Open carry of guns with no required safety training in TN

[ThunderWeasel]

Tennessee Senate votes to allow gun owners to openly carry guns without a permit and eliminates mandatory gun safety training classes.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...-carry-a-gun-without-having-to-get-a-license/

 

[EdgarAllenWhoa]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

good luck...I see MANY self induced foot injuries occurring

 

[Diana Blake]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Um, I'm in New Mexico and it's an open carry state. The only thing you have to have training and a license for is concealed carry. (which I also have) Unless I'm mistaken I believe there are several other states that allow open carry without training or mandatory classes. In places like TN where you grow up surrounded by guns I feel that the law is going to help more than hinder. A lot of people carry a gun on them and many don't have the time or inclination for gun safety classes because telling them a gun is dangerous is about the same as telling them water is wet.

I have to wonder how many good people faced fines or jail time simply because they had a gun on their hip when they drove into town for groceries. When I was growing up I always had a gun on me from about age twelve, it was part of life growing up in the woods where every step could put you on the path of snakes, wild cats, bears and dogs. When I moved to a city for the first time I was actually shocked to realize that most of my friends had never seen a gun in person let alone attended a gun safety class. Hell, I was forced through one to get my concealed carry and 99% of the class was just pure common sense that I was taught around age four or five. I get the concern that some dumb kid might decide to walk into his local pawn shop and end up shooting off a few toes but in the long run this benefits the men and women that live in more rural areas that could face jail time for simply having a gun on their hip when they're caught in a speed trap.

There are quite a few ranchers and farmers in TN and these are the people that this law benefits, not all laws are meant simply for the city dwellers and I think sometimes it's forgotten that a lot of the laws that make cities safer hurt the people that live in more rural areas. While this has become state law I'm sure counties will put up their own checks and balances as necessary for their people.

 

[Bocefish]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Alaska has been that way ever since I can remember... even before there were so-called laws that allowed it.

 

[CharlotteLace]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

That article seems a bit slanted, doesn't it? "Zomg ANYBODY can have a gun now in Tennessee and they don't need to be safe and this law is driven by pro-gun lawmakers!!!!!"

When in actuality, plenty of states don't require training or permits for open-carry. Obviously if it passed Tennessee's voters, it's a law that population is comfortable with. Why worry about what they do?

 

[Bocefish]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

That article seems a bit slanted, doesn't it? "Zomg ANYBODY can have a gun now in Tennessee and they don't need to be safe and this law is driven by pro-gun lawmakers!!!!!"

When in actuality, plenty of states don't require training or permits for open-carry. Obviously if it passed Tennessee's voters, it's a law that population is comfortable with. Why worry about what they do?

I'm surprised it wasn't more slanted coming from that site. There will always be people that think guns are evil, especially if they're painted black.

 

[bawksy]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

New Hampshire is this way. You only need a permit for a couple of things like concealed carry. Even if you do decide to request a permit, there's no training requirement.

The amount of gun violence we have is almost negligible compared to our neighbors to the south, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, which requires a gun license to so much as even carry pepper spray.

 

[Bocefish]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

I would just like to add that even if it's not required by law, anyone that is not experienced would greatly benefit from training, whether it be from a seasoned friend, relative or official classes and practice, practice, practice with safety always being priority one.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[CharlotteLace]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

I'm surprised it wasn't more slanted coming from that site. There will always be people that think guns are evil, especially if they're painted black.

No kidding. The rare times we've openly carried, people look at us like we have a live grenade on our hip, with the pin pulled out already. :lol:

My sister-in-law is staunchly against weapons of any kind. Funny enough, when there was a small manhunt going on in her neighborhood for a man running from the cops, she still made her husband search the house (unarmed, obviously) while she waited safely in the car.

 

[Bocefish]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

My sister-in-law is staunchly against weapons of any kind. Funny enough, when there was a small manhunt going on in her neighborhood for a man running from the cops, she still made her husband search the house (unarmed, obviously) while she waited safely in the car.

LOL, reminds me of a funny saying... You may not like guns, and choose not to own one. That is your right. You might not believe in God. That is your choice. However, if someone is breaking into your home the first two things you are probably going to do are:

1) Call someone with a gun.

2) Pray they get there in time.

