Non-voluntary models?

[Parsnippy]

I understand this is a bit of an uncomfortable question, but occasionally I see a model and can't help but wonder if they're there on their own accord of it there's someone behind the camera or in the other room forcing them to go on cam.

I'm sorry if this is in any way offensive to MFC, I'm not making any accusations. I'm just curious about the subject. What sort of steps does MFC take to ensure this doesn't happen? Do you think there are some models who are not on cam voluntarily?


Once again, I know this is a sensitive topic, and if I've committed a tabboo of any kind please say so and I'll try to rectify my mistake.

 

[SoTxBob]

well, to answer some of your question, yes it does happen ... In the time I've been on mfc, I have become acquainted with several that had the pimp in the room with them frequently. IDk what mfc specifically could have done simply BC it was in the eastern block countries and the girls usually work a handful of sites simultaneously. MFC isn't a rescue operation, so other than deleting the account, what could they do? Sadly, this is part of the world wide sex industry and not all are willing participants.

 

[JoleneBrody]

This is an unfortunate truth. Luckily it is not nearly as prevalent as happy cam girls who love what they do.

 

[inkydoo]

Months ago (I don't really recall how many exactly), I came across a situation where this seemed to be the case. Two "new model" rooms showed up at the same time, both had all-caps names, extremely similar profiles, and while it wasn't obvious at first, it became clear they were in the same room (that is, it wasn't a case where roomies both decided to try MFC together with separate accounts). Watching the behavior of both models, and noticing that each of them had a female "handler" who were doing most or all of the typing, while the models themselves seemed kind of out of it or uninterested, made me pretty suspicious. When one of the handlers actually started undressing one of the models, it became a bit more obvious, and I pretty quickly decided to email the MFC admins. It's hard to explain, but all my warning bells were going off, and I have very little doubt that at least one of the two models was not there by choice.

I (of course) didn't get any response from MFC, but within a day or two, both models were gone (profiles removed). So, I don't really know what happened, and as Bob said, it's hard to imagine that the situation improved for the actual girls, but it does seem like MFC at least took the situation seriously (or maybe it was just a coincidence and I'm enough of an idealist to perceive it as intentional).

Still makes me sad and angry to think about it...

 

[Mfcwatchdog]

I've had that impression to.Some models are being forced todo sexual actions just for the money that probably (99% sure here) is not going to her anyway.When i see things like this i feel sorry for the poor girl i mean anybody in the adult sector who doesn't do it by choice wil not enjoy it.I'm afraid there isn't much those models or MFC (besides closing the accounts) can do.In here being forced todo sexual actions is illegal and can bring you to jail.I have the impression things like this most likely happen in verry poor countries(Bulgaria,Hongaria,Russia,Ukraine and the more "asian" countries).Nothing we can do about it except feel sorry for the abused girls.

 

[CassieRamone]

this makes me really sad, i dont suppose theres anything we could do to help these poor girls but i feel horrible for them. :/ aww. i feel like im super naive to have never thought about some of the euro "studio girls" being forced to be there...

Months ago (I don't really recall how many exactly), I came across a situation where this seemed to be the case. Two "new model" rooms showed up at the same time, both had all-caps names, extremely similar profiles, and while it wasn't obvious at first, it became clear they were in the same room (that is, it wasn't a case where roomies both decided to try MFC together with separate accounts). Watching the behavior of both models, and noticing that each of them had a female "handler" who were doing most or all of the typing, while the models themselves seemed kind of out of it or uninterested, made me pretty suspicious. When one of the handlers actually started undressing one of the models, it became a bit more obvious, and I pretty quickly decided to email the MFC admins. It's hard to explain, but all my warning bells were going off, and I have very little doubt that at least one of the two models was not there by choice.

I (of course) didn't get any response from MFC, but within a day or two, both models were gone (profiles removed). So, I don't really know what happened, and as Bob said, it's hard to imagine that the situation improved for the actual girls, but it does seem like MFC at least took the situation seriously (or maybe it was just a coincidence and I'm enough of an idealist to perceive it as intentional).

Still makes me sad and angry to think about it...

 

[Red7227]

In some countries the idea of internet is still a novelty, so the studios cover the infrastructure costs while the girls do the work. It is a business and the girls can suffer for it, but it is often the only form or income they have outside of prostitution.

 

[LindseyDoll]

I would say the best way to avoid supporting this kind of thing is to only tip models who seem to be enjoying themselves. If they can't make any money that way, hopefully, they won't have a reason to exploit those women.

 

[LilyMarie]

verry poor countries(Bulgaria,Hongaria,Russia,Ukraine (...)

some of the euro "studio girls" (...)

