MFC's new Non Nude site - Cammunity (now CamYou)

[Hereiam]

For me it appears random? I don't know what it is, but it's definitely not room size on my end.



But the site defaults to camscore, so if you have a higher camscore, overall you have higher visibility. Soooo many people don't even know there is another way to search for models.

one more time .. you are totally right

 

[Picnic]

you are totally right

This phrase is my fetish

 

[Hereiam]

This phrase is my fetish

mouahahaa ...

 

[SatanJonez]

I tried it out briefly this afternoon and I really enjoyed it. The whole vibe is different and there's like a fuck load of possibilities. I was even mentioning how it may even occasionally pull me back to MFC to do separate shows once in awhile (not using the tip system on Cammunity, just plain old logging on MFC after hanging out a bit on there).

I get why people are leery of it, but I think it's actually going to do pretty well, especially given that so many over-the-top creative ladies make their home there. Pretty cool shit.

 

[LoonaVision]

Being a cam model for 11.5 years,I was watching websites go up and down, I have never seen a successful non-nude website. I hop it will be different for cammunity

 

[LoonaVision]

I have read the whole thread! Whoa! And I have a question: isn't it just easier to remove the camscore thing from mfc and make a tag to ur mfc room if you are nude or non nude model so members know what to expect when the join the room and look for non nude models by tag if they don't want to do anything with nudity?

 

[PearTV]

I have read the whole thread! Whoa! And I have a question: isn't it just easier to remove the camscore thing from mfc and make a tag to ur mfc room if you are nude or non nude model so members know what to expect when the join the room and look for non nude models by tag if they don't want to do anything with nudity?

Nope because having camscore on MFC is part of what makes the site so profitable for them.

 

[Tesla]

I am really curious how/if it impacts rank. I am assuming tokens earned still count toward rank since offline tips do?

Also, I see an option for locked galleries. I have tons of NN picture sets that are IG-level intensity (sexy lingerie/bikinis but no nipples, occasional buttcrack). Is that something I can have in a locked gallery to sell on Cammu? Also interested to hear about advertising/selling more explicit material there and how they are going to handle that. I was going to tweet @ them but it doesn't look like anyone is handling their social media. Maybe Amber knows someone to ask?

 

[AmberCutie]

I tried it out briefly this afternoon and I really enjoyed it. The whole vibe is different and there's like a fuck load of possibilities. I was even mentioning how it may even occasionally pull me back to MFC to do separate shows once in awhile (not using the tip system on Cammunity, just plain old logging on MFC after hanging out a bit on there).

I get why people are leery of it, but I think it's actually going to do pretty well, especially given that so many over-the-top creative ladies make their home there. Pretty cool shit.

And your bio there looks awesome! Simple and cute.

 

[AmberCutie]

I am really curious how/if it impacts rank. I am assuming tokens earned still count toward rank since offline tips do?

Also, I see an option for locked galleries. I have tons of NN picture sets that are IG-level intensity (sexy lingerie/bikinis but no nipples, occasional buttcrack). Is that something I can have in a locked gallery to sell on Cammu? Also interested to hear about advertising/selling more explicit material there and how they are going to handle that. I was going to tweet @ them but it doesn't look like anyone is handling their social media. Maybe Amber knows someone to ask?

I know they're aware of this thread (hey they retweeted it!) so hopefully they'll find a way to answer some of these questions once there's a more official beta launch announced.

 

[thehills]

rules have been updated - http://wiki.cammunity.com/wiki/Rules_for_Cammers

 

[AmberCutie]

I made a very quick basic profile editing tutorial here - https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/cammunity-basic-steps-to-create-custom-profile.28401/

 

[ramblin]

rules have been updated - http://wiki.cammunity.com/wiki/Rules_for_Cammers

This line is interesting:

People other than the registered Cammer may not appear directly on cam close-up where they could be identified.

Seems like they may be finding a more permissive line than MFC wrt public broadcasting

 

[KandissKiss]

Um, models aren't getting naked nor doing sexual things there, according to its own rules. So how are people freeloading? They're not sitting there, not tipping, while others tip for nudity and shows when it's a non-nude site.

I don't think this should be seen as a "tip me for existing" type thing. If models want tips for their time, then stay on MFC, where they can set goals and incentives for members to tip towards. Expecting tips just for showing up, either on MFC or Cammu, is a sense of entitlement that is beyond words. I wouldn't expect the tipping to be anywhere near the potential of MFC; even Harli only got a few 5-10 token tips here and there while on it, and she normally makes a hell of a lot more in the same time frame. There's no nudity countdowns. There's no show countdowns. there's no groups or privates. Any tips recieved should be looked at like the donations on Twitch, because people feel like tipping.

No, I understand all of that. Maybe I don't "get" the whole site. It just doesn't seem like something I would prefer, that's all. I already get the dudes that want to chat in PMs the whole time I'm online, get upset when I don't respond right away and actually pay attention to my chat room, and have never tipped me a single token ever. I don't ever ask people to tip me for existing, but I won't give people all of my time and attention if they're not supporting me EVER, does that make sense?

 

[MysticalFires]

I fucking love this! I'm so excited to try it out!

 

[MezriaMae]

I'm not stoked on the idea of it helping camscore but not hurting, honestly that seems pretty unfair. if it doesn't hurt the score it shouldn't help it either.