 

[bawksy]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

she still made her husband search the house (unarmed, obviously) while she waited safely in the car.

lel

I'm actually kind of surprised I don't see more (any?) women's rights groups campaigning for firearms freedoms, considering guns are the ultimate equalizer.

 

[CharlotteLace]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

I'm actually kind of surprised I don't see more (any?) women's rights groups campaigning for firearms freedoms, considering guns are the ultimate equalizer.

You know, I hadn't thought about it, but I think you're on to something. I do know a fair amount of feminists who carry, but I've never seen an organized movement for it. I will add that any time I encounter an IRL friend or camgirl who's encountered a scary situation, my first advice is to take self-defense classes and consider firearms training.

Funny enough, I never was educated about guns until I met my husband. But I'm so glad we have them. It's one of those things you'd rather have and never need, instead of need and never have.

Last note about my SIL, she is a feminist but I'll admit I don't think all feminists are like her. She's just really irritating and I dislike her anyway. Mostly because of her hypocritical stances.

 

[Bocefish]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Actually, women are the largest growing demographic of firearm owners and concealed carry applicants. Both the sport and the industry are opening up more and more to accommodate female shooters. There's been plenty of marches by women for 2A rights too.

For more info, you can check out the following links:

http://www.thewellarmedwoman.com/

http://www.packinginpink.com/schools/

http://women.nra.org/

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Um, I'm in New Mexico and it's an open carry state. The only thing you have to have training and a license for is concealed carry. (which I also have) Unless I'm mistaken I believe there are several other states that allow open carry without training or mandatory classes. In places like TN where you grow up surrounded by guns I feel that the law is going to help more than hinder. A lot of people carry a gun on them and many don't have the time or inclination for gun safety classes because telling them a gun is dangerous is about the same as telling them water is wet.

Same here in Missouri. We haven't needed a permit or anything for open carry nor concealed inside your car. Only if you want to conceal carry walking about in public do you need 'training.' The training consisted of shooting 20 rounds at a target 7 yards away. You had to get 75% of them within a certain area on the target. Also we had demonstrate we knew how to load and unload a pistol and a semi, with rubber bullets. And the rest of the training consisted of about 7 hours of watching DVD's. They were mostly on the laws and such.

 

[Gen]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Sorry if this is ignorant; obviously it's really different up here. So in some places, you don't require a permit or training - you can literally just go buy it and carry it around, as long as it's not concealed? The other thing I don't get is why do they differentiate between concealed & open? As in, why would one need training and not the other?

 

[CharlotteLace]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Sorry if this is ignorant; obviously it's really different up here. So in some places, you don't require a permit or training - you can literally just go buy it and carry it around, as long as it's not concealed? The other thing I don't get is why do they differentiate between concealed & open? As in, why would one need training and not the other?

Pending a background check, yes. I could literally walk into a gun store today and walk out with a gun. I have before. In my state, however, a lot of establishments dislike open carry and will ask you to leave if you walk in with a gun on your hip. So it's more practical to go obtain a concealed-carry permit.

I'm not sure why one doesn't require a permit and the other does. My guess is for a lot of rural states, open carry is more beneficial for ranchers and farmers who would mostly be carrying on their property. A lot of people who would carry firearms in that situation would already be well-versed in firearms, and might not have the time to take a day-long class for a permit. Concealed carry, on the other hand, is more likely to be used in a more suburban/urban environment as a matter of personal protection. My guess is they'd prefer you going through training if you're going to have a weapon on you while in more densely populated areas.

Just my guess, though. I haven't looked up any specific facts.

 

[eclipse76]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

New Hampshire is this way. You only need a permit for a couple of things like concealed carry. Even if you do decide to request a permit, there's no training requirement.

The amount of gun violence we have is almost negligible compared to our neighbors to the south, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, which requires a gun license to so much as even carry pepper spray.

Pepper spray is not even allowed to be carried here.

 

[bawksy]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

So in some places, you don't require a permit or training - you can literally just go buy it and carry it around, as long as it's not concealed?

Yup. And in two states that I can think of off the top of my head, Alaska and Vermont, you don't even need a license to concealed carry in public. Furthermore, in many states, such as New Hampshire, you only need to get a background check when purchasing from a licensed dealer. Private transactions are cash and carry, no paperwork necessary.