I'm sure this sort of thing happens much more often in Asian countries. I can't imagine that nowadays you can still force a European girl to do work she doesn't want to do. I think the studios in Romania are just doing a really good job attracting models, that's why there are so many of them.
IMO most of the Romanian/Bulgarian look bored, they don't look like they're suffering or are being held there against their will. They can probably imagine having nicer jobs, but don't have the opportunity to do them or get a higher education and that is bad of course.

 

[LadyLuna]

Come to think of it, wasn't forced modelling one of the big reasons MFC closed the "asian" homepage (where the Philippians were?)

 

[Erragal]

In some countries the idea of internet is still a novelty, so the studios cover the infrastructure costs while the girls do the work. It is a business and the girls can suffer for it, but it is often the only form or income they have outside of prostitution.

When I was in the navy I was on the west cost and over seas I seen this a lot. Women there are a item not a person, you see family's sell their daughters into prostitution to help support the family.

In most the Europe countries I don't think it's as bad like LilyMarie said there isn't someone sitting there forcing them to but for many that's the only kind of work they can find. I have also noticed this but can't confirm it some of the new models in the USA are like that. They can't find a job or need more income so this is really the only thing that can turn to.

 

[sweetiebatman]

I think its important to make a distinction between being physically forced to Cam and being forced by circumstance (i.e poverty) to Cam. Whilst I believe that in some cases one may lead to the other I don't think in the majority that girls are being physically forced into it (although im sure it has and sadly will again happen)

The reason, I believe that the studios do so well in the "second world countries" like the former Soviet Republics and in Asia is they offer jobs and a wage in countries with awful economies. Im comparison to "First world" the models are getting ripped off hand over fist but in these countries the pittance they get might be enough to get by

Does this make it right? Hell No

 

[TashaDutch]

verry poor countries(Bulgaria,Hongaria,Russia,Ukraine (...)

some of the euro "studio girls" (...)

I'm sure this sort of thing happens much more often in Asian countries. I can't imagine that nowadays you can still force a European girl to do work she doesn't want to do. I think the studios in Romania are just doing a really good job attracting models, that's why there are so many of them.
IMO most of the Romanian/Bulgarian look bored, they don't look like they're suffering or are being held there against their will. They can probably imagine having nicer jobs, but don't have the opportunity to do them or get a higher education and that is bad of course.

thats not entirely true.. i used to know a few czech models from one site.. and they introduced me to their life...
internet and computers are still not a regular thing to have in countries like czech-romania etc. if you make 1 euro a hour in the supermarket.. but 10 webcamming (its really just 10 yes).. ofcourse that starts off as an amazing oppertunity.. but most internet porn sites are blocked in those countries, and prostitution is illegal..
therefor starting off working in porn is a huuuge step over there.. but staying in it... is almost needed..

there are no laws for companies about how to work over there... (most goverments deny the excistence of studio's and such)
ofcourse i cant claim to KNOW alot of studio's in eastern europe are connected to criminal organisations.. but sex atracts criminals.. even our amsterdam red-light district is filled with it..

i know some stories about high earning models who would try to leave their studio.. and beeing beaten back into their cam rooms..
also the privacy and work ethics are pretty much non-existent.. most studio's take huge advantage of that...
i assume if these girls who go to the police.. there would be alot of bribing and it would all just be denied.. but i think to some extend you could say girls working for studio's like this are 'forced'

beeing in a triple A european country makes most people think things like this only happen in asian countries.. but be sure it happens everywhere... even in our own countries...

truth is.. porn sites dont really bother to check for stuff like this... and if they did.. they wouldnt be able to do much about it.. since alot of them are in the states..
kinda like trowing away food while children in africa are starving.. the dark side of the world...
its fucked up to think about it.. and it shouldnt be allowed.. but i think the only solution to that is to shut down the possibility to have studio accounts on sites like mfc.. which would never happen cause the money is just too good :?

 

[dustinxxxizzle]

I found out that a girl I go private with regularly works for/in a studio or whatever. When she told me that she was in a studio with another girl previousl,y I thought she was just referring to living with another girl, but apparently she gets some of her income taken. I'm like 99% certain she is American. She seems like an awesome, normal girl who just needs some cash, but the studio thing made me wonder. Doubt she's being coerced or anything. I didn't know studios like this even existed in the States!

 

[LadyLuna]

I found out that a girl I go private with regularly works for/in a studio or whatever. When she told me that she was in a studio with another girl previousl,y I thought she was just referring to living with another girl, but apparently she gets some of her income taken. I'm like 99% certain she is American. She seems like an awesome, normal girl who just needs some cash, but the studio thing made me wonder. Doubt she's being coerced or anything. I didn't know studios like this even existed in the States!

