Perception and its Relationship to Reality

[camstory]

Perception and its Relationship to Reality. More specifically our perception of others and how close those perceptions come to a true understanding of others.

Perception is said to be our individual understanding of those things which we come in contact with, and is a cognitive construct of our senses, in part. Perception depends on complex functions of the nervous system, but is shaped to some extent by our previous experiences, knowledge, and expectations.

Well, if our expectations are bias by our needs and desires, - if they are built in part on our wants, are our perceptions of others skewed by who we would have them be, or who we want them to be?

Personally, I have to wonder, if when someone fails to be what I had perceived them to be, if it is not my poor perception do to my expectations of what I wanted the person to be, rather than any true deviation from reality, or who they truly are, on their part? I feel like maybe that question is something like saying, water is the essence of wetness, but it does not seem that clear to me.

I think I may be more pron than some, to constructing these perceptions of others that are often not very clear understands of reality, so I consciously try to examine my perceptions, and negate my wanton expectations as best i can. Though, because this processing of perception happens outside conscious awareness, it is not always so easy to do.

And, it occurred to me that this same process of building unrealistic perceptions, at its extreme, becomes the insanity that manifest in a Canadian man stalking a stranger in Ireland, or a Turkish man stalking a poor British woman, unfortunate enough to have a pretty smile and a kind disposition. Or the actions of a MFC user that we most surely have all witnessed?

The complexity of what drives a stalker is beyond my understanding, but in a simple sense I think a skewed perception of the world in general, and of the victim in specific, could be said to be the cause. Or is that to big a leap?

 

[Evvie]

The complexity of what drives a stalker is beyond my understanding, but in a simple sense I think a skewed perception of the world in general, and of the victim in specific, could be said to be the cause. Or is that to big a leap?

I think in some situations you are right, but also remember that ever stalker is not the same and their motives are not universal.

Some stalkers have no love or concern for their victims and only want to terrorize and hurt them as much as possible. They have no fantasies that someday they will find true love with their target.

Other stalkers might be motivated out of boredom, or they want to prove they have the technical, physical, or mental ability to stalk someone.

I'm sure some people are stalkers because they like to feel like they are criminals and getting away with something forbidden. The actual target might be inconsequential.

I don't want to say that a stalker who believes he is doing a favor for his victim is always delusional, but it does certainly seem that way. White knights who stalk models online because they want to help her improve her security, men and women who believe they have a right to watch what their exes do, slightly obsessed "average Joes" who follow you home from the cafe (but it's okay because they're "nice guys" and they just want to get your number), all these people do seem to be delusional because they believe that their violating actions are justified.

 

[FrenchKitty]

Personally, I have to wonder, if when someone fails to be what I had perceived them to be, if it is not my poor perception do to my expectations of what I wanted the person to be, rather than any true deviation from reality, or who they truly are, on their part? I feel like maybe that question is something like saying, water is the essence of wetness, but it does not seem that clear to me.

I quoted without replying lol:
i just want to take what you say to a philosophical level and ask you what your definition of reality is. I firmly believe that reality is a different thing for everyone since it is in fact a cognitive construct. There is no absolute reality, and i don't believe there IS an absolute reality outside of my own, built through my perceptions.
What you're trying to achieve is , in fact, determine if your perception of someone (your reality) matches the other person's perception of her/himself, AND at the same time the general perception of this person, the reality that is most common, in regards to this person, for the people who meet her and form an image of her/him.
Given that this person's version of her reality, the version of the people who meet her, and yours are bound to be very different, I would say that no, you can never have an "optimized version of reality" applied to someone that is alive and has his/her own cognitive processes.
In my opinion, neither can you ever have a grasp of the reality of an object since your cognitive bias would have to not exist for this to happen.
Was this your question? lol.

 

[southsamurai]

on a a quantum level, there is no set reality anyway, only infinite possibility. wasnt Hume the guy who said " reality is a bundle of perception"? or something similar anyway. we can only determine as real that which we can perceive. if our perceptions are flawed then our reality is flawed. on the other hand since no single reality is the real reality, then are flawed perceptions even flawed?

if we perceive in another person any given set of reality and they do not conform to our perception then what? more often than not you can see people bending to the perceptions of others rather than their own self perception. it takes immense amounts of focus and willpower to be something other than that which we are perceived to be. that being said a single person's perception is rarely enough to shift another's reality unless applied with determination. ( yeah i know that crosses more into thelema and metaphysics than the OP was talking, but it applies)

so what abut those stalkers mis-perceiving their object of obsession?is their perception flawed in regards to the other person? i don't think so. i think that their own self perception is flawed. its not that they dont see and feel that objective reality (if there is such a thing) says that their obsession isnt returning their focus. i believe it is more that the stalker type simply chooses to ignore their own sensory input for a more pleasant one in their definition. their eyes and ears tell them one thing, but the broken part of their mind tells them " no, dude, she's realllly into you" and shifts the incoming sensoria to fit that desire.

