Open letter to CB support

[anpawi]

Hi,

I would like to show you the unsuccessful conversation I had with CB support after they banned a model for life time without giving any reasons and - in my opinion - without any reason.
I find the case (and apparently it is not the only one) quite intense. A model builds up an account, maybe applies to a studio, overcomes the fear of appearing in front of the camera, buys equipment and clothes. After a year she manages to build up a circle of loyal users, reaches 60k followers and a satisfaction of 100%. And then a CB employee suddenly goes: "Nope. Today I have a migraine, maybe if I ban someone it will get better".
Please @punker barbie, this model really doesn't deserve to be treated like this. I hope you can help and end the ban as soon as possible (room name via pm).
And hopefully CB will soon start to think about the fact that they make their money from human beings, who should also be treated like human beings.



*******
Me
Nov 10, 2021

Hello,
I have created like 70 personal GIFs for different models, designed a few apps and bots, as well as bio pages. I got a good insight into what models do in front of the camera and how they interact with users.
The model you banned a short time ago, XXXXXXX, is an extremely positive person who stands out from the crowd. She is always friendly to every user who is in her room. She answers all questions and if they are still so stupid or even pushy. She always answers them directly to the user in spoken English. I have never once seen her address an unfriendly or arrogant word to a user. Her private studio is also constantly being equipped with better technology and visually changed to optimize the transmission quality and make the show more interesting.
Outside of CB she also has a direct and friendly contact with users e.g. via Instagram. Here too, every message is answered in a friendly manner that is really rare elsewhere. You really have the feeling that she cares about her community in front of and behind the camera with a lot of enthusiasm.
So, in principle, she does everything right and the steadily increasing number of followers (most recently 60k) as well as an unusually high satisfaction rate of 100% over the longest time shows that she is very popular with users. Or rather: was. Because for completely incomprehensible reasons you banned her. One really wonders, not only after reading the story described here, what prompts you to take such an abstruse step.
I have seen models, where you already notice when you enter the room that you are cheated there. These are rooms that directly harm the user. And this is completely deliberate and planned. If it has annoyed me very much, I have also reported such rooms. Without CB even batting an eye. There are rooms that have been known to screw users for months without CB doing anything about it.
Since XXXXXXX is definitely not one of them, I think she made a formal mistake. But do you have to punish models so harshly for that??? I have seen CB close a stream without further ado and ban the room just because a member of the studio team briefly entered the room. It's not the model's fault! I've also seen rooms banned because the studio tried out new equipment under the model's account in her absence. This is also not the model's fault. I have also experienced the completely abstruse case that a model was banned, although she had not streamed for months. A post-mortem ban, so to speak.
You should keep in mind that these models often work in studios that offer them incredibly poor support. This starts with the non-existent support to design their bios, continues with the non-existent support in the selection of apps or the design of a menu. Certainly, they are also trained very little to avoid anything that could lead to the ban at CB. So the blame is in the fewest cases with the models, but rather with the studios to look for. So punish the studios and not the models! Why don't you introduce a kind of traffic light, in which the models are warned in advance and only excluded after several missteps. What sense does it make to ban someone from CB if they don't even know what they did wrong? And what sense does it make to not give a chance to correct that mistake?

You should also remember with this hasty punishment that these are people who depend on the money they earn. Either to finance their studies or even for their entire livelihood. Not to forget that they may have spent a lot of money to set up their studio. Nor should you forget that you are also punishing a large number of users. These are the ones who have invested a lot of work, for example in GIFs or apps or bio designs. The work was in the case of a ban for nothing! Mods who have familiarized themselves with the specifics of the room and thought about how to best support the model. Members from the fanclub, who paid their dues now for nothing. But also users who maybe bought their tokens only because of this model. Last but not least you destroy communities of users who met regularly in this room and now have no possibility to get in contact with each other.
So a ban has a very negative effect on a lot of people, people who certainly have nothing to do with the cause of the ban and are still punished.
As described, there are a lot of models on CB and especially studios that specialize in deceiving users. They should be removed from CB as soon as possible.
XXXXXXX is certainly not one of them! And I think I speak on behalf of a great many users when I urge you to reverse this ban as soon as possible.


