Samples of Custom Video Requests

[Gerald75]

Hello @msbiancabaker

Yes the guy is charged a fee but I don't see the cut so for me if the guy doesn't mind paying then its not an issue.

I am sorry you think like this, because business wise this is having a direct impact on you. You could either make more money per transaction if the vendor cut was lower, or complete more transactions: guys who mind paying 43% fee may not mind paying 20% fee.

I am not saying C4U is a bad service, you like it, they offer tons of things, many girls use it.. but I think their cut is excessive.

Sometimes NO matter what you do the guy is unsatisfied- these guys purchasing custom content is seeking something specific or they wouldnt have ordered the custom to begin with- the issue here --> I do this full time BUT a lot of girls don't and I get a LOT of customs- Im not going to re-do something that I did perfectly but the guy sees imperfections with- You wanting the model to give a guy an incentive is ridiculous > I would never re do something I did perfectly -

I think there's a misunderstanding there. Sometimes you deal with people who cannot be satisfied, I agree with that, but the key word here is "sometimes".

Assuming someone who made a chargeback is likely to be someone who got unsatisfied by the service/content he received - either rightfully or not -, I want to give an incentive to the MODEL - not the guy! - to contact him and figure out why he got unsatisfied and chargebacked the money, and see if she could have him become satisfied. This is basic customer support which I want to empower the model in doing.

In case the customer becomes satisfied, i.e. he cancels his chargeback or make the transaction again, I would pay the model for successfully turning the situation around: making us both an happy customer again instead of an unsatisfied one!

 

[DeezNA]

There are two pretty glaring issues that I see right off the bat: customer service method and paycut. I'll try to stay on those, as we all know I have a tendency to ramble.

Customer Service method: So far, I am seeing that you will investigate chargebacks/refund requests and try to ensure customer satisfaction. Okay. This should be a given if you are taking a hands-on approach to payment brokering. Here are the problems I am seeing in your management of these issues. With chargebacks/refunds, the two solutions you propose are:
1) pay the refund and ban the customer
2) make the model deal with it and reward them for resolving it

Just to be clear - fraud, identity theft, scamming... these are all illegal activities. I understand you not wanting to get your hands dirty, but if you are opting to simply ignore and ban illegal activity rather than take legal action or intervene if necessary... it's perpetuating the stigma of this industry being a "high-risk industry". The models are not putting you at risk. The content is not putting you at risk unless you consciously facilitate trade to places where it is illegal. It's the customers: scams, fraud, impersonation - they put you at risk. Regardless of how much risk you choose to take (yes, you get to choose your level of involvement), models will always take more of a risk - it would be wise to remember that. This is why I stress the security angle so much, but security is much more than just locking away information, it's about protection.

Models already deal with this without using your service and tend to deal with it much more in depth and with a lot more care than you would since it's both literally and figuratively their own ass on the line. There is only one case in which the customer would actually need a refund - if they did not receive what they paid for. This is subjective to the customer and easily/often manipulated. If the customer is not happy with their custom, they know how to reach the model to attempt renegotiation, if they did not receive content in the time frame they expected it's the same deal. Either the model did their job and the customer is being picky or trying to get free shit... or the model is trying to scam the customer. Could be something in the middle or a misunderstanding as well. Either way, that's not really your problem since you already got paid for providing your service, right? Only becomes a problem when the bank wants the money back... Well... if you're taking a flat-rate off the top... I'd expect some level of intervention/arbitration instead of essentially saying "do it yourself" and then patting us on the back for doing what we're already doing without a paycut. It's very easy for an unbiased third-party to mediate on a case-to-case basis when provided evidence from both parties, it just requires a knowledge of the system and the desire to actually do the job. If we are dealing with the customers and PSP directly, there's really no reason for you to be there, right?

This leads me into my second observation:

Paycut: If you are taking a steady paycut off of every transaction instead of a one-time fee for choosing to use your transaction service, there typically needs to be an ongoing service that is being provided. I don't see the need for either the model to take a paycut or the customer to pay more simply for a convenience and not an ongoing service. Graphic designers and coders do not get paid royalties from ad revenue or purchases made on sites they designed. Paycuts work like a subscription fee - rather than pay a fee to use your service and then be free to do our business, we are taking a steady percentage paycut (or invoking a price spike to our customers) for a specific, ongoing service. If your only service is convenience... I don't see a need for commission fees for that rather than a single payment. Netflix adds new movies, MMO's add new content and customer support... if we are taking a steady paycut, you need to provide a steady service to compensate for that loss - show us why we are paying you rather than doing it ourselves, especially when you are sort of insinuating we do almost all of the work ourselves anyway... If all you are doing is providing a direct conduit for us to interact with a PSP, that sounds like an app more than a service. You don't pay subscription fees for apps.

This leads me to seeing a crossroads here: either have it be a one-time charge to install/integrate your service into our business model or have an ongoing percentage cut and provide some kick-ass support and active features. I see that you are leaning towards the second option, but I would really reassess your methods of dealing with this, both practically and legally.

We opt for a 50% cut on using tokens voluntarily because camsites provide us a venue, traffic and ongoing support. I advertise using tokens so that I can keep my prices and offers consistent and make them less confusing; also to be able to advertise in my room constantly and interactively with my customer base. Tokens are non-refundable and if there is a dispute over any of that, the site and its airtight ToS has my back. This is not the case with your service - the customer is either banned or I have to deal with it on my own. In the off chance that you decide to ban one of my loyal regulars (or anyone you really want) under suspicion of illegal activity... or leave me to deal with a con-artist on my own... I think I'll stick with GiftRocket's ~7% processing fee.


In response to your comments about bringing more purchases off-site... where are we bringing them? There is no tangible marketplace here, so we are sorta juggling our own purchases - that's totally fine, many of us do this anyway - but you're not currently offering us a place to do that, or any assistance in doing that, or any help bringing in traffic. You're offering us convenience, and you're not even really offering it to the models, you're focused on quick and easy purchases for the customer. I don't know why you would "get sad" when a model consciously chooses to use a payment method that they are fully aware is a 50% cut when the site who is taking that cut brought them the customer and facilitated the purchase. The model is fully aware of the price differential and compensates other prices to balance it out. Using your example, if my price that I want to set is $17 (not the nice, round $20 I used in my example) I would set the price at 340 tokens (not 200) and then offer a GR deal of $20 if I wanted to bring it off site. This way if people choose to use GR, they would pay less than the camsite (even with the processing fees, about $23) and I would make more. If they want to keep it on-site they will pay more but they will use a currency they are familiar with and that I can actually advertise/sell my product in.

I know a lot of this is behind-the-scenes model stuff but it's pretty overt business sense. We take massive paycuts for traffic, protection/security, work venues, etc. already, if you're going to propose adding on another 15-25% in losses you're really going to have to sell us on why and I'm simply not seeing it yet. If your product is aesthetics and novelty... that's much more suited to a one-time fee (trust me, I have an Art Degree). If you are willing to commit to consistent, quality services... I would see a paycut as not outside of the realm of reason.

