Snapchat alternative for models

[Puffin]

Following the advice of @Miqote and others to find a way

….to contribute to our caming community, ... in a positive way.

For a few days I have been talking with @SteveR in PM, I didn't know him until he posted on this forum. We have found that we both have spent years as professional software developers and also have run non-adult online websites. With that basis we have been discussing how we could achieve something positive for the camming community.

We both feel the suggestion of @GenXoxo, to create an app would contribute to our camming community. @GenXoxo

Create an app comparable to Snapchat that allows porn & selling of your username. Make sure it doesn't auto-sync with phone contacts or add location services.

In part, such an app seems desirable because of the thread I was just banned and deleted from Snapchat, I'm posting so you others know it IS happening.

Basic app info(work in progress)

Devices: Apple iOS and Android

Privacy/Anonymous
- does not auto-sync contacts or use email/phone number to find friends
- no use of location services

Questions
With the guide of some questions below, please let us know how you feel about such an app and how you imagine it could be.

How do you use snapchat today? Is it just snap and go, do you chat, send emotes? Interact with members? If so, how?

What percent of your snaps are video vs photos? For video, how many seconds do you need?

If you use snapchat of other models, do you want that under a different or same account?

Would you like a model app and a member app with different features or the two combined, so that you can be under a model account and also access snaps of other models?

How concerned are you about losing snapchat in the future? Do you share @GenXoxo's view that a new comparable app is required?

If you are interested in a new app, would you be willing to commit to being an early adopter or beta tester?

When would you like snaps to disappear?

In what way should the development and running of the app be funded? Initial app free or charged for? Free to models and charge members(would mean two apps)? Charge members subscription basis or raise funds from advertising?

In order that the app doesn't get inappropriate content, model imitators and other mischief, up front verification of anyone that can send out one snaps (to many people, not a reply necessarily) is a requirement. Snapchat verifies with a mobile phone number, something that literally proves nothing. Would you be happy to verify on some or all of the following? Sending a PM from some existing verified account? Sending a tweet in your twitter account with some authorisation code? Creating an image holding a piece of paper with some writing as is done with ACF model only verification?

Apple has a policy, quite rightly, that any content must have a 'report' button on it. Something has to happen when a 'report' button is pressed. Would you be interested in being a moderator to check reported content and also new verifications?

 

[Nordling]

I don't understand why such things as Snapchat are limited to people with smart phones. Why not open it up to anyone...including computer users? Instagram is almost like that too...although you can at least view posts without owning a smart phone.

 

[Jessi]

One of my biggest issues about snapchat were the workarounds I had to do to prevent it pulling info about my number, contacts, and device(owner) info. This was on android.

Ideally a snapchat alternative would need no information other than what is required to make it run/ (Ex: camera access, if there was a call in progress or music playing). also it would be nice if it it used whatever the default camera app on the device was. And if you could upload photos from the gallery app by default.

 

[Guy]

Wickr is the only alternative to Snapchat that does not ban pornography https://www.wickr.com/

 

[TacoBelle]

How do you use snapchat today? Is it just snap and go, do you chat, send emotes? Interact with members? If so, how?
I use it to snap and go (MAJOR plus would be a "send to all" button). The chat feature is great so members can give feedback. If they have to wait till they get on Twitter or email to respond about a snap, they'll probably forget. The text over pic feature is almost necessary, I think. I've recently been using snapchat to draw over my pictures, basically turning myself into something else. For me, I have to have the drawing feature for the app to be useful.

What percent of your snaps are video vs photos? For video, how many seconds do you need?
Video: about 25%. I like having the full 10 seconds.

If you use snapchat of other models, do you want that under a different or same account?
I don't see any reason to have a separate account, personally.

Would you like a model app and a member app with different features or the two combined, so that you can be under a model account and also access snaps of other models?
Meh, we can just do like we do now and only send them to the models on our main account.

How concerned are you about losing snapchat in the future? Do you share @GenXoxo's view that a new comparable app is required?
Not really concerned about it. I like the convenience, and it's obviously a huge seller, but it's no big deal if it goes.

If you are interested in a new app, would you be willing to commit to being an early adopter or beta tester?
Yep. Sure.

When would you like snaps to disappear?
Personally, I don't put any on there that I worry about the world seeing. And with as many other apps there are that screencap and save EVERY snap without notifying us, I honestly don't think it matters if they disappear or not.