*******

Support (Chaturbate)
Nov 11, 2021

Thank you for looking out for your fellow Chaturbaters. However we do not share personal or account information with other users. If a user is having a problem, please ask them to email support@chaturbate.com.
Thank you,
The Chaturbate Team


*******

Me
Nov 12, 2021

This is a really unsatisfactory answer to a message explaining untenable conditions in Chaturbate!
I have not asked with a single word to reveal me information about another person. Apart from that, the model and also the studio has contacted CB support several times without receiving any explanatory answer. At the moment the fact looks like she doesn't even know why she has been banned. And she is this for life-time.
This behavior of Chaturbate is not only unfair, it's also disgusting. If someone makes a mistake, they should at least be explained what that mistake is AND they should be given a chance to explain themselves and do better. To me, it looks like a Chaturbate employee who has eaten too many baked beans that day can involuntarily ban models because they just feel like it. So the real mistake that is made here is with Chaturbate, and only Chaturbate should act immediately and take back the inexplicable ban.

 

[AudriTwo]

They can't talk to you about other accounts. That's why you got that response.

I get the urge to white knight for your cambb, but it's not going to get her back online.

This is something she or her studio has to handle. If Chaturbate doesn't lift the ban, then she should move along to another site like MFC or Stripchat.

 

[CheeseMoon]

Say what you want about Chaturbate support, but if you wrote to support on behalf of a model, CB's answer shouldn't come as a surprise.
If the model's English is below par or non-existent, you could easily have written something like the above and had her send it herself

 

[ghostofsupporter]

You got the same standard Automated BOT reply many other received. So don't take it personally.

 

[bibidi10]

Hi,

I would like to show you the unsuccessful conversation I had with CB support after they banned a model for life time without giving any reasons and - in my opinion - without any reason.
I find the case (and apparently it is not the only one) quite intense. A model builds up an account, maybe applies to a studio, overcomes the fear of appearing in front of the camera, buys equipment and clothes. After a year she manages to build up a circle of loyal users, reaches 60k followers and a satisfaction of 100%. And then a CB employee suddenly goes: "Nope. Today I have a migraine, maybe if I ban someone it will get better".
Please @punker barbie, this model really doesn't deserve to be treated like this. I hope you can help and end the ban as soon as possible (room name via pm).
And hopefully CB will soon start to think about the fact that they make their money from human beings, who should also be treated like human beings.



*******
Me
Nov 10, 2021

Hello,
I have created like 70 personal GIFs for different models, designed a few apps and bots, as well as bio pages. I got a good insight into what models do in front of the camera and how they interact with users.
The model you banned a short time ago, XXXXXXX, is an extremely positive person who stands out from the crowd. She is always friendly to every user who is in her room. She answers all questions and if they are still so stupid or even pushy. She always answers them directly to the user in spoken English. I have never once seen her address an unfriendly or arrogant word to a user. Her private studio is also constantly being equipped with better technology and visually changed to optimize the transmission quality and make the show more interesting.
Outside of CB she also has a direct and friendly contact with users e.g. via Instagram. Here too, every message is answered in a friendly manner that is really rare elsewhere. You really have the feeling that she cares about her community in front of and behind the camera with a lot of enthusiasm.
So, in principle, she does everything right and the steadily increasing number of followers (most recently 60k) as well as an unusually high satisfaction rate of 100% over the longest time shows that she is very popular with users. Or rather: was. Because for completely incomprehensible reasons you banned her. One really wonders, not only after reading the story described here, what prompts you to take such an abstruse step.
I have seen models, where you already notice when you enter the room that you are cheated there. These are rooms that directly harm the user. And this is completely deliberate and planned. If it has annoyed me very much, I have also reported such rooms. Without CB even batting an eye. There are rooms that have been known to screw users for months without CB doing anything about it.
Since XXXXXXX is definitely not one of them, I think she made a formal mistake. But do you have to punish models so harshly for that??? I have seen CB close a stream without further ado and ban the room just because a member of the studio team briefly entered the room. It's not the model's fault! I've also seen rooms banned because the studio tried out new equipment under the model's account in her absence. This is also not the model's fault. I have also experienced the completely abstruse case that a model was banned, although she had not streamed for months. A post-mortem ban, so to speak.
You should keep in mind that these models often work in studios that offer them incredibly poor support. This starts with the non-existent support to design their bios, continues with the non-existent support in the selection of apps or the design of a menu. Certainly, they are also trained very little to avoid anything that could lead to the ban at CB. So the blame is in the fewest cases with the models, but rather with the studios to look for. So punish the studios and not the models! Why don't you introduce a kind of traffic light, in which the models are warned in advance and only excluded after several missteps. What sense does it make to ban someone from CB if they don't even know what they did wrong? And what sense does it make to not give a chance to correct that mistake?