 

[Dani Picas]

@DeezNA You are on top of this!

In my opinion..
Chargebacks should be covered.
Models that have frequent or unnecessary chargebacks or complains should be investigated and banned. Same goes for members.
I think on cammodeldirectory.com they ban you for life if you get three chargebacks. And on customs4u.com they double check all transactions over $100. They might be things you want to think about implementing.

 

[Gerald75]

Hello @Dani Picas thanks for joining the thread and sharing information. You are right about banning and double checking transactions over a certain amount. What do you think about the rest of the product?

@DeezNA I totally understand what you are saying about disputes, and I would gladly step-in as a trusted third-party everytime I am asked. To do so though, I need to know what was the deal and whether or not it was fulfilled. Basically, I need the content or service to have been delivered through my site - which will not always be the case, and when it is not the case I pretty much cannot know whether the model or the customer is right.

This is why I was proposing the model should take care of it, if she wants to. But the model has already been paid: chargeback protection, so I thought for the model to go and ensure customer support it would require an incentive.


About the paycut, I do not understand the argument you are trying to make. For each and every transaction processed online, there are fees to be paid to the people processing it (banks, PSP). Those fees generally comes in a flat amount per transaction + a percentage of the gross amount of the transaction.

We have to transfer over those fees over either to the person paying - on-top fee - or to the model - revenue share < 100% - or we would be losing money on each and every transaction. Even giftrockets which has pretty low fees, partly because they are not adult friendly (that makes fees double at least), is charging you 7%.

So processing transactions / getting money sent to you digitally is already something for which you are willing to take a "steady paycut", without traffic, venue and so forth.

Now the question is, in regard to our service, would you be willing to use it in some cases - taking an higher paycut than with GR - because it provides you with benefits you want: convenience, recurring payments, billing EU customers as well, adult friendly, billing on your site and so forth.

In response to your comments about bringing more purchases off-site... where are we bringing them? There is no tangible marketplace here, so we are sorta juggling our own purchases - that's totally fine, many of us do this anyway - but you're not currently offering us a place to do that, or any assistance in doing that, or any help bringing in traffic.

Can you detail a bit what you are saying? Would you need us to power a page for you where all your contents are hosted and accessible for sale? Kinda like a personal one-page store where you'd keep your high revshare and to which you can direct your customers to?


About the tokens, I understand that you currently find this solution more convenient and "worth it" because you can advertise without adapting your messages, the place where the deal has to take place is already set : the cam site, and so forth. They brought you the customer and facilitate transaction, I agree as well but once the guy is following you on Twitter / in touch with you by other medium he is now Your customer as well. Not just your customer brought by chaturbate.

Whenever you are dealing with this customer directly, for example via social media or email, I see no reason to go with Chaturbate 50% cut except convenience - which I wish to replace - and being nice to them because they brought you the customer in the first place.

The only real reasons to take consistently a 50% cut from Chaturbate are purchases happening directly on their site, and especially Live Shows: these transactions are intrinsically different because they cannot be "direct" by nature. Many people are crowdfunding your show, which cannot be replaced by Skype or any off-site transaction.

 

[Dani Picas]

@Gerald75 Thanks. Honestly, it sounds like customs4u. It sounds like it could be successfull, but you need to make sure the percentage is as high for models as possible and that you help generate traffic and that the software works smoothly. Otherwise, there isn´t much of a reason for a model to make another account.

Honestly, I get a lot of people who message me from other sites and want to pay with a cheaper way, I tell them to tribute on customs4u because of the 80% commission.

What percentage were you aiming to have?
Can models upload and sell videos on photo sets?
It sounds like Extralunchmoney or customs4u, what is different about your site?
We all know it is expensive to start an adult site, but there is competition that does decent rates. (not including chat sites)

 

[Dani Picas]

Ps. I get that you want to make ordering videos easier, but I think there is a way to not cut out model interaction (it´s a big part of the experience and I don´t mind it). Like, a guy can email you withwhat he would like and you can say awesome! Go to my page, put it under this category, choose the time and pay! Or, make a custom link. That I think is a good idea.

 

[Gerald75]

@Dani Picas Yes you are right there are similarities with Customs4U but we should differentiate on a few points.

I've seen on your personal site that you give C4U as favorite payment method, clicking on the Customs4U button leads to this page http://www.customs4u.com/customs/dirty-dani-picas which is a bit weird/unadapted I believe for a customer as it is only for custom videos. Also I think it does not work very well on mobile. By the way, I believe on this page your revshare is only of 70% (they add 43% on-top of your requested price as a processing fee for the customer). How can I make you a 80% tribute?

We want to make just a responsive payment system initially, so all these menus and drop downs will not be there and your customer will arrive on a much more clear and concise page.

What percentage were you aiming to have?

Similarly to C4U, we will not have a revshare system but a processing fee on top for the customer. You receive your requested amount fully.

This fee will be between 15 & 25%, to be decided, and chargebacks will be covered. We're thinking models processing a high numbers of transactions with us should get better % as they reach higher amount of money. So it should be definitively lower than C4U.

Can models upload and sell videos on photo sets?

Initially no, we want to focus only on the payment first, make it great, and then add content delivery and hosting as first priority.

It sounds like Extralunchmoney or customs4u, what is different about your site?

Our main benefits compared to these services will be:

- our site will work perfectly for everyone on any device

- our processing fee will be lower / our revshare higher (depending on how you see it) so that you can make more money either by asking for more while it costs the same to your customer, or lower his purchase price so he can buy more often

- you will be able to generate very quickly payment pages but setting up an amount and a description, and we give you the page URL. These pages will come in handy for the following reason:
--> if you want to sell me something after an email conversation for example, you generate an URL, email it to me and I can pay directly. You're notified as soon as it is the case.
--> you will be able to set "recurring payment pages" so that your customer gets billed every day/week/month depending on your agreement
--> later on, when we add content hosting/delivery, you'll be able to link a content to a payment page so that as soon as your customer pays he is given the link to download - makes direct sales easier as well as selling from your website -

- Customers would not have to sign up as on C4U.

Please let me know what you think about it.

I have seen that you made >100 sales on Customs4U, I would love to ask you some "business questions" like how much is the average ticket, how long have you been using their service etc. Would you be up to answer such questions (maybe by PM?) or is this too personal?

Have a great day,
Gérald Billoir

 

[DeezNA]

This is where knowledge of the industry's inner workings are really important, I think a few things are getting muddled here.

To do so though, I need to know what was the deal and whether or not it was fulfilled. Basically, I need the content or service to have been delivered through my site - which will not always be the case, and when it is not the case I pretty much cannot know whether the model or the customer is right.

This is why I was proposing the model should take care of it, if she wants to

This is customer support in a nutshell. It makes me really question what services you are actually offering or if you have ever brokered a transaction before. The point of brokering a deal rather than doing it yourself is knowing your money is in safe and impartial hands and having a knowledgeable and unbiased third-party handling it in case there is a dispute. If there is any issue, your job (as hypothetical broker) would be to investigate both sides of the issue, gather information that you do not have (since you are not actually hosting the transaction nor do you have any documentation of it since the transaction is happening outside of your hands, this would likely be all the information) and try to resolve the issue to the best of your impartial abilities given the evidence you have. A.K.A case investigation and arbitration.

