive politicians, NOT stupidity of democrat voters.

FIFY. And for the record I believe that they're both to blame.

I'd appreciate it if you would accurately quote me instead of making shit up like a Republican. :angry4:

Then that's the dishonesty of politicians, NOT stupidity of American voters.

Are you auditioning for a job on Fox News?

Making shit up like a Republican? Show me the first Republican that told the American electorate "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it.". Or, "if you like your doctor you can keep him." It wasn't the Republican's that said those things, nor was it the Republican's that pushed through a bill where it's own architect claims that he and his political party flat out LIED to voter's about. Look, I can see how angry and upset you are...if the world that I theorized about now has been shown to be nothing but a baseless group of unsustainable ideologies then yeah, I'd be pissed off too.

Do you have any pull with Fox News? If so then ^5! Can you get me a job there? Have you seen their ratings? Off the hook! Shit yeah I'd like to work there, it'd be a hell of a lot better working there than kissing Obama/Clinton ass at MSNBC.

 

[ACFFAN69]

Politics in American can be so ridiculous. Granted proclaiming yourself as any stereotype or team, be it in politics or anywhere else in life, usually is rediculous.

 

[eyeteach]

Politics in American can be so rediculous.

I certainly agree.

But getting back on point re: this thread: those of you that voted for Obama because of Obamacare, how do you now feel about the ACA knowing full well those you voted for truly believe that you are too damn stupid to know what's in your own best interest?

 

[MrRodry]

It was Obama or Mitt Romney, I think of those two you gringos elected the best one. Going a little bit off topic, looks like the GOP will do everything they can to bring down Obamacare - not because they think it's bad for the american people but simply because it's called Obamacare.

 

[dilligaf0]

Then that's the dishonesty of liberal, progressive politicians, NOT stupidity of democrat voters.

FIFY. And for the record I believe that they're both to blame.

I'd appreciate it if you would accurately quote me instead of making shit up like a Republican. :angry4:

Then that's the dishonesty of politicians, NOT stupidity of American voters.

Are you auditioning for a job on Fox News?

Making shit up like a Republican? Show me the first Republican that told the American electorate "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it.". Or, "if you like your doctor you can keep him." It wasn't the Republican's that said those things, nor was it the Republican's that pushed through a bill where it's own architect claims that he and his political party flat out LIED to voter's about. Look, I can see how angry and upset you are...if the world that I theorized about now has been shown to be nothing but a baseless group of unsustainable ideologies then yeah, I'd be pissed off too.

Do you have any pull with Fox News? If so then ^5! Can you get me a job there? Have you seen their ratings? Off the hook! Shit yeah I'd like to work there, it'd be a hell of a lot better working there than kissing Obama/Clinton ass at MSNBC.

Republicans only lie about minor shit......

like Saddam has WMD's so Halliburton can make money from a war.

 

[dilligaf0]

It was Obama or Mitt Romney, I think of those two you gringos elected the best one. Going a little bit off topic, looks like the GOP will do everything they can to bring down Obamacare - not because they think it's bad for the american people but simply because it's called Obamacare.

Obamacare's bad, but Romneycare is good. :twocents-02cents:

 

[dilligaf0]

Then that's the dishonesty of liberal, progressive politicians, NOT stupidity of democrat voters.

FIFY. And for the record I believe that they're both to blame.

I'd appreciate it if you would accurately quote me instead of making shit up like a Republican. :angry4:

Then that's the dishonesty of politicians, NOT stupidity of American voters.

Are you auditioning for a job on Fox News?

Making shit up like a Republican? Show me the first Republican that told the American electorate "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it.". Or, "if you like your doctor you can keep him." It wasn't the Republican's that said those things, nor was it the Republican's that pushed through a bill where it's own architect claims that he and his political party flat out LIED to voter's about. Look, I can see how angry and upset you are...if the world that I theorized about now has been shown to be nothing but a baseless group of unsustainable ideologies then yeah, I'd be pissed off too.

Do you have any pull with Fox News? If so then ^5! Can you get me a job there? Have you seen their ratings? Off the hook! Shit yeah I'd like to work there, it'd be a hell of a lot better working there than kissing Obama/Clinton ass at MSNBC.

But the real point of my reply is you deliberately altered my quote to support you point of view, which is dishonest.

But two can play that game.

 

[dilligaf0]

Then that's the dishonesty of liberal, progressive politicians, NOT stupidity of democrat voters.

FIFY. And for the record I believe that they're both to blame.

I'd appreciate it if you would accurately quote me instead of making shit up like a Republican. :angry4:

Then that's the dishonesty of politicians, NOT stupidity of American voters.

Are you auditioning for a job on Fox News?

Making shit up like a Republican? Show me the first Republican that told the American electorate "We must invade Iraq because Saddam has wheapons of mass destruction.". Or, "The oil in Iraq will pay for the war." It was the Republican's that said those things, it was the Republican's that pushed through a bill where it's own architect claims that he and his political party flat out LIED. Look, I can see how angry and upset you are...if the world that I theorized about now has been shown to be nothing but a baseless group of unsustainable ideologies then yeah, I'd be pissed off too.

Do you have any pull with Fox News? If so then ^5! Can you get me a job there? Have you seen their ratings? Off the hook! Shit yeah I'd like to work there, then I can make up whatever baseless shit I want and fools will believe me.

:whistle:

 

[eyeteach]

It was Obama or Mitt Romney, I think of those two you gringos elected the best one. Going a little bit off topic, looks like the GOP will do everything they can to bring down Obamacare - not because they think it's bad for the american people but simply because it's called Obamacare.

Obamacare's bad, but Romneycare is good. :twocents-02cents:

Hold on to that $.02, you're gonna all the money you can afford for your rising co-pay's.