You should also remember with this hasty punishment that these are people who depend on the money they earn. Either to finance their studies or even for their entire livelihood. Not to forget that they may have spent a lot of money to set up their studio. Nor should you forget that you are also punishing a large number of users. These are the ones who have invested a lot of work, for example in GIFs or apps or bio designs. The work was in the case of a ban for nothing! Mods who have familiarized themselves with the specifics of the room and thought about how to best support the model. Members from the fanclub, who paid their dues now for nothing. But also users who maybe bought their tokens only because of this model. Last but not least you destroy communities of users who met regularly in this room and now have no possibility to get in contact with each other.
So a ban has a very negative effect on a lot of people, people who certainly have nothing to do with the cause of the ban and are still punished.
As described, there are a lot of models on CB and especially studios that specialize in deceiving users. They should be removed from CB as soon as possible.
XXXXXXX is certainly not one of them! And I think I speak on behalf of a great many users when I urge you to reverse this ban as soon as possible.


*******

Support (Chaturbate)
Nov 11, 2021

Thank you for looking out for your fellow Chaturbaters. However we do not share personal or account information with other users. If a user is having a problem, please ask them to email support@chaturbate.com.
Thank you,
The Chaturbate Team


*******

Me
Nov 12, 2021

This is a really unsatisfactory answer to a message explaining untenable conditions in Chaturbate!
I have not asked with a single word to reveal me information about another person. Apart from that, the model and also the studio has contacted CB support several times without receiving any explanatory answer. At the moment the fact looks like she doesn't even know why she has been banned. And she is this for life-time.
This behavior of Chaturbate is not only unfair, it's also disgusting. If someone makes a mistake, they should at least be explained what that mistake is AND they should be given a chance to explain themselves and do better. To me, it looks like a Chaturbate employee who has eaten too many baked beans that day can involuntarily ban models because they just feel like it. So the real mistake that is made here is with Chaturbate, and only Chaturbate should act immediately and take back the inexplicable ban.

wow thats crazy.

 

[anpawi]

They can't talk to you about other accounts. That's why you got that response.

Say what you want about Chaturbate support, but if you wrote to support on behalf of a model, CB's answer shouldn't come as a surprise.

Yes, I understand that completely. But it shouldn't stop them from reconsidering the matter or discussing it with the model again.

I get the urge to white knight for your cambb, but it's not going to get her back online.

Haha, not everyone who stands up for something is a white knight I love to create graphics and to program. And it's very annoying if finally hours of work was in vain. As I said, such a ban hits not only the model itself.

This is something she or her studio has to handle.

They have tried several times.

If Chaturbate doesn't lift the ban, then she should move along to another site like MFC or Stripchat.

She did. But that's not the solution. I mean, if you see the many posts here in the forum where someone has been banned and doesn't even know why, then there must be something wrong with this system. Why not bring it up here and discuss it?

 

[Chromatica_Jay]

What is this 'formal mistake' the model made?

 

[AudriTwo]

Yes, I understand that completely. But it shouldn't stop them from reconsidering the matter or discussing it with the model again.



Haha, not everyone who stands up for something is a white knight I love to create graphics and to program. And it's very annoying if finally hours of work was in vain. As I said, such a ban hits not only the model itself.



They have tried several times.



She did. But that's not the solution. I mean, if you see the many posts here in the forum where someone has been banned and doesn't even know why, then there must be something wrong with this system. Why not bring it up here and discuss it?

You sending support vitriolic paragraphs about getting a model account unbanned is super duper white knight behavior.

