RANT! Our message is NOT a contradiction.

[LunaHellsing]

I want to start off with saying this in no way gender hate. This is an argument I had with my boyfriend, and I wanted to vent, and see what others felt about his viewpoint.

So to start off, we talked about Nicki Minaj, and how I love her because she just doesn't give a flying fuck. She's a strong woman, that expresses her sexuality, and sends a message that you still need to respect women, even if they are sexual. That you can do whatever you want, and still deserve respect.

Of course, as a camgirl myself, I agree with her message. The BF, absolutely doesn't.
I have to say, I was a little shocked and hurt instantly (that could be the anxiety, though), because how could my BF date a camgirl, and not support this message!?

He says, "I'm not saying she doesn't deserve respect, and I'm not saying that porn stars and such don't deserve respect. I'm just saying that if they want to send this message, they shouldn't be doing porn, and acting this way, because it contradicts their message; and it's perpetuating, if not encouraging the behavior they're speaking out against."

To be fair, I CAN understand why most would think it's a contradiction.
A camgirl demanding to be treated as a human, and not objectified 24/7, when it's practically her JOB to be a "piece of meat" (god I hate saying that..)

Does that mean that when off camera, that we deserve for people to continue to berate us, and demand sexual favors, when we're not even working!?

I am a HUMAN. My work does NOT define who I am as a person.

And I believe their message isn't contradicting, because that's the whole point of their message; that they can be a sex worker, say whatever they want, do whatever they want, and NOT be seen as subhuman for what they do.
You do NOT have to be some scholarly, always covered woman, in order to send a message.

I CAN BE A CAMGIRL AND STILL WANT MEN TO TREAT ME WITH RESPECT!

It's NOT a contradiction, and I WILL continue to fight for myself, and others.

 

[SMuser69]

Um for those of us in the generation gap. Could you possibly explain what's Nicki Minaj's message that's being misunderstood in the first place?

Is Nicki Minaj a pornstar? I thought she was a singer.

Who is 'Our' in your thread title?

 

[LunaHellsing]

Um for those of us in the generation gap. Could you possibly explain what's Nicki Minaj's message that's being misunderstood in the first place?

Is Nicki Minaj a pornstar? I thought she was a singer.

Who is 'Our' in your thread title?

Oh yes! Sorry!
Nicki is a singer, she usually dresses in a manor of exposing her curves, and some of her songs talk about sexually explicit content.
Her message is that women like herself, deserve to be treated with respect and not seen as only a sex object. That she can sing what she wants, and these other women can be who they want, without deserving objectification, and without being treated as subhuman.

And "our", is myself, and other people who spread this message.

 

[SMuser69]

If she's using sexuality as part of her 'branding' why isn't the consumer allowed to associate sexuality with her?

If I was a sports athlete that talks about health, is it wrong for the consumer to view my body as example of healthy?

I don't see where a contradiction is taking place. It's not disrespect for someone to have sexual desire for someone that's talking about sexual desire.

What is an example of this disrespect?

I understand this is a rant so you don't need to answer any of this.

 

[LunaHellsing]

If she's using sexuality as part of her 'branding' why isn't the consumer allowed to associate sexuality with her?

If I was a sports athlete that talks about health, is it wrong for the consumer to view my body as example of healthy?

I don't see where a contradiction is taking place. It's not disrespect for someone to have sexual desire for someone that's talking about sexual desire.

What is an example of this disrespect?

I understand this is a rant so you don't need to answer any of this.

Oh you can be sexualized, that isn't the problem. It's being seen as a sex object 100% of the time, and being seen as nothing more that's the problem.
I don't mind while I'm streaming for people to sexualize me, I enjoy it in that moment.

But I am a human with thoughts and feelings, and some of these people will only see me as a sack of meat because I expose my body. When I am much more than that!

I have no problem answering questions, I like the conversation!

 

[CharlieCharma]

If she's using sexuality as part of her 'branding' why isn't the consumer allowed to associate sexuality with her?

