Studio illegally exploiting former model over follower account?? CB -- WTH!

[cexmental]

@punker barbie

I am appalled about CB’s policy for handling the followers of an account!

CB has a policy that a user, who creates the account and has access to the associated e-mail, has the right to control the accounts followers? In the case of a studio, they now own the rights to hundreds of thousands of users who followed a specific model and not a specific account by name alone! This is an important distinction you must keep in mind! This industry is a visual industry. Users enter, see what they like, and click follow so they can easily find that model again. They want to follow that model, and not the studio that has nothing to do with the day-to-day activity of the model!

A model uses their personal body, in sexual ways (difficult and emotionally taxing), to entice users to follow them. That model 100% does all of the work. That model generates the followers. Those followers belong to the model, and not the studio that did nothing but register the account name! (please don't take offense or post a rebuttal if you are a good boss, I know you exist.)

When a studio model become an Independent Broadcaster, they lose all of that hard work. With the loss of followers comes a decrease in account activity, earnings, and positivity. I’ve had friends/clients tell me they are emotionally distraught, upset, frustrated, etc. They are happy to be Independent, but unable to earn the same amount they did 1 week prior, because their 150,000 follower count was reset back to 0!

Please consider, is this acceptable and a fair way to treat your working employees? Does this provide for them a sense of security and a reason to continue working for your site?

Some studio owners are just disgusting humans...

My friend and client of 4 years, was exploited today by a former studio (employer)!! I will not list any names, because I do not have my clients legal representation, but I would like to inform you that today the former studio contacted my client, and offered to sell back the old CB followers (from the studio account)!! They claimed to have transferred all 150,000+ followers to another account, have control of them, and if my client pays $10,000 they will transfer the followers back! After my client said they were not comfortable, they offered a better deal (*lol*). My client 100% refused, becasue this is illegal and they are trying to exploit this model after 5 months!! They are playing to an emotional/mental state of health in an attempt to get money out of my client, because my client is openly frustrated as earnings have dropped 75% due to the fact that none of the 150,000+ customers know where to find my client now!

This is 100% exploitation. This is 100% illegal. CB should 100% take notice and make this right! A model’s followers should be transferred to any new model’s account, which has the same real life name, ID, and image as the former account. It is the same person, so why are they not allowed to keep their customers?

Not everyone becomes Independent because it is cool! Some do it to escape a mentally abusive work environment. Self-esteem, confidence, and a sense of security are real things, and CB should help maintain those in people by offering something as simple as transferring the followers a specific model has earned to their new account!

Thank you for reading my thoughts!
Cexmental

 

[Marceline]

Studios own the rights to the account and even the model's name when a model signs up with their studio. And the model more than likely signed a contract agreeing to that when they signed up with that studio.

What the studio is doing is absolutely shitty, no doubt, but it's not illegal and it's highly doubtful that Chaturbate will transfer the followers. Also, it's really weird that you keep referring to this person as your client and making it seem like you are some sort of representative for her (when you even say you are not legally representing her, and let's be real, no lawyer is going to come write something like this on behalf of their actual client on a public forum).

 

[rockin_rod]

From https://chaturbate.com/terms/ :

Studio Accounts. Individuals who wish to create a studio account (a "Studio Account") through the Platform must comply with our rules for setting up a Studio Account. If these rules are complied with, such Account will be considered a "Studio" on the Platform. For all Accounts under a Studio, the Studio is deemed the owner of all Accounts in such Studio Account ("Studio Sub-Accounts"). The followers, images, and data associated with all Studio Sub-Accounts may not be transferred away from or shared with another Account without the applicable Studio's consent, absent what we may deem, in our sole and exclusive determination, to be extraordinary circumstances.

 

[cexmental]

Hey everyone,

It’s not really strange for me. I'm a coder, and I also consult, create art, and do some other fun chores to help out when I can. I'm a member of the CB community as much as I am a client and a fan. In my opinion, this is wrong, worth highlighting, and discussing towards a solution. I can honestly refer to this person as a 'client', because they are one. They have provided payment in trade for work completed. This is the first time I have heard of someone attempting this type of act. It's more than shitty.