The solution is she or her studio has to handle this. All you are doing is preaching to the choir, because yes, we know this is an issue. If she has already signed up with other sites, what you can do a supporter is to visit and tip her there. If you are already doing that, good job! keep it up

 

[Dan Epstein]

Dude, chivalry is cute, but confidentiality is a necessity. You can’t discuss a model’s matters if you’re not the model, regardless of how charming, caring, and sexy you may actually be

 

[AmberCutie]

posts here in the forum where someone has been banned and doesn't even know why, then there must be something wrong with this system.

I do wholeheartedly agree that it's a massive problem on CB. We've been telling them for YEARS to stop doing that shit, and actually tell models what they've done to be banned.

 

[Richyrichy]

I also agree with Amber. CB-Central (as I call them!) should actually tell a model why they are banned.

I would go further by adding they consider "second chances" Lifetime bans seem to be handed out very very easily. And I speak from experience having supported a few people now.

 

[anpawi]

Yes, thank you Amber and Richy that finally someone takes a stand on the actual topic. And while I'm typing here, there are probably a few new messages coming in where someone doesn't know why they've been banned. That's nuts.
What you and I are asking for is actually the basis of any democratic jurisdiction. A proper accusation and the right to a defense. The way CB handles it, it is more likely to be found in dictatorships.

 

[CheeseMoon]

What you and I are asking for is actually the basis of any democratic jurisdiction. A proper accusation and the right to a defense. The way CB handles it, it is more likely to be found in dictatorships.

CB is a private business and can run it pretty much however they want as long as it's not unlawful in their jurisdiction (California?). How smart the business decision is to treat models as disposable is another discussion. I haven't logged on to CB since last summer for various reasons, and I'm not tempted to spend any more money there now either. CB is a shit show.

 

[Hakuxl]

I have similar problem.
I had an account on Chaturbate since 3 months. It was my and my friend's account. We have more accounts, but it was the best of all (sexloovers, +40k followers). One time my friend created his personal account and he verified his age. He got into an unpleasant conversation with a one of models. She reported him. Chaturbate banned him. I am not sure it was a reason but it does not matter. Chaturbate banned all of his accounts and all of my accounts. Why my accounts? I really want to know ))))) Chaturbate Supporst wrote to me, they banned all his accounts and accounts connected to his ID. So they banned @sexloovers too and they banned all of my private accounts. I cannot understand it. Firstly I do not think so reason was this girl. They wrote to me the reason were harassment and profanity. I do not control my friend and I really do not know if he did something wrong. But I am really innocent. I loved to spend time on Chaturbate. It was not only my work. It was my passion and hobby )))) I feel depressed. For several days I cannot sleep and eat. I do not know my friend's conversation with her was a reason or maybe somebody impersonated us (it is possible, long story). They banned me, him and our ID address. I really do not know what should I do. I understand banned him, our IP address but i cannot understand banned me. Chaturbate support does not tell us exactly what he did wrong or send us any evidence. Their only answear is "You are permanently banned" and nothing more. Please help me. Did any of you have such a problem? What can I do to be unbanned? Please Chaturbate Support consider this matter again. Note that I have nothing to do with this account. I was not verified on it. I promise I have never done anything wrong and I never will. I am also a human being and deserve respect and understanding. Same as you work in this support, i was working on Chaturbate. I also have a family, life, expenses and I need to work as like everyone. Now I am really heartbroken. I am looking for support wherever I can. Please Chaturbate Support consider this matter again. Thanks.

 

[Hakuxl]

@punker barbie

 

[AmberCutie]