If I was a sports athlete that talks about health, is it wrong for the consumer to view my body as example of healthy?

I don't see where a contradiction is taking place. It's not disrespect for someone to have sexual desire for someone that's talking about sexual desire.

What is an example of this disrespect?

I understand this is a rant so you don't need to answer any of this.

In my opinion, sexualizing someone isn't a problem. You can see someone as sexy and such and still see them as a person. The problem arises when someone's opinions and what they stand for are swept under a rug because of her sexuality.

 

[heybarkeep]

I respect her as an artist even if her message is often at odds with her behavior. Her verse on Monster is easily the best of the song. She also doesn't consider herself a feminist, which is sadly respectable these days. However, the same message has been around long before she was even born and will continue to fall on deaf ears. Best to just not worry how others see or think of you.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

So to start off, we talked about Nicki Minaj, and how I love her because she just doesn't give a flying fuck. She's a strong woman, that expresses her sexuality, and sends a message that you still need to respect women, even if they are sexual. That you can do whatever you want, and still deserve respect.

I respect women, heck people, even when they really don't deserve it. So, the point is moot to me.

However, let me toss a couple of ideas out there...

- "You can do whatever you want, and still deserve respect".
-- What's your thoughts on Trump? Do you respect him for what he's doing? Or, does this only apply to women?


- If a singer, actor, etc. cries fowl of obejctification, yet uses it to make movies, songs, videos, isn't that hypocritical?

- Gangsta rappers promote sex, violence, drug use, "kill the pigs" mentality. This permeates to inner city children, young adults, etc. Yet, there's the "whoa is me" mentality about police brutality, profiling, crime and so forth. Isn't this hypocracy and contradiction?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

A camgirl demanding to be treated as a human, and not objectified 24/7, when it's practically her JOB to be a "piece of meat" (god I hate saying that..)

Does that mean that when off camera, that we deserve for people to continue to berate us, and demand sexual favors, when we're not even working!?
...
I CAN BE A CAMGIRL AND STILL WANT MEN TO TREAT ME WITH RESPECT!

Oh you can be sexualized, that isn't the problem. It's being seen as a sex object 100% of the time, and being seen as nothing more that's the problem.

Who isn't treating you as a human? Who is berating you and demanding sexual favors when you are not at work? Who sees you as nothing more than a sex object 100% of the time? Who is not treating you with respect?

I WILL continue to fight for myself, and others.

You gonna go make a tumblr?

 

[SMuser69]

Oh you can be sexualized, that isn't the problem. It's being seen as a sex object 100% of the time, and being seen as nothing more that's the problem.
I don't mind while I'm streaming for people to sexualize me, I enjoy it in that moment.

But I am a human with thoughts and feelings, and some of these people will only see me as a sack of meat because I expose my body. When I am much more than that!

I have no problem answering questions, I like the conversation!

I guess my new question is do you feel people are disrespectful to the real you or the persona you use on the cam sites?

My favorite model on SM is a 26 year old party girl that is late some days to work because of hard parties and sexual adventures. People enjoy hear the hot stories from the night before and her ravenous sexual appetite. There's no surprise members only focus is getting off with her and doing incredibly illicit things with her body.

That said after 5 years of working with her I also know the real person. The 32 year old mom that is late because of lack of parking or having to take her son to school because the father had to work early. That can spend days talking about her kid and how proud she is of him. I see pictures of her running around without makeup being a soccer mom complaining about how to get all the groceries into the house.

She is BOTH these people. There's nothing sexual about the real her but there doesn't need to be because that's not what she needs to be in her real life. That said if a member were to describe what taboo things he would do with her while she's in her persona she'd invite and encourage it.

The 'Rock' and Dwayne Johnson and also like this. The 'rock' is a tough guy ready to fight for what he believes and Dwayne Johnson is a family man that isn't ashamed to rock a fanny pack on vacations.

Anyway my question is which are part of you do you feel is disrespected? The sexualized camgirl persona you created or whatever sort of person you are in real life?