The point of my post is to provide an example for change! Like a partnership that maintains the same follower agreement as now, with the added sub section that when a human leaves your studio, they are allowed to transfer their followers to their newly verified Independent broadcasting account (same person, same ID, etc). This solution offers job security and mental stability, the two most positive outcomes worth highlighting.

The person involved in the physical work is entitled to the sum of their clients. While I would love to see the followers returned, my reason for pointing out these extraordinary circumstances were not to create that change.

Being on a public forum... is because public discussions can create change!

Cheers,
Cexmental

 

[tokensarentforkids]

the studio business won't work if the models are free to leave, and the camsite needs the studios for...content

 

[Sunshineseeker]

I'd be inclined to agree with Marceline here. Shitty is fair, offering to sell it to her seems underhand but I'd assume a studio would keep rights to whatever the model agreed to when signing her contract. Six months not working on the platform in which they've performed as part of the studio is usual.

Many other industries have similar safeguards in place to protect a company when an individual leaves. I previously worked at a recruitment consultancy and there was a clause in every contract that you could not work for a competing consultancy for 1 year. Similarly, exiting hairdressers and beauticians are not allowed to discuss where they're moving on to so that the salon where they've been working can attempt to retain their clientele.

What kind of change are you hoping to achieve that's fair to a model and a studio?

 

[dark_mermaid]

Believe it or not, studios have dedicated fans and quite many. When I left my studio only very few of my users came to my new independent room but I definitely saw many of them in new (or old) studio rooms. They were never really "my" fans, they were studio fans and I was exchangeable. So even transferring followers will still not bring the same people back, many of the followers will have moved on to a new studio model.
It is really possible and even likely that many of her old followers saw her new room but are not interested in her anymore outside of the studio, because they are in reality studio fans.
She should not pay anything for a transfer of followers.

 

[anabeauty37]

i answered to something similar in the past . As a owner of studio im telling you is not illegal at all . U create a studio account, the model know this pages belongs to the studio in case she is leaving, to another studio or home or where she wants . As for the customers folowing a specific model, trust me isnt like this, guys like girls ,. if i replace a model on the page with another sexy one they still coming to watch .. for example i share my page , when im sleeping someone else broadcasting and guess what? they are watching, tipping, enjoying, And if you want a model to have her own folowers then she can start home alone , if she cant and she need studio then should be like this . To grow folowers is not only the new model that got no ideea how to do it, usuall;y i work same hours like them, i keep the phone in my hand at 5 am and watch and tell her how to act what to answer how to move, answering to pms while shes busy so we work 50 % 50% for this folowers , then u want her to learn, go home and take it all . If they can do it alone without studios then they can have all the page with the folowers . I had girls trying alone did nothing, i open for example account on stripchat in 1 year i have 230000 folowers, if i let her alone maybe she had 23000 , and u want them to just come say thanks and take the account? i offer the option to stay in new account, make folowers and even keep the page but when they see 20 users in the room they dont want , they need studios to make the promotions , best image, sometimes im in chat typing talking to people hours to entertain them next to the model, im pretty sure other studious making efforts too for this pages .. and is not only chaturbate, is the same for all the sites that accept studios , studio got his rights on their accounts, models on their own accounts. if its like u wish then there wont me more studious, only independent models .studio can close if every model taking the page with folowers and as i said , manny cant do it without the studio, wait till they go and u see how they do alone from zero .

 

[anabeauty37]

Also about selling folowers , as i know chaturbate dont transfer folowers anymore , will be stuck in that account, becouse yes, before girls that quit or pregnant whatever used to sell accounts, I have a friend model she bought an account on cb with 600000 followers for 10000$ , when her account had only 15000 in 2 years alone.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Different platforms handle this in their own ways. I am inclined to agree with you, giving a performer the option to transfer their old faves and stuff is nice, and makes sense in that they earned them through their own efforts as a performer. I know some platforms do this, if you opt out of other "new account" promo in some instances I believe.

And obviously, the studio is a bit backhanded to try to sell the followers back to her. Is that even possible? A last ditch effort to make money off of someone who will never line their pockets again, and I'm not sure I'd trust them to follow through to begin with, but I am being tinfoil hatty there.

But when it comes to right and wrong on the part of CB themselves, they made their rules and communicated them. People agree to them when signing up. Is it what I would want, or choose for myself? No. But you are accusing them of wrongdoing where there is none. I am not sure that is the best way to get a policy reviewed, ya know?