In my state, however, a lot of establishments dislike open carry and will ask you to leave if you walk in with a gun on your hip. So it's more practical to go obtain a concealed-carry permit.

Yeah, closer to the big cities, a lot of cops don't like open carry either. You can go on Youtube and find lots of videos of cops harassing people who are (lawfully) open carrying. In New Hampshire, a lot of cops are poorly educated (go figure) on gun laws, and will demand to see a license for open carrying, even though one is not necessary. Sometimes it involves a trip to the police station in hand cuffs before the sergeant has to educate the dumbass officer that open carry is not illegal. So, in general, even in places where open carry is legal, it isn't always wise.

The other thing I don't get is why do they differentiate between concealed & open? As in, why would one need training and not the other?

This is the United States of America. The laws don't have to make sense. And they don't. And they make no sense in a different way in each one of the 50 states, Puerto Rico, D.C. and federally.
Not every state is like that though. Some states flip it around, like Texas, where open carry is illegal period. It's so illegal, that you can't even hint that you're carrying a gun if you have one concealed (i.e. the outline can't be "printing" through your shirt)
Again, it doesn't have to make sense. It's the USA.

 

[Sevrin]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Sometimes it involves a trip to the police station in hand cuffs before the sergeant has to educate the dumbass officer that open carry is not illegal. So, in general, even in places where open carry is legal, it isn't always wise.

My guess is that "education" is a bit of theatre, and that the point of the exercise to discourage citizens from running around with a weapon without making them want to sue the police department for harassment.

Again, it doesn't have to make sense. It's the USA.

Yes, that's a good point. Many other countries do have a more sensible approach to the private ownership and handling of weapons.

 

[Zoomer]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in a culture where guns are so common place that this all seems so weird; walking around near people with guns strapped to their hip - I'd find that incredibly unsettling and potentially make me want to get one myself "just incase one is a fucking nutter".

The idea that the first solution to several problems should be carrying a weapon seems... fucked up.

"To protect myself against rape, a crime with a statistic of %, we should carry a gun."
"Incase I get attacked, I should carry a gun".
"Incase someone has broken into my home, I should carry a gun"
"Incase someone parks in my space, I should carry a gun"

Okay, being facetious. The last one is the only real legit scenario

What happens with road rage in those states (I pick road rage as it seems to be one that makes people 'snap' quite easily for something that's actually trivial)?
Do people with guns not get into arguments? Things tend to escalate quickly - especially in heat or where alcohol is concerned.

Maybe I only see the negatives, but on the flip side, how often do you need to draw the gun? How many scenarios have you actually been in where not carrying would have resulted in potential death (yours?) and what was it you needed such protection to use against? I know it's a "right", but are there many legitimate times when it was required, or could you not just have left it at home and lived the same life.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in a culture where guns are so common place that this all seems so weird; walking around near people with guns strapped to their hip - I'd find that incredibly unsettling and potentially make me want to get one myself "just incase one is a fucking nutter".

The idea that the first solution to several problems should be carrying a weapon seems... fucked up.

"To protect myself against rape, a crime with a statistic of %, we should carry a gun."
"Incase I get attacked, I should carry a gun".
"Incase someone has broken into my home, I should carry a gun"
"Incase someone parks in my space, I should carry a gun"


Maybe I only see the negatives...

If you were seeing the negatives it would be more like this:

"To protect myself against rape, a crime with a statistic of %, I should call the police. Oh wait, the guy is already on top of me with a knife to my throat and he threw my purse 20 feet away. Let the rape begin"
"Incase I get attacked, I should get attacked because I don't have a gun. ER trip here I come IF I should live through the next 10 minutes."
"Incase someone has broken into my home, they should brutally murder my wife and kids while i'm tied up to a chair and forced to watch since i don't have a gun, then kill me on the way out."
"Incase someone parks in my space, I should carry a gun" Yes, you were being silly there, everyone knows you just key their paint job.

FIFY

 

[Zoomer]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

The point is...

What's the crime rate of rape?
What's the crime rate of violent assault that leads to death or significant injury (rather than just a right hook to the face).
What's the crime rate of a burglary being violent and resulting in death? *

I don't have a doubt that in the event of any of the most significant of the above, you'd want a weapon to defend yourself. The point is - what's the likelihood. Especially for those with a concealed weapon (so the visible deterrent would not apply).