 

[JoleneBrody]

Again, as I've mentioned before... sexuality being separated from humanity. Just doesn't make sense logically but is socially the norm. Slowly it seems to be changing but it's absolutely a cultural thing, so it takes time.

Anyone who separates your sexuality from your humanity has no real understanding of sexuality in the first place. Which is sad

 

[Lucid1]

Oh you can be sexualized, that isn't the problem. It's being seen as a sex object 100% of the time, and being seen as nothing more that's the problem.
I don't mind while I'm streaming for people to sexualize me, I enjoy it in that moment.

But I am a human with thoughts and feelings, and some of these people will only see me as a sack of meat because I expose my body. When I am much more than that!

I have no problem answering questions, I like the conversation!

I have to point out here that your message is a bit contradictory. I bold texted what I consider to be the contradictory statements - let me explain why:

As a consumer, I am only exposed to what is presented to me, and in the case of Nicki Minaj, the only exposure I have to her is from watching her music videos and various media/news clips about her where she is 100% of the time sexualizing herself in the public eye. But, I don't think men like being shoehorned into the position of being the bad guys who "sexualize" her, because their exposure to her is driven and limited by what she, and the media outlets supply.

The second bold text is contradictory because you don't identify who is doing the sexualizing outside of your on-cam streaming. If I am in your room, then I am there to sexualize you - in your own words. I am there to enjoy whatever it is that you are providing, and at the end of the day that is my entire interaction with you. Yes, I know there is a living, breathing human being attached to whatever you and Ms. Minaj are providing, but as a consumer the only details I know about either of you comes from the information provided directly by either of you.

 

[Guy]

Oh you can be sexualized, that isn't the problem. It's being seen as a sex object 100% of the time, and being seen as nothing more that's the problem.
I don't mind while I'm streaming for people to sexualize me, I enjoy it in that moment.

But I am a human with thoughts and feelings, and some of these people will only see me as a sack of meat because I expose my body. When I am much more than that!

I have no problem answering questions, I like the conversation!

What do you think of this video?

 

[LunaHellsing]

Again, I do NOT think sexualizing someone is the problem.

It's when you ONLY see that person as a sexual object and not anything else that it becomes a problem.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Again, I do NOT think sexualizing someone is the problem.

It's when you ONLY see that person as a sexual object and not anything else that it becomes a problem.

Who does this?

 

[heybarkeep]

You gonna go make a tumblr?

 

[yummybrownfox]

Hi, Luna! I agree with your original post. I had no idea that Nicki Minaj had a message about that, but that's awesome that she said that. Kudos to her.

Oh yes! Sorry!
Nicki is a singer.

I don't listen to the radio anymore, and wouldn't even be able to name one of Nicki Minaj's songs if you asked me to. All I know is that she's a popular, very attractive female rapper (who's even been compared to female rapper Lil' Kim...hmmmm) who's known for having a big booty, and who often has rumors flying around about her having "beef" with a fellow female rapper (I think the latest alleged beef is between her and Remy Ma?). Some of this stuff shows up on my Facebook timeline. Lmao.

Sometimes I see articles describing celebrities as a "singer/rapper," or "rap singers," and I"m just like whoa, whoa, whoa...what? Wyclef (of The Fugees) was a rapper who tried to sing, but should've just stuck to rapping. Lol. Now Lauryn Hill is definitely a singer/rapper. Talented lady right there. Now if only she could stop showing up hours late for her concerts, and pissing off her fans...

 

[Teagan]

Let's think about it like this. It may help some wrap their heads around it better.

When JK Rowling tweets or writes about say politics, she often gets told to shut up, stay in her corner, stick to writing about Harry P, and so on. The same for many actors, actresses, models. etc. We've all seen people say the past year that they should shut up and keep their trap shut. People are basically told they aren't allowed to be multi faceted. This happens often with camgirls who do anything besides something sexy. Both online and in real life from people who know what we do for a living. Let's not pretend others don't judge people in many ways and then use those judgement to cast off their opinions, feelings, or anything else they say. People look at a blonde and think she's dumb so they don't take her seriously for instance. This shit is prevalent. People judge jobs, sex, gender, race, religion, etc. Anything they can pick on and grasp too, they will. But it's wrong to do and it's not contradictory to speak about.