 

[cexmental]

What kind of change are you hoping to achieve that's fair to a model and a studio?

From my post:

The point of my post is to provide an example for change! Like a partnership that maintains the same follower agreement as now, with the added sub section that when a human leaves your studio, they are allowed to transfer their followers to their newly verified Independent broadcasting account (same person, same ID, etc). This solution offers job security and mental stability, the two most positive outcomes worth highlighting.

Everyone, please stop assuming the gender or situation of my client. There were 0 contracts signed. Read the TOS and accept it, while the fact remains that in this case this person is being exploited. Something should be adjusted as I've highlighted, so this can't happen. Ownership of followers does not give a person the right to exploit another when they are at their lowest. Ownership should revert to the person who created the followers, not the person who registered the account.

@dark_mermaid To be completly honest, I do find that hard to believe. I've been involved in this industry for just over 5 years and I've not met anyone who follows models because of a studio, knows who owns the studios, etc. I'm not saying those fans aren't created, I just have never met one.

Cheers,
Cexmental

 

[Highlander884]

What I think isnt ok, is when they replace the model with a different one on the same account. I have seen that done before.
I understand studios owning accounts but at the same time I've also seen models actually do all the hard work and received fuck all support from studio/admins besides somewhere to broadcast.

Basically there are good studios and there are shit studios. There are good employees/admins and there are shite employees/admins. (And yes I have met girls who have done both sides of the job and are applauded at some admins attitudes towards the models)

All I suggest to any girl who's looking to work/leave a studio is to create a independent social page not owned by the studio to tell people about any new accounts.

 

[Highlander884]

I'll also back that up. Yes I've seen many familiar faces in chat of girls at a studio but no one I've met follows the studio over the models.

I mean why would they? They like the way the rooms are decorated? Just the right amount of fake plants?

 

[Danigirl]

The model signed the contract and was aware of it when they started. Or they should have been if they read the damn TOS with both the sites and the studio. While it sucks to leave and lose followers, there legally is no recourse. They knew or should have known. This is to be expected. They got perks for signing up to the studio which is probably why they thought it was worthwhile in the beginning anyway.

Chaturbate isn't going to do a damn thing about this. They can't even handle legitimate complaints and bans much less those who are butthurt about a decision someone else made with open eyes. Does it suck to lose such a following? Yup. Did they benefit from using a studio in the beginning? Probably also yup if they didn't have equipment or know how in the industry. Are there sucky studios? Fuck yeah. This is part of running a business.

 

[Marceline]

Obviously there won't be any actual policy change on CB based off of public discussion on a forum. Otherwise, CB would have changed their policies on banning people with no real notice years ago.

At the risk of sounding like a dick, it's not CB's problem how studios run themselves and how they handle certain situations with their models as long as they are uploading legitimate documentation for their models and they are all of legal age and not being coerced/trafficked into sex work. Contrary to what OP said in their initial post, cam models are never employees for the cam sites they work on, whether they're an independent or studio model. They're independent contractors.

It's getting so tiring seeing camsite members come on here and say "this is illegal" and "that is illegal". Just because someone is doing something crappy doesn't mean it is illegal. Also, it's still weird to keep calling this model "your client". It comes off as trying to be self important and more relevant to the situation than just being a camsite member who is trying to stick up for their favorite model.

 

[AudriTwo]

Many other industries have similar safeguards in place to protect a company when an individual leaves. I previously worked at a recruitment consultancy and there was a clause in every contract that you could not work for a competing consultancy for 1 year. Similarly, exiting hairdressers and beauticians are not allowed to discuss where they're moving on to so that the salon where they've been working can attempt to retain their clientele.

so true! my husband is probably going to be working for a hospital network soon. he got his hands on the clause, and if he quits to work for a competitive travel nursing company, he will be blacklisted from the hospital's network for three years.

---

sorry OP it's hard to feel bad for this model because if she read what she was signing when she was starting up, she would know what to expect when she leaves. she would know she has zero ownership of her camming profile and it's growth/success. i get it. it sucks. i have seen lots of models have to go through the waiting period and back to 0 followers/favorites/friends. but you know what, instead of crying exploitation, the model should look at it as an opportunity to start anew. create a new account with a similar username. she's a veteran now and independent. she has an advantage now with the new model tag. maybe a new site, try something new. chaturbate isn't the only money-making site, and when you are independent, adding multiple eggs can be essential.

