Oregon Shooter and 4chan

[LuckySmiles]

that's gross if that's true, and brings up an interesting and modern cultural issue and a bit of an Elephant in the room.
If someone's only, or primary form of socializing is via internet activity, couldn't it be assumed that they are or will become mentally ill? Even people with social disabilities are human beings and inherently social creatures. There's studies on the physical and mental deterioration and chemical imbalances with lack of interaction... Along the lines of what happens to a person who goes a few weeks without so much as a hug....their health with suffer.
Connecting on the internet is fun and can be helpful or even enlightening way to interact outside your local world, but not technically human interaction and can't become a primary replacement for that. Obviously I don't know if that's what happened in this case to this person to end up so far gone but when these kind of posts were going on in a message board it raises the issue.

don't get me wrong the hug button is cool and all... but you know what I mean...

 

[n_i_c_u]

If someone's only, or primary form of socializing is via internet activity, couldn't it be assumed that they are or will become mentally ill?

I don't what to think about this (nothing against you). I totally get it. I really don't go out very much...at all....and that works for me. these days. I'm so introverted that I felt the weirdest in my life (20 years ago) when I felt I had to be present at social gatherings or try to be present outside my apartment or even just to be someone important in this life. I think a big problem for me was feeling like I had to be extroverted like all my family and all those extroverts I am attracted to and want to be like. Internet message boards helped me to express myself in a way that I could think about what I wanted to say (and vocalize) as opposed to trying to work words on the spot in a social setting (to anyone, not just women). I think mentally I am ok. People at work are nicer to me when these tragedies happen because I am really quiet (the male-introvert's curse).

I don't know anything about 4chan, but I have been on a three or four message boards. It's never been worth it to take anything but the good being said to heart. When people gave me repeated hard times on those boards I left (I don't miss them). No sense in trying to fit in where you can't.

I really don't think any one really egged him on...the CSI in me says he already knew what he wanted to do.

Along the lines of what happens to a person who goes a few weeks without so much as a hug....their health with suffer.

I have to agree that Hugs are awesome! Hug anyone you are comfortable with hugging~~~~It is Awesomeness!

 

[Gen]

that's gross if that's true, and brings up an interesting and modern cultural issue and a bit of an Elephant in the room.
If someone's only, or primary form of socializing is via internet activity, couldn't it be assumed that they are or will become mentally ill? Even people with social disabilities are human beings and inherently social creatures. There's studies on the physical and mental deterioration and chemical imbalances with lack of interaction... Along the lines of what happens to a person who goes a few weeks without so much as a hug....their health with suffer.
Connecting on the internet is fun and can be helpful or even enlightening way to interact outside your local world, but not technically human interaction and can't become a primary replacement for that. Obviously I don't know if that's what happened in this case to this person to end up so far gone but when these kind of posts were going on in a message board it raises the issue.

don't get me wrong the hug button is cool and all... but you know what I mean...

Just my two cents but I think it would be more likely that someone was predisposed to mental illness that caused them to stay isolated and get all of their social interaction through the internet, than that someone was mentally healthy and then decided to just hang out on the internet all day and became mentally ill, if that makes sense. It could be kind of a chicken-and-egg situation - someone who is depressed is more likely to stay home, but staying home makes their depression worse, and it becomes a worsening cycle.

I'm not sure if we're talking specifically about guys like this shooter (who I know nothing about), or just these sort of edge lord 4chan types in general - but I think it's a pretty big assumption to assume they are only socializing online. Most people have jobs, school, etc but may still see themselves as loners or hate society like a lot of the people on these boards do. And of course, there are lots of people who spend a lot of time online, but don't wind up becoming mentally ill or doing something like this. I'd also guess it depends a lot more on the type of people/content you surround yourself with online, than necessarily just the amount of time. But I do agree that someone who had no (or little) social interaction could be more prone to developing a mental illness. Basically my thoughts are, there's a lot of factors, lol.

Also (this isn't in response to your post Lucky but just the idea of mental illness as a factor) I read an interesting paper from the American Journal of Public Health about mental illness and mass shootings - there's a summary here. Anyways two points I found interesting:
“Our research finds that across the board, the mentally ill are 60 to 120 percent more likely than the average person to be the victims of violent crime rather than the perpetrators.”
“Fewer than 5 percent of the 120,000 gun-related killings in the United States between 2001 and 2010 were perpetrated by people diagnosed with mental illness,” they write.

I know nobody here is saying "it's just a crazed lunatic doing this" or whatever (and I'm not trying to insinuate anyone is) - but I do think the media often emphasizes mental illness as if it is the most important factor into why these things happen, and that adds to stigma for people with mental illness. So I think it's important to mention if we're talking about it.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I don't know much about the shooter, I'm just reacting to the article.
I don't assume people that post the comments shown don't socialize outside of the internet, but I do assume those people, don't say the same things to other people's faces outside of the internet. I don't think everyone needs to be a party animal or anything but I do think everyone needs at least one person to connect with and do things with leisurely outside of basic responsibilities for their own sanity regardless of their personality. Seeing a movie with someone else or going for a walk with someone else is socializing, and keeps people more grounded and connected emotionally. We need other people in life to provide perspective and hold us accountable for our actions and can keep us away from being our own worst enemies. People say fucked up things like that because they don't quite view their interactions as reality, in the same respect people can't use internet groups as a crutch or replacement for living breathing friendships and interactions. I think it is safe to assume that more people are do that now, than in the past and it's something that should be addressed.

 

[EroticEevee]

This had nothing to do with what happened.

I was talking about the betas in general, since the link led to an article that had a lot of talk about the "beta uprising" and what not.

 

[Gen]

I don't know much about the shooter, I'm just reacting to the article.
I don't assume people that post the comments shown don't socialize outside of the internet, but I do assume those people, don't say the same things to other people's faces outside of the internet. I don't think everyone needs to be a party animal or anything but I do think everyone needs at least one person to connect with and do things with leisurely outside of basic responsibilities for their own sanity regardless of their personality. Seeing a movie with someone else or going for a walk with someone else is socializing, and keeps people more grounded and connected emotionally. We need other people in life to provide perspective and hold us accountable for our actions and can keep us away from being our own worst enemies. People say fucked up things like that because they don't quite view their interactions as reality, in the same respect people can't use internet groups as a crutch or replacement for living breathing friendships and interactions. I think it is safe to assume that more people are do that now, than in the past and it's something that should be addressed.

I definitely agree - I didn't think you were assuming those things (or mean to imply that I did), I was just kind of taking your topic and speculating on it!

 

[n_i_c_u]

but I do think everyone needs at least one person to connect with and do things with leisurely outside of basic responsibilities for their own sanity regardless of their personality. Seeing a movie with someone else or going for a walk with someone else is socializing, and keeps people more grounded and connected emotionally. We need other people in life to provide perspective and hold us accountable for our actions and can keep us away from being our own worst enemies. People say fucked up things like that because they don't quite view their interactions as reality, in the same respect people can't use internet groups as a crutch or replacement for living breathing friendships and interactions

There's really nothing to argue with this. I, personally think this is well said (it's true...taking walks with people is cool as all get out and message boards can break your sense of reality). I just want to say Thanks for saying more.

 

[Teagan]

Just my two cents but I think it would be more likely that someone was predisposed to mental illness that caused them to stay isolated and get all of their social interaction through the internet, than that someone was mentally healthy and then decided to just hang out on the internet all day and became mentally ill, if that makes sense. It could be kind of a chicken-and-egg situation - someone who is depressed is more likely to stay home, but staying home makes their depression worse, and it becomes a worsening cycle.

I'm not sure if we're talking specifically about guys like this shooter (who I know nothing about), or just these sort of edge lord 4chan types in general - but I think it's a pretty big assumption to assume they are only socializing online. Most people have jobs, school, etc but may still see themselves as loners or hate society like a lot of the people on these boards do. And of course, there are lots of people who spend a lot of time online, but don't wind up becoming mentally ill or doing something like this. I'd also guess it depends a lot more on the type of people/content you surround yourself with online, than necessarily just the amount of time. But I do agree that someone who had no (or little) social interaction could be more prone to developing a mental illness. Basically my thoughts are, there's a lot of factors, lol.

Also (this isn't in response to your post Lucky but just the idea of mental illness as a factor) I read an interesting paper from the American Journal of Public Health about mental illness and mass shootings - there's a summary here. Anyways two points I found interesting:
“Our research finds that across the board, the mentally ill are 60 to 120 percent more likely than the average person to be the victims of violent crime rather than the perpetrators.”
“Fewer than 5 percent of the 120,000 gun-related killings in the United States between 2001 and 2010 were perpetrated by people diagnosed with mental illness,” they write.

I know nobody here is saying "it's just a crazed lunatic doing this" or whatever (and I'm not trying to insinuate anyone is) - but I do think the media often emphasizes mental illness as if it is the most important factor into why these things happen, and that adds to stigma for people with mental illness. So I think it's important to mention if we're talking about it.

Honestly if you say to yourself "Hey I have a great idea. I'm gonna do a mass shooting!" then there is definitely something mentally wrong with you. So when these shootings do happen I do say to myself they are ill in some way. Every time. Cause in order to do something so horrific and plan it out in some way (they arent just randomly walking around with 7 guns and ammo and a flak jacket) there is definitely something up in your brain that's not "normal." They may be diagnosed or not or it may be as little as depression or anxiety to severe bi-polar but it's definitely something. We however do not get to always know why cause a lot of them kill themselves or get killed but there is for sure something going on with them that's not "right." I feel for these shooters as I feel for the victims and those left behind on both sides cause these shooters definitely needed some help they were not getting for some reason and cause of that everyone suffers. That's a sad result of our system and it's stigmas and many other things combined.

I agree though the media and others often just say mentally ill like it's the only factor and wanna leave it at that but that's probably not the case a lot of times. A lot of people suffer with issues and dont go out killing others. There is definitely more to the story and I don't think the answer is gun control alone.

 

[Cupcake_viv]

What????

That's not the 1st Amendment being distorted. Those things shouldn't be gotten rid of because the speech makes people uncomfortable.

This particular 4Chan thread was beyond MESSED UP but all of 4Chan isn't like that. This thread should have been locked as soon as it popped up but sites like 4Chan shouldn't be banned completely. And as for Red Pill, yeah it's messed up too but it's not like it's just people sitting around making hate speech. The first amendment is right to free speech. Not "free speech as long as it doesn't offend somebody".

I didn't say that they shouldn't exist. What I was trying to point out that people feel the need to hide behind the 1st amendment to justify their hate and stupidity. Also, i don't believe that these sites just offend people. These sites create and allow habitats for misogynists, racists, and the plain hateful to come together and solidify as a group. These groups then go out in the world and cause harm. Maybe the Oregon Killer never used 4chan or has ever been to reddit? But if he had we all know the threads he would associate most with.

Everyone has their right to speech, as long as it does not cause other people direct harm.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I didn't say that they shouldn't exist. What I was trying to point out that people feel the need to hide behind the 1st amendment to justify their hate and stupidity. Also, i don't believe that these sites just offend people. These sites create and allow habitats for misogynists, racists, and the plain hateful to come together and solidify as a group. These groups then go out in the world and cause harm. Maybe the Oregon Killer never used 4chan or has ever been to reddit? But if he had we all know the threads he would associate most with.

Everyone has their right to speech, as long as it does not cause other people direct harm.

That's not what our constitution says.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The nursery rhyme was right "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me".

I'd rather these people get together on the internet, where we can watch them, rather than not so good old days when the got together in bars or at the home of some sociopath.

 

[fandango]

I'd rather these people get together on the internet, where we can watch them, rather than not so good old days when the got together in bars or at the home of some sociopath.

Actually in the old days these people would most likely have never been able to find likeminded people. Maybe 1 or 2 crazies but never the hundreds that can work themselves all up into a big frenzy. Most likely they'd be alone and stuck not knowing what to do with their feelings and probably a lot less of these incedents would occcur.

 

[Sevrin]

Actually in the old days these people would most likely have never been able to find likeminded people. Maybe 1 or 2 crazies but never the hundreds that can work themselves all up into a big frenzy. Most likely they'd be alone and stuck not knowing what to do with their feelings and probably a lot less of these incedents would occcur.

Not to mention that in "the old days", people like this would not have been able to achieve instant notoriety, if not celebrity, by taking the lives of random people for kicks.

 

[LuckySmiles]

on the internet people post unfiltered thoughts that they might not even have or agree with a day later. In a friendly place like acf, people are humanized a bit in their comments due to familiarity and ability to be seen on a camera. Here people will still post harmless streams of thought that they might not repeat to another person, and might like to forget about shortly after.People do it because humanity is removed from this type of interaction, and you can't really hold people accountable for their thoughts.

Based on personal observance there seems to be a growing cultural problem somewhat unique to Americans in that many younger people seem to be emotionally and socially stunted. It's a disconnect from reality that the internet doesn't help, but isn't the sole factor in it.

I don't defend anyone that does some kind of thing like shoot up a bunch of strangers, but from a criminology standpoint it's a completely new and different profile that hasn't been seen before. The profile of a person who commits a crime like this seems to be very different from a serial killer, or hitman. It's a new type of crime and a new type of criminal.

Who knows the true motives behind it, but if it's along the lines of "I hate the world, everybody sucks, nobody gets me I'll show them" as it's often portrayed, that's a very immature and adolescent line of thinking. It's something you'd expect from a typical 14 year old before they slam their bedroom door and go sulk for a bit. Adolescence is when most people develop a sense of emotional intelligence and learn how to work themselves out but so many people seem perpetually stuck in these kind of loops.

I'd like to know what's up with america that more people seem to be lacking social and emotional unawareness and development. To me, this person seems like an extreme example of this gone horrible. But I feel like it exists on lots of levels. People will always be crazy but what are the factors in American culture specifically that has people driving themselves crazy to extreme levels at a seemingly more rapid rate?

 

[n_i_c_u]

oregonlive.com put out a list of mass shootings since 1966 (anyone over 3 or more fatalities). I'm not sure how many of those dudes are connected to the internet, but in 2015 it looks like 28 people decided to take a bad path vs. 7 in 2014 and 14 in 2013. I am no help as to what is happening in our society.

It's always said that guns don't kill people, people do. If you look at American history, most mass killings like the Lincoln County War or even the whole American Indian experience, the qualm (even when argued thru newspapers--the internet of the time) was always over some sort of beef over turf or getting revenge for a transgression involving land or resources and revenge for those things.

From what I read, Charles Whitman was the first real mass shooter documented in American history (mental illness, I think). I seem to remember a thing in history where three people were murdered during the Civil Rights movement by a group of whack jobs where mental illness wasn't a factor (that's probably not a mass murder because it was a mob of assholes as opposed to one asshole? I think, personally, it is mentally ill to kill people at, but what do I know?).

Today, we live in a kinder, more inclusive, society than ever before in life---more people than ever, but as a collective, people seem to be progressing...so this is all a messed up when stuff like this happens.