My Non-Nude Rant :P

[dilligaf0]

Why not list all the situations where you don't get nude online in your profile, and if anyone asks dumb questions, just refer them to your profile. If they continue, ban and mute them.

Because most of those people don't bother to read profiles.

 

[Nordling]

Because most of those people don't bother to read profiles.

Oh, true, and they don't have to. But once the model refers them TO her profile to answer specific questions, she no longer has to suffer their continued interrogation--she then has a perfectly legitimate reason to ban them, mute them and move on.

 

[BobbyB]

Oh, true, and they don't have to. But once the model refers them TO her profile to answer specific questions, she no longer has to suffer their continued interrogation--she then has a perfectly legitimate reason to ban them, mute them and move on.

I would make a nice card " Read The Fucking Profile " and just show the card .....no talking needed...

 

[CrazyCatLady]

No matter what people are going to push push push. This isn't exclusive to your nudity status. This is just the nature of the job.

You show more "nudity" than other popular non nude models...I don't think they find it "offensive" for you to label yourself non nude. In fact one top model I have never seen her any anything less than a dress.

I also don't think members pay attention to tags....especially once they are in your room. I think they see you say that you won't do something and they get off on trying to "prove" you will.

I have listed "don't call me bibi" in HUGE font on my profile. I get called bibi no less than 10 times a day. So I started muting myself every time someone calls me bibi. As soon as I mute myself I start typing "mmmm sexy font bibi....show token bibi" I basically just annoy them with their own crap. Lol. Maybe something similar will help? Or just respond "I'm never nude...ever" if they keep on ban them. Done. Problem solved.

 

[GingerWifey]

I like to think I'm along the lines of implied-nudity; sometimes I will be naked, but never in an 'explicit' nature. I use the non-nude tag almost as a safety net. I find that it is a lot easier to find the right members this way, as the people who are put off by a non-nude tag don't generally seem to enjoy my shows or always pester for more nudity.

I think that identifying as non-nude allows me to be more relaxed in my shows which, in turn, makes them better for the audience. I'm not sure if I'm wrong for using it to describe my style, but often it is the most understood term for it.

And I'm pretty sure 99% those who ask the 'do you get nude in x,y,z scenario?' are just chancers!

 

[AnneDVille]

When I started camming nearly a year ago I was wearing a wig and wouldn't even show a nipple. Things may have changed a touch. But personally I hate labels. I don't identify myself as a non-nude. I identify myself as Cartman:



And personally I don't get your rant. I really really don't. People will ask those questions and people will ask where you're from and they will also ask if you escort. There are models out there who used to be very naked and now they are not, same as there are models out there who used to not be naked and now they are. And both groups deserve as much respect for their work. I personally found your comments a touch offending underneath the sugar coating. I know it was probably not meant as offending, as you were sugar coating, but it was.

Welcome to the land of camming! Enjoy your success and ignore the idiots. Done

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I would make a nice card " Read The Fucking Profile " and just show the card .....no talking needed...

Yes, great idea. That's never been thought of before.

 

[BobbyB]

Yes, great idea. That's never been thought of before.

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OK I see your point..

 

[Boog]

I agree with most of whats already been said but there was one quote that pretty much sums up my experiences:

A member can never assume he/ she knows a model until they do.

Though I'd personally end it at 'a member can never assume he/she knows a model'

I don't specifically seek out non-nude models since that usually ends in me being frustrated, but I've gone private with a number of 'non-nudes' who ended up showing more during our session. I've also been on the other side sitting in public wondering why the labeled non-nude model constantly gets exclusive/true private sessions, (one I'm thinking of specifically often complained about slow nights and turned out to be limiting nudity to certain high tippers). Its true a lot of guys get satisfaction from successfully pushing your boundaries but I at least learned that I can't really trust a profile or model tags at face value. Feel free to refer to your profile then warn/ban afterwards though, imo once you tell someone straight up that you are non-nude, additional questions are just them being annoying. Or possibly stick it in your profile, very few reasons to deny knowing if its in the profile.

 

[dilligaf0]

Oh, true, and they don't have to. But once the model refers them TO her profile to answer specific questions, she no longer has to suffer their continued interrogation--she then has a perfectly legitimate reason to ban them, mute them and move on.