They are useful for the girls who don't know anything about computers and don't have a geeky friend to help them with such things.

Also useful for girls who can't afford their own computer/internet, or can't cam at home for some other reason.

Any other situation, they are definitely a rip-off.

 

[RedHerby1]

IMO most of the Romanian/Bulgarian look bored, they don't look like they're suffering or are being held there against their will. They can probably imagine having nicer jobs, but don't have the opportunity to do them or get a higher education and that is bad of course.

beeing in a triple A european country makes most people think things like this only happen in asian countries.. but be sure it happens everywhere... even in our own countries... ?

indeed, prostitution in west europe is for a big part based on human trafficking, the same criminal organisations in eastern europe that are the delivering parties are also involved in the cam studio business.

ACF is focused on independent US models working at MFC, below a forum with information about eastern europe studios.

http://camgirlnotes.15.forumer.com/inde ... owforum=30

 

[Jupiter551]

I've never seen European studio girls who appear to be 'forced' or held against their will - which isn't saying it doesn't happen - but I've never seen it.

 

[tenendermen]

I for one would much rather know that my tokens are going to a girl to help her out with what ever she needs the money for.

The girls working for somebody else, is hard for me to justify spending the tokens on.

I'm a pretty compassionate guy and one time I asked a girl if a guy was working the computer for her and the cam turned off.

I was banned. Feeling kinda confused, I hoped I didn't make things worse for her by asking that. So I now avoid sketchy rooms like the plague.

 

[BiancaBrazil]

It is beyond me why a guy would spend money to give another guy a good lifestyle. That's exactly what you are doing when you spend on girls who work for studios. You are feeding a pimp, buying him his sports cars while the model barely scrapes by on what the pimp pays her.

 

[Just Me]

It is beyond me why a guy would spend money to give another guy a good lifestyle. That's exactly what you are doing when you spend on girls who work for studios. You are feeding a pimp, buying him his sports cars while the model barely scrapes by on what the pimp pays her.

How is that different from what MFC or any camsite is doing? Both are providing services to enable the model to make money. I certainly do not condone the studios acting as another middle man, but many of the models do not have much choice if they don't have access to the equipment, the internet or still live with their family. Throwing the baby out with the bath water, does not make a lot of sense. If the model is being coerced or the studio is taking all of the money the model makes you might have a point.

 

[LadyLuna]

How is that different from what MFC or any camsite is doing?

I agree with most everything you said, hence the thanks, but... this I gotta point something out.

The website takes a cut, and gives the rest to the owner of the account.

The studio then takes a cut on top of the website's cut. Except, they usually take a percentage of total earnings, not a percentage of the model's cut.

So, if the site offers 5 cents a token, model working for the studio will get 3 cents a token.
If the site offers the model a 35% cut, the model working for the studio will end up with a 25% (or less) cut.

Basically, the difference is, the website offers things that are really difficult for the average person to get (decent streaming, anon status, advertising), while the physical studio offers things that are relatively easy for MOST people to get (a location to cam, equipment for camming, and tech support). Most is highlighted because I understand that a lot of people can't get it, but it's still less than 50% of the population, especially in the US (though the way the economy has been, I wouldn't be surprised if that changes in the next few years). The only thing an online studio offers is better placement on the camsite, which isn't worth the loss of 10% off the top of the earnings.

 

[Just Me]

How is that different from what MFC or any camsite is doing?

I agree with most everything you said, hence the thanks, but... this I gotta point something out.

The website takes a cut, and gives the rest to the owner of the account.

The studio then takes a cut on top of the website's cut. Except, they usually take a percentage of total earnings, not a percentage of the model's cut.

So, if the site offers 5 cents a token, model working for the studio will get 3 cents a token.
If the site offers the model a 35% cut, the model working for the studio will end up with a 25% (or less) cut.

Basically, the difference is, the website offers things that are really difficult for the average person to get (decent streaming, anon status, advertising), while the physical studio offers things that are relatively easy for MOST people to get (a location to cam, equipment for camming, and tech support). Most is highlighted because I understand that a lot of people can't get it, but it's still less than 50% of the population, especially in the US (though the way the economy has been, I wouldn't be surprised if that changes in the next few years). The only thing an online studio offers is better placement on the camsite, which isn't worth the loss of 10% off the top of the earnings.

