Middle School Mom: Censor 'Pornographic' Anne Frank

[Poker_Babe]

OK, I just read this short article, and I'm not quite sure how to feel about this yet... I was wondering what your guys' opinions are.

(Newser) – A Michigan mom is upset over the "pornographic" material her 7th-grade daughter was assigned to read: The Diary of Anne Frank. Gail Horalek made the porn comparison because, in the full and unedited version of the book, Frank writes about her genitalia, the Christian Post explains. Horalek filed a formal complaint with the school district, and says the school should remove the book, use the edited version, or at least have parents sign a permission slip before making kids read the unedited version. Fox 2 Detroit offers up the offending passage, which reads in part:

"What's even funnier is that I thought urine came out of the clitoris ... When you're standing up, all you see from the front is hair. Between your legs there are two soft, cushiony things, also covered with hair, which press together when you're standing, so you can't see what's inside. They separate when you sit down and they're very red and quite fleshy on the inside."

Horalek says she discovered the material when her daughter read it and told her mother it made her uncomfortable. "It doesn’t mean my child is sheltered, it doesn’t mean I live in a bubble, and it doesn’t mean I'm trying to ban books," Horalek tells the Northville Patch.

http://www.newser.com/story/167055/midd ... frank.html

 

[Nordling]

Maybe 7th grade is a bit young for The Diary of Anne Frank, even without that passage. I don't think we read it until senior high school. But whatever age is mature enough, I don't like the idea of censoring it.

 

[GreatDane]

There are worse books out there that junior high / middle school students could read, The Diary of Anne Frank is relatively tame in comparison. Censorship in any form is wrong, saying that tho, there are more age appropriate selections. I find it amazing that in general, most parents would rather have their children read about war and killing and suspense over "PORN" most of the time.... Where does that make sense? I'd much rather have them thinking about a healthy life over how they are going to die in the middle of the night from night terrors :twocents-02cents:

 

[Alice_Biscuit]

Whaaaat? Where is the porn? I cannot see it. All I see is a girl writing about her biological curiosity about her own body. Porn, by definition, is gratuitous, and this is not. >.< Gahhhh I love books and it makes me angry when self-righteous people want to censor them!

 

[KaterinaPryde]

I never saw that passage when we read Anne Frank, so I guess we were already reading the censored version? We learned about and read TDAF when I was in 7th grade.... I loved it. I don't see any issues with just taking that one passage out, if that is the only one. I remember we had "sex ed" in 8th grade - a passage like that would have been met with ewwww GROSSSSSS and snickers. If they are in high school it should not be edited as it is surprisingly clinical sounding.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

She mentions she's not trying to ban books but complaining to school boards is exactly how books get that way. The list is full of classics because some people complained about something.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... ted_States

 

[mynameisbob84]

I feel sorry for the woman. If that's all it takes to make her "upset", then life must be both exhausting and throughly depressing for the poor girl.

 

[Sevrin]

This is what you get when studidity is rewarded in a society.

 

[Jillybean]

I'm kind of torn. The school is trying to teach the children what life was like for Anne Frank. That passage takes away from the book's atmosphere because it is about the vagina, and little boys will snicker and little girls will blush and they will all feel uncomfortable about it.

It's not a problem with the passage. It's a problem with how society makes kids feel about themselves. Children are curious, but if a parent catches a child being curious about their genitals, then that parent is very likely to discourage that curiosity. That leads to children getting uncomfortable about their genitals, and then stuff like this happens. A child reads about a girl discovering her down-there-area. That child doesn't know anything about it aside nobody talks about it. That child goes to their parent with questions about it, and possibly stating that it made them uncomfortable. Then, the parent gets angry it was even in there because they want to choose when their child learns about such things.

:/ I think it's a really nice passage. When I was a young girl, I was also very fascinated with what was happening "down there" and had I kept a diary, it would have contained a similar passage.

The mother is using the word "pornographic" to get attention. Her saying she hasn't sheltered her child, well, is a lie.

So should the schools take the passage out, because the way most (or maybe only some?) people raise their children has caused them to be uncomfortable about the vagina? Or should they move the book to a later grade where children have already had sex-ed? The second option would be so difficult, as they would have to move the whole curriculum, because the reason they are reading Anne Frank is because they are learning about World War II in that grade.