Maybe MFC could program the system so they have to read a model's profile before they can get in the room (like an admission fee, but no money).

 

[Empress Mika]

Thank you everyone for your responses. It certainly has given me a lot to think about! For example, I haven't heard of the never-nude vs non-nude before. I also never considered that the definition of non-nude as indeed changing and evolving, especially for each individual model. Nor the fact that it can be used as a "safety net" so to speak in another example given. At first, I wished that there was a standard, industry-wide definition of "non-nude" to ease my frustration. However, reading these responses has expanded my understanding of the topic where I am no longer frustrated by it, haha. So, thank you!

And personally I don't get your rant. I really really don't. People will ask those questions and people will ask where you're from and they will also ask if you escort. There are models out there who used to be very naked and now they are not, same as there are models out there who used to not be naked and now they are. And both groups deserve as much respect for their work. I personally found your comments a touch offending underneath the sugar coating. I know it was probably not meant as offending, as you were sugar coating, but it was.
Welcome to the land of camming! Enjoy your success and ignore the idiots. Done

One thing I love about these forums is to be able to share information as well as to share opinions and frustrations and then obtain feedback from it from other members in the caming community. That is what I tried to do here, as well. I apologize that you seem to have read my rant as "sugar coating" something maliciously intended and were thus offended by it. I can assure you that I did not intend that at all and I certainly respect everyone and do my very best to show that.

Again, thank you everyone! ^_^

 

[Leon_Omega]

I haven't heard of the never-nude vs non-nude before. I also never considered that the definition of non-nude as indeed changing and evolving, especially for each individual model.

And to make this all even more confusing, I know of at least one model I've see who used the nevernude tag and still got topless.

In fact, I've known several models who considered "non-nude" to mean "I keep my panties on" and would happily go topless.

And then there's the one who got what I refer to as "model in a British lad mag nude" where she'd get fully naked, but kept the goods "covered" by creative use of objects and camera angles.

Ambiguity in language can be fascinating and frustrating at the same time.

 

[TacoBelle]

@Miqote I worry that some of those viewers who are so persistent about asking even after you've said no might be cause they saw a "review" of you that said you show more in private. I'm obviously not going to link to it here, but PM me for details.

These members usually think they can get away with more or convince you to do more for the right amount of tokens. It sucks. All you can do is keep shutting them down, ban if necessary, and remove any evidence that supports the notion or implies that you do show more than fully-covered skin.

 

[Empress Mika]

And to make this all even more confusing, I know of at least one model I've see who used the nevernude tag and still got topless.

In fact, I've known several models who considered "non-nude" to mean "I keep my panties on" and would happily go topless.

And then there's the one who got what I refer to as "model in a British lad mag nude" where she'd get fully naked, but kept the goods "covered" by creative use of objects and camera angles.

Ambiguity in language can be fascinating and frustrating at the same time.

I agree, it's very confusing! XD But! Every girl will have her own version of it soooooo ^_^

@Miqote I worry that some of those viewers who are so persistent about asking even after you've said no might be cause they saw a "review" of you that said you show more in private. I'm obviously not going to link to it here, but PM me for details.

These members usually think they can get away with more or convince you to do more for the right amount of tokens. It sucks. All you can do is keep shutting them down, ban if necessary, and remove any evidence that supports the notion or implies that you do show more than fully-covered skin.

Thank you for letting me know about this ^_^ I will surely check this out!

 

[TacoBelle]

I just wanted to clarify that I misunderstood Miqote's post originally. I thought she meant that she was completely non-nude in every aspect (public, private, group, videos, pictures, etc), and that it bothered her how other models claim to be NN when they do, in fact, get naked in some form. However, she has explained to me that that is not the case. The OP might occasionally decide to get naked in group or private, but she covers all "the goods" with hands or body parts.

Personally, I don't think you should claim to be non-nude if you get naked (even in tasteful or stealthy ways), just because you might miss out on potential regulars. However, if you say that you occasionally "tease to nude" in group/private, then they might stick around. Regardless, do what makes you happy and don't let anyone try to force you to do things you don't want.