If you are simply transferring all the information to the PSP, you would not have any information on financial transactions. If you are not transferring content, you would not have record of this either. You, therefor, would either have to gather all the information manually and hope that it is accurate and not falsified (and if so, decipher which is accurate) or not partake at all in arbitration. This leads me to the question of how much of our transaction information you would actually have access to or plan on keeping record of. If you are not providing customer service, there is no reason for you to even have access to our transaction information. If you are simply facilitating a transaction between us (the model and the clients) and the PSP... I'm not entirely sure what on-going service you are providing in which you are taking a percentage cut. Yes, the PSP would be charging a percentage, I get that... but why are we paying you a percentage on top of that? If it's a convenience fee... that would fall under "one-time payment" in my book. This is what I was trying to communicate in less words, if it's not understood I can try to clarify more.

We have to transfer over those fees over either to the person paying - on-top fee - or to the model - revenue share < 100% - or we would be losing money on each and every transaction. Even giftrockets which has pretty low fees, partly because they are not adult friendly (that makes fees double at least), is charging you 7%.

You would not be losing money. We are losing money. We are already doing these transactions, you are not... therefor you are not losing money by doing these transactions, you are simply making less than you potentially could be. GiftRockets do not have a steady percentage cut, they have a scaling percentage (15% at $20, 7% at $100, ~5% at $1000, etc.) and they offer customer support, convenience, anonymity and security. There is also a difference between "adult-only" and "adult-friendly". GR currently facilitates a lot of adult industry deals, that would definitely qualify as "adult-friendly". Your service would only pertain to adult industry deals, I would qualify that as "adult-only".

Can you detail a bit what you are saying? Would you need us to power a page for you where all your contents are hosted and accessible for sale? Kinda like a personal one-page store where you'd keep your high revshare and to which you can direct your customers to?

This is where I can't really answer your questions until you decide whether you are offering a convenient payment form/app or a full marketplace. If you offer a marketplace, all that stuff about transaction history and content transfer information... you would have full documentation of that and I would expect you to bring your A-game for customer support. There are many content marketplaces out there, they provide a venue, traffic and options for payment services. They take a cut accordingly, and I think you are starting to see why they take the cut that they do.

If we are doing all the work and you aren't really doing anything but putting our hand into the PSP's so that we can shake... why are we paying you for every transaction? If we all rallied together right now, we could talk to the same PSP's you are, spread the word on the forum of who is adult friendly and write up a nice tutorial of how to code a payment system into our websites (those of us that have them) and do it all directly with the PSP without giving any cut off the top of our income to you. I would only sacrifice any of my income off my hard-earned commissions for a damn good reason, I'm sure you can empathize with that.

This is where I say once again, you might need to reassess whether you are willing to provide an ongoing active service or if you are providing a convenience app. Those are very different entities - one is a service, one is a product. I am not going to take a percentage cut on every transaction simply for using a specific product. I paid once for my cam, I'm not going to pay a service fee every time I decide to use it. A service that provides benefits... that I would, and do, take a cut for.

I agree as well but once the guy is following you on Twitter / in touch with you by other medium he is now Your customer as well. Not just your customer brought by chaturbate.

You highly overestimate the amount of business that models make via Twitter. Twitter is not where models establish bonds with customers, that is extremely rare. Twitter is where we try to keep in touch and maintain the bonds established usually over the duration of many cam sessions. So yes, that customer is actually brought in and solidified in "loyalty" through our respective camsites (some camsites contractually forbid off-site contact in any form: Twitter, email, etc.). I would love to have a Top 100 MFC model drop in here and present a general percentage of how much of their revenue comes from Twitter. It doesn't matter if you have 100 or 100,000 followers, the customer will only buy something if they want it.

The only real reasons to take consistently a 50% cut from Chaturbate are purchases happening directly on their site, and especially Live Shows: these transactions are intrinsically different because they cannot be "direct" by nature. Many people are crowdfunding your show, which cannot be replaced by Skype or any off-site transaction.

I would really recommend having a sit-down with some models and talking shop a little bit before jumping to absolute statements about your ideal vision of how a camming business-model works. It may seem to you that it's absurd that we settle for a 50% cut, until you realize that without camsites we have 0 fucking customers, no place to work, no traffic, no customer support and no advertising... then you start to get it. There's a reason everyone gets outraged when customer support on camsites doesn't respond right away or doesn't do a good job... we're sacrificing a big income percentage for that service. If you start up a camsite, can bring me a steady HQ stream, good traffic, consistent and helpful customer service and are male-friendly: you have my business, hands-down.

There is a massive difference between live-camming and selling pre-recorded/customized content. Just because a live show hosts multiple customers doesn't make the payments any less direct - if the customer wants the show entirely to themselves and the model offers it, privates are always an option... even group shows if they feel like "crowdfunding" their private time with some friends. Skype is typically contractually warned against if not forbidden due to its high risk, I have never offered it and always warn fellow models to be aware of the security risks.

As for your crowdfunding comment, this is actually a huge selling point for using on-site transactions... ironically... If someone visibly sees one of their fellow regulars purchasing a video or partaking in a raffle or sales event in a cam room, they are much more likely to join in than if they are just idly surfing through Twitter. This goes double if the video/custom/raffle purchases go towards a common goal. It encourages "crowdfunding" by giving extra incentive to spend and every expenditure by customers shows other potential customers that you are "worth" spending money on.

- Customers would not have to sign up as on C4U.

Noooo n-no no no no no. What? No. When did this happen?

How the fuck are you going to track customers (or how are we supposed to do it, I should say) if they don't sign up? Why are models being ID checked and "verified" and customers are not even registering?! There's a reason people are "forced" to sign up for sites like this - LEGALITY. You should know better than anyone that signing up for any site or service is not simply an inconvenient little step... it's accepting a legally binding contract to obey they Terms of Use with the service or product. If you are snipping out any kind of legal protection for yourself, the PSP or most importantly the model for the simple sake of convenience and "saving time" for the customer, you are just setting yourself up for a shitstorm of Biblical proportions. I said before and I will say one more time - it's not the model, the PSP or the content you need to worry about, it's the customers. Models aren't stealing credit cards to buy porn.

I would highly recommend re-exploring or re-explaining this part of the idea, this is a huge red flag.

 

[Gerald75]

Sorry DeezNA, but I cannot always end up agreeing with you.

You are assuming too many things in this last post. Basically that things should work as you think they should work.

There's a different between processing a deal and brokering a deal, and brokering does not imply customer support by definition. My job, if anything, is definitely not to do investigation & arbitration. It is to decide whether we should go with investigation & arbitration, or for example with a "satisfied or reimbursed", or with a "if a chargeback happens we pay you no matter what, but please try to fix the issue with the customer it would be greatly appreciated and we'd pay you even more".