So knowing that and applying it to Nicki works the same way. She can use her own body, be sexy, but that gives no one a right to objectify her at all times or tell her to stay in her lane. Keep in mind objectifying means degrading them. We're talking about seeing someone ONLY as a sex object. It's different than seeing someone as just sexy. Of course you can think someone is sexy, the line should be drawn though at actual objectification of them as nothing more. Brushing them off fully is an issue. Nicki should be allowed to to behave sexy and talk about sex and sexualize herself, but that gives no one a right to actually objectify her as nothing more ever. I think some people don't know the actual definition of objectification here and really should learn it.


About Trump. Is he deserving of respect? That depends. respect is not automatically given. People earn it IMHO. He has not earned my respect so he does not have it from me. For some that of course would be different. They enjoy what he's doing so he may have earned it from them. This isn't a woman vs men thing. I simply reserve who I respect for those who have actually earned it in my eyes. I do not objectify him though because no one should be degraded still. The same though applies to Nicki and everyone else on this planet. You have to decide that stuff for yourself so it's not a yes or no clear cut answer for everyone.

For the singer/actor question there's got to be context involved. How are they degrading themselves and why? Are they bringing light to a subject matter for instance? That's not hypocritical to me at all.

On the gangster rappers it's not like they pop out of the womb the way they are. They are writing about their own experiences about the brutality, violence, drugs, profiling, etc. It's how they grew up. Should they ignore that and rap about rainbows and ignore those issues? I don't think so. It brings light to injustices and their life. Their very real life. Why should anyone have to hide that? They are also taking advantage of a system they didn't create by glorifying a lot of things such as sex. It sells and gets them out of that life. Why not do that if you could? Who wouldn't? (I'm gonna get stereotypical here but I mean no offense obviously.) Say your options are living in those projects around violence, drugs, gangs only, or you can write and rap about it all and get out for the safety of you and your family. Who is seriously going to say no to that? No one. It's not contradictory to take advantage of a system and a box people put you in long before you were born I don't feel. For may it's an only option because of that profiling and self fulfilling prophecy. There's nothing hypocritical about wanting to better your life.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Keep in mind objectifying means degrading them. We're talking about seeing someone ONLY as a sex object. It's different than seeing someone as just sexy. Of course you can think someone is sexy, the line should be drawn though at actual objectification of them as nothing more. Brushing them off fully is an issue. Nicki should be allowed to to behave sexy and talk about sex and sexualize herself, but that gives no one a right to actually objectify her as nothing more ever.

So who is doing these terrible things to poor Nicki Minaj? And will this affect her estimated $70 million dollar net worth?

Is simply not giving a shit about her one way or the other allowed? That is to say, being neither a fan of her music or whatever sexual antics she is renowned for, is it permissible for me to consider her a tawdry tabloid figure who doesn't even rise to the level of potential sexual objectification candidate?

 

[Teagan]

So who is doing these terrible things to poor Nicki Minaj? And will this affect her estimated $70 million dollar net worth?

Is simply not giving a shit about her one way or the other allowed? That is to say, being neither a fan of her music or whatever sexual antics she is renowned for, is it permissible for me to consider her a tawdry tabloid figure who doesn't even rise to the level of potential sexual objectification candidate?

A lot of people. A simple glance into a comment section or her twitter would tell you this. It's the same place everyone else gets hate or shit said to them as always. I can't speak on her personal life and who may do it because I don't fucking know her obviously.

Yeah you can not give a shit about her. Duh. I don't. I don't know her music but because of TV I know who she is and what she's about. Just not my personal music choice though. The rest of what you said though just proves the point of this thread. You don't have to like her, you don't have to find her sexy, you don't have to be attracted to her, but you still should NOT objectify someone. She is not doing shit to be degraded by you.