I just wanted to clarify in case I might not be the only one who thought that OP was frustrated with other models claiming to be Non-Nude when they actually get naked. That just wouldn't make sense, cause then she'd be frustrated with herself! I hope that one day we can all move past the labeling entirely (although, yes, I understand the importance of it). New labeling system: Alien, Vulcan, Pirate, or Vampire:

 

[Coog]

I know models who have gone from full on public cumshows to non-nude and models who went entirely the other way and more still who flitted back and forth.

Yeah, some guys are trying to push the boundaries, there will always be some. Others might just be checking out what they will get for their tokens and some are probably just confused.

I always liked the term tease model, it's ambiguous as hell and will probably end with a load of questions but I think properly set out profile and tags will help those guys that do read profiles (Yes, there are some out there) and at worst case you can direct members there for answers.

 

[Mila_]

"Nude" and "non-nude" are not clinical categories. It is a spectrum. It goes from wearing a burqa to showing close ups of your buttcrack. I understand that getting questions can be frustrating but consider that we are all in different spots along a spectrum, and not many of us are on the extremes.

Consider how a true non-nude camgirl, the kind that doesn't even take her top off or wear cleavage (like Iris or Mara or Piper) feels towards someone who does implicit nudity and wear nothing but pasties and a thong on public chat. The pasties model feels that she is the true non-nude, but for one of the more modest ones, she would be the one misusing the word!

Then there are other things to take into account. There are true non-nudes who in spite of never taking so much as their top off, do beautiful agony shows or cum shows in public by rubbing themselves through their clothes. They can certainly call themselves "non-nude" and would be more right about it than the tame girl with the occasional slip. But the actions in her room are more similar to a hardcore model while the slip girl is closer to the non-nudes. See what I mean?

The way I see it, "non-nude" is not a term that is used in a strict way. It is used by models who feel their rooms and their vibes are sexually different from the vibes of most rooms. Some of these girls truly are non-nude. Others do nudity implicitly by covering certain parts with sheets, hands, or other objects, and there are also models who call themselves nude even though they do topless in public because the focus of their cam is more artistic than sexual and they do not do cum shows live. So "non-nude" really means "tame", "mild", "tease" or "artistic".

Personally I think we can divide this issue into 2 axis: sexuality and nudity. Explained on the chart I just made and posted below.

On the upper right quadrant we have models who are 100% non-nude, and who also do not use their sexuality in any way. Their rooms are about friendship, games, and chatter. Some of them even rule out romance altogether and talk freely about their SOs. Iris, Mara, and Piper are good examples.

On the lower right corner there are models who are completely clothed and yet do cum shows. Like Amelia. The last time I perved on her was over a year ago so things might have changed, but from my recollection that is how she ran her room. Dakota is close to her. She is 100% non-nude in public chat, but will talk dirty all night so she uses her sexuality heavily. In group she does slips, rubs, and BJs, but no cum shows and doesnt even take her bra off.

On the upper left corner there should be a model that does nudity freely but doesn't do anything sexual (no cum shows, no g/g shows, nothing of the sort) I dont know anyone like this because they don't interest me much, most of my time is spent on non-nude rooms. But if someone knows a model like this feel free to tell.

On the lower left corner we have models who use both nudity and sexuality with few limits. They do public cum shows, anal, sex machines, g/g, some have b/g videos for sale, etc. Most models fall on that quadrant.

Then there are a bunch of models in between who represent some qualities and yet they dont have others. It is very hard to place some of these girls on the chart. I did my best, but I probably made mistakes, feel free to point them out. Also if I used your name and you dislike being in the chart let me know and I will take the image down, I dont want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but figured that using examples would be best to illustrate my point. It is also great publicity should someone be looking for more non-nudes to follow, etc. Some model's names have changed, I used the one that stuck with me (such as mini, she goes by "serafina" now, but I loved her other name more)

Now... is it fair to call Dakota non-nude when she does sloppy BJs in group and not call Tesla non-nude because she ocassionally does a topless show in public or sells nude videos? If you are using "non-nude" in a strict sense, then yeah, Dakota is a non-nude while Tesla is not. But in reality Tesla's room is much more tame than Dakota's. So when a girl calls herself "non-nude" what she is talking about is "I am not the regular model, I am different" "I am artistic" or "I am a teaser" or "I dont do hardcore".