But seriously, you've been told just how stupid you are by your elected officials; how does that make you feel? And will you be voting for them again?

 

[WildFingers]

I don't like to discuss politics for one simple reason.
The reason is if you disagree with me you are two things:
1. Wrong
2. Stupid

I like my friends smart and correct.

 

[Yarrow]

Maybe I am crazy but I don't see what he said all that upsetting. Lack of tact maybe, but it's true... people never want to spend more upfront for things if they don't think they have to- but humans are woefully bad at seeing the costs of their actions in the future. People are terrible at planning. People in general are 'stupid' at looking ahead and gauging the future.

If you tell people they have to pay more for sick people when they feel they are healthy, they are not going to want to do it. Human nature- I'm fine, fend for yourself.

The problem is, by not paying they end up paying more eventually in Federal and State debt from all the people going to the ER's and doctors and never paying a dime. If they end up getting sick or a loved one gets sick and can't afford care or get insurance, guess what they are more than likely going to think?! 'Shit, I should have not been such a heartless asshat for hating on all those people who needed coverage- this shit is expensive!'

Insurance both for doctors and patients, in addition to people who are uninsured going to doctors has jacked up the cost of healthcare in this country. A single payer system would cut out a lot of the middle man (all the insurance companies) and save money eventually, but that is probably a long way off. You can't easily defragment a business here.

 

[Bocefish]

Maybe I am crazy but I don't see what he said all that upsetting.

You don't mind they conspired to commit fraud on the American people? Oh, but supposedly socialized medicine is for the greater good... redistributing wealth and all that good stuff.

The arrogant prick was also paid millions to do so. Obama said he only recently found out about Gruber's statements... Poor Obama, he's always the last one to find out. What a fucking joke Obama has become, no credibility whatsoever... allies can't trust him and adversaries don't respect him or his meaningless words. Apparently Obama and Pelosi also concur on the stupidity of American voters because they both deny having anything to do with Gruber despite them both being on video commending his plans by name among other sources that prove otherwise. Can you say two faced lying sacks of shit...

Only 37% of Americans approve of the law: http://www.gallup.com/poll/179426/new-e ... roval.aspx

And the employer mandate hasn't even kicked in yet. :lol:

 

[theRileyDaniels]

What exactly do you suggest then?

 

[Bocefish]

What exactly do you suggest then?

Revamp the law keeping what is good that feasibly works while adjusting or eliminating what doesn't. There are some sustainable options available to draw from that most people would likely be content compromising on instead of the Obamacare mandates. Future SCOTUS rulings on the ACA will probably help direct those options.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[Felicity]

Boce is right about Obama being a POS liar. I mean they even have video of him saying he would never take executive action on immigration reform because he's not an " emporer.". And cut to present day where he's passed more executive orders than any other president. Believe me at one point he seemed like a good guy but then he pulled the classic politician switch and has not followed through with any of his promises. I mean he ran on the premise that he wouldn't protect Monsanto and then he ends up signing Monsanto protection act. He lied about everything to get into office. And I'm tired of people saying he's adding jobs! He's adding more part time jobs and cutting full time employees hours so no one has enough hours to qualify for work insurance and is forced into obamacare. The difference between obamacare and romneycare is that romneycare was set up so states could opt out if they wanted to. Obama wants to take away states rights to form a more powerful federal government.

Our government is in a sorry state and don't even get me started on why Homeland Security is stocking up on millions of hollow point bullets and tanks.

 

[Yarrow]

Maybe I am crazy but I don't see what he said all that upsetting.

You don't mind they conspired to commit fraud on the American people? Oh, but supposedly socialized medicine is for the greater good... redistributing wealth and all that good stuff.

The arrogant prick was also paid millions to do so. Obama said he only recently found out about Gruber's statements... Poor Obama, he's always the last one to find out. What a fucking joke Obama has become, no credibility whatsoever... allies can't trust him and adversaries don't respect him or his meaningless words. Apparently Obama and Pelosi also concur on the stupidity of American voters because they both deny having anything to do with Gruber despite them both being on video commending his plans by name among other sources that prove otherwise. Can you say two faced lying sacks of shit...

Only 37% of Americans approve of the law: http://www.gallup.com/poll/179426/new-e ... roval.aspx

And the employer mandate hasn't even kicked in yet. :lol:

It's not that I don't mind, it's that I don't find it surprising. Politicians and lobbyist everywhere do this on the daily. I don't see it at this huge "oh my goodness, fraud!", I just see it as withholding information and this happens everyday on the State and Federal level to get things passed. This is an ethical debate for sure, but if you listen to what he said- and if you paid attention to ACA at all you would know this is how it was going to go down (relatively). If people are surprised it is because they don't pay attention or have any need (right now) to pay attention to the healthcare law.

My personal opinion of Obama as a person and president really has no bearing on what the ACA does for citizens.

I do think socialized medicine would be better than what we have now, yes. While life isn't fair I think as a 'civilized' society we should try to keep our healthcare system more balanced and for the greater good of our citizens. What we had before did not. What we have now is better, but can't and doesn't address other issues such the terrible minimum wage in this country. A lot of people still can't afford premiums depending on where they live in the country. Which is really sad, but baby steps are better than nothing.

Also, that Gallup poll is not so surprising. People don't understand the basics of law for one, and in the question they asked over the phone most people will focus on two things that they hear, Obama and health--- most people do hate Obamacare, but they don't know what the 'Affordable Care Act' is. This says a lot. They are connecting their idea of a person with a law they know nothing about.

 

[Felicity]

What we have with obamacare is not better. We only needed 2 laws passed not an entire reform.

1. No denying insurance to people with pre existing conditions.

2. Price limit for what insurance can charge people.