In what way should the development and running of the app be funded? Initial app free or charged for? Free to models and charge members(would mean two apps)? Charge members subscription basis or raise funds from advertising?
One of the main reasons that we (as models) use snapchat is cause it's free for us and our members to use. There is no subscription fee. Granted, the members pay US for the access, but we don't have to give a cut of that to snapchat. We get the full 100% that the member pays. If you can't support the app through ads or just do it for free, then I don't see many models wanting it.

In order that the app doesn't get inappropriate content, model imitators and other mischief, up front verification of anyone that can send out one snaps (to many people, not a reply necessarily) is a requirement. Snapchat verifies with a mobile phone number, something that literally proves nothing. Would you be happy to verify on some or all of the following? Sending a PM from some existing verified account? Sending a tweet in your twitter account with some authorisation code? Creating an image holding a piece of paper with some writing as is done with ACF model only verification?
I'm not sure what you mean by "inappropriate content" or model imitators. Let's compare to snapchat today. If a member finds someone who claims to be a model (similar username or whatever), then they waste their time talking to an imposter. If he purchases a model's SC, he should give HIS username to the model so she can add him. The only people who would be fooled by an imitator are the guys who try to randomly add models and try to "sneak" into seeing the nudes. We also call them "scammers." Oh well. They deserve to have a model imitator waste their time. As for inappropriate content: what do you mean? Are all of our snaps going to be screened? Are we only allowed to post certain things?
I just don't see the need for any verification, and it will just be extra time wasted on your part trying to verify every account like that.

Apple has a policy, quite rightly, that any content must have a 'report' button on it. Something has to happen when a 'report' button is pressed. Would you be interested in being a moderator to check reported content and also new verifications?
Sure. I wouldn't care about checking the reported content.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@I_Am_Iris When you say ad to all do you mean like the button with the little plus sign over it that sends the snap to everyone rather than individually? I got horribly confused and frustrated by that too, until I was told I could do otherwise.

 

[TacoBelle]

@I_Am_Iris When you say ad to all do you mean like the button with the little plus sign over it that sends the snap to everyone rather than individually? I got horribly confused and frustrated by that too, until I was told I could do otherwise.

No, you're talking about "adding it to your story." Your story is viewable by everyone who follows you, BUT they can see it as many times as they want for 24 hours as opposed to just once (or twice, if they use the "replay" option).

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@I_Am_Iris Ah ok I only use that so I don't have to mess with each one. Personally I don't care how many time they see it, but that's me.

 

[Puffin]

@I_Am_Iris,
Thank you for the reply, it's appreciated that you take the time to answer each questions. Many of the replies are really quite surprising to me. I'll try and answer with explaining in due course, but first will give a few days to allow some more replies.
The amount of feedback so far is discouraging. Hopefully that is because of thanks giving, rather then a general lack of interest.

 

[acep]

In what way should the development and running of the app be funded? Initial app free or charged for? Free to models and charge members(would mean two apps)? Charge members subscription basis or raise funds from advertising?
One of the main reasons that we (as models) use snapchat is cause it's free for us and our members to use. There is no subscription fee. Granted, the members pay US for the access, but we don't have to give a cut of that to snapchat. We get the full 100% that the member pays. If you can't support the app through ads or just do it for free, then I don't see many models wanting it.

Second this. I already pay for the accounts, I have no interest in paying for the app too. Then again I think the ads would get annoying too considering that there's an ad-free alternative, which I realize puts you in a tough spot, but that's how I see it.

When would you like snaps to disappear?
Personally, I don't put any on there that I worry about the world seeing. And with as many other apps there are that screencap and save EVERY snap without notifying us, I honestly don't think it matters if they disappear or not.

No, you're talking about "adding it to your story." Your story is viewable by everyone who follows you, BUT they can see it as many times as they want for 24 hours as opposed to just once (or twice, if they use the "replay" option).

I'm confused, if you don't care about screenshots, why do you care about 24 hour replays?

 

[TacoBelle]

I'm confused, if you don't care about screenshots, why do you care about 24 hour replays?

OTHER models do care about the replays. I was answering this for features that are useful to me AND to other models.

 

[Puffin]

The top post was made with the idea there was some demand for a snapchat alternative, not a clone but something that could be tailored for models, hence the topic title. Now, more then a week later that seems unlikely. It's a quite confusing because the initial post had quite a number of inspiring topics/like but no follow up. I guess I can create a poll to ask specifically if there is interest, rather then attempting to determine what form it might take.