I have similar problem.
I had an account on Chaturbate since 3 months. It was my and my friend's account. We have more accounts, but it was the best of all (sexloovers, +40k followers). One time my friend created his personal account and he verified his age. He got into an unpleasant conversation with a one of models. She reported him. Chaturbate banned him. I am not sure it was a reason but it does not matter. Chaturbate banned all of his accounts and all of my accounts. Why my accounts? I really want to know ))))) Chaturbate Supporst wrote to me, they banned all his accounts and accounts connected to his ID. So they banned @sexloovers too and they banned all of my private accounts. I cannot understand it. Firstly I do not think so reason was this girl. They wrote to me the reason were harassment and profanity. I do not control my friend and I really do not know if he did something wrong. But I am really innocent. I loved to spend time on Chaturbate. It was not only my work. It was my passion and hobby )))) I feel depressed. For several days I cannot sleep and eat. I do not know my friend's conversation with her was a reason or maybe somebody impersonated us (it is possible, long story). They banned me, him and our ID address. I really do not know what should I do. I understand banned him, our IP address but i cannot understand banned me. Chaturbate support does not tell us exactly what he did wrong or send us any evidence. Their only answear is "You are permanently banned" and nothing more. Please help me. Did any of you have such a problem? What can I do to be unbanned? Please Chaturbate Support consider this matter again. Note that I have nothing to do with this account. I was not verified on it. I promise I have never done anything wrong and I never will. I am also a human being and deserve respect and understanding. Same as you work in this support, i was working on Chaturbate. I also have a family, life, expenses and I need to work as like everyone. Now I am really heartbroken. I am looking for support wherever I can. Please Chaturbate Support consider this matter again. Thanks.

At least you got a reason.

Also, are multiple accounts allowed there? It makes perfect sense to me that any accounts related to one that was justifiably banned are removed as well. I don't think you've got much of a case here unfortunately.

 

[Hakuxl]

But CB banned his private account, not our @sexloovers. Later they banned sexloovers and all of my accounts

 

[Just_A_Guy]

What is this 'formal mistake' the model made?

Asking the right question

What sense does it make to ban someone from CB if they don't even know what they did wrong?

Just playing the devil's advocate. Could it be that they don't know what is or isn't allowed on the site because they couldn't even be bothered with reading the TOS or just didn't care, got found out, and therefore got banned for that?

Also your investment on this model seems quite suspicious. Are you making any money off her, are you losing any? I don't get why should you care. Her problem, not your problem. My 2 cents.

 

[NotYou]

At least you got a reason.

Also, are multiple accounts allowed there? It makes perfect sense to me that any accounts related to one that was justifiably banned are removed as well. I don't think you've got much of a case here unfortunately.

From what support have told me you can have multiple accounts streaming but you must be using different camera angles on both streams.

 

[Dan Epstein]

I agree that CB does have a public image issue, and somehow a lot more "fricative" moments on the board here than any other brand.
I mean I've seen a major bank go down (gulp) and didn't get slammed as much as they do.
I've been on this board for 5 years now, and I honestly don't have any idea of how to get the Root Cause Analysis regarding to why their support always attracts drama and roasts. I really don't know, I can't even make an educated guess.

 

[anpawi]

CB is a private business and can run it pretty much however they want ...

You're right, of course. However, it would really have to be clarified to what extent it is legal to terminate members (or whatever you want to call it) without giving reasons.
I agree with you that the behavior it is not very smart.

... because they couldn't even be bothered with reading the TOS ...

Well, I'm not going to ask how many TOSs you've read yourself, from beginning to end. But I have given examples above where rooms were closed even though the model was not responsible for violating the TOS or was even completely absent. And even if someone has violated the guidelines, they should be told what their mistake was and given the opportunity to explain themselves. And CB should consider whether the violation really has to be punished with a ban right away or whether a warning wouldn't be sufficient in most cases.

It would be really interesting to know who is responsible for such a ban. Is it a single person who quickly pulls the trigger or is it discussed in a group?

Are you making any money off her

No definitely not.

I don't get why should you care.

Well, I'm really sorry for you. But I was brought up in such a way that you can also stand up for things without having to draw your own advantage from it. And you may have noticed that most of the text is general and not model specific.

 

[dark_mermaid]

I think you should let us know what her "formal mistake" was.

 

[Dan Epstein]

I would like to make something very clear, if an account is banned for something acute like fraud, fake documents, etc, then the reasons for banning wouldn’t be explained. It’s not unique to webcam. No one in PayPal for instance will tell you :
”Provide us with a better fake ID next time”.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

you can also stand up for things without having to draw your own advantage from it.

Absolutely

how many TOSs you've read yourself

I read the ToS when I subscribed as a member. Just saying that in my experience, as a member, I have never been banned or suspended, nor have any of the models I have tipped or done ptv with. That means we have always done something right, I guess. Also, there are plenty of models on this forum who work on cb, but I have never seen them posting on the forum that they have been banned. That means they are doing somenthing right, I suppose.