 

[AudriTwo]

I just stopped giving a fuck. I can't make anyone respect me. I am also unable to make anyone not look down me because of my choice of profession. I respect myself and love myself. That's all what really matters end of the day to me.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

Being a femdomme instead of vanilla made me feel better about cam work in general and less like a piece of meat.. It comes with the industry, you have to be smiley and positive all the time to the men leering at you. Wankers(literally) happen everyday. And you won't change that, men are comfortably themselves online and it's an enviroment where they are usually horny.

 

[heybarkeep]

So who is doing these terrible things to poor Nicki Minaj?

Mostly just Remy Ma haha. For supposedly sleeping her way to success and not being able to do so until she bought a new ass. Also for having a child rapist as a brother. Biting rhymes too I guess. Think Jay-Z vs Nas but with less talent and more social media stupidity involved. Most agree that Remy is a better lyricist but the numbers don't lie and they are clearly in favor of Minaj. Just a stupid rap beef that only really benefited Ma by bringing her mainstream attention. She just won the BET Best Female Rapper Award, ending the seven year reign of Minaj. As expected, she shit on Minaj during her acceptance speech.

 

[Zoomer]

Reminds me of Emma Watson - who is someone championing feminism and fighting for equal treatment of women, promoting literacy amongst the young and especially books from female writers... Yet when she was photographed for a magazine showing a lot of cleavage, she got called a hypocrite?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39177510

The very act of her choosing to pose for such a picture (not forced into doing it), and having the freedom to choose what she does, or doesn't, show... is by very definition being empowered with choice. Yes, men may also fap to the image - so what? Doesn't demean her choice, doesn't degrade her stance, doesn't render her work so far to be "hypocritical"; if anything, it defined it stronger.

If she wanted to flash her tits after campaigning for feminism, then if she's choosing to do that - it literally defines the equality of choice. It's how we, the public, react to that which belies our own belief and intolerance.

I think "sex" work is just a taboo and some will struggle to see that it doesn't make you a bad person, a "wrong 'un". As long as the person is true to themselves and has self respect then they're fine.
How people view it is more indicative of their inability to adjust, be empathetic, or considerate of others. Can't expect everyone to instantly be as liberal or open on their viewpoint, what you can hope is that they'll re-evaluate, reconsider, and consider their beliefs/opinions in the face of challenges to them from the likes of yourself.

So yeah, you may disagree and may be upset by his opinion - but I'd say give it time and see if you can gently persuade him to consider an alternative viewpoint...

Hmm, I've drank too much wine. Kinda forgot what this was about - hope this was relevant/made sense.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

A lot of people. A simple glance into a comment section or her twitter would tell you this. It's the same place everyone else gets hate or shit said to them as always. I can't speak on her personal life and who may do it because I don't fucking know her obviously.

Yeah you can not give a shit about her. Duh. I don't. I don't know her music but because of TV I know who she is and what she's about. Just not my personal music choice though. The rest of what you said though just proves the point of this thread. You don't have to like her, you don't have to find her sexy, you don't have to be attracted to her, but you still should NOT objectify someone. She is not doing shit to be degraded by you.

This is going to come off sounding pretty pedantic. But why is ok for you to tell people how to behave "you should NOT objective someone", but not ok for others to tell Nicki Minaj to behave (add me to the list of folks who are only vaguely aware of her existence)?

Either we have the right to express our opinions about others behavior or we don't.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Nicki Minaj sends a message? I thought she just portrayed herself as a sex object with a brat fetish: Personally she always seemed quite insecure sexually, not a good example.

On your rant about respecting those who express their sexuality freely, I'd agree with that. If someone says something unrelated to sex but has a way of including their sexuality/ sexual expression within it I see it as no less valid than without. I might find it manipulative, but no less so than someone talented with language or humour.

 

[Gen]

Nicki Minaj sends a message? I thought she just portrayed herself as a sex object with a brat fetish: Personally she always seemed quite insecure sexually, not a good example.