It's not because you are transferring information to a PSP that information are no longer accessible to you, or most definitely that you can gather (or would have to gather) that information manually. All this flow you are assuming in regard to how information transfer works is erroneous. Facilitating transactions between people is not "simple" thing. Convenience does not have to be "one-time fee".

Giftrocket is definitely not gonna offer you customer support over an unhappy customer of yours who sent you $100 via Giftrocket for a custom video. Try them, let me know how it goes. And yes Gift rocket is a great product with which we would not able to compete on quite a few points, but GR only works in the US and is not processing payments on your personal site.

If we all rallied together right now, we could talk to the same PSP's you are, spread the word on the forum of who is adult friendly and write up a nice tutorial of how to code a payment system into our websites (those of us that have them) and do it all directly with the PSP without giving any cut off the top of our income to you.

Be my guest.

Your process does not look very easy to carry on, I think after you tried you may come back to me to get the PSP "easily and for a fee". Especially given that PSP discounts their fee by the volume, it's very likely I offer you a better fee than the PSP would actually give you directly as I would be aggregating a much larger of transactions. And diluting my costs of running the business along the way.


You are taking a percentage cut on every transaction simply for using Gift Rocket, which is a web product. Paying a service fee every time you use your cam, or a subscription per month to have a cam may actually be a better option. Have you noticed they sell iPhones like this these days? http://mashable.com/2015/09/09/iphone-upgrade-plan/#vh4zYh7bIGq0


I understand Twitter is about retention, not traction, and that it is not making much money to most models right now. I also think it is not exploited in this way for now. When you are maintaining bonds with your fanbase over Twitter, it is also the marketing occasion to let them know that every content you sell on Chaturbate you also sell on DeeznaIsAwesome.com at a 30% discount while making 30% more money.

Maybe Twitter income would keep suxing anyway when doing that, I cannot know. But this is what I mean by pushing for off-site transactions. Yes Chaturbate brought you the customer in the first place, and it totally made sense to take a 50% cut, but now that you have his eyeball on a medium where you can advertise "off-site" transactions legally.. it makes business sense doing so: no reason to get a 50% cut consistenly - even though that could be interpreted as a lack of loyalty toward the initial feeding hand -.

Talking convenience, getting you a page where all the recorded contents you sell on Chaturbate are available for sale on www.deeznaisawesome.com we could put it at one drag and drop & one click away from you. You sign-up with Twitter, drop your content and boom your page is running. Whenever you have a new follower we send him an automatic message saying "Hey mate, I am glad to have you there. All my contents are on sale on www.deeznaisawesome.com, 30% less expensive than on CB! Here is a one-time promocode for 20% additional discount AZE763J ".

Each promocode is unique, when used we can relate it to what Twitter account it was given to in the first place... and let you know who is your follower base is purchasing contents from you, how often, what contents. Wanna talk consumer support? Engage with them, grow your relationship with actual buyers that you may not have known about otherwise.

Sorry but I am a little pissed of reading consistently I am aiming at doing no work, I come here and engage with you and all the models willing to do so because they are so many things we could do, but yes we are not in your shoes and we need to learn from you what could be useful. I come here and I do not assume I know about your job, so please don't go and assume so much about me.


Concerning the sign-up, you are right I should explain better.

The customer has an account created, but does not have to sign-up. This is slightly different: we'd ask him for his email indeed, so that he can be contacted, invoiced etc. and generate him an account automatically. By going onto his account for the first time, from the verification email, he could set his password. We are likely to collect other information as well, but this will depend purely on maths: ratios of completed transactions vs fraud vs visits and so forth, depending on the information collected in order to complete the transaction.

The reason why we force sign-ups to sites is very rarely legality, ToS generally starts applying as soon as you are using a service. Why we create, or ask people to create accounts, login and so forth, is generally simply data persistence...

 

[CorinneCooper]

Well gee.. according to the long thread on SW, you made it seem like everyone over here just LOVED your ideas. But in reality-- it is going much like that other thread, just with fewer direct insults tossed back and forth.

 

[Gerald75]

Hmm I'm just going to post below the 2 paragraphs where I mentioned ACF on Stripperweb and let everyone judge for himself.

Paragraph 1:
Actually I've been chatting with models on ACF as well, and it would appear the form for custom videos interests no one without traffic. The payment part on the other hand, in particular conveniently having customers paying an indie model via credit card though had more interest. So with the various feedbacks we collected, we decided to focus on payments only and hatched out the following product:

Paragraph 2:
- chargeback protection (I got to discuss this a lot with ACF models, and figured we'd better charge customers a bit more on every transaction and protect models from chargebacks - kinda like an insurance -)

?!

 

[CorinneCooper]

The point is... its "cute" that you decided to namedrop as if to imply the forums are competing. Much like everything that has been said over there.... you don't get it. People are not going to flock to a newcomer who doesn't appear to know what he is doing, particularly one who flat out says he doesn't really care about the "morals" of it.

 

[Gerald75]

Sorry but I think you missed the point, I was replying to a model wondering why I was asking her about recurring payments given that it does not make sense for billing custom videos. You are the one thinking of competition when you see ACF acronym on Stripperweb, not me!

You are trolling again by misquoting "morals" from one forum to another. I do not understand the point of what you are doing??

 

[Dani Picas]

@Gerald75
The tribute on the right bottom corner gives me 80% and you are right, they have a lot of improvements to work on. They are updated it as we speak, but I don´t know what with.

I think that models that make more should be rewarded, thats fair. But as long as it´s doable.

To be honest I have answered so many peoples questions and then they don´t end up making the site. So, seeing as it´d be unpaid time for me, I´m a bit reluctant. I don´t mind helping on here though.

Also I second @DeezNA on the twitter and customer service point.

If you can take the good and bad feedback and make a great site I don´t see the issue with anyone either being in agreeance or not... the point of you making this is to get our opinions and make a site that works for everyone right? You might not know whatyou are doing... but atleast you are trying to get our point of view no?

 

[CorinneCooper]

Yep.. that is the most frustrating thing to me in this particular instance. In normal business, when a person is opening up shop, they will often spend the money on consultants and experts in the field to ensure they "do it right". For whatever reason.. every wanna-be net-pimp thinks that in this particular industry-- we should just hold their hand for free.

 

[DeezNA]

Sorry but I am a little pissed of reading consistently I am aiming at doing no work, I come here and engage with you and all the models willing to do so because they are so many things we could do, but yes we are not in your shoes and we need to learn from you what could be useful. I come here and I do not assume I know about your job, so please don't go and assume so much about me.

Of all the things that I disagree with in this post, I see that it all comes down to personal feelings and a sense of defensiveness, @Gerald75 .

@Dani Picas and @KatrinaVega worded this a lot gentler than I will...

