~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you think)

[GemmaMarie]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

Wellll... I'm not usually politically correct. It is never my intention to offend someone & so if I am in the presence of someone who doesn't like for me to use certain words, I try hard not too. But the thing with politically correctness is that it's been taken Way to far IMO. The meaning of words often changes, especially in common "slang" words. I get it. In the past these words held a negative connotation. But we aren't living in the past, & I've never heard someone I know saying "gay" in a negative way, & most 'gay' people I know are wise enough to know what someone actually means when they say 'gay'. Of course this is just one word that comes to mind, there are lots of others. IMO, people today are far too sensitive to some things, to the point where it reaches past common sense.

I will teach my children to be respectful & that to some people, some word, have negative connotations. & I will teach them why. I'll also teach them that a word is not inherently bad and to choose theirs carefully, thoughtfully, and respectfully. But at that same time, not to cater to special groups just because they fear that they will offend. *gah* I feel in a way that I'm not presenting my case clear enough. But the gist is that, times change, people change, ideas change, & to remain stuck in what things used to mean isn't going to benefit anyone. Does it benefit the man down the street to believe that women can do nothing but cook & clean? No. Does it benefit groups to continue believing that words have a special power over them? No. Political Correctness is a facade IMO to benefit extremists. Should we, as a people, strive to not offend others, to censor ourselves in a manner that allows for mutual social comfort? Yes. But that's not what political correctness tries to do. It doesn't teach manners, or politeness, it only aims to teach censorship. We can't keep stifling people like this and expecting growth and results. I know it's just "a word", but it's the lazy way to go about things, IMO.

 

[Aella]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I grew up in a home where homosexuals were referred to hatefully as 'faggots' who were going to hell, where people of different religions were treated like people with low IQs.

I've ended up with one foot in homosexuality myself, completely nonreligious, and even dating a non-white male. So having been on both sides of it, having truly believed two completely separate views, I'd like to say political correctness is a load of horseshit.

I love making jokes at the expense of what I was and what I am, and I understand and embrace when people from my old life make jokes about what I am now. I'd be embarrassed at myself if I were so sensitive that I'd take offense at that stuff.

So yeah. I say politically incorrect shit constantly. Censoring what you say in order to preserve the feelings of a group of people is a sacrifice of the dignity of your thoughts. And getting offended by what other people say is a demonstration of the weakness of your thoughts.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I am not sure what the red Kool-Aid reference is to.

Okay, you PMed me this exact same message (the longer version that I intentionally did not quote). I don't understand why you PMed me this AND posted it here...what's the big secret? I didn't quote the entire thing, because I didn't read the whole thing. I thought it was obvious by my cute little Kool-Aid remark that I'm not interested in joining this oh-so-serious discussion. My joke was in response to what you had said about the dude saying "you just came here for the fried chicken." LOL.

The red Kool-Aid thing was a harmless joke among Black people about how we love red Kool-Aid...it's as simple as that. What's funny about it is that red isn't a flavor...it's a color. The flavor would be Cherry. Black comedians have even joked about it in their stand-up acts on the show ComicView.

It's that simple.

 

[bud9752]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

"policitally correct"
is a form of speech that most POLITICIANS and PUBLIC (CELEBRITY) FIGURES
use so as not to offend the fragile idealism's of the far too many
groups of individuals who want everyone to be exactly like them
or EVERYONE is WRONG.
Most PUBLIC personas comply with this action so as not to damage
their EARNING power in the choice of work they have chosen.
No matter what your opinion or views, YOU WILL NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE,
someone will always call you a .............................. fill in the blank yourself

 

[LadyLuna]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

"policitally correct"
is a form of speech that most POLITICIANS and PUBLIC (CELEBRITY) FIGURES
use so as not to offend the fragile idealism's of the far too many
groups of individuals who want everyone to be exactly like them
or EVERYONE is WRONG.
Most PUBLIC personas comply with this action so as not to damage
their EARNING power in the choice of work they have chosen.
No matter what your opinion or views, YOU WILL NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE,
someone will always call you a .............................. fill in the blank yourself

Agreed, and the part in bold is why it's a giant joke to everyone with other forms of employment.

 

[JordanBlack]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

Politically Correct was put in place mainly as a guideline on how to make a public speech by politicians/ media/ celebrities etc - people that could influence the masses, without instigating to hatred.

People copy other people, they like to find inspiration into celebrities, they love their TV. If they see/ hear someone on national television preaching that all illegal immigrants should be locked up or all Muslims should be deported because they don't accept Jesus, or even the plain old racial insults, they will think it's socially acceptable for them as well to have such a behavior.