 

[NataliaGrey]

I don't understand. We had our first general sex-ed in 5th grade, and a more in depth one in 9th. We learned about our genitals and deodorant and boobs in 5th grade, and that's as far as this passage goes. Maybe if there was actual talk of sex, I could understand POSSIBLY giving it to an older grade, but not as it is. I guess I sometimes forget how poor sexual education is in most of the country.

Anne Frank was 13-15 when she wrote her diary. 7th graders are typically 12 or 13, I think - not too far off. Not to mention, I'm sure they've heard far worse from their peers.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

how old is 7th grade?

 

[GreatDane]

how old is 7th grade?

If you figure that most children start public school at the age of 5 to 7 depending on the state, that would make 7th grade at the 12 to 14 age range for most students.

 

[KaterinaPryde]

how old is 7th grade?

I was 12 at the beginning of 7th and 13 by the end so 12-13 years old

 

[Jillybean]

I don't understand. We had our first general sex-ed in 5th grade, and a more in depth one in 9th. We learned about our genitals and deodorant and boobs in 5th grade, and that's as far as this passage goes. Maybe if there was actual talk of sex, I could understand POSSIBLY giving it to an older grade, but not as it is. I guess I sometimes forget how poor sexual education is in most of the country.

Anne Frank was 13-15 when she wrote her diary. 7th graders are typically 12 or 13, I think - not too far off. Not to mention, I'm sure they've heard far worse from their peers.

Thank you for saying this, because I wasn't sure if my memory was serving me right or not, so I didn't say anything. I definitely remember looking at textbook diagrams of genitals in elementary school. I also received a more "sexual" sex-ed program in my later school years.

Perhaps where this child (from the article) goes to school, they do not have such a thing as a "Let's teach you this stuff before blood starts coming out of your vagina," curriculum.

I can nearly say for certain the only reason we got the talk so early was because lots of girls hit puberty in 5th to 7th grades, even though that's a bit earlier than many others.

 

[LadyLuna]

It's not a problem with the passage. It's a problem with how society makes kids feel about themselves. Children are curious, but if a parent catches a child being curious about their genitals, then that parent is very likely to discourage that curiosity. That leads to children getting uncomfortable about their genitals, and then stuff like this happens. A child reads about a girl discovering her down-there-area. That child doesn't know anything about it aside nobody talks about it. That child goes to their parent with questions about it, and possibly stating that it made them uncomfortable. Then, the parent gets angry it was even in there because they want to choose when their child learns about such things.

:/ I think it's a really nice passage. When I was a young girl, I was also very fascinated with what was happening "down there" and had I kept a diary, it would have contained a similar passage.

Totally agree with everything you said, but wanted to highlight this bit because it's so true.

 

[SerenaMoon]

I think the whole reason it is read in 7th grade, and basically how it was explained when I was in 7th grade is, "this girl was your age, this could very well be you." Having read this book several times, I think the mother and her daughter may have missed the entire background for the diary. Suddenly we are not looking at "this could very well be you," but maybe it IS you. Once the authorities begin telling you what is acceptable to read and make us fear what can and can not be said soon we find ourselves hiding in attics and basements, persecuted for our own beliefs.... Irony.

Something tells me, not only does this woman live in a bubble, but very likely an anti-Semitic one at that. Just seems like an odd book to pick out. By 7th grade you have or are reading Lord of the Flies, and To Kill a Mockingbird as well. Not to mention most girls have probably already read the Twilight series on their own, usually at the encouragement of their parents and may have even snuck a copy of mom's 50 Shades of Grey.

Book banning just seems like the start of the end for an educated society. The act of censorship will always be worse than that which should be censored.

 

[Deleted member 8603]

It's world war fucking two, racial genocide, in the mind of a young woman.
It's terrifying. And its supposed to be, because it was terrifying to be this girl.

If a vagina upsets you more than WW2, you're an idiot.

 

[Brad]

I think the whole reason it is read in 7th grade, and basically how it was explained when I was in 7th grade is, "this girl was your age, this could very well be you." Having read this book several times, I think the mother and her daughter may have missed the entire background for the diary. Suddenly we are not looking at "this could very well be you," but maybe it IS you. Once the authorities begin telling you what is acceptable to read and make us fear what can and can not be said soon we find ourselves hiding in attics and basements, persecuted for our own beliefs.... Irony.

