Luckyfoxxy
Inactive Cam Model
Settle down Dostoyevski...When you have people talking about freeloaders on what is even being advertised to the models as a 'hangout/chill out site', well, you could have fooled me that some aren't expecting tips. The site isn't being advertised to models as another avenue of work; correct?
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It says it right there. It's for models who just want to hang out with members. It also has the added benefit of being able to be tipped while hanging out. There's nothing in there that says it's another place to work and make money. In fact, according to the things Leo said about dress code, for lack of a better wording, and conduct on the site, many (not all) non-nude models wouldn't even do well there if they tried to turn that into their work. Many non-nude models still dress skimpy (string bikinis, underwear, extremely revealing tops/shorts but still not being nude), do sexy dances in those outfits, do wet t-shirt shows, etc. The top (mostly) non-nude model wouldn't be allowed to do her topics of hand bras, her sometimes topless groups, or her 5000 tokens before a topless true private (I did say she was mostly non nude). And she is in the top 50, now, and has over a 20k camscore. Even she couldn't transition to Cammunity and expect to make what she's making now, if she tried to do it as her work. The only non-nude models who could transition to Cammunity and still potentially make what they're making now are the ones who already do the whole PG-13 or under things now.
If the site was advertised to the models as another place to work, it would be different. But it isn't.
Yes, they can. But the site isn't advertised as a work site for models to make money. That's the key difference some are missing here.
Some of us do both. The difference is to which models we do these things for. I have a very select few models I tip just because (those I've known for 6 or so years, and have built up a rapport, mostly), and all the rest I'm tipping for something in return. Those are business transactions. That's how it works. If I am awake and come in your room when you're on (a rarity I'm awake that late anymore, since I'm an old fart), and I tip for a dice or card game or some other thing in your topic, that's still a business transaction. If I come in and do a tip with just a hi emote, that's a just because tip. If I tip with jokes in the tip notes, those are just because tips. That's the difference.
Again, it's not listed as a place to work. If models previously did hangout times on MFC, and didn't exactly care that it hurt their camscore, that was their choice. Now there is (will be when it actually launches, is probably better) an option to do that without the camscore drop. It becomes a win/win in those situations, especially if they get some tips while there. There's one model I could see moving exclusively there because she even puts in her topic never to tip her. She doesn't give a fuck about her camscore and just broadcasts while doing creative stuff on Twitch. It's a stretch to even call her a model anymore, since she actually hates getting tips, and her topics generally say go to Twitch to chat.
I don't have any reservations that some models will attempt to use it as a way to hustle for tips without the stress of lowering their camscore, and thus their placement on the MFC homepage. But unless they're Mary (CrazyM), Lovely Kitty, Bleu, and a select few others like maybe Nat (Loca_Loca_), they shouldn't be surprised if they don't get the hustle they think they will. But, again, it isn't being advertised to even models as a place to work and get their hustle on for those tokens. That's the key point that people are missing. If Leo changes his mind and starts telling models to use it as an alternative way to earn tokens, then that's different. As of now, though, he isn't..
On the working site, I agree. Again, Leo isn't forcing models to work on Cammunity. He isn't going to dock tokens or withhold paychecks for not using it. He may even provide incentives for using it early on. May. It's not like I know enough about Leo to fully grasp what goes on inside his head. But his comments so far don't bring any nefarious intentions.
You were still being paid for it. It was still a job. The Cammunity site isn't advertised as part of the job for models.
Take the flip side, though. Do you charge your real life friends to hang out with you?
Any model that is going to think of the hangout/chill site as part of the job should just stay on MFC. If they want to be tipped for their time, then that's part of the job... MFC is the job.
Do you also think every Twitch, Hitbox, or YouTube Gaming streamer should be getting paid for what they do on those sites? Do you also think every person who posts vids to YouTube should be getting paid for it?
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Do you show up the majority of the time like this? Do the majority of models show up the majority of their time on cam like this? Does every model make more the times they do show up like that?
Personally, I prefer a more natural look. I'm not saying no makeup at all, but makeup that looks more natural. I'm not into bright lipstick, blush, and eyeshadow. Even on my favorite models, I get turned off if they overdo the makeup. But there's still a difference between a more natural look and looking like you literally rolled out of bed and decided to show up. But, that's me. Everyone is different.