Now, can I remember the ToS? obvously not. Had a look yesterday. I have always used common sense. I don't work on cb, nor for cb. It's not my job to know a site ToS where I work and make money from. That is a model's job. If you want my personal opinion, not that you ask, if you are old enough to work, make money and perform for an adult site, you are also old enough to actually read the ToS. But this is just my opinion.

With regard to banning and giving reasons, I found what follows. I have no idea what is their policy. But they are in their rights. It is stated:

"We may, in our sole discretion, terminate or suspend your access to all or part of the Platform at any time, with or without notice, for any reason or no reason at all, including, without limitation, breach of this Agreement".

 

[AudriTwo]

Well, I'm not going to ask how many TOSs you've read yourself, from beginning to end.

anything that involves my job, every word. i'll also read it over again everytime there is an update. it is my responsibility to know what I can and can't do on the platform. every platform is different too. what may jive on one site is a huge heck no on others.

those TOS keep the site functional. lots of those rules are in place because it's in the site's payment processors' TOS or following their country of operation's laws. if payment processors and the government find out the site isn't following rules, they will shut the site down. the government will seize control site or payment processors will pull out. payment processors have pulled out or threatened to with other industry titans (ex: pornhub and onlyfans).

Well, I'm really sorry for you. But I was brought up in such a way that you can also stand up for things without having to draw your own advantage from it. And you may have noticed that most of the text is general and not model specific.

sorry that the model couldn't be bothered with reading what she was agreeing to and now she can't use the art you did for free for her on chaturbate. :c

chaturbate is in the right to ban whoever they want for whatever reason and they don't have to give it (as frustrating it is). it's their site.

 

[Highlander884]

The thing is we have had reports of groups targeting girls on cb and reporting them for no reason other to get them banned.

We've have had even top 100 models on here waiting months for reply while her stalker openly admitted on twitter he had reported her to cb in order to get her banned.
I seriously doubt it's just people not reading the rules that have been having problems.

CB really does need to improve. I mean if I knew a person who was looking into adult webcamming I wouldnt recommend cb unless they a) heavily promote and use a social network page incase they get banned and can tell people what site they have now moved to and b) they cash out at every given opportunity incase they lose well earned income due to being banned.

 

[CheeseMoon]

CB really does need to improve.

That's my armchair expert opinion too. The fact that this thread exists at all says everything, no matter the technicalities of the bans. Right now CB has a lot of inertia purely because of their size and brand recognition, but if the general opinion here on ACF eventually takes hold out in the general cam world, it's going to go south for them. When new models sign up somewhere else than CB without even thinking about it, their days will probably be numbered.

I mean, if I had to choose a token site as a new model (likely in the 'awkward bear' category), knowing what I now know, I wouldn't even consider Chaturbate.

 

[anpawi]

I think you should let us know what her "formal mistake" was.

You have misunderstood. I explained to the support that from user side nothing could be found that would have justified a ban (e.g. sleeping, drunk, drugs, scam or underage). In this respect, I rather _rhetorically_ assumed that it _could_ have been a formal mistake. I have mentioned several times that neither she nor the studio knows why she was banned.

 

[anpawi]

@Just_A_Guy and @AudriTwo

The idea that a TOS is written because the company wants to comply with the laws of the country is wrong. It is written because the company wants to enforce its own interests. It has often happened in the last years that parts of a TOS were recognized as illegal and the text then had to be changed. Just think of this young billionaire's company. So even if CB writes that they can kick someone out without giving a reason, that doesn't mean it's compliant with the laws.

When I read - I don't know if this is really true - that models don't get paid the tokens that are still on their account after a ban, then I really wonder which country has laws that support such a theft.

 

[anpawi]

The real problem is always the same, whether it is the popular online shop or CB: You're forced to complain to the support that the support doesn't provide a good support. This simply cannot work. What employee is stupid enough to report to their boss that customers have complained about them? Support today is in most cases a firewall that protects the company from annoying customers. And the company, with thousands or millions of customers, doesn't care if some of them use another online shop or, in this example, switch to SC. So I don't think CB suffers that much from having a few less models or users.