Stoya has publicly accused James Deen of rape

[LuckySmiles]

I don't know man, heavy stuff. You ever play basketball and get stuck in a shuffle with the ball and can't see and start ramming into your teammate and they're like "same team! same team"

that's how I feel when everyone starts arguing in these threads haha. I feel like everyone talking about it clearly cares about the well being of victims and justice for offenders. But when some opinions make people uncomfortable it gets ugly.

I don't think it's that far reaching to bring up that part of history when discussing mob mentality.

 

[missrosexox]

I have also heard that James Deen raped other women in the industry. Several girls in this forum were vying for his amateur project a couple years ago. I am personally relieved that Stoya said this publicly so folks can be risk aware before they decide to work with him.

For those asking for "proof" or saying James Deen is "innocent until proven guilty," I just want to point out that it is very, very, very, very naive to 1) expect that a woman (especially a sex worker) would choose to get put through the wringer with the criminal justice system as a rape victim and 2) to trust that the criminal justice system determines guilt or innocence by adequately or fairly addressing sexual violence and partner violence by any stretch of the imagination.

When MMA fighter War Machine raped, stabbed, and tried to murder his ex, Christy Mack, he broke 18 bones in her face, shattered her teeth, broke her nose, fractured her ribs, and ruptured her liver. She escaped when he left the room to get a sharper knife and she ran naked from her home, screaming for help. And the defense is still arguing that War Machine isn't guilty of any crimes because Christy Mack's career in adult films suggests that she liked it.

That is the reality of rape trials, especially where sex workers are involved: a woman can get beat within an inch of her life and even that might not be "proof" enough, depending on how "respectable" she is. It's unreasonable to expect victims to go through that.

 

[Teagan]

I don't know man, heavy stuff. You ever play basketball and get stuck in a shuffle with the ball and can't see and start ramming into your teammate and they're like "same team! same team"

that's how I feel when everyone starts arguing in these threads haha. I feel like everyone talking about it clearly cares about the well being of victims and justice for offenders. But when some opinions make people uncomfortable it gets ugly.

I don't think it's that far reaching to bring up that part of history when discussing mob mentality.

That wasnt mob mentality though. That was more self preservation since the woman was facing death for admitting to consensual sex. She would be at a loss loss situation and either one wouldnt really benefit her. So for self preservation reasons claiming rape would be her only way out. That's in no way close to the case now and talking about rape or pornstars. Sorry.



So ive now seen someone saying another victim is willing to speak out as well since Stoya has gone silent until mid next month apparently. Im also seeing Jenna Valentine saying one of her friends was also assaulted by him. These are in addition to the other reports already out on him.

Everyone remember when he put out a thingy saying anyone who wanted to work with him could just contact him and film with him. That he was down with all sizes and shapes and colors and scenes. Many girls here tried to contact him and talked about how amazing it would be to be with him and how sex positive he is and the scenes he's done are so dreamy. Talk of how they love how in scenes he will stop to ask the girl if she is okay, stop for any reason when she asked, etc. How very much caring he seemed. Talk of how much a career boost it could be for a camgirl or an in into porn if someone wanted that. It all fell through and no one ever got a real response from him to go through with it but I remember it very clearly happening. Man i'm glad no one went and actually did it.

 

[SexySteph]

That wasnt mob mentality though. That was more self preservation since the woman was facing death for admitting to consensual sex. She would be at a loss loss situation and either one wouldnt really benefit her. So for self preservation reasons claiming rape would be her only way out. That's in no way close to the case now and talking about rape or pornstars. Sorry.

I don't agree with @LuckySmiles comparison at all but this wasn't an act of self-preservation to prevent death. Most of the time if they'd have been caught they'd have just been publicly humiliated, not killed. This still doesn't compare to the current situation but what those women didn't wasn't exactly defensible.

 

[Teagan]

I don't agree with @LuckySmiles comparison at all but this wasn't an act of self-preservation to prevent death. Most of the time if they'd have been caught they'd have just been publicly humiliated, not killed. This still doesn't compare to the current situation but what those women didn't wasn't exactly defensible.