 

[KOTJ74]

These are my thoughts, as I am in this space too in terms of development, but I think there may be a better alternative to developing a mobile app. Feel free to disagree, but here goes...

One of my biggest annoyances with Snapchat is that I very rarely use mobile devices, and the ones that I do have, I don't want Snapchat or whatever on them, because they may be accessible by other people. I understand that this isn't the case for everybody, but to me it's a reality. I do have an old tablet that I do use it on, but since it's only really used for Snapchat, I don't even check it very often. It would certainly be better if I had more viewing options with easier access. Mobile Apps are also extremely expensive to develop, test and market. Plus it's a grind trying to get into this space, because people mostly stick to apps they are familiar with. The cost for development along with your probable user base would make the cost-to-efficiency ratio really high, unless you really get "lucky" on it, and I'm not saying it isn't possible.

So here are my thoughts:

- Instead of developing a mobile app, do this with a responsive (mobile ready) website. That way people can access it through PC or mobile device.

- Give models complete access to their galleries/videos on the site and password protect them. That way the model can choose what, how long, and who has access to the photos. (I don't like Snapchat, because sometimes it takes a moment to load and then you only see it for 3 seconds, which doesn't have much of an appeal to me. Maybe to some.)

- Lock out the photos so that people can't right click, save as, etc... This is very simple to set up. Also, no matter what system you use, photos will be accessible if people know how to get to them through the backend. However, using this as a deterrent will stop most people, because they don't know how to access the files this way. The cool thing about this to is that you can more easily monitor who is accessing your files and how they're doing so. If busted, you just ban there IP, save the logs, and then you can enforce copyright, which could be very bad for the offender.

- In addition to their photos, you could also add icons for their social media, cam sites, or any web pages they have, so that it opens other avenues for promotions and viewing content.

- Put into place an administration/design system that monitors page, gallery builds, etc... so they don't appear bland, distracting, or too busy to users. Many models aren't web designers/developers, and adding this extra support/courtesy could really help them gain exposure.

- Categorize the model pages so that people who randomly come to the site can find models that may interest them based on personal taste. (Example: Blondes, Brunettes, Redheads, Non-nude, Nude, Lingerie, etc...) You can do this with both categories and tags which can really be useful.

- Run a blog/page that auto-feeds to social media so that approved content can be fed to Twitter or whatever else the site is linked to. I would limit this to an admin option so that the content is tasteful and that there's not an excessive stream going into Twitter. Maybe for new models or featured model specials. There are a million ways something like this could be set up. You just don't want 100 or so posts per hour going to the Twitter or the posts will just suffocate each other and users will likely just stop following.

There is more I could say about this, but I'm not going to keep rambling on in case nobody gives a hoot. Hope everybody is having a good day.

 

[SarahLove]

- Instead of developing a mobile app, do this with a responsive (mobile ready) website. That way people can access it through PC or mobile device.



There is more I could say about this, but I'm not going to keep rambling on in case nobody gives a hoot.

Snapchat is easy to use and used by so many because it's easy to just pickup our phone, snap pictures, and send them on the app. Having a new website to do this really isn't very innovative or helpful as there are so very many sites already to send pictures to members. I think having a way for members to actually view them on a website would be convenient but the mobile app is extremely necessary to make the whole thing work.

since this post was directed at models and their preferences all of your rambling isn't all that helpful I think. We know that members want to customise everything to their own desires, but more apps and platforms for models are what the focus of this seems to be.

 

[KOTJ74]

Snapchat is easy to use and used by so many because it's easy to just pickup our phone, snap pictures, and send them on the app. Having a new website to do this really isn't very innovative or helpful as there are so very many sites already to send pictures to members. I think having a way for members to actually view them on a website would be convenient but the mobile app is extremely necessary to make the whole thing work.

since this post was directed at models and their preferences all of your rambling isn't all that helpful I think. We know that members want to customise everything to their own desires, but more apps and platforms for models are what the focus of this seems to be.