If we used "non-nude" strictly then we would have to use it to describe ONLY the girls who TRULY are non-nude, who don't even get naked "implicitly" such as Iris. And it would be a pointless word because it would describe exactly the 0.1% of models. It would be a useless term. We all use this term because it caught on.

If it bothers you to clarify, don't do it! Why don't you tell them something mysterious? Tell them "stay here and find out" or "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas". They will bother you less if you stop replying to their questions directly, and it is more fun both for you and your members.

 

[Empress Mika]

I just wanted to clarify that I misunderstood Miqote's post originally. I thought she meant that she was completely non-nude in every aspect (public, private, group, videos, pictures, etc), and that it bothered her how other models claim to be NN when they do, in fact, get naked in some form. However, she has explained to me that that is not the case. The OP might occasionally decide to get naked in group or private, but she covers all "the goods" with hands or body parts.

Personally, I don't think you should claim to be non-nude if you get naked (even in tasteful or stealthy ways), just because you might miss out on potential regulars. However, if you say that you occasionally "tease to nude" in group/private, then they might stick around. Regardless, do what makes you happy and don't let anyone try to force you to do things you don't want.

I just wanted to clarify in case I might not be the only one who thought that OP was frustrated with other models claiming to be Non-Nude when they actually get naked. That just wouldn't make sense, cause then she'd be frustrated with herself! I hope that one day we can all move past the labeling entirely (although, yes, I understand the importance of it). New labeling system: Alien, Vulcan, Pirate, or Vampire:

Thank you, @I_Am_Iris ! I think all of this demonstrates what I really got out of this thread is that "non-nude" can mean completely different things to every individual model and every individual member. Thus making the clarifications a necessity. For me, I don't show any nudity and that's what being a non-nude model is to me. Personally, I didn't think a model should claim to be non-nude but still show nudity (as defined by nipples/vulva). That is my definition but I realize that there are other definitions out there for each model which is totally okay! However again, this thread has really opened up my mind to other perspectives and I now have a fuller understanding where I am not frustrated by it anymore.

So, again, thank you to everyone

So "non-nude" really means "tame", "mild", "tease" or "artistic".

Thank you for such a great, in-depth post! I really found the above statement to be especially true!

Again, this thread has really helped me from being frustrated about clarifying much of the time to completely happy and willing to clarify. Seriously, thank you all so much! ^_^

 

[yummybrownfox]

I don't think this is necessarily a non-nude model problem. Some dudes just try to push boundaries. It doesn't matter if you call yourself non-nude, quarter nude, softcore.... there will be people trying to push past your lines. Even the most hardcore models likely get an earful over the one or two things they choose not to do.

THIS. Anytime you speak about things that you DON'T/WON'T do (nudity...masturbation...public cum shows...PayPal for Skype...etc.), you're always gonna have that one person who's all "Aw, why not? That's a shame." I used to tell people "No, I don't do public cum shows," and some of them would assume that dangling their tokens in my face (or giving me a large tip and saying "There you go") would make me change my tune. Lol.

 

[Shaun__]

I admit to pushing boundaries in the past, but I am imperfect person. Is it wrong to ask? If I offer a model X amount of monies to do this or that am I a horrible person or just offering options in life to that model? Telling me no does not offend me or anything.

After two separate models both accused me of controlling them with money through tips when mad at me I am very reluctant to make any offers anymore, the more a model wants something the more I am afraid to offer help. I always thought of it the same as any other job. I get paid an okay wage, because only crazy people would work in the conditions I am expected to be in. Technically I am being controlled by my paycheck, I always just thought of it as the way things are. People offer you money to do things you do not want to do for free, unless you have a job you love of course.

 

[TacoBelle]

I admit to pushing boundaries in the past, but I am imperfect person. Is it wrong to ask? If I offer a model X amount of monies to do this or that am I a horrible person or just offering options in life to that model? Telling me no does not offend me or anything.

After two separate models both accused me of controlling them with money through tips when mad at me I am very reluctant to make any offers anymore, the more a model wants something the more I am afraid to offer help. I always thought of it the same as any other job. I get paid an okay wage, because only crazy people would work in the conditions I am expected to be in. Technically I am being controlled by my paycheck, I always just thought of it as the way things are. People offer you money to do things you do not want to do for free, unless you have a job you love of course.