I am somewhat familiar with how some studios work. Some of the models I have talked to claim it would be impossible for them to work without the studio. Of course these are models in other countries. Are there studios in the US? I suppose there must be but I have yet to run into a model from North America that has said she is with a studio or even one that appears to work for a studio.

My main point to BiancaBrazil's post was that, while not ideal, the studios actually offer someone a chance to work. To not tip them just because someone else besides MFC was making money on their work seems counter productive. With the money they do earn from the studio they might be able to better their situation and cam for themselves. Whatever the percentage they make from the studio it is better than nothing.

 

[LadyLuna]

How is that different from what MFC or any camsite is doing?

I agree with most everything you said, hence the thanks.... (insert rest of quote here)

...

My main point to BiancaBrazil's post was that, while not ideal, the studios actually offer someone a chance to work. To not tip them just because someone else besides MFC was making money on their work seems counter productive. With the money they do earn from the studio they might be able to better their situation and cam for themselves. Whatever the percentage they make from the studio it is better than nothing.

Point was taken and agreed with. I was just answering the "what's the difference" part of your post

 

[dustinxxxizzle]

I am somewhat familiar with how some studios work. Some of the models I have talked to claim it would be impossible for them to work without the studio. Of course these are models in other countries. Are there studios in the US? I suppose there must be but I have yet to run into a model from North America that has said she is with a studio or even one that appears to work for a studio.

My main point to BiancaBrazil's post was that, while not ideal, the studios actually offer someone a chance to work. To not tip them just because someone else besides MFC was making money on their work seems counter productive. With the money they do earn from the studio they might be able to better their situation and cam for themselves. Whatever the percentage they make from the studio it is better than nothing.

Yes, as I posted above, I am a regular of a girl in the US that revealed that she works in a studio with another girl. I think her situation is such that she can't comfortably cam at home for whatever reason, so she works for the studio. I was still surprised that something like this existed in the US, but I'm happy it is there because I really going private with her!

 

[LittleMonica]

Two months ago, I was perving with some regulars on other models´room when we came across with a girl from Philipines. I told them that it would be awesome if we could tip her 1000 tokens between all of us.

When we started making it rain, this girl seemed extremely happy and could not believe it. One of the guys, stayed talking with her and then came back to my room and told us to read what she was telling him. According to this girl, she was in a studio "forced" and they would pay her 50 dollars every 2 weeks if she made more than that.

I contacted support next day. I have not seen that girl again, maybe is a coincidence, maybe not.

 

[ComicOzzie]

Two months ago, I was perving with some regulars on other models´room when we came across with a girl from Philipines. I told them that it would be awesome if we could tip her 1000 tokens between all of us.

When we started making it rain, this girl seemed extremely happy and could not believe it. One of the guys, stayed talking with her and then came back to my room and told us to read what she was telling him. According to this girl, she was in a studio "forced" and they would pay her 50 dollars every 2 weeks if she made more than that.

I contacted support next day. I have not seen that girl again, maybe is a coincidence, maybe not.

Shit like this is why MFC closed the Asian page, along with most of the Asian model accounts.

 

[AlexLady]

...actually, from what I saw, they closed the Asian page because in many countries it's illegal for them to cam. That, and they kept re-using ID's. The Asians gave themselves a bad name too by doing horrible shows and always breaking the rules.




The worst "forced" girl I ever saw was on a beat up matrices on the dirt with an old ragy blanket as a backdrop. One of those kids walked on cam staring at the camera; the skinny boy looked like something from a documentary. The camera was muted and you could see the shadow of a hand pointing; the camera man was probably telling her what to do. She obviously wasn't the one typing, either.

This was when I was new to camming, so I didn't think to take screenshots.

The world has some pretty scary places in it...

 

[ScarlettLeigh]

The worst "forced" girl I ever saw was on a beat up matrices on the dirt with an old ragy blanket as a backdrop. One of those kids walked on cam staring at the camera; the skinny boy looked like something from a documentary. The camera was muted and you could see the shadow of a hand pointing; the camera man was probably telling her what to do. She obviously wasn't the one typing, either.

This was when I was new to camming, so I didn't think to take screenshots.

The world has some pretty scary places in it...

I shudder to think what her life is like.

 

[hornygods]

It's much like human trafficking, except within the more gray areas of the law. I do wonder if the humility of being watched by abusive members makes it even worse. I'd imagine it would.

 

[Vanessa Jade]

It's much like human trafficking, except within the more gray areas of the law. I do wonder if the humility of being watched by abusive members makes it even worse. I'd imagine it would.

I'm sure it does. It can be borderline (or way over the border, depending on the "quality" of your viewers) degrading at times even for those of us who love what we do and do it because we love it.