 

[AudriTwo]

Sorry for misgendering or assuming the models gender. My b. My point still stands. Models read all legal mumbo jumbo.

 

[Ozzie_]

Yeah look (again, I am only a user so yada yada), but to be saying what the OP is saying is naive at best, completely clueless at worst.

Yes, the studio seems to be behaving in a shitty way, but it is not illegal. Neither is Chaturbate behaving illegally (or immorally given their TOS).

Even I know that studios own such "assets". Surely this model must have known also. So whilst it sucks for her, she should have been prepared for this situation.

I believe on SC (I could be wrong) a model must have 30 days between leaving / closing her studio account and starting a new account as an independent model so forward planning is vital.

 

[rockin_rod]

I'm in no way taking sides, and it does seem at face value that the studio is behaving poorly. But if you run a business and don't seize a potential opportunity to make money, you won't run it indefinitely - or at least profitably.
No idea what the model in question could have been earning before the studio split, but there would be a financial equation of paying to buy back the followers but maintaining previous earnings (and resultant pay-off point), or starting all over and rebuilding followers and associated income.
Studios carry significant startup and ongoing operating costs. Are they lucrative for the owners? Sure! But there is risk to those owners, especially in countries like Russia where studio owners face huge fines and significant jail time if caught. If this studio maintained the account with 150k followers, and put a similar model working that room name, a reasonable number of those followers might stay interested and spend on the room. So signing the account over gratis to someone who did not carry the operating costs and risks would not make business sense to the owner(s). Especially if the model parted the studio on bad terms.

 

[mika_kedi]

What I think isnt ok, is when they replace the model with a different one on the same account. I have seen that done before.

Models join studios for various perks in exchange for a share of the profits they make. On of those profits can be exactly that - staring on an account that already has thousands of followers instead of starting from zero.

Don't get me wrong, I believe many studios are shitty, and most studios, even if they are not shitty otherwise, are exploitative by taking way too big part of profits for what they provide, but they do provide something that makes certain models choose them over staring independent. It can be equipment, good internet connection, training, space to stream, english speaking moderator, staring with an already grown account, a combination of all/some of the above and other factors.

My point is, if you want to be on models side I don't think advocating for studios to give them LESS than they already do for models who can't/don't want to start as independent performers is the way to go.

 

[Highlander884]

I dont think putting a new girl on someone's else's previous account is in the new girls best interest though. Its them that have to put up with the questions/abuse as to what happened to the previous girl. And from what I've seen regulars dont continue following the new girl or certainly tipping her.

 

[anabeauty37]

I dont think putting a new girl on someone's else's previous account is in the new girls best interest though. Its them that have to put up with the questions/abuse as to what happened to the previous girl. And from what I've seen regulars dont continue following the new girl or certainly tipping her.

its working, guys dont really care or maybe a lil part of them, only a few asking what happend with preview and the new girl making conversation, telling them she left becouse she wanna study something or work something else , they understand is a life decision and move on .. ... chaturbate or their pleasure to watch models wont stop becouse a girl decided to leave . Maybe few regulars will go but the rest of guys looking for fun will keep folowing .

 

[AudriTwo]

I dont think putting a new girl on someone's else's previous account is in the new girls best interest though. Its them that have to put up with the questions/abuse as to what happened to the previous girl. And from what I've seen regulars dont continue following the new girl or certainly tipping her.

Honestly, I don't think most members would notice unless they were room regulars. Also 100,000 followers, doubt all of them are paying members.

 

[MonaMonet]

Studios own the rights to the account and even the model's name when a model signs up with their studio. And the model more than likely signed a contract agreeing to that when they signed up with that studio.

What the studio is doing is absolutely shitty, no doubt, but it's not illegal and it's highly doubtful that Chaturbate will transfer the followers. Also, it's really weird that you keep referring to this person as your client and making it seem like you are some sort of representative for her (when you even say you are not legally representing her, and let's be real, no lawyer is going to come write something like this on behalf of their actual client on a public forum).