Ahh okay. I was going off of her saying they would be beaten to death for admitting it alone. Didnt fact check first unfortunately. Not getting beat to death would be self preservation but public humiliation obviously would not be.

 

[LuckySmiles]

It's not a comparison of the scenario, it's using an extreme example to admit there's been women who've falsely accused people of rape, and their word was instantly taken over the accused.
And pointing out a knee-jerk reaction to a one line tweet could potentially be just as dangerous.

It's dangerous to do that with anything and that doesn't change in rape cases. It's not even the same as not believing victims which has been implied over and over in this thread.

My heart goes out to people that have to come forward with it, and I do think it's brave to do so. I hope justice is carried out.

 

[Lexi Emerson]

As someone who has been in a BDSM style relationship and was assaulted by someone I had consented to have rough sex with in the past, I feel even more sad for her. I can imagine people that don't understand the lifestyle and the type of sexual activity she partakes in well will do the whole, "well you are into that kind of thing so it couldn't be rape". It happened to me and it's happened to so many other women I know.

I feel the same way as most of you- I want to support her but I also can't completely condemn James yet. I agree that she doesn't really have a reason to lie about this so it all really breaks my heart.

People suck.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Come to Texas and say this shit to my fucking face, I dare you.

You could not possibly become worse of a person.

 

[Teagan]

If y'all are gonna try to troll someone at least have the fucking balls to do it here like an adult. Man up to your shit talking.

 

[gudheadt]

As someone who has been in a BDSM style relationship and was assaulted by someone I had consented to have rough sex with in the past, I feel even more sad for her. I can imagine people that don't understand the lifestyle and the type of sexual activity she partakes in well will do the whole, "well you are into that kind of thing so it couldn't be rape". It happened to me and it's happened to so many other women I know.

I feel the same way as most of you- I want to support her but I also can't completely condemn James yet. I agree that she doesn't really have a reason to lie about this so it all really breaks my heart.

People suck.

Thats why We should change the main species on earth to cats and not human because as We all know, cats are awsome!!

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Seriously, come say this shit to my face. DO IT. Send me a PM, we'll meet up and you say this to my fucking face.

I'm not scared of you. I'm not scared of any man. Troll me while I'm on cam, while I'm trying to make money all you want. Pathetic.

You see my face right there in my profile pic, lemme see yours.

Come see what this "inbred southerner" will do to your face. I DARE YOU.

 

[NoelleBright]

If y'all are gonna try to troll someone at least have the fucking balls to do it here like an adult. Man up to your shit talking.

He can't because he's banned on here.
We figured out who this was a few weeks ago. Seems he's changed his username since then, but it's the same guy, he's still on my block list.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

What a pathetic piece of shit.

Punk, get a fucking hobby. Holy Shit. Find something else to do.

 

[Guy]

Why is it that most people still dont understand that rape is about power not sex?

 

[Ariel_Moon]

I stand with Stoya. However I don't think this has to mean I blindly support her story and want James strung up and locked away with no trial.

What it means is there is a history of women and particularly sex workers being disbelieved about rape. People didn't use to believe children when they came out as survivors. Actually they still don't sometimes. That shit is fucked up.

Therefore as an activist I will take a political stand with victim. Because I want to take a position that changes our culture.

As a human who loves other humans I don't want to chase James Deen with pitchforks and not listen to why he has to say as no one knows what has actually happened behind close doors except those two.

But my political stance is standing with Stoya and viewing anything James says in his defence with a skeptism - history is on his side, court systems are on his side, and he will definitely be on his side.

So I stand with Stoya.

I don't think this shit needs to be over complicated. Someone has claimed that something terrible had happened to them. They should be supported.
It gets complicated because of the history behind it and our own individual emotional responses.

 

[mynameisbob84]

And... if he took her to court for ruining his name with false accusations would the same people piping up with "innocent until proven guilty" be saying the same in her defense? It just seems like a go to line that helps us all keep our heads in the sand when it comes to talking about rape.