Something tells me, not only does this woman live in a bubble, but very likely an anti-Semitic one at that. Just seems like an odd book to pick out. By 7th grade you have or are reading Lord of the Flies, and To Kill a Mockingbird as well. Not to mention most girls have probably already read the Twilight series on their own, usually at the encouragement of their parents and may have even snuck a copy of mom's 50 Shades of Grey.

Book banning just seems like the start of the end for an educated society. The act of censorship will always be worse than that which should be censored.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.
:roll:

I think it's silly and stupid but I am also biased since I'm a Jew.

 

[Just Me]

I think the whole reason it is read in 7th grade, and basically how it was explained when I was in 7th grade is, "this girl was your age, this could very well be you." Having read this book several times, I think the mother and her daughter may have missed the entire background for the diary. Suddenly we are not looking at "this could very well be you," but maybe it IS you. Once the authorities begin telling you what is acceptable to read and make us fear what can and can not be said soon we find ourselves hiding in attics and basements, persecuted for our own beliefs.... Irony.

Something tells me, not only does this woman live in a bubble, but very likely an anti-Semitic one at that. Just seems like an odd book to pick out. By 7th grade you have or are reading Lord of the Flies, and To Kill a Mockingbird as well. Not to mention most girls have probably already read the Twilight series on their own, usually at the encouragement of their parents and may have even snuck a copy of mom's 50 Shades of Grey.

Book banning just seems like the start of the end for an educated society. The act of censorship will always be worse than that which should be censored.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.
:roll:

I think it's silly and stupid but I am also biased since I'm a Jew.

I will give her the benefit of the doubt on antisemitism. I think what is really going on here is the typical USA societal reaction of sex is bad, murders and death are ok, at least when it comes to media depictions.

 

[Bocefish]

"What's even funnier is that I thought urine came out of the clitoris ... When you're standing up, all you see from the front is hair. Between your legs there are two soft, cushiony things, also covered with hair, which press together when you're standing, so you can't see what's inside. They separate when you sit down and they're very red and quite fleshy on the inside."

That's the offending 'pornographic' passage?

Being curious or even uncomfortable about your genitalia is a normal progression at that age and this dipshit mother chose to enforce her daughter's fears instead of educating her.

Blaming the book for her daughter having uncomfortable new feelings? :snooty:

Talk about a perfect teaching moment lost...

 

[LadyLuna]

"What's even funnier is that I thought urine came out of the clitoris "

I *wish* I had read the unedited version in school! I didn't know what a clitoris was until college, and it was this forum which set me straight about where the urethra comes out in a woman. (I never thought it was from my clit itself, but I thought it was from just above or just below it... because it always feels like it's running over my clit when I pee.)

 

[JoleneBrody]

You know the fucked up/funny part?

It's takes a real "pornographic" forum community to unanimously agree that this is beyond absurd, it's down right dangerous to humanity that this is even being discussed!

I'm truly shocked.

And yeah, I also got sex-ed in 5th grade. I assumed everyone did, it was far more graphic but basically along the same lines.

 

[AllisonWilder]

I also learned a bit about sex ed and such in the 5th grade. I think a bit more in 8th grade and more in-depth things in 10th grade.

Blaming the book for her daughter having uncomfortable new feelings? :snooty:

Talk about a perfect teaching moment lost...

I agree with this 100%.

I hope my kid gets assigned things that will make him uncomfortable because it's those same things that will make him think and question things and hopefully come to me or his dad with difficult questions so that we don't miss out on teaching opportunities.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

This is as pornographic as the kid from 'Kindergarten Cop' telling us that boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. And any cries of wanting to ban that movie from the world would be just as absurd. Kids around this time all have questions, and are finding new things about their body- even Jewish girls in hiding from Nazis, it adds more to her experience- more authentic and what not. When the only thing that offends you in the diary of anne frank is the mention of a clitoris, it's time to take a long hard look in the mirror.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Seeing as although the book describes her area in a little bit of detail, her daughter, being female, actually has parts like that of her own. Parts which are very important.