I have not put the amount of time I have into giving you lengthy, in-depth responses to your (I thought) genuine attempts to create a valuable product for cam models from my 2+ years of running my own business by my own goddamn self just to make jabs at you. The reality is that yes, I do know about your job. I have been doing it actively in my own off-site transactions for over 2 fucking years and that's just a small part of my job. I have also worked as a consultant for an investment management company for several years as well, so yes, I actually do know quite a bit about what precautions have to be taken for that to be a functional, secure, reliable, pro-fucking-fessional business and not just a ploy to skim money off the top of peoples' transactions.

This isn't a hobby for most of us, it's a full time job. We are business owners - we do graphic design, advertising, video shooting/editing/production/distribution, branding, sales and company management on top of regular live performances entirely by ourselves. In establishing this service, you would be taking a role in assisting us with one small aspect of our businesses, yet you won't take the time to actually get to know how we run that aspect of our business. Would you do business with someone like that?

You say that I don't know about your job... do you even know about your job? Do you even know what your job is yet? You don't even have complete framework for your service/product yet you're waving your flag around like you invented payment transaction management. You haven't really listed off an actual service you are planning on actively providing besides blindly introducing us to a merchant and designing yet another form. I wish the business was that simple, it would make everyone's lives easier! You claim transparency and yet you can't even give us a straight answer on what percentage cut you are taking directly from us and why you are taking it. Yes, I get that you have to do the math on what the PSP would be charging, but there's a percentage tacked on the front of every quote you give that goes right into your pocket that you are still keeping completely concealed and unspoken. If GiftRocket can go as low as 7% per $100 and cut a profit, that tells me that the PSP they use likely takes about 5ish% (maybe less, maybe more)... even giving you the benefit of the doubt that the one they use is on the low-end and the service you choose takes... let's say 10%... you're still taking 5-15% of our commission for reasons you either can't or won't justify.

I have been very delicate around these points since they can be taken out of context but since you seem to be reading into things anyway... The only thing that hasn't changed in your design since you walked in the door has been the fact that you want a percentage cut and you still won't tell us what work you are doing for which you deserve part of our hard-earned commission. You're not bringing us customers, you're not bringing us services we don't already have, you're telling us to do all the "hard parts" of your job that you don't really feel like doing - you just want a reason to make a profit. I get that. I'm actually trying to help you do that. The only thing is... if you throw models under the bus simply to make a profit rather than value us as business partners, you're not going to have anyone using your service... whatever it turns out to be...

The more you focus on "customer convenience" and neglect actual services for models, the more you steer this into a tool to take a commission for doing nearly nothing. That's pretty much exploitation, not providing a quality service.

Like I said in prior posts, I have been talking to you here to try and help you create something that models would actually want to use - it's your decision whether you want to listen to model feedback or simply get flustered and point fingers when someone gives you constructive feedback on cracks in your design. If that's the choice you want to make, that's entirely on you - it's your product.


Feel free to let us know if you actually want to learn a few things from people who have been making these transactions for years and running successful businesses that would actually be using your service. Otherwise, I really have nothing else to say here besides good luck.

 

[Gerald75]

Hello,

@Dani Picas Oh yea I found the tribute part, thanks! I think it'd be great if they had a page with only tribute toward a model, would be more clear when you give the URL.

To be honest I have answered so many peoples questions and then they don´t end up making the site. So, seeing as it´d be unpaid time for me, I´m a bit reluctant. I don´t mind helping on here though.

Ok I understand, I am totally up to pay for your time / answers though. Please let me know if you may be up for it, in that case and I'd send you a short PM with the questions I'd like asking so you can tell me your price?

@KatrinaVega This is the methodology we are using for setting up sites http://theleanstartup.com/principles, it's a "normal business" methodology. We are also talking with lawyers, experts in payments and so forth. There are quite a few info we can only have from you, the potential users. If you would rather not spend time engaging with us, I totally understand, I am forcing no one to reply here..

Also I'm not a "net-pimp" wannabe, adult industry just appears to be an easier business in some regards: many talented people refuse to work in it due to morals / not having to tell their friends & family etc. So opportunities are more numerous.

@DeezNA first of all, I am sorry for getting a bit mad. Whatever my take was on your message, I should have not shown any aggressivity.

I like and value your feedbacks, I have learned quite a few things from you since we first chatted while I was at startup weekend. The data structure/handling which you were laying out, that we'd need to manually gather it etc. was wrong imho, as well as your example of you easily gathering models, knocking at a PSP door and aggregating transactions with a lower cut on payment processing.

That got me a bit pissed, at it was used to prove that what we want to do is pointless whereas the arguments behind are not reflecting reality. I have to say though, that I have duly noted on our board to provide tangible, clearly identifiable value and that "convenient payment processing" is not really part of it, arbitration is. So yes, I took the feedback.

You claim transparency and yet you can't even give us a straight answer on what percentage cut you are taking directly from us and why you are taking it.

I have replied to this actually: We would add 15 to 25% on top of your requested amount. This would result in a 80 to 87% revshare if you look at it this way. The calculations show that the default on-top percentage should be more around the 20/25%, and 15% would be the best we can offer to partners generating more transactions than average.

The cut would be taken for (in the first version of the product):
- letting you have customers pay for your contents/services directly with their credit card, from any device
- avoiding you to have to register as a merchant and pay $500 to $1000 upfront costs in order to process payments (which you have to pay if you want to process payments with Epoch for example)
- protecting you from chargebacks
- it would be really easy and convenient to use, integrate into your website etc.
- support, if you are having any trouble using the service, receiving a payout etc. - but we could not arbitrate transactions for contents that were not delivered by our site: we'd simply protect you from Chargebacks in case it arrives -
- adult-friendly: i.e. can be used on an adult site without any issue

If GiftRocket can go as low as 7% per $100 and cut a profit, that tells me that the PSP they use likely takes about 5ish% (maybe less, maybe more)... even giving you the benefit of the doubt that the one they use is on the low-end and the service you choose takes... let's say 10%... you're still taking 5-15% of our commission for reasons you either can't or won't justify.

As soon as you take an adult PSP, the prices skyrocket because it's considered "high risk".

Giftrocket is likely to pay somewhere around 2-3% to a PSP from processing payments. Adult PSPs are more around the 8-10% as you mentioned (with flat fees of $0,30/0,40 per transaction).
CCBill and Epoch are starting at 15% and hardly going under 10% for example.

Also when working with percentages, please take care not to assimilate the ones "added on-top" with the ones "removed from total". Adding 25% fees on top of your requested amount, so for example billing $125 to your customer to give you $100 results in a 80% revenue share - not 75%. It makes quite a difference where there starts to be a few different percentages combining.

Here is the list costs directly related to a transaction (without the servers running, salaries etc.). For this example, I consider a model wanting to receive $10 using our service which adds 20% on-top. I leave VAT out.

- In total the customer has to pay $12.

- Chargebacks: whenever it occurs we receive a fine of $40, let's say it's about 1% chance occurring per transaction.
--> On average, chargebacks costs us $0,40 per transaction (1% * $40)

- PSP: the PSP charges us a flat fee + a variable fee. In adult, good numbers to go with are $0,40 per transaction + 10%. The variable fee is taken from the total, the fees are due even in case of chargeback.
--> The transaction would cost us $0,40 (flat fee) + $1,2 (variable fee) so $1,6 in total.