Again, the hangout site vs the work site. I don't go to work and just hang out. If I'm at work, I'm on the clock. So, if a model wants to be on the clock, that's what MFC is for. If she's bored, lonely, etc. and just wants to hang out, that's what Cammunity is/will be for. That difference is major. If the majority of models look at the hangout site as just another part of the job, then the site will be about as popular as Chatgasm, which had a whopping 3 models online when I looked at it yesterday. The models that want it to be extra income will quickly get turned off by it because that's not what it is going for, right now. They'll decide that if they're on cam, they should be trying to earning tokens, and just stay on MFC.
As much as we can sit here and hear models talk about how they love their regs and the great friendships they've gotten, we're still seeing the attitude of #FuckYouPayMe cropping up when talking about a site that isn't advertised as a working site.
There are some that think they can start making tons of money on YouTube and Twitch. And you know how extremely disappointed and jaded they become very quickly when they aren't making enough to quit their jobs overnight (OK, that's hyperbole, but even within a few months)? Well over 99% of them. Anyone who goes into YouTube or Twitch with the myth in their head that they can just start making money hand over fist, because a select few are making money hand over fist, are deluding themselves. Isn't this something we constantly see being brought up here, too? New models wondering why they aren't suddenly making the big bucks like they think they should be? Same thing.
Hoping to make money off it, and expecting to make money off it are two entirely different things. I upload to YouTube, and I monetize my videos, yes. But, I'm now going to show you exactly how much money that has earned me over the past 5 YEARS of doing so. Yes, I'm going to show you exactly how much money I've made on YouTube, and I don't expect to know exactly how much you've made camming, or any other model for that matter. It's a question that's been asked of YouTube people a lot, especially recently. Are you ready to be shocked? I hope so.
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FUCK YES! I'M RICH!
Absolutely false. You may know of the few big names on YouTube or Twitch that make really good money, but percentage wise, they're the exception, not the rule. Some fun statistics:
Over 1.5 million people stream to Twitch each month. Out of those 1.5 million, less than 12,000 are eligible to earn ad revenue, get bits, and have subs. That's under 1% of all streamers.
Twitch has started rolling out a new affiliate program, that allows small streamers who average 3+ viewers to now get bits (think tips/tokens). The amount of streamers who can average even 3 viewers per stream is still well under 10% of all streamers. Go look at any game, and see how quickly the viewing numbers drop off to 0, and just how many sit there streaming with 0 viewers. This is especially true for really popular games like CS:GO, Overwatch, and League of Legends. There can be thousands of streamers of those games at any given time, and the amount of 0 viewer streams is the vast majority of those streamers.
Just because streamers have donation links doesn't mean they are getting donations. Being an attractive female streamer increases the likelihood of getting donations, especially the boobie streamers as they are known (cleavage shirts, booty shorts, dance/write on themselves for donations... essentially trying to be cam girls without being cam girls); but even the majority of them aren't making any money..
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52.62% of YouTube videos have under 500 views. 62.05% have under 1000 views.
The majority of YouTube channels have under 1000 subscribers.
YouTube's ad payout is fairly low to YouTube uploaders, and is based on per 1000 views (CPM), with more if people actually click on those ads (and we all know how rare that is online). It's generally around $1 per 1000 views where the ad is played all the way through (no hitting of skip ad or using ad blockers). Certain ads pay more, certain ads pay less; and there can be times when ads pay a much bigger payout (around $3/1000 views) when those are paid promotions by those advertisers.
Would you like to change your definition of "many"? SOME Twitch streamers and YouTube video makers are making good money. But they're the VAST MINORITY of people on those sites. Not everyone uploading to YouTube is PewDiePie. Not everyone streaming on Twitch is Summit1G. The amount of people making enough on Twitch or YouTube to earn their livings off those sites in extremely small. The amount of people able to supplement their income on those sites is only slightly larger. Most will never make enough to get their first payout.
But let's turn this around and see the amount of disagreement that comes up:
"Many cam models get paid a really good amount of money!"
I'm pretty sure we all know the shitstorm that arises when that claim is made.
Again. Cammunity. Is. Not. The. Work. Site. If any model is looking at Cammunity as providing a service, then they're going into it with the wrong mindset.
Most of them aren't getting paid. If they're putting ads on their videos, they're like me, and can't expect that first massive $100 payout for another 10 years. And with YouTube's clamping down on videos allowed to be monetized, as well as the overall lower CPM after a bunch of advertisers left, it could take even longer, now. This isn't even counting the totally broken ContentID system and the abuses that arise from it that allow scammers to try and take what little ad revenue most videos get (and I'll count Nintendo among these, since their ContentID claim abuses with zero regard for fair use is notorious by now).
Same question: Do you charge your friends to hang out with you?
Wouldn't know anything about that. Nope. No 12 hour long Zelda: Breath of the Wild streams from me... don't know what you're talking about..
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So, I should expect donations on my Twitch/YouTube Gaming streams is what you're saying? I'm doing the same thing for my viewers, right? I'm also sat in an uncomfortable position, for hours on end. Should I also mention the $2500+ PC I built for recording and streaming, plus the new webcam, capture device, video editing software, etc., that I've done in the past year and few months? Or is it not really the same thing?
Depends on the model and the tipper. Go to Mary's room and watch the big tips fly. Half the time it's more of an epeen contest to show who can tip her more. Mary charges 5000 tokens before a true private, but regularly gets 10k tips without the member taking her private. I don't think she has videos for sale. It varies from model to model and tipper to tipper.
Go to any strip club. When you see guys throwing tons of money on stage, that isn't just because. It's a way to garner attention from the stripper. The hope is the stripper will come over and give attention to the big tipper. You can get the same on MFC, with those guys throwing around 1k+ tips willy nilly.
Business transactions.You don't expect models to just give away videos, do you? Should we expect models to just log on, get naked, and fuck themselves silly for 0 tips? This isn't a one way street, you know. Models expect compensation for whatever they're bringing. You can't then turn around and say members can't expect compensation for their money. We call that a double standard. If the member tips the price listed for something (flash, videos, etc.), then turns around and leaves the room before whatever countdown is done, that's fine. The business transaction has been completed successfully. The model has received payment, and the member has received whatever they tipped for (provided they get what they tipped for, which isn't always the case).
As we're seeing more models talking about freeloaders, and how they should be tipped for being on a hangout site... is it any wonder members have more skepticism?
I barely log onto MFC anymore. 1-2x every few weeks. My few favorite models and I talk over texts and other such, none of which I had to pay to get their numbers. They gave them to me, and it's not like I can afford to be uber-tipper. Cammunity, itself, interests me very little. I'd only ever consider going there, beyond checking it out yesterday, if my few favs were there and wanted me to see them on cam, live and just hang out with them. So, no, I'm not coming at this from the mindset of someone looking for entertainment. It has nothing to offer me, nor many other members (nor even models who want their boyfriends to join them on cam to hang out).
Judging from the talk I saw, yesterday, no, it isn't. Also, not even Harli could get her normal numbers while on there (she's normally a few hundred to over a thousand viewers at a time), and she made barely any tips there. And if a really popular model can't get the members to show up... then you know it's not for the majority of members.
Also, models are looking at it from a camscore/rank PoV, it seems. Some of them anyway. A way to raise camscore and rank, while not doing what they normally do (for the nude models). One even said she hates doing sexual things in this thread; to which I say "wrong line of work" (or at least she should have started out non-nude, not everyone can transition from nude to non-nude). It's like being a vegan and working in a slaughterhouse... wrong line of work.
With the expectation of being tipped on the non-work site. You said it yourself: if you're going to be on cam, you expect to get tips.
This completely contradicts what you said earlier:
You go from "then yes he should tip something" to "maybe earn a bit." Those are contradictory. The first expects the tip, the second is might earn some tips.
Voyeur fetish... sure, it's a thing. It's not massively popular, but it exists. Though I expect the inatratubez to explode if models couldn't show feet because to those foot fetish guys that is a sexual act.
Like I said earlier in here, except for a very select few extremely popular high camscore models, I wouldn't expect anyone to really even get close to those types of countdowns. That fear is pretty much unjustified unless Mary does it.
That does make sense. And on the working site, that's fine. But I've already gone over the difference between the working site and the non-work site. Also, set your PMs to friends only, and charge for friend add, and you won't get guys randomly PMing you, unless they've paid for it.