When I was a child and reached puberty all these changes were unknown, upsetting and very embarrassing. Even though at my school we had a fair bit of sex ed from about age 10/11, it was definitely an embarrassing subject.
Children reading things like this and having parents and adults show to them that it's ok, that everyone has these body parts, they're totally normal and not something to be ashamed of might maybe help children from not being so embarrassed about these things. As much as I don't think children should really read graphic sex descriptions, I do think that they should read things that contain information about their own bodies. We all have bodies and private parts, even when we're children. Even things like masturbation are both normal and healthy in fairly young children, even though they don't know what they're masturbating about and it doesn't mean in any way they're ready for any form of sexual encounters, exploring your own body is natural.
I am sure the child felt awkward reading these things, probably uncomfortable, reason being we are taught to be ashamed and embarrassed of our bodies. Her feeling uncomfortable isn't due to the book being in the wrong, it's due to us raising children to feel uncomfortable about very natural parts.

 

[Meoff_69]

And yeah, I also got sex-ed in 5th grade. I assumed everyone did, it was far more graphic but basically along the same lines.

News flash...I was taught sex ed, in the good ole state of Kansas (one of the most backwards when it comes to seperation of church and state) in the 4th grade! Which...may explain a lot about how I am the way I am....today! :?

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I'm scared to know that there is Anne Frank fan-fic out there, for this mom to read. Now that'd be pornographic.

 

[LacieLaPlante]

To avoid reading passages like that in my 8th grade class we read the play rather than her actual diary.

On the subject of sex ed, don't forget guys - some school still don't teach sex ed! I never had it. The reason was that so many parents disagreed on the way to teach it that they said that "The parents should be in charge of itit"... My parent's didn't teach me anything. I'm assuming there are a lot of parents who are too afraid to teach their children about sex too.

Apparently we were really sheltered in "liberal" massachusetts.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I received sex ed twice, maybe three times growing up. In 5th grade in elementary school, and then the next year in middle school. I was raised on the other spectrum where I wasn't sheltered. It wasn't forced on me, but my parents didn't exhaust themselves trying to keep everything out of my life.

In 7th grade, my English teacher brought in a collection of books her and her husband have read to support reading and gave us the option that if we didn't want to read any books from the school library we could read what she brought in. I don't know why, but I didn't even check out the school library and went straight to her collection. She must have just clumped all the books together because the books I grabbed were real graphic stuff going on. One book dealt with rape, which was described in detail. The other read like an action movie, but the villain was a kinky son of a gun. (He would have gotten away with it, if his dick didn't get in the way!) Main scene I remember reading was the bad guy going to some party, hit on a girl beat up her angry boyfriend. He left and took her with. Some sort of forced road head at gun point was going on and him telling her "Don't let me go soft." And well, spoilers- he went soft and killed her with a power drill through the skull. And a teenage girl finds out she doesn't pee out of her clitoris is too far? geeeeze

I was caught off guard, but I didn't tell anyone because I didn't want my teacher to get in trouble for something I'm sure she didn't intend her students to read. It made me like her more, AND these books were good 300-400 pages long and I finished them both so her trying to get her students to read more certainly worked on me. Bonus.

 

[Poker_Babe]

I received sex ed twice, maybe three times growing up. In 5th grade in elementary school, and then the next year in middle school. I was raised on the other spectrum where I wasn't sheltered. It wasn't forced on me, but my parents didn't exhaust themselves trying to keep everything out of my life.

In 7th grade, my English teacher brought in a collection of books her and her husband have read to support reading and gave us the option that if we didn't want to read any books from the school library we could read what she brought in. I don't know why, but I didn't even check out the school library and went straight to her collection. She must have just clumped all the books together because the books I grabbed were real graphic stuff going on. One book dealt with rape, which was described in detail. The other read like an action movie, but the villain was a kinky son of a gun. (He would have gotten away with it, if his dick didn't get in the way!) Main scene I remember reading was the bad guy going to some party, hit on a girl beat up her angry boyfriend. He left and took her with. Some sort of forced road head at gun point was going on and him telling her "Don't let me go soft." And well, spoilers- he went soft and killed her with a power drill through the skull. And a teenage girl finds out she doesn't pee out of her clitoris is too far? geeeeze

I was caught off guard, but I didn't tell anyone because I didn't want my teacher to get in trouble for something I'm sure she didn't intend her students to read. It made me like her more, AND these books were good 300-400 pages long and I finished them both so her trying to get her students to read more certainly worked on me. Bonus.

Name of the book please???