I certainly respect your view, but you CAN do this with a "responsive" website. You can snap pictures from mobile devices, upload, edit, etc... The main difference is that this type of website would be easier to build, upgrade, access, and maintain, and wouldn't be limited to phones and tablets. But thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Also, as I mentioned there is a lot more I could share about it, especially how it would be innovative, but not going to bother if people don't care. But I did mention already the support/courtesy admin and design system. I can't tell you how many messy looking profile pages I've seen done by models and people who claim to be designers, and this is on some of what are currently considered to be the top cam sites. I've been to many profiles like this and they either hurt my eyes or I simply can't read the content. I know this space very well in terms of development. Not necessarily cam sites, but I do know what is tried and true in terms of websites, profiles, etc...

Also, please allow me to point out just a few more things, even though people might still not give a hoot...

- When people visit your page, you have approximately 5-10 seconds to display what is called the "value proposition." What this means is that you have to show someone the value in staying on your page and engaging your content in this amount of time. If not, they simply do what's called "bouncing" and they go somewhere else. These are a few of the deal breakers that lead to bouncing:

- Font issues (Too many styles and/or too hard to read.)
- Poor navigation options
- The order of content is poorly organized
- The background design is toxic to the page and makes it hard to read
- Speed kills (Too long to load, so people give up)

There are many others, but those are the main ones. Anyone, done rambling now.

 

[weirdbr]

Having a new website to do this really isn't very innovative or helpful as there are so very many sites already to send pictures to members.

Kotj74 does have a point that having it accessible from a computer would be useful - there's lots of people who either don't have smartphones or wouldn't like the app on their phone for whatever reason; adding more platforms would expand the potential consumer base.

since this post was directed at models and their preferences all of your rambling isn't all that helpful I think. We know that members want to customise everything to their own desires, but more apps and platforms for models are what the focus of this seems to be.

While the initial questions were aimed at models, member feedback should be taken in consideration - after all, members are the ones that would be buying the service from the models.

Mobile Apps are also extremely expensive to develop, test and market. Plus it's a grind trying to get into this space, because people mostly stick to apps they are familiar with.

I would claim (without facts to back my claim) that development costs for mobile apps is just as high as the costs for developing a good site - you can do both for cheap if you want, but you will get what you pay for. As for getting into this space, it's not difficult when you have a good business model behind it - in this case, the fact that it is a no-censoring apps for models and members to share pics/videos would be the main drive. The blocker however is that given its adult nature, this app would be rejected by both the Apple and Google stores, so it would be limited to distribution via other app stores or via direct downloads (and not a lot of people know how to allow third-party apps from untrusted sources).

 

[KOTJ74]

weirdr,

Thanks for your considerate response. In terms of what you suggested about about sites vs apps, I'm not going to go look up numbers at this time, but I think the minimum I've ever seen needed for a good app is around $10K, and that is just the minimum requested from the primary developer to potential backers to get a slice of the pie when and if it goes live and is successful. Also, apps can go much higher than this. A good website in this regard would probably be in the $2000 range and up, depending on the details. And just like apps, it can go considerably higher. It just depends how expansive it is. Of course, there is the possibility for someone to take it on to similarly what would be considered a pro bono basis for the good of the cam modeling community. Regardless of the platform, it would definitely take a bit of time. If I were to do it, it would probably take at least till January 1st to even have something like this ready for a soft launch to kind of test the market and the response to it. Even with a small team, it could still take that long to complete.

Agree with what you said about a good business model.

Agree with what you said about there being a blocker and difficulty with users knowing how to enable third party apps.

With all that being said, you could always do a site and then integrate it with a mobile app later after you have a following and have gained some exposure. This also would give you an opportunity to educate people on how to download or use the app. You could even go as far as to allow downloads directly from the site.

All-in-all, there are many different ways to do something like this. It's just a matter of determining the resources that are available and establishing that people are actually interested. Just my thoughts. Thanks again for sharing yours.

 

[Puffin]

Unfortunately this idea of a 'Snapchat alternative for models' has been dropped.

The main two reasons are
- Not much interest from models
- Attitude of Apple. Such as the app guidlines

18. Pornography

• 18.1
  Apps containing pornographic material, defined by Webster's Dictionary as "explicit descriptions or displays of sexual organs or activities intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings", will be rejected
• 
  Apps that contain user generated content that is frequently pornographic (e.g. "Chat Roulette" Apps) will be rejected

and also

"We do believe we have a moral responsibility to keep porn off the iPhone ... Folks who want porn can buy an Android phone" — Steve Jobs

Thank you for everyone that responded to this thread and the poll.