I'm gonna be blunt here, Shaun. I think it depends on how you asked and if you were persistent about it. If you simply ask a girl whether she'll do XYZ or how much to do XYZ because you genuinely don't know, that's fine. If you continue to ask her after you know that she doesn't do it, then that's a douche move. If she says anything vague like, "I dunno! Maybe one day!" or "I never have, so I'm not sure." then feel free to ask again later. But if she deliberately says no, then don't push the issue. Asking again (even if you are willing to throw a huge tip to her for doing it) shows a complete lack of respect for her, in my opinion.

 

[Ambers Troll]

People offer you money to do things you do not want to do for free,....

I think this is a really good point about most work.

I will admit that pushing a model's boundaries is definitely entertaining. Seeing what someone will or will not do for tokens is such a big part of the game. I think for many models tokens can be a good excuse to drive themselves to be more entertaining too. Part of liking the work you do is going to that next level, as Nietzsche said the best views are from the highest mountains; the best things in life tend to take work/ pushing yourself.
Hopefully it is done with some respect, and a little empathy when the urge to push it comes from members.

 

[DrWangFei]

THIS. Anytime you speak about things that you DON'T/WON'T do (nudity...masturbation...public cum shows...PayPal for Skype...etc.), you're always gonna have that one person who's all "Aw, why not? That's a shame." I used to tell people "No, I don't do public cum shows," and some of them would assume that dangling their tokens in my face (or giving me a large tip and saying "There you go") would make me change my tune. Lol.

There's quite a few that disrespect models like that after they tell them "no" for whatever reasons. I've seen one guy who came into a group session, and asked (if I remember it was nicely) if she did certain things like nudity/masturbation/etc... was told no, he left. Months later this same guy comes back, asks the same question... gets same answer. Which was fine until he then said, "well, we all have to grow up sometime".
Some people just don't understand that models have limitations that they set for themselves, things that they feel comfortable/not comfortable doing... and it sucks that there's guys out there that cannot accept this and think that you should be doing whatever they think is best for you. I see it too much, "I think you should do this", "I think you would be great doing this", etc. Just let the model do what they want to do! /end my rant

 

[NerdieBirdie]

Something I noticed, when I was watching you tonight your topic said, "PLAY ME! ^_^ 10=BlackJack | Win=ClothingItemOff | Lose=ClothingItemOn | AllOff=Show | 100=Vid | 500=Club | HT(0)=Surprise"

I could see how a premium flipping through models could stumble across this and maybe think you'd be nude at some point. "AllOff=Show" could be interpreted as a show when naked. To your room, your regs, you, and people who read profiles, they'd understand that means lingerie, but someone passing through a site with mostly nude models could definitely assume that means nude. I agree that anyone watching your show for more than a few minutes would understand it means lingerie (which you did indicate in the time I was watching) but just trying to give some helpful insight. This may be why it happens. BUT I ALSO LOVE YOU AND THINK YOU ARE ADORABLE SO PLZ DON'T HATE ME. lol

 

[Empress Mika]

Something I noticed, when I was watching you tonight your topic said, "PLAY ME! ^_^ 10=BlackJack | Win=ClothingItemOff | Lose=ClothingItemOn | AllOff=Show | 100=Vid | 500=Club | HT(0)=Surprise"

I could see how a premium flipping through models could stumble across this and maybe think you'd be nude at some point. "AllOff=Show" could be interpreted as a show when naked. To your room, your regs, you, and people who read profiles, they'd understand that means lingerie, but someone passing through a site with mostly nude models could definitely assume that means nude. I agree that anyone watching your show for more than a few minutes would understand it means lingerie (which you did indicate in the time I was watching) but just trying to give some helpful insight. This may be why it happens. BUT I ALSO LOVE YOU AND THINK YOU ARE ADORABLE SO PLZ DON'T HATE ME. lol

I knowwww, it's the 140 character limit T_T_T_T_T!

I haven't had any inquiries lately, though, yey! ^_^ If I do, as I said, I'm not bothered by it anymore. Thank you all for your thoughtful posts! You have helped me so much!

 

[MayWolff]

if youre dressed up, cute and interactive of course theyregoing to ask, when its mainly a nude site, they expect it. just keep doing you and ignore the idiots haha