We have literal proof of Trump saying that the Nazi group has some "fine people" among them, but it's totally fake news right?
I'd suggest the POTUS not standing up fully against the group is encouraging others to act out more brazenly.
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I'd suggest the POTUS not standing up fully against the group is encouraging others to act out more brazenly.
I think generally Americans give the President too much credit and too much blame for the economy and the stock market.
What really saved the US/world economy was the actions of Treasury Secretary John Paulson (Bush) and the Tim Geitner (Obama) working with Federal Reserve to push through unpopular, but essential programs like TARP. Obama's stimulus package was helpful but like most stimulus packages in our history, it took so long (years) for the money to flow from the Federal government to the states, to the local community to a contractor who hired workers. Much of the stimulus money was spent well after the economy was on the path to recovery.
I'd argue that American people were really responsible for the recovery. Everyone from Warren Buffett who loaned billions of dollars to banks and GE, to the small business owner who didn't lay off his folks, to the individual consumer, who didn't curl up into a fetal position but continue to buy stuff from cars to cellphones, to stocks.
The major exception to my view that the President isn't that important is in foreign policy, and trade where the President is closer to a king. So I'll give Trump credit for his rhetoric reducing illegal immigrants. But he also deserves blame for pulling out of the TPP, and the fear he has caused for companies highly dependent on NAFTA. We will never know for sure how many jobs he has cost us with his rash decisions, but my money is on hundreds of thousands of jobs.
dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
Americans are going to get confused when a presidential candidate says Obama doesn't deserve credit for improving the economy but as soon as he's elected (not even in office yet) he takes credit for the same improvement.
There's no consistency of the message.
Trump says the investigation into the whole Russian meddling is going on too long. The republicans ran "investigations" into Benghazi and Clinton's emails for YEARS!
The ACA was "shoved down the throats" of republicans but their attempts at repeal were done the same way. And both had "backroom deals" to get support.
Don't bitch about something that "you" think is wrong and then when you're in power do the same thing.
It's bullshit.
P.S. My use of "you" is not a specific reference to any individual here, but a generic "you" to political parties.
There's no consistency of the message.
Trump says the investigation into the whole Russian meddling is going on too long. The republicans ran "investigations" into Benghazi and Clinton's emails for YEARS!
The ACA was "shoved down the throats" of republicans but their attempts at repeal were done the same way. And both had "backroom deals" to get support.
Don't bitch about something that "you" think is wrong and then when you're in power do the same thing.
It's bullshit.
P.S. My use of "you" is not a specific reference to any individual here, but a generic "you" to political parties.
Supply that proof please!
From here: https://www.vox.com/2017/8/15/16154028/trump-press-conference-transcript-charlottesville
The quote she’s talking about: “If you reported it accurately, you would say that the neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. Excuse me. They didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis. You had some very bad people in that group. You also had some very fine people on both sides.“
Dude was great on The Daily Show. Speaking of, watching Trevor Noah getting acclimated with being host has been painful. I really like the guy. He's funny, well educated and well traveled. The show has just been terrible unfortunately. They have a newer show that I enjoy but doubt it will last long. Forget the name but the host has a Colbert like goofiness to him that is hilarious.
This one? Or maybe one of these?
Sorry if none of these are it. Dude can be agonizing to listen to.
dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
JESUS CHRIST! It's from the fucking nationally televised press conference from Trump tower, broadcast live.
dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
#2 was first, #3 was an attempt to save his ass and #1 was the final one from Trump tower lobby.
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https://newrepublic.com/article/145731/liberals-becoming-knee-jerk-anti-trumpists
In my past, I was assaulted by a KKK member. I have no illusions about the vile nature of supremacist doctrines. Unfortunately, politicians and the media use such things to encourage a black and white view of reality. These things cannot be contained within a label.
I remain open minded, but as it stands now, I maintain that Trump was dead on the money about his statements regarding Charlottesville.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/rabid-anti-trumper-arrested-calif-threatening-go-killing-spree/
So how many here agree with the view that Trump and his supporters must be "violently resisted"? @JickyJuly?
From a left leaning site.
In my past, I was assaulted by a KKK member. I have no illusions about the vile nature of supremacist doctrines. Unfortunately, politicians and the media use such things to encourage a black and white view of reality. These things cannot be contained within a label.
I remain open minded, but as it stands now, I maintain that Trump was dead on the money about his statements regarding Charlottesville.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/rabid-anti-trumper-arrested-calif-threatening-go-killing-spree/
So how many here agree with the view that Trump and his supporters must be "violently resisted"? @JickyJuly?
Roger. Thank you for the clarification.
A bad idea for many reasons in my opinion. The most obvious being that one side is armed to the teeth and looking for any reason to express what they feel is their second amendment right. The other side is, well, mostly all talk. Not a fight that can realistically be won at this time. Would also lose the already fleeting moral high ground the left once prided themselves on.
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I am afraid that ship disappeared over the horizon a few months back for me
.You mentioned Trevor Noah. I have liked the guy too, listened to him on NPR a while back and found it riveting. Watching him interview Hillary Clinton the other night was different. Very uncomfortable to see.
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I am afraid that ship disappeared over the horizon a few months back for me
You mentioned Trevor Noah. I have liked the guy too, listened to him on NPR a while back and found it riveting. Watching him interview Hillary Clinton the other night was different. Very uncomfortable to see.
Dude went so easy on her. Lost a decent amount of respect for him. Was admittedly hard to watch.
Yeah, funny dude. Hope the show sticks around. The Opposition for any wondering. Was just on.
dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
"Violently" resisted? No. That makes us no better than them.
Steadfastly resisted? Yes. Show the same unrelenting loyalty to our point of view as they do to theirs.
There's nothing wrong with standing up for your convictions.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, just not to your own facts."
No reactions should be “violent”. That shouldn’t be tolerated on either side in any situation.
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I am glad we agree on that.
If your point of view requires you to omit facts, then you are going to have to embrace ignorance and/or surrender integrity to continue supporting it.
I have seen a number of videos of the Dodge Charger. And the gun being discharged. And the improvised flamethrower. And the clubs, pepper spray, and other weapons.
Fact: there were good people among the protestors and the counterprotestors.
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I fully supported removing the Confederate flag from state flags. The issue about statues is deliberate stupidity. There are more important things we should be focusing on. Oh look! A protest!
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_5860d97a-59b8-5485-9548-e4086be1d624.html
dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
I wouldn't like to see that but the other side does do that even to the point of creating their own 'facts'.
So have I and none of it belongs in a protest about removing a statue, including the death of a woman.
FACT: one side showed up with signs, clubs, sticks and shields. The other side showed up with signs, clubs, sticks, shields, military-style clothing, handguns and long rifles (including assault style guns). There was pre-planned violence (such as the assault of a black man by four neo-nazis). There was a tiki-torch march the night before shouting racist slurs (mostly anti-semitic). Those were not good people.
The removal of those statues to a museum type setting is entirely appropriate. Unless the statue was erected within 10 years of the end of the civil war, it is not a part of our "heritage".
JickyJuly
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People with crappy opinions that they can't back up love when things go below the belt because that lets them shift the focus to how they've been victimized. Unless the outlaws count, I've only been around white supremacists in a group situation twice that I know of. Both times, they were super antagonistic to pretty much anyone they thought they could get to. It's what they want. They work kind of like narcissists. If you fall into their drama, they win. Still, I'm not crying for them if they get themselves hurt parading around acting like idiots. What is that @Bocefish likes to say? Play stupid games. Get stupid rewards. I don't think their work should be protected. I don't think police should have to stand between them and what they're asking for. And, they are asking for it. If they want to rant and rave against their fellow citizens, they should have to pay for their own security.
If you don't just mean bigots, I think every time Trump tries to do something unconstitutional and inches us ever closer to fascism, his supporters should be the ones calling him out the loudest. Where Trump and the extreme right want to take our country needs to be opposed. It goes against everything America claims to be. Not sure if I'd want to punch the people who support fascism without recognizing it though. I pity them a bit for believing that a billionaire in a cheap hat has their best interests at heart. Doubt a broken nose comes close to what they need in order to be stronger, smarter people. Anyone who votes for or supports Roy Moore deserves a few punches though.
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And in my opinion anyone worthy of being called "fine people" would separate themselves from that behavior. That isn't fine.
D
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There've been a few posts by a member/model or two in this very thread calling for "violently opposing" and other hate speech which they feel is fine because they don't see it as such.
That doesn't mean I'm wrong. No one said I agreed with them.
Are you insinuating that since they said that, and they are on the forum I run, that I am associated with that line of thought? As much as you're trying to make my comment seem hypocritical, I do believe that posts on a forum are different than showing up to a protest with them and standing behind them as they violently oppose people.
D
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How do you feel protesters becoming violent, throwing feces, urine, and rioting to burn and destroy property?
D
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No, not that at all. I am merely pointing out that hate speech exists in this very thread, yet the person/people do not see it as such.
JickyJuly
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I think it gives people like you an easy way to ask nonsense questions instead of focusing on actual issues. I also think these things are usually only done by opportunists who aren't really interested in the purpose of protest. If you choose to make those people the face of a protest, you've already dismissed any real discussion or change. I'm not sure who's throwing bodily waste. Doesn't seem like a win for anyone. No one is condoning violent mob scenes filled with excrement.
D
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"Nonsense" questions? these are legitimate questions, because the protests seem to become more violent as time goes by.
But, think what you want...
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Both sides are doing it.
Both sides showed up armed. That, and the mask wearing should be a no no in my opinion.
I don't doubt there was pre-planned violence. The black man that was assaulted? Arrested, because it appears he was one of the hoodlums that was out there to cause chaos, and the beating he got may have been a retaliatory one. Lock em all up, him and the folks that beat him down both (and his attackers weren't all neo-nazis btw).
As long as they had a permit to be out there with their tiki-torches the night before, and they weren't fucking assaulting people, I don't care if they were good or not.
I have also heard complaints from both sides that the whole situation was encouraged by the actions of the police. I haven't seen video evidence of that, but I would bet it is the truth.
Fake. News.
One of the groups already released a statement announcing their intent to distance themselves from the KKK element. I hope both sides rethink where this little made-for-tv color revolution is headed.
I view that neo-nazi crap with just as much distaste as anybody. Same as I view the fuckers on the other side that have been coming out rioting.
I was just asking about Trump supporters.
I am the only one in my family who didn't vote for Trump, and I spent a few months chatting with them trying to figure out what the fuck they were thinking. None of what I have heard from them would justify them being attacked, but there is an element out there that apparently feels quite justified.
You mentioned fascism. Unfortunately the left isn't quite ready to stop helping the right out with that. A must read...
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/mccarthyism-inc-hyping-russian-threat-undermine-free-speech/
Written by Max Blumenthal, who to the best of my knowledge isn't a Nazi.
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