So eventually, the customer pays $12, we give $10 to the model, $0,40 goes to chargeback "insurance policy", $1,6 to the PSP. Which leaves us with $0 margin.

Now of course, if the model wanted to receive $50, the customer would have to pay $60 and we'd make a margin because of flat costs being diluted. With the numbers above, we'd get $3,2 margin which is about 5% of $60.

Once we start aggregating many transactions, the PSP would offer us a discount, and we hope for a variable fee more around 7%. Hence why we could offer up to 15% on-top processing fee.

You're not bringing us customers, you're not bringing us services we don't already have, you're telling us to do all the "hard parts" of your job that you don't really feel like doing - you just want a reason to make a profit.

To take @Dani Picas example, she has a personal website http://www.danipicas.com/ and there's no payment processing on it. It is the case with many personal websites of many performers. So it's not a service they already have easily accessible.

It's possible DaniPicas, and other performers having personal websites, does not want to process payments on her site. What's your take on it DaniPicas?

It's also likely that for many of them the problem is that it is not easily accessible to them because: content is adult, many payment processing companies don't work with that, engaging with a PSP takes time and it would cost $1000 to start getting payments.

All of this, we want to remove it: that's what I call convenience. You sign up to our product, upload legal documents, and you start generating payment pages: either on the fly to send an URL to a customer, or to integrate them into your website. In that case we give you the code to copy and paste, where and how to do it. And if you're having any problem, we'll help you getting it done.

The second part of this business would be content delivery indeed, so that basically, to stick to the example of DaniPicas website: let say she wants to open a video section at the top and sell them.

She would have to drag and drop to our service all the videos she wants to propose in this section. For each video, she would decide the price & put the title. She could also choose cover image, if there is a preview related to it etc.

From there we'd generate automatically a bunch of lines of code that she would simply have to copy and paste in her site in order to get a Video section running. Whenever a customer clicks on the button "Purchase" below a video, he'd be displayed our payment form and a link for download would be sent to him after completion.

If DaniPicas has a customer contacting her via message to set up an 20 min long cam show which she is up to make in case she gets $100 out of it, then she could use our service - directly from her mobile - to:
1) Enter $300
2) Enter "20 min Skype camshow"
3) Send the generated URL to her customer.

4) He clicks on it, see the payment page, $120 to be paid if we add 20% on top
5) Right after completion, we let her know, boom payment processed.

Of course, she could decide to use Giftrocket instead, and ask the customer to send her a Giftrocket to danipicas@gmail.com for the amount of $120 (or less). He would have to be from the US, he may need to signup or extra details about how the transaction is gonna work out etc.

But if she gets it done this way, she would make $111 instead of $100. No problem, we cannot compete with that (except if we are so convenient that she'd rather use us anyway).

See value in that?

 

[Dani Picas]

@Gerald75 Send me a PM

And regarding the rest of your message.

I like the idea of a personalised URL. It would be SO much easier to send to a guy than say go here, click that, choose this ladeda. Guys don´t use their big head when buying porn all that often! The simpler the better.

I don´t have a paymet processer because it was just too much work for me, it´s expensive, I don´t want to deal with chargebacks and living in Colombia, not ony is it EXTREMELY difficult to legalise my money and get a bank to accept my ´obscene´ choice of work, payment processers don´t like dealing with Colombian banks. THe only local one doesn´t like adult work. And people prefer using known processers (like ccbill).

 

[DeezNA]

@Gerald75 - Sorry, I tried really hard to be nice and understand whatever perspective you have here, but you seem way too far gone.

The reality is that if you had a plan like you say you do... you would have a product by now; this isn't exactly the most complex idea in the world - you're linking a form to a PSP and siphoning off money. For some reason you think you deserve as much of a cut as the PSP is getting... you aren't even doing a fraction of the work (if any, in most cases) and don't have the infrastructure they already set up.

What do you have?

- letting you have customers pay for your contents/services directly with their credit card, from any device Currently available, don't really see the point - people who will wait for a custom to be made aren't ordering from a fucking coffee shop.
- avoiding you to have to register as a merchant and pay $500 to $1000 upfront costs in order to process payments (which you have to pay if you want to process payments with Epoch for example) Currently available, just don't register directly with a merchant - work with CCBill or Epoch, they only take 10-15% rather than 15-25%. See, Gerald, as a model, you have to invest money before you start making it...
- protecting you from chargebacks Available with all reputable services. Along with customer service.
- it would be really easy and convenient to use, integrate into your website etc. We still have to pay for hosting/data fees for your product and our content... and transfer it ourselves... and pay you... but at least it's easy to install!
- support, if you are having any trouble using the service, receiving a payout etc. - but we could not arbitrate transactions for contents that were not delivered by our site: we'd simply protect you from Chargebacks in case it arrives - Chargebacks and refunds/scams are often different things and your intervention is solely under your discretion. You have been telling us, verbatim, to deal with our own problems and you will "reward" us. You have been stubbornly avoiding doing any kind of support or taking security responsibility, now it's one of your selling points?!
- adult-friendly: i.e. can be used on an adult site without any issue. Already available and I would fucking hope it's adult-friendly, this isn't a selling point, it's a legal requirement.

You don't have coding done, you don't have a PSP lined up to actually build the business model around. You don't even have a solid plan on where you are going with this, god knows if you even have the capital to start this little project in the first place, I sure as hell am getting the vibe that you don't want to spend it since you're penny-pinching before you have even spent a dime... So far you have presented nothing but questions and excuses, nothing tangible. You want us to see value? Create some. We - the people who would be using your product - are telling you what we want and you are telling us we are wrong. How fucked is that?

Worse than all that, you're falsely representing our opinions and feedback to you on other forums? After the time and energy we put into trying to help you... and you want us to trust you to broker all our off-site transactions?! Good lord, dude...

If I billed you for my time on this forum, you'd be buried right now... so please don't slap the rest of us who contributed honest feedback for free in the face by offering consulting commissions to other models directly in front of us. A professional would probably have taken respect into account here.

Also I'm not a "net-pimp" wannabe, adult industry just appears to be an easier business in some regards: many talented people refuse to work in it due to morals / not having to tell their friends & family etc. So opportunities are more numerous.

This speaks volumes. "Easier business", "talented people refuse to work in it". The simple logic in your statement is contradictory: if it were an easier industry... more people would be working in it... Looking past the fact that you just essentially called us talent-less... just because a job is viewed as "easier" or "less competitive" (which, I promise you, it's not) than other fields doesn't mean the same level of professionalism isn't expected of you.

Maybe show a little respect towards your potential business partners and you might get some in return. Food for thought.

 

[Gerald75]

Hello everyone,

@Dani Picas Done and thanks for the input. Epoch can only set merchant accounts for EU and US but I believe CCBill could process payments for your site (and they deal with Chargebacks). Is it the $500 / $1000 upfront costs which refrains you from doing so?