Damn! So I didn't know any this! I am new to the camming world and the studio I'm with never told me that they own the rights to my account and my followers! I'm new to this site and already learning so much, thank you! ( even tho I dunno if I'm using this forum right? Lol but lmk please, TY!)

 

[rockin_rod]

Also 100,000 followers, doubt all of them are paying members.

there's probably a lot of those followers who are either inactive on the site, or no longer visit, too.
I know in my first year on CB, I got a little carried away with following models and ended up with far too many to realistically stay connected with.
I had to go back through the followed list and remove any that I hadn't visited in recent weeks.

 

[Empty]

I have been lurking from some time here and felt the need to make an account to add to this discussion.

While the point of view about being an independent contractor signing a clear contract with studios can be argued for people working in the USA and western Europe (some in Romania, Colombia and other place too certainly) it absolutely disregards the situation in Ukraine and Russia. Since models from there are omnipresent on camsites the discussion is a bit pointless without talking about them.

The thing is, in this countries, producing porn is illegal (in Ukraine you can get away with it if you stay topless, some studios work with this). So, obviously there are no contract, everyone is paid in cash and there are no worker rights.
The facts models won't be able to keep their account and can be prevented from creating a new one for six months is generally only told to them when they want to leave. Some studios even try to blackmail the models then. I know a model for which the studio made accounts on about every notable sites while she in fact only worked on chaturbate 99% of the time, so the advice about using other sites isn't always helpful. Luckily the 6 months thing is only enforced very randomly (it seems it could be said for about anything on chaturbate. Break or follow the rules you can still be banned or not).

About being an "independent contractor", most of those studios are really intrusive, watching what the performers are doing. A lot of them also fine the models for various things, not working enough (you not only don't get money, they actually take a non-negligible amount from you), not respecting manager advices, not doing certain things, terminating a private early, I could go on but the point is that there is no independence. I have also heard of more sordid things but it's not first hand so I won't go into them.

To counterbalance that, I agree that studios can give a real service when performers start, don't have a place or necessary equipment, are not sure to want to do it for long and so on. I even know an Ukrainian girl who was in a studio which cleanly closed her accounts when she left, a rare thing. But while not illegal it's certainly disgusting that sites are giving studios even more power to control the models.

I won't go into a philosophicopolitical argument about free-will but it should also be noted that non-competition clauses are very restricted in some parts of the world and often considered abusive. For example in France they can only be enforced if you really know some trade secrets and are financially compensated for respecting them. Making them only apply to higher management or key engineers in practice.

 

[snizzarfle]

From my post:


Everyone, please stop assuming the gender or situation of my client. There were 0 contracts signed. Read the TOS and accept it, while the fact remains that in this case this person is being exploited. Something should be adjusted as I've highlighted, so this can't happen. Ownership of followers does not give a person the right to exploit another when they are at their lowest. Ownership should revert to the person who created the followers, not the person who registered the account.

@dark_mermaid To be completly honest, I do find that hard to believe. I've been involved in this industry for just over 5 years and I've not met anyone who follows models because of a studio, knows who owns the studios, etc. I'm not saying those fans aren't created, I just have never met one.

Cheers,
Cexmental

well, you've met one now.. I am a fan of HS (honey studio, or studios) .. i like all their girls, and when i see a new girl with their account name (with HS) i ALWAYS check it out.. the bosses are very nice, and i consider them friends on CB and we PM often. and I can't be the only person who is in this category.. we exist.

 

[Highlander884]

well, you've met one now.. I am a fan of HS (honey studio, or studios) .. i like all their girls, and when i see a new girl with their account name (with HS) i ALWAYS check it out.. the bosses are very nice, and i consider them friends on CB and we PM often. and I can't be the only person who is in this category.. we exist.

What's the state of plastic plants like?

 

[Highlander884]

Is there a online site for models to give feedback on the studios they work for? To let people know how they are if they're looking into joining one for webcam modeling?

 

[AudriTwo]

Is there a online site for models to give feedback on the studios they work for? To let people know how they are if they're looking into joining one for webcam modeling?

Yeah here, stripperweb, and reddit. Most studio models don't participate on industry forums much because they have studio managers who handle all their business. They only come here if Chaturbate banned them or they are moving to be independent.