No one is gonna arrest you for being a racist cunt for sure, extremist groups are present in every country still...and I'll give an example that was tried in the court: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_S ... _of_Skokie. This happened in USA, obviously the Court decided in that case that Free Speech trumps any right of that Jewish community to not be remembered about the horror of the Holocaust. Now this is a case where being Politically Correct should've been applied, but I see people being attacked and called out as racist on the mere fact they disagree with Israel policies concerning Palestinians - which in my opinion is wrong.

One other thing, I've been traveling a lot and meeting a lot of people from different countries of different creeds, races etc. You won't hear a gypsy/pikey calling himself a Roma, they are proud to call themselves gypsies and they actually laugh at you if you're trying to address them with the "political correct" term with "roma people".

Again, Political Correct is a guideline and even if it's meant as "the good way of behaving in society", it can backlash easily.

 

[Brad]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

PC=racism in a pretty dress
:-x


:twocents-02cents:

 

[LadyLuna]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

Honestly, I can see never using nigger unless you're a black person talking to your friends from the hood. Or a camgirl who has been requested to do a private using that (which I am comfortable doing, only because they asked for it.) That's one term that doesn't need to be used. But I never understood the whole "black" being bad thing. Sure, night is scary. Sure, blackness is used to describe evil lots of times. So maybe we should use brown? No one has a problem with brown, after all, wood is brown and everyone loves wood floors and wooden furniture. And chocolate is brown. mmm chocolate. And brownies, and trees, and chipmunks... But as someone who is mildly interested in art, and who is a giant geek, black is a good thing, so...

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

Honestly, I can see never using nigger unless you're a black person talking to your friends from the hood. Or a camgirl who has been requested to do a private using that (which I am comfortable doing, only because they asked for it.) That's one term that doesn't need to be used. But I never understood the whole "black" being bad thing. Sure, night is scary. Sure, blackness is used to describe evil lots of times. So maybe we should use brown? No one has a problem with brown, after all, wood is brown and everyone loves wood floors and wooden furniture. And chocolate is brown. mmm chocolate. And brownies, and trees, and chipmunks... But as someone who is mildly interested in art, and who is a giant geek, black is a good thing, so...

I'm really not too concerned with using the most fashionable term for a group at any given time. The only words I try to avoid and would like others to avoid are the ones that are associated with hatred (and if they have other usages that are not hateful, those usages are fine with me). "Black," to my knowledge, has never been a slur, so I see no problem with using it. While I realize it's become commonplace to use "gay" to mean something is bad without really meaning anything about homosexuals, I don't use it that way because it seems to me it picked up that meaning because people considered being homosexual a bad thing. Others may draw the line somewhere else, but that's essentially my logic in what I choose to say or avoid saying.

 

[Nordling]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I think a good rule of thumb is to call people what they want to be called, both their personal name and any group they be a member of.

Seriously, when someone born William wants to be called Bill, why do some people insist on their "formal" name? And the opposite. If he prefers William, don't call him Bill. This isn't excessive "political correctness," it's simple courtesy, and doesn't harm anyone.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I just wanted to correct something that was said in this thread a couple of times. The Black people who use the 'n' word as a term of endearment don't call each other 'n!gger'...they say 'n!gga'.

 

[lordmagellan]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I just wanted to correct something that was said in this thread a couple of times. The Black people who use the 'n' word as a term of endearment don't call each other 'n!gger'...they say 'n!gga'.

This is also an argument I've heard by many white people when they get called out for using that term. Frankly, it's bullshit. By this argument most of Boston says the same thing. as well as any place wherein the local dialect consists of using a soft, often unpronounced 'R'.
If you're making the argument that saying "nigga" as opposed to "nigger" is simply speaking in ebonics, then no one should get angry when other people of a different race speaks in the same language. But clearly, they do, and always when this particular word is used. So, you have to decide- are the two words different? or are they the same?

 

[Brad]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I just wanted to correct something that was said in this thread a couple of times. The Black people who use the 'n' word as a term of endearment don't call each other 'n!gger'...they say 'n!gga'.

It's somewhat an era thing too. I am 48 and I do actually remember when it was used (in the same context of endearment) with the "er" rather then the more modern "a". I would never use either term myself but that's because I'm not black. Now I do call one of my friends a "dirty Jew" but that's because we are both Jews. If we were both black then I would probably call him the n word instead.
:lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

This is also an argument I've heard by many white people when they get called out for using that term. Frankly, it's bullshit. By this argument most of Boston says the same thing. as well as any place wherein the local dialect consists of using a soft, often unpronounced 'R'.
If you're making the argument that saying "nigga" as opposed to "nigger" is simply speaking in ebonics, then no one should get angry when other people of a different race speaks in the same language. But clearly, they do, and always when this particular word is used. So, you have to decide- are the two words different? or are they the same?