lying to one's self is a fairly easy thing anyway, most humans do it all the damn time. so much that they even come to believe their internal lies more than objective reality. why would it be any different in this largely imaginary world that faces us that we call the internet? a computer screen is more or less a sociopath/psychopath. it can not pick up emotions and thoughts. it cant read facial expressions or tone of voice. even with a camera and mike involved the limited depth of field and hyper focus on parts of an individual skew what our poor primal brains can process effectively. and heck, most people dont want to put themselves into another person's mind and emotions anyway, so why bother when its that much harder?

btw, i perceive that i am the high divine being and all the rest of you are my toys, so get yer kung fu grips ready lol ( yes thats a g.i joe reference in guise of an almost humorous statement)

 

[Mirra]

I don't know about this specific scenario but I've always been intrigued by how people can perceive things differently based on a multitude of different factors. I've often tried to alter my perception temporarily to understand where others are coming from though it is quite difficult because I often do not have the base knowledge and experience needed to support the point of view others take.

I love these words/phrases and how they seem almost... vaguely powerful.

Perception
Perspective
Point of View

 

[FrenchKitty]

I don't know about this specific scenario but I've always been intrigued by how people can perceive things differently based on a multitude of different factors. I've often tried to alter my perception temporarily to understand where others are coming from though it is quite difficult because I often do not have the base knowledge and experience needed to support the point of view others take.

I love these words/phrases and how they seem almost... vaguely powerful.

Perception
Perspective
Point of View

Funny how we're shifting into theory of mind, it's actually related,although it runs kind of parallel to this topic. Like a parallel cousin ^^ (yeah i'm litteral lol)
But the way we all percieve things differently doesn't have to be mysterious and romantic at all. Take your eye. You see the blue flower.You infer that everyone sees a blue flower because goddamit, look, there it is, and it's clearly blue. But what do you know about the way other people's brains translate the visual signal? What they see in their mind could very well translate into "red carrot" in yours for all you know, or even be completely meaningless .
If we can't be sure we agree on what a blue flower looks like, i don't think we can ever comprehend another person's sense of self, even if said person takes time explaining him/herself to us. They're biased/in denial about some things, you are the same, it's irreconciliable.

so what abut those stalkers mis-perceiving their object of obsession?is their perception flawed in regards to the other person? i don't think so. i think that their own self perception is flawed. its not that they dont see and feel that objective reality (if there is such a thing) says that their obsession isnt returning their focus. i believe it is more that the stalker type simply chooses to ignore their own sensory input for a more pleasant one in their definition. their eyes and ears tell them one thing, but the broken part of their mind tells them " no, dude, she's realllly into you" and shifts the incoming sensoria to fit that desire.

lying to one's self is a fairly easy thing anyway, most humans do it all the damn time. so much that they even come to believe their internal lies more than objective reality. why would it be any different in this largely imaginary world that faces us that we call the internet? a computer screen is more or less a sociopath/psychopath. it can not pick up emotions and thoughts. it cant read facial expressions or tone of voice. even with a camera and mike involved the limited depth of field and hyper focus on parts of an individual skew what our poor primal brains can process effectively. and heck, most people dont want to put themselves into another person's mind and emotions anyway, so why bother when its that much harder?

btw, i perceive that i am the high divine being and all the rest of you are my toys, so get yer kung fu grips ready lol ( yes thats a g.i joe reference in guise of an almost humorous statement)

I slightly disagree with two things there (well three, but i'll be nice ^^): firstly you used the word focus and i think that is the main issue these stalkers have : it's not that they choose to ignore what they clearly see, it's just that they focus on different things. They will focus on the tiniest thing, for instance someone told them about the "hard-to-get" technique once when they were 15, and they will focus on this, convinced that the object of their affection is trying to make them want her more by ignoring or rejecting them.
Focus is also the center of my second slight disagreement with you: sociopaths have super powers in the theory of mind department, and they can read the tiniest of your reactions, even the ones you are in denial about, and do not know that you have. That's actually what they hyperfocus on: knowing who you are behind your denial and the image you are trying to project. Like I said : only slight disagreements

 

[southsamurai]