What I am getting at - there is a chance you can be struck by lightening.
But I don't walk around with a lightning conductor trailing 2m behind me to protect myself in the event it happens, as the chances are really really really small.
There is a chance I can contract HIV and die... but I don't walk around with a condom on all the time - it's only applied when there is a risk - having sex with people I don't know terribly well.

That's the point I'm trying to make. What's the actual risk? Ergo, is the protection necessary or proportional.


* I have been the victim of aggravated burglary. This means they know you are in and violently try to enter. I ended up in hospital with a fractured thumb as I managed to keep the 3 out. However, had I had a gun - whilst I would have felt safer, I would also probably have been responsible for several deaths - which is a very disturbing thought.

 

[Sevrin]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

Guns are like the Patriot Act. They make you safer in theory, but that's mostly an illusion. And what you give up is far more important than theoretical safety.

 

[Bocefish]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

I don't have a doubt that in the event of any of the most significant of the above, you'd want a weapon to defend yourself. The point is - what's the likelihood. Especially for those with a concealed weapon (so the visible deterrent would not apply).

Nobody is making you carry life insurance either, some people choose to be better prepared and covered just in case. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

What happens with road rage in those states (I pick road rage as it seems to be one that makes people 'snap' quite easily for something that's actually trivial)?
Do people with guns not get into arguments? Things tend to escalate quickly - especially in heat or where alcohol is concerned.

My area could be unique, but here's how it goes here:
Most disputes/arguments resulting in shots being fired are idiot "gang" members or wannabes trying to look tough. Citizens pulling guns are rare - usually they just make it known that they have them, and the hoodlums calm down and crawl back in their holes.

Real-Life Example:
I currently live in a crime and gang hotspot in my city. Last summer, the gangs were ramping up their members and activity and trying to run things. So, the gun-owning homeowners in the area, mostly ex-military, began making it known just which guns they own. My neighborhood has a few AK-47's, as well as a Barrett sniper rifle or two. All in the hands of people who know how to use them, and who will not hesitate to do so, if the need should arise. As soon as the gangs knew just how badly mangled they would be if they followed through with their plans, we had a quiet, fairly crime-free year. No shots fired, just the knowledge that the weapons were there was control enough.

 

[bawksy]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

No shots fired, just the knowledge that the weapons were there was control enough.

An armed society is a polite society.

 

[eclipse76]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

No shots fired, just the knowledge that the weapons were there was control enough.

An armed society is a polite society.

The Swiss are super polite indeed. :mrgreen:

 

[bud9752]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

 

[kinkiboi4fun]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

I'm surprised it wasn't more slanted coming from that site. There will always be people that think guns are evil, especially if they're painted black.

No kidding. The rare times we've openly carried, people look at us like we have a live grenade on our hip, with the pin pulled out already...

This is just me and my experience living in the Midwest in a very conservative area, but I have a very, very strong distrust for people who open carry. I'm not saying everyone who open carries is like this, it's just been my experience specific to my region (among others):

The ones around here who open carry are generally doing it not out of any pragmatic reason, but to make a political (or more egregiously, a fashion) statement, and almost without exception they embody the stereotype of the gun-waving, survivalist, right-wing nutjob. I have no inherent issue with being a gun rights advocate (I am as well), nor being conservative in and of itself, but the simple fact is they're fundamentally unsafe gun owners and I cannot and will not abide that. Their firearms are generally not well-maintained, ill-secured, and not handled safely or with due respect or understanding of the responsibilities and duties that come with firearm ownership; equally without exception, they hardly ever demonstrate fundamental knowledge of firearm use and safety through conversation. These are people who, regardless of political orientation, have no business owning a firearm, let alone open carrying, or god forbid putting one to use.

It's absolutely, positively, unforgivable. This area has a strong hunting culture, and firearms are everywhere. I can name about five gun clubs within a 25-mile radius off the top of my head, including one nationally-famous one for its annual events. There are NRA classes (federal and state) around here, and the state police and county sheriff offices both offer free and readily-available firearm safety instruction. The only way to stay ignorant of firearm safety in this area, is to make a concerted, willful effort to remain so...or simply not give a damn.

 

[Bocefish]

Re: Open carry of guns with no required safety training in T

A site every gun owner should bookmark:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Lots of great info, some recommended reading and links strictly for women as well. :thumbleft: