On whales; their importance and associated matters

[zoober]

Go in a cam girl's room, could be 2000 users and chances are just 1 or 2 guys account for 80% + of the tips. They're whales.

And sure sure, a cam girl can tell you every tip matters and ra ra ra, and blah blah, blah, but that's a nice, whereas whales are a necessary. So just wondering what are the upsides and downsides to whales, how do folks attract and keep them let alone manage them.

Heck, are you a whale yourself and if so how did you become one?

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Can't speak from a model's perspective. Only from a member's.

1) Upsides: They help keep a room's topic going. Sometimes they help feed the energy of a model's room, and keep them sane rather than blankly staring at a monitor or feeling too awkward if no one else is talking. Sometimes, they help get a room going and get more people to tip.
2) Downsides: They are the biggest contributors to said model's income, when others rarely contribute. If at all. Eventually, they may tire, and stop tipping and leave. Or, may tip in other ways such as privates with said model, anonymously or privately without room seeing. Which could cause the model to treat them specially, and focus more on them than the room in general.
3) Attract: Luck of the draw, depending upon their likes, and how the model is at the time they enter a model's room
4) Retain: Has to be a continued positive experience for them. Tips are appreciated, and not expected. The room atmosphere could have a lot to do with it as well
5) Manage them: Clarify this further, please. It could be a few different things. But, typically, the ones I have encountered do of their own accord as they see fit.

Am I one? I may be a whale to some. But, I could also be plankton to others. It's all relative depending upon the finances of each member.

 

[Smores]

Most models want whales, so I think the question you are asking is artificial and actually presents a problem that most models would not consider a problem.

The real problem with these webcam sites is that there is a huge number of viewers who simply never pay a penny and then leech off of the generosity of those who do tip. That's something that eats away at a lot of models.

What the webcam sites should be doing about that problem is creating lots of additional features to let models control who gets to view things for free. Maybe limit the resolution seen by basic/grey users? Maybe limit the amount of time they can spend in a room before a mandatory toll charge appears (it can be ultra small).

The one time I saw a whale as a "problem" was in the room of a well-known cam superstar who somehow got a fanboy who must certainly be a tech millionaire, because he routinely gives 100K tokens in cumulative tips. This is so out of proportion to anything I have seen before that I think his massive tips actually humiliate the other whales in the room and make them not want to tip as much. That is a high quality problem to have, when you land a whale so large that he scares away the other whales.

 

[Nikola Tesla]

I could also be plankton

lol

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

As a camgirl coming from mfc and sm: both are really important. Of course we will give more time and attention to whales individually, however the small/penny tippers are equally as important to a healthy room. I think the Nickle tippers deserve almost as much time out of our day as well as a whole. Even if the 'plankton' tippers are not out in numbers any given night when whales are, it still shows a token (haha) of gratititude and also helps with the feel of the room. No camgirl or members want to feel like they're only succeeding because you are reaching out to a select few.

Yes, your 1 token matters, it's heard. Some nights it reassures us we are liked. Every penny adds up but also, at the very least for reassurance we are doing our job well enough to be appreciated. My best mfc friend and reg taught me to collect both the pennies Nickles and dimes as well as the hundoes. Money is money and thankfulness is thankfulness no matter how big or small.

 

[SophiaSophia]

its funny- the mention of whales
I had someone elses VERY big whale come into my room a cpl weeks ago and I frankly froze
I felt like he obviously made some huge mistake stumbling into my room- I felt guilty he was there instantly- hopeful he'd tip even 5 tkns (he didn't)
and ya

I agree with everything ForceTen said and Luxy Reid

the big whales make up a lot of the room tips but the little guys make me personally feel appreciated and welcome and encourage me to keep going. I unfortunately don't have any big tippers at all and not too many of the little guys so I can mainly only speak from observation in other models rooms.
TBH if I know these 5 guys will interact with me and we entertain each other- AND they consistently tip- big or small- I will unconsciously focus on them more because I still havent figured out how to draw a good talking and tipping crowd.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

The more your income depends on whales, the less stable it is. I've been camming nearly 7 years on MFC and there are times when i have a regular whale tipper and times when i do not.

For me, whales are fantastic for those quick camscore boosts, and for rescuing me when im having a bad day/month.
They are terrible for me in that they make me lazy. I lose my hustle.

I had a guy for almost 2 years ... and he left quite suddenly for personal reasons. I also took a month vacation around that time. When i came back i wnet through 6 months of serious rebuilding because i had gotten so *lazy* that i wasn't bringing the same hustle to my cam room, focussing on converting new members to regulars etc.. it took some serious time. The amount of time i was spending offline talking to him was taking away from my on cam hours etc.


I will definitely enjoy a whale when i have one but I push myself to make sure that my income % is coming from as wide a pool of people as possible. That way if i lose someone, I will be stable.


TLDR: Whales are awesome and important especially when you need someone to catch you when you fall. But small tippers are important because they bring the stability that you need to camming.

 

[TokenGesture]

I'm a dolphin. I had whale envy and pretensions for a little while but I'm better now.

 

[SophiaSophia]

I'm a dolphin. I had whale envy and pretensions for a little while but I'm better now.

are you holding your cock in your avi!?!

 

[TokenGesture]

are you holding your cock in your avi!?!

I sure am . . . and a prize winning one at that!

 

[SophiaSophia]

I sure am . . . and a prize winning one at that!

I rarely say this unless I really mean it...but thats a beautiful cock

 

[SMuser69]

Most models want whales, so I think the question you are asking is artificial and actually presents a problem that most models would not consider a problem.

The real problem with these webcam sites is that there is a huge number of viewers who simply never pay a penny and then leech off of the generosity of those who do tip. That's something that eats away at a lot of models.

What the webcam sites should be doing about that problem is creating lots of additional features to let models control who gets to view things for free. Maybe limit the resolution seen by basic/grey users? Maybe limit the amount of time they can spend in a room before a mandatory toll charge appears (it can be ultra small).

The one time I saw a whale as a "problem" was in the room of a well-known cam superstar who somehow got a fanboy who must certainly be a tech millionaire, because he routinely gives 100K tokens in cumulative tips. This is so out of proportion to anything I have seen before that I think his massive tips actually humiliate the other whales in the room and make them not want to tip as much. That is a high quality problem to have, when you land a whale so large that he scares away the other whales.

There are already sites like these they are pvt online sites like SM and Livejasmine and to the more extreme CamContacts. And those sites do ok. I'm more a whale on those sites than on a public site because I'm a selfish person and don't like sharing. I think SM's goldshows and Jasmine's VIP shows have help open things up for those guys that want to pay for a show but maybe don't have budgets for full privates.

The freeloader problem has always been more an issue when it comes to public chat sites like CB and MFC. There are alternative sites for models that feel this is truly an issue for them.

 

[AudriTwo]

Rule #27
Never depend on whales. They usually are never to be seen again as quickly as they appeared. But they are wonderful, spoil them like they spoil you in the meantime.

 

[itsDaphne]

When one or two whales made up the vast majority of my income, as grateful as I am for their generosity it was hard to justify that "I'm my own boss". Whereas if every premium who spent 5 minutes in my room tipped 20 tokens, I'd make my countdown goals without stress and be able to give public chat the undivided attention it deserves. Having a dedicated whale member's support is indescribably awesome, but nothing beats having a room full of active participants.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

Rule #27
Never depend on whales. They usually are never to be seen again as quickly as they appeared. But they are wonderful, spoil them like they spoil you in the meantime.

when we talk about whales, i'm talking about sustained high tipping regulars not randoms that appear, tip a fuckload and never come back... ? Am I working of an incorrect definition?

 

[AudriTwo]

when we talk about whales, i'm talking about sustained high tipping regulars not randoms that appear, tip a fuckload and never come back... ? Am I working of an incorrect definition?

From my experience, most whales stick around for like a week. They don't stick around too long. That's what I meant.



I

 

[Deleted member 37064]

From my experience, most whales stick around for like a week. They don't stick around too long. That's what I meant.

I

The rooms I've been in, it is regulars whom have been there for a long time. Or, show up somewhat regularly.

 

[AudriTwo]

The rooms I've been in, it is regulars whom have been there for a long time. Or, show up somewhat regularly.

I'm talking about my site, which is a whole different game then MFC. Regulars tend to jerk off and leave once they are finished. Majority aren't there to have a conversation. I have maybe atm 5 big spender types who I would definitely consider whales who I maybe every other day. But most of the time I will get a whale who will take me to exclusive for a week straight spending his entire limit on me. Then he is never to be seen or heard from again.

You don't rely on whales, because one day they will go away. Also you don't know when they might show up. It's seriously all the normal regs who make up a lot of my income. I worked really hard to build a steady amount of regs who tip into my shows no matter what or will take me to private for a couple minutes. I'm constantly working on building new customers, because the old ones may never come back.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Each site is different, as is each models room. I think you're doing it right by focusing on tips from a broader group of people than just a few.

It is also a different perspective depending upon which side of the camera one is one.

 

[zoober]

Lots of hecking interesting responses. My idea of a whale is a BIG tipping regular.

My own view is if there's just the one he can distort a room quite badly (or not) depending on his personality i.e. how demanding and domineering he is

 

[Lucid1]

The freeloader problem has always been more an issue when it comes to public chat sites like CB and MFC. There are alternative sites for models that feel this is truly an issue for them.

It's the new business model of revenue generation, just like in "free-to-play" games. If a site has free registration and no "requirement" to tip, then why do people even use the term "freeloader"? People download and play free-to-play games without ever spending a penny on any given game, but in any given free-to-play game, the other players don't have a clue who supports the developers, and who does not. But, the game developers sure do know. Can you imagine what would happen if a game developer "outed" players for being "freeloaders" to other players? At the end of the day, all the game developer can do is hope that the "conversion ratio" of free players to "paying players" is enough to keep the game afloat. In F2P games, that conversion factor is statistically between 3-5 percent, and of that 3-5 percent, less than .1 percent are whales, but the important thing here is that the whales help keep the developer afloat.

It's no different with adult sites who employ free registration. They are counting on the fact that a percentage of users will convert from free users to paying members, and a certain percentage of those converted members will be considered "whales". I don't know the conversion stats on adult sites, but it has to be good enough for sites like MFC and CB to stay afloat for as long as they have. I guess it's a pet peeve of mine whenever I hear someone use the term "freeloader" when talking about users on sites that employ this type of business model. But, I think most successful models on these sites have figured out it's up to them to build a following of regulars. Most of them know, or should know, that the site is just the venue.

 

[zoober]

Heckova interesting approach (the F2P comparison), though with that I'd say F2P does involve selling your attention/time to increasingly invasive ads. For me camming offers a great test case for both the importance of and limitations of "rational" individualistic behaviour,. most obviously the free-rider problem.

A live CB example right now (guesstimates) - c.1,400 users in a room, 800 are anonymous, 400 are grey, the remainder split out amongst the coliours and roughly 10 guys have tipped

 

[SMuser69]

It's the new business model of revenue generation, just like in "free-to-play" games. If a site has free registration and no "requirement" to tip, then why do people even use the term "freeloader"? People download and play free-to-play games without ever spending a penny on any given game, but in any given free-to-play game, the other players don't have a clue who supports the developers, and who does not. But, the game developers sure do know. Can you imagine what would happen if a game developer "outed" players for being "freeloaders" to other players? At the end of the day, all the game developer can do is hope that the "conversion ratio" of free players to "paying players" is enough to keep the game afloat. In F2P games, that conversion factor is statistically between 3-5 percent, and of that 3-5 percent, less than .1 percent are whales, but the important thing here is that the whales help keep the developer afloat.

It's no different with adult sites who employ free registration. They are counting on the fact that a percentage of users will convert from free users to paying members, and a certain percentage of those converted members will be considered "whales". I don't know the conversion stats on adult sites, but it has to be good enough for sites like MFC and CB to stay afloat for as long as they have. I guess it's a pet peeve of mine whenever I hear someone use the term "freeloader" when talking about users on sites that employ this type of business model. But, I think most successful models on these sites have figured out it's up to them to build a following of regulars. Most of them know, or should know, that the site is just the venue.

My point is sitting in SM free chat isn't going to get you anywhere since models will not be nude or performing in it. The 'freeloader' isn't just a non paying member it's a non-paying member mooching paid content from another members spending. There are much more rare cases this can be accomplished on a pvt based site like SM or Jasemine.

 

[zoober]

My point is sitting in SM free chat isn't going to get you anywhere since models will not be nude or performing in it. The 'freeloader' isn't just a non paying member it's a non-paying member mooching paid content from another members spending. There are much more rare cases this can be accomplished on a pvt based site like SM or Jasemine.

Sitting in free chat on chaturbate can get you plenty. You have the obvious tension there, which is the top models focus on the public shows, so unless they switch to "crazy ticket" - there's no need to tip for anything and you'll see it all.

more generally, you got that tension of models typically want to hit public goals/stick to public shows, but the majority make most of their money doing privates, wherein all kinds of mad shit can happen/be asked for

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Games, once released, are (mostly) a source of passive income. Camming is not. Performers have to keep constantly working to continue earning. People who design F2P games are done once they release. It's unlikely that anyone is going to complain about freeloaders when they aren't actively working on that income source anymore. Probably why you don't hear clip producers speaking about freeloaders as much.

 

[Lucid1]

Games, once released, are (mostly) a source of passive income. Camming is not. Performers have to keep constantly working to continue earning. People who design F2P games are done once they release. It's unlikely that anyone is going to complain about freeloaders when they aren't actively working on that income source anymore. Probably why you don't hear clip producers speaking about freeloaders as much.

Oh yes, I understand your point, but I think you missed mine. I made the correlation between free-to-play games and "free" camsites like MFC because that is how they are marketed. Both rely on a conversion factor in order to be profitable. The difference is that the conversion factor on a site such as MFC relies on the model's ability to provide that conversion, whereas F2P games rely on design elements to coerce people into spending. So if the conversion factor for a site like MFC mimics the 3-5 percent rate of F2P games, that means there are a boatload(95-97%) of people who will never spend a dime on either, especially since they are marketed as "free", so the issue isn't whether to label the 95-97% as freeloaders, but whether or not a model has issues converting her own "free users" into paying members.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Oh yes, I understand your point, but I think you missed mine. I made the correlation between free-to-play games and "free" camsites like MFC because that is how they are marketed. Both rely on a conversion factor in order to be profitable. The difference is that the conversion factor on a site such as MFC relies on the model's ability to provide that conversion, whereas F2P games rely on design elements to coerce people into spending. So if the conversion factor for a site like MFC mimics the 3-5 percent rate of F2P games, that means there are a boatload(95-97%) of people who will never spend a dime on either, especially since they are marketed as "free", so the issue isn't whether to label the 95-97% as freeloaders, but whether or not a model has issues converting her own "free users" into paying members.

The reason I explained my thinking as to why models talk about freeloaders is because...

It's the new business model of revenue generation, just like in "free-to-play" games. If a site has free registration and no "requirement" to tip, then why do people even use the term "freeloader"? People download and play free-to-play games without ever spending a penny on any given game, but in any given free-to-play game, the other players don't have a clue who supports the developers, and who does not. But, the game developers sure do know. Can you imagine what would happen if a game developer "outed" players for being "freeloaders" to other players?

you asked why. I am not saying you are wrong, I think we can each be correct in our statements, they are not contradicting at all.

 

[heybarkeep]

Games, once released, are (mostly) a source of passive income. Camming is not. Performers have to keep constantly working to continue earning. People who design F2P games are done once they release.

Not completely accurate. Gotta keep adding updates and new skinner box bullshit for people to work towards or buy. Free to play games, in general, are updated much more often than your traditional retail bought games. Most blow too in my opinion due to the setup. Although I will admit, with great shame and an unsureness as to why exactly, to enjoying Paladins more than Overwatch.