Before you get your underwear in a twist, I wasn't "making an argument" about anything. I was simply correcting a few people in this thread who keep saying that Black people call each other "nigger" (they don't say 'nigger'...they say 'nigga'). I didn't say anything about whether or not it's right that they do it. If it bothers you that they say it, then you should ask them why they do it.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

This is also an argument I've heard by many white people when they get called out for using that term. Frankly, it's bullshit. By this argument most of Boston says the same thing. as well as any place wherein the local dialect consists of using a soft, often unpronounced 'R'.
If you're making the argument that saying "nigga" as opposed to "nigger" is simply speaking in ebonics, then no one should get angry when other people of a different race speaks in the same language. But clearly, they do, and always when this particular word is used. So, you have to decide- are the two words different? or are they the same?

Before you get your underwear in a twist, I wasn't "making an argument" about anything. I was simply correcting a few people in this thread who keep saying that Black people call each other "nigger" (they don't say 'nigger'...they say 'nigga'). I didn't say anything about whether or not it's right that they do it. If it bothers you that they say it, then you should ask them why they do it.

You are probably correct nigga is lot more common than nigger, although the difference between a long a and er are tough to distinguish especially in a noisy room.

 

[lordmagellan]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

This is also an argument I've heard by many white people when they get called out for using that term. Frankly, it's bullshit. By this argument most of Boston says the same thing. as well as any place wherein the local dialect consists of using a soft, often unpronounced 'R'.
If you're making the argument that saying "nigga" as opposed to "nigger" is simply speaking in ebonics, then no one should get angry when other people of a different race speaks in the same language. But clearly, they do, and always when this particular word is used. So, you have to decide- are the two words different? or are they the same?

Before you get your underwear in a twist, I wasn't "making an argument" about anything. I was simply correcting a few people in this thread who keep saying that Black people call each other "nigger" (they don't say 'nigger'...they say 'nigga'). I didn't say anything about whether or not it's right that they do it. If it bothers you that they say it, then you should ask them why they do it.

First, I consider underwear to be a waste of time and resources.

Second, by "correcting" someone in which word they attribute to another, you are proposing an argument that they are wrong. If you aren't making this suggestion, then I have to ask why you bothered making the post. There are really only a couple of ways to look at nigga/nigger: either it's simply a difference in pronunciation (in which, they are the same word and therefore you've nothing to correct), or they are two different words with different meanings (which goes back to my original argument of someone speaking the same language).

Third, I could honestly give less than a shit about what people say. I do like to hold them accountable for it. And for them to understand that everyone has the same rights with regards to speech.

Fourth, your response reads to me as though you felt I was launching a personal attack toward you. I wasn't. I imagine my use of the word "you" could lead you to this train of thought. I was replying to you but I was also using the collective "you," meaning a hypothetical person. I probably should have used the term "one."

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

You are probably correct nigga is lot more common than nigger.

Yes, it is correct.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

First, I consider underwear to be a waste of time and resources.

Boxers? Or are you free-balling it like Kramer? If you've never watched Seinfeld, then nevermind.

Second, by "correcting" someone in which word they attribute to another, you are proposing an argument that they are wrong.

Yes, "correcting" someone usually means they are wrong...that's how it works.

I could honestly give less than a shit about what people say. I do like to hold them accountable for it.

Wonderful. Let me know how that goes the next time you have the "Why do YOU say 'nigga', but I can't say it?" conversation with a Black person. I'm curious myself what the response will be.

 

[lordmagellan]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

Next time you wanna rant about something that you supposedly "don't give a shit about," don't quote me and put words in my mouth, saying "frankly, that is bullshit."

I'm sorry, what? What words have I placed in your mouth?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I'm sorry, what? What words have I placed in your mouth?

All that stuff you posted, following your "Frankly, that is bullshit" remark. Feel free to scroll up and read it yourself. I'm not playing the "Huh? Show me where I did that?" game with you.

 

[lordmagellan]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

I'm sorry, what? What words have I placed in your mouth?

All that stuff you posted, following your "Frankly, that is bullshit" remark. Feel free to scroll up and read it yourself. I'm not playing the "Huh? Show me where I did that!" game with you.

Let me try this again:
Fourth, your response reads to me as though you felt I was launching a personal attack toward you. I wasn't. I imagine my use of the word "you" could lead you to this train of thought. I was replying to you but I was also using the collective "you," meaning a hypothetical person. I probably should have used the term "one."