@DeezNA I believe if I can let someone like Dani Picas use her personal for selling contents easily, without it being "too much work", I deserve a cut for it yes. She does not have payment processing on her site because of a convenience issue, as you can see in her testimony.

Also I would like to remind that this thread has been started to try and get sample of custom video requests. Nothing else. It deviated toward more global product / business discussions, which I really find great. And I do thank you for that. I am afraid tho that given the very informal start of this conversation, I was not - and I am still not - as prepared as you would expect.

You want to know very specific things, I understand, but I do not know about many of the specifics yet myself. This is as transparent as I can be: I am sharing ideas, process, calculations, my real name. I am trying not to oversell anything, not to make any promises and so forth. Maybe that's not the way of being a good salesman / business representative, but I find it quite transparent / honest.

avoiding you to have to register as a merchant and pay $500 to $1000 upfront costs in order to process payments (which you have to pay if you want to process payments with Epoch for example) Currently available, just don't register directly with a merchant - work with CCBill or Epoch, they only take 10-15% rather than 15-25%. See, Gerald, as a model, you have to invest money before you start making it...

You never register with a merchant, you register with a PSP / bank and they either set you up a direct merchant account - your own - or get you some "space" in an aggregated merchant account.

In the case of CCBill and Epoch, you do have to pay $1000 (US) or $500 (EU) upfront costs. From Epoch FAQ: To open an account with us you are required to accept Visa and MasterCard. The initial fee and annual renewal is $500 for merchants in the EU and $1000 for merchants in the US. You will pay this fee during the contract initiation and we then pay the card associations on your behalf.

Same applies to CCBill. Also adding adding 20% on top of model's requested account is the same as taking a 16,5% cut. So the base cut would not be so much higher than the 15% cut from Epoch, you need to process > $5000 to get a lower cut from Epoch. Then it is... 14,75%, so really they are taking 15% not 10-15%.

it would be really easy and convenient to use, integrate into your website etc. We still have to pay for hosting/data fees for your product and our content... and transfer it ourselves... and pay you... but at least it's easy to install!

Actually as I mentioned before, we will build content hosting & delivery. But as I said, I'd like focusing on payment only first because if our payment solution does not have value without content hosting & delivery, then we designed a poor payment product...

Content hosting & delivery will be entirely free to use, and from the platform you will be able to send custom URLs leading your customer to a payment form which unlocks the content once completed. You will also be able to position buttons on your personal sites which does the same: redirect to a payment form, and then deliver purchased content.

You have been telling us, verbatim, to deal with our own problems and you will "reward" us. You have been stubbornly avoiding doing any kind of support or taking security responsibility, now it's one of your selling points?!

Let's take some perspective there. You asked me what I had in mind, and I said I would like to empower model into making the customer support themselves when a customer proceeds to a chargeback on a transaction for which we did not deliver the content, if the model wants, and for a reward. I have this idea, because I do not see how we can provide quality support on a dispute when we have so little information. When we deliver the content it's a different story.

You do not like this idea, I get it. But really this is just an idea.

adult-friendly: i.e. can be used on an adult site without any issue. Already available and I would fucking hope it's adult-friendly, this isn't a selling point, it's a legal requirement.

Not sure what you mean, many payment solutions cannot be used by adult performers. This one could be, so it is a selling point.

You don't have coding done, you don't have a PSP lined up to actually build the business model around. You don't even have a solid plan on where you are going with this, god knows if you even have the capital to start this little project in the first place, I sure as hell am getting the vibe that you don't want to spend it since you're penny-pinching before you have even spent a dime...

As I said at the beginning of the post, this was not the goal of the original thread. You cannot have a PSP lined before having the product built, and yes you are right no coding is done yet. We start having a quite solid plan though, and its partly thanks to the feedback I got here. We've got money, nothing big, but we've got the skills - which is what usually cost a lot in software development.

Running servers represent a good infrastructure for the beginning is a couple hundred bucks a month, you need a thousand bucks to get a merchant account, a few more thousands to incorporate a company and get some lawyer advices. Then some thousands for getting the proper tools etc. the rest is just transpiration, we will not be able to spend big money on marketing (hence why we cannot bring traffic at first). We've got around 20K € as starting capital, so that's enough up to a point.

So far you have presented nothing but questions and excuses, nothing tangible. You want us to see value? Create some. We - the people who would be using your product - are telling you what we want and you are telling us we are wrong. How fucked is that?

Yes you are right, now is the time we need to build. I have presented ideas too, and arguments showing value for certain cases. It does not look like pertaining to your case though.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." How fucked is that?

Worse than all that, you're falsely representing our opinions and feedback to you on other forums? After the time and energy we put into trying to help you... and you want us to trust you to broker all our off-site transactions?! Good lord, dude...

You are being crazy there. I posted the quote above. I just said I took feedbacks from ACF which changed my perspective, which is true. I did not say anything else.

If I billed you for my time on this forum, you'd be buried right now... so please don't slap the rest of us who contributed honest feedback for free in the face by offering consulting commissions to other models directly in front of us. A professional would probably have taken respect into account here.

I have proposed publicly, into this thread, to offer money for specific information. Right at the beginning. This is not a proposition only for for Dani Picas, it is an open proposition for anyone who has generated an high number of sales on Customs4U, have a personal site without payment processing etc.

She has generated 132 sales on C4U, which places her in the top 10% sellers of the site. There are about 2500 performers on C4U, representing ~80000 sales in total since the product exist, so she represents about 0,2% of the business they've made up to now.

Bianca Baker which talked great length about C4U, actually made 1 sale on it. According to their site.


You know DeezNA, I really do value the feedbacks of models here. And I really do find it interesting to engage, I may not be good at presenting myself / representing our project there but I am most definitely not the dishonest person you are now painting. I hope you'll see it, and others too, on the long-term as I'll keep being active here and soliciting model feedbacks.

Have a great day,
Gérald Billoir

 

[DeezNA]

@Gerald75 - Wow.

Way to toot your own horn, comparing yourself to Henry fucking Ford. You are trying to recreate Customs4U, Clips4Sale, ManyVids, MyGirlFund, ExtraLunchMoney, integrated services on MFC/CB/SM. IWantClips, KinkBomb... do I really need to go on? Not to mention... we can just fucking doing it ourselves, which you are basically proposing we do with "your service"... but pay you for it. You're not re-inventing the wheel here - these services already exist by people who understand the rudimentary business concept of spending money before making money. And also just having a precise idea of what the fuck they want to build before building it.

Henry Ford already walked in the door and set up shop here, you're a little more like... let's say Saab.

If you want to ignore my input and that of other models on the site and not compensate us for the time we gave you... and never asked for payment on... that's a direct mirror of how you are choosing to run your service. You can continue to beat me into the ground by degrading my "value to you" all you want, but all it really shows is what your true character is. (P.S. if my thoughts mean so little to you... why did they make you completely reshape your business model? Hmm...)

You can throw out the statistics of other models in public to reinforce how little value I have all you want (which is kinda... using them as a weapon... which is rude and off-putting), but all that really amounts to is alienation. You have absolutely no way of tracking how many sales I, or many of my peers, have made through personal content sales since we did them the way you are proposing... by ourselves. So please, feel free to keep throwing numbers my way - dig yourself a deeper hole.


I could take all day and give you a detailed rundown of how fucking hypocritical and just flat-out disrespectful you are being in most of your responses, but it really comes down to the fact that only three people have actually voluntarily publicly talked to you on this entire forum (to the point where you are trying to bribe people for information). One model gave you feedback and, very intelligently, left. One model you are now essentially paying off. The other is myself, who gave you massive amounts of insight and now you are essentially telling to go fuck himself. So much for business ethics, right?

But, you of course are the reincarnation of Henry Goddamn Motherfucking Ford, so you are obviously a prophetic mogul of industry. Which, if you really take more than a nanosecond to think about it, begs the question.... why are you looking for help? You're Henry Goddamn Motherfucking Ford. Go invent a car. Stop dicking around here asking us to design it for you since you are opting to ignore or fight any feedback we give you.


In closing... I'll keep it simple.

You know DeezNA, I really do value the feedbacks of models here.

Prove it.

 

[Gerald75]

@DeezNA I'm not comparing myself to Henry Ford.. this is just to make the point that you cannot listen fully to feedback. And I have been listening to feedbacks. About chargebacks, about the form being nice only in a high traffic venue and so on.

I'm afraid everything I say now, you'll just interpret it in a negative way because as of now you do not esteem me anymore. This is fine. I have not been degrading you though, and have mentioned several times valuing your feedback - including for reshaping the business model as you mentioned.

I think you made a tremendous amount of sense in quite a few posts. Since I got you pissed I do not really understand where you are going though: I'm not throwing out models' statistics in public: those are public statistics! Displayed by the site! I cannot know how many direct sales you made indeed, but well I have to rely on what I can know.

I'm most definitely not telling you to go fuck yourself. I'm telling you I disagree with some arguments you make. I'm being as honest as I can be: I say what I think, and why I think it. You dislike my way of seeing things, well sorry for you, but that does not make me hypocritical.

I do not think you are making so much sense anymore though: how can one put those 2 sentences in the same post?!

You can continue to beat me into the ground by degrading my "value to you" all you want, but all it really shows is what your true character is. (P.S. if my thoughts mean so little to you... why did they make you completely reshape your business model? Hmm...)

Stop dicking around here asking us to design it for you since you are opting to ignore or fight any feedback we give you.

Contradictory, no?

↑
You know DeezNA, I really do value the feedbacks of models here.
Prove it.

Yes. It will take some time though, some weeks before we release something.

 

[CharlotteLace]

She has generated 132 sales on C4U, which places her in the top 10% sellers of the site. There are about 2500 performers on C4U, representing ~80000 sales in total since the product exist, so she represents about 0,2% of the business they've made up to now.

Bianca Baker which talked great length about C4U, actually made 1 sale on it. According to their site.

Yeah, seconding that it's pretty fucked up to publicly post sales amounts of various models. Not to mention, you're looking at ONE site out of numerous content sites. I know @msbiancabaker is a fucking beast on Clips4Sale and kills it on content, so you're shooting yourself in the foot prioritizing whose advice you take.

 

[Gerald75]

Hello @CharlotteLace why do you think in this way regarding number of sales? I mean, I am not disclosing information: this is information which is posted on each model page on C4U?

I have no doubt msbiancabaker makes great sales, she would not have been in the business for years otherwise. But since we are not building a clip store, don't you think I should prioritize feedback from models generating many sales on sites which we see as competitors?

 

[CharlotteLace]

Hello @CharlotteLace why do you think in this way regarding number of sales? I mean, I am not disclosing information: this is information which is posted on each model page on C4U?

I have no doubt msbiancabaker makes great sales, she would not have been in the business for years otherwise. But since we are not building a clip store, don't you think I should prioritize feedback from models generating many sales on sites which we see as competitors?

For one, you never know where you can get good advice that might help you. Any model in the industry might have insight you didn't consider. Secondly, your focus is on models selling custom content. Many girls who use clips4sale do quite a lot of custom videos and process their payment through them. You're doing yourself a disservice if you think Customs4U is your only competitor.

 

[Gerald75]

@CharlotteLace thanks for detailing, I see what you mean now. I agree that great insights can come from anyone, even outside of the industry. By the way, @msbiancabaker totally convinced me that we should pay for chargebacks

In regards to customs4u, they are just one competitor and I would really like to talk with some "power users" of it. Indeed I would love to talk with power users of clips4sale too, it's a much much bigger site.

I thought Clips4sale does not let one process payments for custom videos actually? This is what bianca mentioned in one of her replies?

 

[BiancaBaker]

Hello @CharlotteLace why do you think in this way regarding number of sales? I mean, I am not disclosing information: this is information which is posted on each model page on C4U?

I have no doubt msbiancabaker makes great sales, she would not have been in the business for years otherwise. But since we are not building a clip store, don't you think I should prioritize feedback from models generating many sales on sites which we see as competitors?

Yes posting numbers is NOT going to get you points around here > first of all they do NOT count tributes into this equation > most guys don't like to fill out the long thing they have when they can just tribute me and then send me the script. Normally people email me first with what they want and we work out the details C4U is JUST a payment processor- the one guy who ordered one where I get the number 1 sale is because he was from the site and did not message me first. Your wrong if you think C4U is your only competitor. Also I only use C4U if a customer is not in the US > otherwise I use Giftrocket since I get 100 percent. There are also other ways to get 100 percent or a better percent than what you were initially offering.

Also Yes Clips4sale doesnt have a payment processor for customs > BUT girls do take Tributes as well (this is what Charlotte was talking about) and take the cut since c4s is a very reputable site.

Your competitors would be more like : CMD, KinkBomb, Paypal (I highly advize against using paypal but girls do do it) C4U and I believe Manyvids has a place where you can accept customs as well.

 

[DeezNA]

Dude, you really need to brush up on your definitions/terminology if you're getting into this line of work. Every time I see the generic use or misuse of the term "chargeback", I visibly cringe.

If only there were people around here that could give you like... 2 pages of help with insight to the business side of the industry...


But sorry, I'm not a "power-user", so I guess my input doesn't mean jack-fucking-shit. I'll show myself out.

 

[Gerald75]

Yes posting numbers is NOT going to get you points around here > first of all they do NOT count tributes into this equation > most guys don't like to fill out the long thing they have when they can just tribute me and then send me the script.

Ok sorry about that, I will not do it again. Thanks for letting me know that tributes are not part of it.

 

[Gerald75]

But sorry, I'm not a "power-user", so I guess my input doesn't mean jack-fucking-shit. I'll show myself out.

Hey DeezNA, I have totally changed my initial business idea greatly due to your feedbacks. You said it yourself, I say it. Enough for the "I do not value your input". I did value it, and I still do. Please.