 

[Smores]

It's the new business model of revenue generation, just like in "free-to-play" games. If a site has free registration and no "requirement" to tip, then why do people even use the term "freeloader"? People download and play free-to-play games without ever spending a penny on any given game, but in any given free-to-play game, the other players don't have a clue who supports the developers, and who does not. But, the game developers sure do know. Can you imagine what would happen if a game developer "outed" players for being "freeloaders" to other players? At the end of the day, all the game developer can do is hope that the "conversion ratio" of free players to "paying players" is enough to keep the game afloat. In F2P games, that conversion factor is statistically between 3-5 percent, and of that 3-5 percent, less than .1 percent are whales, but the important thing here is that the whales help keep the developer afloat.

It's no different with adult sites who employ free registration. They are counting on the fact that a percentage of users will convert from free users to paying members, and a certain percentage of those converted members will be considered "whales". I don't know the conversion stats on adult sites, but it has to be good enough for sites like MFC and CB to stay afloat for as long as they have. I guess it's a pet peeve of mine whenever I hear someone use the term "freeloader" when talking about users on sites that employ this type of business model. But, I think most successful models on these sites have figured out it's up to them to build a following of regulars. Most of them know, or should know, that the site is just the venue.

While the comparison to free to play games is interesting, it is not an exact analogy because in a F2P game the person who pays gets a different - and more valuable - experience than the person who plays for free. Unfortunately, in a public webcam room, the "freeloaders" are getting exactly the same value as the tippers once a goal is reached for a public show. At many levels this is simply not fair, to either those who tipped or to the performer.

It is also worth pointing out, as I did in this thread, that some sites like CB are making advertising revenue from "freeloaders" and then not sharing that with the performer. So the website is compensated for freeloaders, whereas the performer is not. Ironically, it is CB that is providing the performer with important tools - like CrazyTicket - to help overcome freeloading, whereas sites like MFC do not appear to get compensated for freeloaders, but MFC also does not give the performer any good tools to create fixed price shows to innovate around this issue.

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

Heckova interesting approach (the F2P comparison), though with that I'd say F2P does involve selling your attention/time to increasingly invasive ads. For me camming offers a great test case for both the importance of and limitations of "rational" individualistic behaviour,. most obviously the free-rider problem.

A live CB example right now (guesstimates) - c.1,400 users in a room, 800 are anonymous, 400 are grey, the remainder split out amongst the coliours and roughly 10 guys have tipped

A lot of popular free to play games don't rely on ads for revenue but micro transactions. A couple of examples on this are World of Tanks, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, DOTA 2 and of course League of Legends to name a few. On mobile the situation is a bit different since they have ads, but the even there a majority of a games income is made from micro transactions were they rely on a small percentage of the player base to buy stuff. A good example of a mobile developer who makes a lot of money through micro transactions are Super Cell who made Clash of Clans and Clash Royale.

Games, once released, are (mostly) a source of passive income. Camming is not. Performers have to keep constantly working to continue earning. People who design F2P games are done once they release. It's unlikely that anyone is going to complain about freeloaders when they aren't actively working on that income source anymore. Probably why you don't hear clip producers speaking about freeloaders as much.

The trend in games now days seem to keep on monetizing the player base after launch through various micro transactions and this goes for both free to play games and regular games. Take Two who is the publisher for GTA V have been said to make over $500 million a year from selling Shark cards that give you in game currency for GTA V's online portion. Then we have the free to play games who's entire business model is to create and sell new stuff to the player base, if the game fails to do so it gets closed down like Battlefield Heroes. I have personally spent around a $1000 on buying stuff in Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm. If the developers hadn't kept on updating the games and adding stuff I would probably have spent only a twentieth of that.

The reasons that free to play game developers don't complain about "freeloaders" are that they need them to fill out the player base otherwise the people who pay money for content in the games won't have enough people to play against and there is no point in buying content for a dead game. Some of those nonpaying players might also be converted to paying ones if they start to feel that they want to support the game by buying content for it.One of the most important things when you sell stuff is to convert people into customers because if you have sold something to someone once they are more likely to buy from you again. That is why in Heroes of The Storm you are able to buy a Welcome bundle that gives you some stuff that has good value cheaply and why some models on MFC offers a new tipper video to for a fraction of the cost of a normal video.

I will definitely enjoy a whale when i have one but I push myself to make sure that my income % is coming from as wide a pool of people as possible. That way if i lose someone, I will be stable.

This is good advice for anyone in any type of business.