No words were put anywhere except on a screen.

 

[Nordling]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

To answer the question. Yes, the two words are different. And nowhere is anyone talking about Bostonian accents--very bad example. I'm sorry it hurts some people that certain words may be reserved for use by the ethnicity they apply to, but it's not exactly unique, and I have no sympathy for people who whine about it.

Simple courtesy at the lowest possible level says that people not use slurs no matter how they're pronounced if they don't apply to one's own ethnicity. I don't see where that's a major hardship.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

Fourth, your response reads to me as though you felt I was launching a personal attack toward you. I wasn't. I imagine my use of the word "you" could lead you to this train of thought. I was replying to you but I was also using the collective "you," meaning a hypothetical person. I probably should have used the term "one."

No words were put anywhere except on a screen.

Fair enough. It seemed like you misunderstood my post and thought I was trying to make excuses for something other people say. It makes sense to me that the word gets beeped out on the radio...not exactly a song lyric I'd like my 9-year old to be singing in the shower. I've already overheard him singing "What the hell..." in the shower the other day.

 

[lordmagellan]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

To answer the question. Yes, the two words are different. And nowhere is anyone talking about Bostonian accents--very bad example. I'm sorry it hurts some people that certain words may be reserved for use by the ethnicity they apply to, but it's not exactly unique, and I have no sympathy for people who whine about it.

Simple courtesy at the lowest possible level says that people not use slurs no matter how they're pronounced if they don't apply to one's own ethnicity. I don't see where that's a major hardship.

No one is whining about anything. Look anywhere in the media and all signs point to this being a serious topic that warrants examination.

Further, my argument isn't about that one particular word, thought that is what spawned it. My argument is about replacing the word, with something incredibly similar (more likely a mispronunciation or dialect) and then saying, "Wait no! You can't say that either!" Or in the case of this particular word, "You're racist." And this is the only case of a word being reserved for a specific ethnicity that I know about. If you have others, toss them my way, I'd like to read about them.

With regards to accents, I think you're wrong. And I gave my reason.

 

[Nordling]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

To answer the question. Yes, the two words are different. And nowhere is anyone talking about Bostonian accents--very bad example. I'm sorry it hurts some people that certain words may be reserved for use by the ethnicity they apply to, but it's not exactly unique, and I have no sympathy for people who whine about it.

Simple courtesy at the lowest possible level says that people not use slurs no matter how they're pronounced if they don't apply to one's own ethnicity. I don't see where that's a major hardship.

No one is whining about anything. Look anywhere in the media and all signs point to this being a serious topic that warrants examination.

Further, my argument isn't about that one particular word, thought that is what spawned it. My argument is about replacing the word, with something incredibly similar (more likely a mispronunciation or dialect) and then saying, "Wait no! You can't say that either!" Or in the case of this particular word, "You're racist." And this is the only case of a word being reserved for a specific ethnicity that I know about. If you have others, toss them my way, I'd like to read about them.

With regards to accents, I think you're wrong. And I gave my reason.

I don't think the discussion has anything to do with Boston...and how many (white people for the most part) talk there.

As far as I'm concerned, all ethnic slurs are reserved... I don't know if you remember the flap that occurred when Jesse Jackson referred to a certain part of NYC as "hymieville." So it works in all directions. I personally think the whole question is so obvious that it doesn't warrant a bunch of new discussion...especially on this sort of forum. I'm comfortable not using slurs and if people whom slurs refer to wish to OWN those words and attempt to move them into non-slurs, it's fine by me. Obviously, it's not a process that works overnight.

 

[lordmagellan]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

And just to lighten things a bit:

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

when Jesse Jackson referred to a certain part of NYC as "hymieville."

'Hymieville'? Or did you mean to say 'homieville'?

 

[Nordling]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

when Jesse Jackson referred to a certain part of NYC as "hymieville."

'Hymieville'? Or did you mean to say 'homieville'?

lol "Hymie" is a slur that refers to Jewish people. He was implying, in what I want to assume was a brain fart, that that part of town was being "overrun by Jewish people."