Point of View[/quote

I slightly disagree with two things there (well three, but i'll be nice ^^): firstly you used the word focus and i think that is the main issue these stalkers have : it's not that they choose to ignore what they clearly see, it's just that they focus on different things. They will focus on the tiniest thing, for instance someone told them about the "hard-to-get" technique once when they were 15, and they will focus on this, convinced that the object of their affection is trying to make them want her more by ignoring or rejecting them.
Focus is also the center of my second slight disagreement with you: sociopaths have super powers in the theory of mind department, and they can read the tiniest of your reactions, even the ones you are in denial about, and do not know that you have. That's actually what they hyperfocus on: knowing who you are behind your denial and the image you are trying to project. Like I said : only slight disagreements [/quote]


true true. seeing your definition and view on the term i agree with you. that idea of "focus" wasn't the one i was using,( at least not that specific) but its valid and fits the subject very well. as regards sociopathy i was referring more to their inability to internalize the emotions of others than their ability to judge what the actions and thought of others may be based on reading their expressions and such. kinesics is different from true empathy, and empathy is what the abnormal brain of a socio/psychopath lacks. from what i understand that brain pattern lends itself to a powerful intellect that allows them to disguise themselves and behave in normative ways while inside themselves they see other people as little more than interesting animals that populate whatever vision of the world they have inside them. they are unable to "walk in another's shoes" and imagine what the other person feels, so their perception is inherently apart from the majority.

 

[bob]

thoughtful posts everyone :thumbleft:

seems to me the whole issue about the reality our perceptions create (be we normal everyday folks or stalkers) boils down to motivation....motivation is the confluence of those things in our past that drive us, the experience of the present that hold us, and the vision of a future that leads us.
if perception is what colors reality for each of us, motivation is the unique box of pastels each of use....stalkers and sociopaths are indeed heavy into manipulating the motivations of others with the goal of skewing perception, but it's a matter of quality, not quantity : we all do it a little bit, because our lives are the movement from confluence to confluence through time...and it almost always feels advantageous to satisfy our motivations.

which, however, is also why it's so easy to fool ourselves sometimes...and why stalkers and sociopaths can be so dangerous.

 

[camstory]

thoughtful posts everyone :thumbleft:

seems to me the whole issue about the reality our perceptions create (be we normal everyday folks or stalkers) boils down to motivation....motivation is the confluence of those things in our past that drive us, the experience of the present that hold us, and the vision of a future that leads us.
if perception is what colors reality for each of us, motivation is the unique box of pastels each of use....stalkers and sociopaths are indeed heavy into manipulating the motivations of others with the goal of skewing perception, but it's a matter of quality, not quantity : we all do it a little bit, because our lives are the movement from confluence to confluence through time...and it almost always feels advantageous to satisfy our motivations.

which, however, is also why it's so easy to fool ourselves sometimes...and why stalkers and sociopaths can be so dangerous.

This ^^^^^^ in my opinion is a beautiful piece of writing, and I agree all the post have been very thoughtful.

Though, I am very interested in what it is that causes a stalker to act irrationally, the small differences between one person and another that make for the huge difference between what is sane and what is clearly not, I started the OP with something much more simple in mind. It was early morning, and up all night I digressed somewhere in a stream of consciousness that ended with a question of stalkers which is not where I had intended the OP to go.

I had started another post in which I had wanted to ask about ppls thoughts on the relationship between Anticipation and Desire, and in thinking through that post I realized that often my perception, (or perhaps my preconceived perception) of someone through their writing, was not how I found them to be when I later had the experience of meeting them on cam. In a way it seems similar to seeing someone who you have only ever heard and the person rarely seems to fit the idea you had of them. Though it is not the same, I wonder if my preconceived perception of someone not fitting the later more informed perception of who they are, is because I have filled in the blanks with what i want them to be, in the same way i must want someone to look that I have only ever heard?

 

[southsamurai]

unique box of pastels... effin poetry dude

 

[camstory]

unique box of pastels... effin poetry dude

Yea, I used to feel this way about Poetry, but I got over it. I mean I don't hate cricket just cuz I can't do it.... I hate cricket for a host of other reasons.

 

[AmberCutie]

Saw this on reddit just now, made me think of this thread.

 

[southsamurai]

unique box of pastels... effin poetry dude

Yea, I used to feel this way about Poetry, but I got over it. I mean I don't hate cricket just cuz I can't do it.... I hate cricket for a host of other reasons.

huh? i meant it as a compliment lol. im a hack poet, but that turn of phrase was just awseome imo

 

[camstory]

unique box of pastels... effin poetry dude

Yea, I used to feel this way about Poetry, but I got over it. I mean I don't hate cricket just cuz I can't do it.... I hate cricket for a host of other reasons.

huh? i meant it as a compliment lol. im a hack poet, but that turn of phrase was just awseome imo

My apologies Sir. I reckon I got a bit perturbed when I perceived you were talking bad about Bob's lovely words. Guess I never did dislike poetry, and might even enjoy cricket if I understood it better, but the fact is I never could do poetry, that much is the gods honest truth.

 

[Jolene]

I remember someone once saying that "perception is reality". I figure for all intents and purposes you should treat it as such since once the reality goes away into the past its only our perception that lingers or matters really. I met my brothers father-in-law who didn't like our family quite so much and all his conversations reverted to figuring out how to make it seem like we were bad people. By the time he left I'm sure he had gotten what he wanted out of talking to us and I'm sure when he got back home he had great stories of the crazy stuff we said. To him, that was reality.