I would. "Innocent until proven guilty" has to work both ways, else it's just dismissing rape claims out of hand. Which is what makes things like this so difficult to comment on. I don't think it's right to assume every man (or woman) accused of rape is automatically guilty, but it's definitely not right to assume that a woman is guilty of accusing an innocent person of rape until she can prove that's not the case. She might never be able to prove that. It doesn't mean the rape never happened.

I don't know what the answer is. I know it's important not to jump to conclusions, to not judge Stoya as anything other than a potential rape victim whose profession should have absolutely no bearing on her ordeal and who deserves all the help she can get, to make it as easy as possible for other potential victims to come forward, to publicly condemn anyone found guilty of rape, to not normalise rape or justify rapists' actions in any way. But other than that, I don't know what we can do - as spectators and commenters - short of assuming that every accused rapist is automatically guilty regardless of whether we're presented with mountains of evidence, or no evidence at all.

 

[JickyJuly]

I don't know the answer either, but I think it starts with getting better at talking about rape. Since no one is on trial, the jumping to "innocent until proven guilty" starts to sound like "don't even bother talking about rape" eventually. That might not be how it is intended, but for an alleged rapist to be innocent the alleged victim has to be lying. So, even if a victim accepts that they can't seek justice because it's a he said she said situation, they're judged for speaking about it at all it seems. If you can't prove rape in most cases and you can't talk about rape without being questioned as a possibly lying, man-hating loon, the only option IS to stay silent. That's awful. Teaching people to stay silent when they are hurt impedes healing and creates better victims. I do think it is important that alleged rapists in a court of law get all the benefits of innocent until proven guilty even if that means guilty people go free, but anyone who feels victimized should be allowed to speak without being treated like they are in court pursuing vengeance. Ultimately, we can listen to someone who speaks out and think about the situation in our own brains without bothering to say that the allegations could be false. I mean, anything anyone says could be false.

And a wrongfully accused person who feels they've been damaged by statements could sue for defamation (idk if that's the right word?) if they felt they were being maliciously targeted. People do have options.

 

[Sevrin]

And a wrongfully accused person who feels they've been damaged by statements could sue for defamation (idk if that's the right word?) if they felt they were being maliciously targeted. People do have options.

And Stoya must know this. I don't think either of these two are stupid people. Thousands of people could testify to the defamation charge, but we only have her word about the rape. She must know this and would have to be nuts to make this up and put a target on her head like this.

Also I have my doubts as to whether this particular alleged offense will go to trial, but it might encourage other victims, if they are out there, to come forward.

 

[Zoomer]

Seems there's two opinions here...
1) Stoya made a claim and the guy should be charged. It almost appears as if making a claim on twitter is sufficient to imply guilty beyond any doubt, let alone reasonable doubt. He's guilty... because someone said so. That's a dangerous precedent to take but understandable in the context.
2) Stoya has made a claim, it needs to be investigated and the guy tried in a court of law; there's due diligence in the legal system and people aren't just guilty because someone said so. They're guilty as they're proven so.

Those who agree with (1) seem to attack people who offer up (2) as what should happen. That's not going to actually make a difference...
Those who state (2) as the correct avenue are, actually, right. The reason (1) attack the opinion of (2) is that they have no faith in the legal system. That is their actual concern. Shouldn't be arguing between the two over what's "right".

The inadequacy of the legal system needs challenging and addressing. Saying there's hundreds of thousands of non reported sexual assaults doesn't mean you shouldn't report sexual assaults. It highlights the problem it currently faces. However, all crimes need to be catalogued as then statistical evidence further reinforces where the issues lay and means to address this put forward. If you don't pursue (2) and just go with (1) then nothing is ever ever ever going to change..

Reporting crime needs to be improved, which means the treatment of victims needs to be improved. Then the massive discrepancies surrounding it (conviction rates) can be challenged, people educated, and maybe a change started. Whilst naming someone in a tweet as being guilty of an incredibly serious crime isn't (in my opinion) the right way to address things, it may also be how things start (sadly). Why? Because if there are more victims currently, they may now come forward.