 

[southsamurai]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

other words that are used as a term of bonding between ethnicities:
beaner, kike, bitch, wop,(wop is a huuuge one for gettin people pissed off if you use it wrong) dago, shylock and the aforementioned hymie. thats just a list off the top of my head.

warning: toward the end of this piece i will actually use the words in full for the effect of denoting what the difference is.i apologize in advance for this, but i feel it necessary to properly explain why there is a difference at all.

but lets swing back to the difference between the "ER" and "A" ending version of the n word.
the "er" version originally was not an insult or slur. it was originally just a word used to describe anyone with very dark skin in comparison to the european planters and slave owners. even they did not use it with hatred and anger at that time. the word wasnt loaded with connotation yet.
it took decades into a century or so for that to happen. the condescension and arrogance of the slave owners toward the people they "owned" became the underlying context of the word. since the slave owners viewed their charges (most of them anyway, the enlightened slave owner was so rare as to be mythical) as less then human, as no different than a dog or horse.

worse they became swamped in the idea that these owned persons were inferior in every way. thus when slavery was outlawed and the anger from the change swept america it began a slow turn into a slur rather than a generic term (noted as an insult as early as 1840). the new generic term became negro around the early 1900s, which slowly shifted to colored by the 50s and 60s or so. it wasnt until the 80s that it shifted again to black and began the move toward african american.

during the civil rights movement language became a tool for change and freedom. the tail end of the 70s showed a new way of thought among and about african americans. there was a chance finally to look into the past take claim of the horrors of colonial slavery. by taking an interest in and ownership of this heritage, (which as far as i can tell is pretty unique across the world) americans whose ancestors came from africa turned a very bad thing into a group touchstone. black folk in the states could always look at one another and know that all of their recent ancestors shared a common event and understand each other through that.

that group awareness bled into more than the efforts for civil equality. it entered the realms of music and literature. it was the music that really brought about the dichotomy of the two forms of the n word. when rap started up in the late 70s it was started by young men (and a handful of women) from inner city, usually poor populations. now by this point the word was being used as a term of bonding already, but now the rest of the world started to hear it in that usage. and yes, part of that was indeed the regional dialect. hip-hop really started in new york as a cultural trend and the accent and dialect of african americans in that area was different from other local dialects. (the same could be said of italian and irish ethicities around there as well). it was there that the "A" ending became the friendly pronunciation. it took a while for the spelling aspect to become used as well, but not even a full decade really. NWA came big in the 80s and their spelling was with an a not an er.

by that point richard pryor had done full on 20 and 30 minute riffs on the word and its usage, eddie murphy came not long after and did the same thing. so across the board modern media brought the change into permanence. by the 90s everyone i knew here in the traditionally backwards south knew that there was a difference, and that white folk should steer clear of either one unless invited to use them by their black friends and relatives (more common in the south than people realize i think)
so the two words became separate. "nigger" became a word of hatred and insult, even among most black folk, while "niggah", or "nigga" is a new word related to the other in history and etymology, but with a completely fresh meaning.
it is NOT just a different pronunciation of the same word anymore.while there is still some question as to whether or not it is acceptable for anyone not of african descent to use the new word, we can pretty much accept it as a new change in language that will not go away.

so, if the discussion is going to be had about the usage of either word it should be done with an awareness that language shifts over time. it is not something that can be undone, prevented or complained about too much. it is just the way humans work.

some useful links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/504
http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/numbe ... out-n-word
http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_even ... ef-history

on a personal note. this posting is the first time that i have written either word in full ever that i can remember. doing so made me feel slightly dirty and wrong. i feel that i had to to make the point effectively, but in my generation, in my area, us crackers just dont go there. hell, even amongst close friends my circle doesnt use the friendly version verbally very often (and then only to other white folk.. weird huh?).

i can distinctly remember the first time i was ever told "mike, you are my n***a". after the wave of confusion and frission passed from the newness of the experience i got hit with the beauty of it. nothing that had ever passed before in the terms of language made me feel so respected. i had always moved through my neighborhood and town with love for the black community here, but i had always felt separate from it, marked out as different because i was a pale pasty sort of fella. that one word had the power to make me feel like a whole person and not just "that white guy".

and that feeling, that experience, is a part of why i understand how the word is important. how using it is such a thing of strength and unity. do i know what it is like to be black? hell no. the cultural and emotional gap is still there. about the only group that can claim to really truly get it is maybe the hebrews. but do i understand the power and beauty of reclaiming a word once used with hated and venom? hell yes.
so that is why white folk need to take a big step back and accept that black folk get to choose how the word is used and defined and spelled.

one final note of disclaimer since i got called out on it once: no, not all slave owners were white. there was a very very small percentage that we free blacks. and not all slaves came from africa. a goodly number were native american or carrib islanders early on. but the cultural experience of slavery is different for black folk than it is for the other groups, so i still hew to the european/african lines of slavery when referring to it.

 

[bud9752]

Re: ~Politically Correct~ (what's it mean & what do you thin

JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT

IF YOU WONT ACCEPT BEING CALLED SOMETHING BY EVERYONE
DON'T ACCEPT BEING CALLED THAT SAME SOMETHING BY ANYONE

"FRIENDS" INCLUDE