On your rant about respecting those who express their sexuality freely, I'd agree with that. If someone says something unrelated to sex but has a way of including their sexuality/ sexual expression within it I see it as no less valid than without. I might find it manipulative, but no less so than someone talented with language or humour.

Nicki has spoken for years about the importance of education, encouraging her fans (especially the girls) to stay in school and work hard. She recently paid a bunch of fans student loans and school fees. She has other causes she works on as well, but I know she's been talking about education since before I started university because I've always found it quite inspiring. She is a great example of people seeing one facet of her and assuming that's all there is to it.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

Nicki has spoken for years about the importance of education, encouraging her fans (especially the girls) to stay in school and work hard. She recently paid a bunch of fans student loans and school fees. She has other causes she works on as well, but I know she's been talking about education since before I started university because I've always found it quite inspiring. She is a great example of people seeing one facet of her and assuming that's all there is to it.

To be fair, that's how they market her. Blame the Pop industry.
Most people don't care for hidden depths, that requires effort and why do that when you can dance along/fap. Anything that gets in the way of consumption(such as political opinions) hurts the product.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

A lot of people. A simple glance into a comment section or her twitter would tell you this. It's the same place everyone else gets hate or shit said to them as always. I can't speak on her personal life and who may do it because I don't fucking know her obviously.

Sounds like if we outlaw comment sections and abolish twitter, that ought to take care of most of the problem then, no? I mean if words are such a serious matter...

Wouldn't want to see anything like this popping up on there:
“You a stupid ho, you a, you a stupid ho
Yeah, you a stupid ho, you a, you a stupid ho" ~ Nicki Minaj


That would be terribly degrading, wouldn't it now?

Yeah you can not give a shit about her. Duh. I don't. I don't know her music but because of TV I know who she is and what she's about. Just not my personal music choice though. The rest of what you said though just proves the point of this thread. You don't have to like her, you don't have to find her sexy, you don't have to be attracted to her, but you still should NOT objectify someone. She is not doing shit to be degraded by you.

I don't have to like her.
I don't have to find her sexy.
I don't have to be attracted to her.
And if I want to objectify her in my mind to the point that every time something comes out of her mouth, I see nothing more than hot air burping out the other end of a very noisy pussy, I will. That is my right as an individual. If you see that in and of itself as degrading, that is your problem.

I would probably do it out of spite in retaliation for all this objectification lunacy that is all the rage now, but it is just not worth the effort to me.

She can use her own body, be sexy, but that gives no one a right to objectify her at all times or tell her to stay in her lane. Keep in mind objectifying means degrading them. We're talking about seeing someone ONLY as a sex object.

A lot of people. A simple glance into a comment section or her twitter would tell you this. It's the same place everyone else gets hate or shit said to them as always.

Reminds me of Emma Watson - who is someone championing feminism and fighting for equal treatment of women, promoting literacy amongst the young and especially books from female writers... Yet when she was photographed for a magazine showing a lot of cleavage, she got called a hypocrite?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39177510

She didn't get called a hypocrite.

She got called a hypocrite by radio personality Julia Hartley-Brewer. Then Cherry Wilson wrote a click-bait article about it for the click-bait BBC, which gave a bunch of feminists an opportunity to weigh in. Not one person was reported as saying "Emma Watson? Meh... fuck her", which is precisely the stupid mentality that makes things like Vanity Fair successful in the first place.

This is going to come off sounding pretty pedantic. But why is ok for you to tell people how to behave "you should NOT objective someone", but not ok for others to tell Nicki Minaj to behave (add me to the list of folks who are only vaguely aware of her existence)?

Either we have the right to express our opinions about others behavior or we don't.

Indoctrination.

Go try to convince a Fundamental Christian they aren't really seeing evidence of Satan everywhere they look. Then listen to the "objectification" crowd set aside common sense regarding comment sections and twitter feeds. Compare...

 

[Bocefish]

I love her because she just doesn't give a flying fuck. She's a strong woman, that expresses her sexuality, and sends a message that you still need to respect women, even if they are sexual. That you can do whatever you want, and still deserve respect.

Keep on believing that and see how well it works for you