Forget Cosby, he's small time. Read about Jimmy Saville in the UK. Only once people started coming forward after his death did an incredibly awful history of abuse of children appear - and the scale is utterly repulsive. This highlighted horrific oversight and treatment of victims. Truly horrific - people suspected but never did anything because he was "famous".
Arising from all this - more people are being arrested and jailed for historic sex crimes. They're found guilty without any physical evidence (as it happened decades before) but due to the volume of victim testimonies which have high levels of correlation in the stories.

The really awful thing is that if the people who were victims believed they'd be believed/treated as they should have been, then it could have been stopped decades earlier. So many victims would have not been victims - but the treatment of victims has been appalling. HOPEFULLY this is changing for the better, though conviction rates remain difficult...

There are always going to be victims of any crime - including sexual assaults. What needs to be addressed is how allegations are treated. If the victims have the belief they'll be treated right and possible crimes investigated, then changes can happen. That removes the empowerment of the attackers... if they believe there will be criminal proceedings, they may behave differently and there may never be a victim.

Sadly, avoiding reporting crimes isn't going to make any difference whatsoever - they need to be reported in order to force a change in attitudes and behaviours by recognising that currently they're woefully inadequate bordering on useless.

Is the guy guilty or not? No idea. Could this be yet another missed opportunity to try and create a debate surrounding how badly such crimes are treated and cause a change? Yes (no idea how the debate goes in the US).

Is turning on people who state how victims/accused should be treated helping? Not really.

 

[Sevrin]

Is the guy guilty or not? No idea. Could this be yet another missed opportunity to try and create a debate surrounding how badly such crimes are treated and cause a change? Yes (no idea how the debate goes in the US).

That debate is already ongoing. And nothing is happening because victims are traumatized, stigmatized, disempowered and pathetic, and that's if you believe them. If you don't they are lying or were asking for it.

 

[Zoomer]

That debate is already ongoing. And nothing is happening because victims are traumatized, stigmatized, disempowered and pathetic, and that's if you believe them. If you don't they are lying or were asking for it.

Which is why increasing the numbers of reported crimes is VERY important. Statistical evidence further highlights a huge discrepancy between reported and investigated/convicted crime rates.
Nothing is going to change while people think "nothing is going to change" and so neither report, challenge or highlight the issues continually.

When people continue to repeat "reporting is useless as no-one is going to believe you" it becomes more difficult to facilitate change. A continual discouragement of reporting under the guise of concern about being ignored if you do isn't going to help empower people to take that step despite however slim their chances may be.

 

[Sevrin]

Here's the thing. As a victim, no matter what demonstration is going on in the street that day, you are grieving and have turned inward. You don't see this as just another societal issue, like the availability of public transportation in your neighbourhood. This happened to you. You are the one who will never look at people the same way. You have to decide if you, additionally, want to relive that with your family and co-workers for as many years as it may take to make its way through the justice system, and have them never look at you the same way, and let that event define you, as well. And the way it is, you have very little time in which to make your decision as to whether you want to come forward or not.

That is probably the biggest reason we see the debate moved toward fighting the rape culture that encourages these types of assaults. It's far easier to externalize the trauma by participating in that kind of movement than to deal with the pity of people who will see you as a pathetic victim.

 

[caireen]

I know I remember seeing something about him being accused of assault of some sort against women in the past, but I can't find it anywhere now. It was the first thing that came to mind when I saw Stoya's tweet.

I've always been baffled by why so many people like him, he's always seemed like such a creep to me. (For reasons like this:

I read it was Joanna Angel that accused him of assault (someone said this in Facebook comments but hasn't been able to find the original article they read either).

 

[Finley]

Have not read all of this.

I called out and confronted one of my rapists, 9 years after the fact. Did I press charges? No. I think (I don't have a study to back this up but I can probably find one) the majority of women who are raped don't report it to authorities (the reasons vary from the person who was violated not wanting to have to face their attacker in a court case, not to mention the attackers legal defense will do everything to disprove it happened and even go so far as to slut shame the person who was assaulted, a high % of these cases are thrown out due to lack of evidence, etc.)
When someone says that they were raped I tend to believe them first and foremost. It's really difficult to come public with these things, especially when you are popular and under the microscope. She knew that she was probably going to get a lot of shit from shitty people because of this and she still said it, probably because she couldn't take it anymore. I understand those feels, holding that shit in is hard and it eats away at you.

 

[VallieBeuys]

I just want to add that it's important to remember that an accusation of rape does not automatically ruin a person's life/career. So far Deen hasn't responded to Stoya's tweet and he probably won't. He will likely never acknowledge what she's said about him and his behavior. His tweets paint a picture of someone who thinks rape is a joke, something that happens but isn't serious and can easily be laughed at. He might not think what he did to Stoya was rape at all. In his mind maybe he rationalized what happened and the word "rape" didn't even occur to him. That's not an excuse, just a fact that many people don't see what they've done as being rape. He will likely continue to receive work, continue to get applications from women to do scenes with him. He will likely remain a "feminist icon" to the public. Stoya will be painted as a slut who wanted it and regretted the rough sex later. Or as someone whose consent is implied and therefore cannot be raped. SHE'LL be the outcast. SHE'LL be the one to get less work because now that she's cried rape, she's a liability.

But seriously. There are lots and lots of people who have been accused of rape and assault by more than one person (Jared Leto comes to mind immediately) who still have their careers AND reputations intact as far as the general public is involved. Look at the YouTubers, the Viners, and other people who are popular on the Internet who have been accused of rape, even admitted to having sex with someone who did not or could not consent, but still exist relatively unscathed even after all the dirt came out. Calling someone a rapist isn't nearly the death sentence many people think it is. Rape accusations don't ruin lives. Rapists do.

(And yes, there are always cases of false accusations in ANYTHING, but when it comes to sexual assault and rape the stigma of accusing someone is often greater than the stigma of actually being a rapist.)

 

[eyeteach]

View attachment 59122
Come to Texas and say this shit to my fucking face, I dare you.

You could not possibly become worse of a person.

WT actual F? What a big person; sit behind the anonymity of a computer screen and attack a model. @Poison_Ivy21 you don't need me to back you up but from one Southerner to another, girl, I got your back and then some.

What an effing moron.

 

[Zoomer]

What the very fuck is a "rape culture"?

It sounds like many just like to sweep things under the rug instead of confront them. Rather than attempt to charge people guilty of a crime there's a pervasive "lets ignore that" sentiment and "there's no point trying".

Whilst changing opinions (literally, is the US weird or something where rape is seen as acceptable or something?) may reduce the instances to a degree, it's not going to prevent it nor change how victims are then treated by the police (or society by the sounds of it), nor alter the level of help and counselling that is available afterwards.

If there's a stigma attached - then that needs to be tackled and addressed too.
I don't quite see how repeatedly saying "Nothing can happen" or "Keep quiet as you can't win in court" is remotely helpful, nor advancing society in general. Addressing whatever weird and fucked up world you live in where there's a "rape culture" isn't all that can be done. If victims are feeling ashamed and that they should hide then that needs to be worked upon, not reinforced with "you can't do much..."

 

[JoleneBrody]

Standing with and supporting someone who is dealing with a trauma for having strength does not have to equal anything about the accused. It is about HER and supporting HER.
Standing with Stoya does not mean I think I'm in any place to be the judge of guilt, it just means that I support a colleague who is going through something traumatic because I believe her from a personal standpoint while also being fully aware I am in no way qualified to judge his guilt.

I am however qualified to extend my heart to her in support.

 

[Finley]

@Zoomer Rape culture is a real thing. "rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality."

 

[JoleneBrody]

@Zoomer Rape culture is a real thing. "rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality."

And yes it varies GREATLY country by country, culture by culture.