On the subject about it not hurting the CS, I kind of hypothesize that many girls are gonna have a goal for x amt of tons and then switch to MFC for a xxx show. That prevents the CS from being damaged at least till they hit a nude goal.

 

[UncleThursday]

Thursday, no one is EXPECTING tips. But a non-nude model is still working, even if she's not getting naked or doing 'shows.' There are different forms of 'working,' and that is completely up to the model to decide. So yes, of COURSE there will be freeloaders. Any member who enjoys multiple shows/games/activities/etc without compensating the model is a freeloader. This has nothing to do with whether she's doing anything sexual or not. Some models are ok with freeloading because it raises her room count. Others are not. This is completely up to her to determine if and where she wants to draw that line.

When you have people talking about freeloaders on what is even being advertised to the models as a 'hangout/chill out site', well, you could have fooled me that some aren't expecting tips. The site isn't being advertised to models as another avenue of work; correct?



It says it right there. It's for models who just want to hang out with members. It also has the added benefit of being able to be tipped while hanging out. There's nothing in there that says it's another place to work and make money. In fact, according to the things Leo said about dress code, for lack of a better wording, and conduct on the site, many (not all) non-nude models wouldn't even do well there if they tried to turn that into their work. Many non-nude models still dress skimpy (string bikinis, underwear, extremely revealing tops/shorts but still not being nude), do sexy dances in those outfits, do wet t-shirt shows, etc. The top (mostly) non-nude model wouldn't be allowed to do her topics of hand bras, her sometimes topless groups, or her 5000 tokens before a topless true private (I did say she was mostly non nude). And she is in the top 50, now, and has over a 20k camscore. Even she couldn't transition to Cammunity and expect to make what she's making now, if she tried to do it as her work. The only non-nude models who could transition to Cammunity and still potentially make what they're making now are the ones who already do the whole PG-13 or under things now.

If the site was advertised to the models as another place to work, it would be different. But it isn't.

Non-nude models can still request tokens for their time. They can still do countdowns or have incentives for people to tip.

Yes, they can. But the site isn't advertised as a work site for models to make money. That's the key difference some are missing here.

MFC used to have a 'just because tip' mentality years ago, but now most members won't tip unless they're getting something for it. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing; it's just the way it is.

Some of us do both. The difference is to which models we do these things for. I have a very select few models I tip just because (those I've known for 6 or so years, and have built up a rapport, mostly), and all the rest I'm tipping for something in return. Those are business transactions. That's how it works. If I am awake and come in your room when you're on (a rarity I'm awake that late anymore, since I'm an old fart), and I tip for a dice or card game or some other thing in your topic, that's still a business transaction. If I come in and do a tip with just a hi emote, that's a just because tip. If I tip with jokes in the tip notes, those are just because tips. That's the difference.

The only members that will treat cammunity like it's a site that shouldn't deserve tips because the girls aren't 'working' are the ones who wouldn't tip you on MFC during hangout, chatty times anyway.

Again, it's not listed as a place to work. If models previously did hangout times on MFC, and didn't exactly care that it hurt their camscore, that was their choice. Now there is (will be when it actually launches, is probably better) an option to do that without the camscore drop. It becomes a win/win in those situations, especially if they get some tips while there. There's one model I could see moving exclusively there because she even puts in her topic never to tip her. She doesn't give a fuck about her camscore and just broadcasts while doing creative stuff on Twitch. It's a stretch to even call her a model anymore, since she actually hates getting tips, and her topics generally say go to Twitch to chat.

If you think that models will use it only for getting online to sit around and chill, i feel you'll be very mistaken.

I don't have any reservations that some models will attempt to use it as a way to hustle for tips without the stress of lowering their camscore, and thus their placement on the MFC homepage. But unless they're Mary (CrazyM), Lovely Kitty, Bleu, and a select few others like maybe Nat (Loca_Loca_), they shouldn't be surprised if they don't get the hustle they think they will. But, again, it isn't being advertised to even models as a place to work and get their hustle on for those tokens. That's the key point that people are missing. If Leo changes his mind and starts telling models to use it as an alternative way to earn tokens, then that's different. As of now, though, he isn't..

If models are providing companionship, services, entertainment and offering tips for things etc - then they should be tipped.

On the working site, I agree. Again, Leo isn't forcing models to work on Cammunity. He isn't going to dock tokens or withhold paychecks for not using it. He may even provide incentives for using it early on. May. It's not like I know enough about Leo to fully grasp what goes on inside his head. But his comments so far don't bring any nefarious intentions.

Providing companionship is still a service, like any other. I used to get paid to sit with elderly people and talk to them while i was in my teens.

You were still being paid for it. It was still a job. The Cammunity site isn't advertised as part of the job for models.

Take the flip side, though. Do you charge your real life friends to hang out with you?

Any model that is going to think of the hangout/chill site as part of the job should just stay on MFC. If they want to be tipped for their time, then that's part of the job... MFC is the job.

Time = money.

Do you also think every Twitch, Hitbox, or YouTube Gaming streamer should be getting paid for what they do on those sites? Do you also think every person who posts vids to YouTube should be getting paid for it?

Nope.... Never shown up with bed head, no make up and pjs.... Never made more tokens than a regular night.... The morning bed look isn't remotely popular...

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Do you show up the majority of the time like this? Do the majority of models show up the majority of their time on cam like this? Does every model make more the times they do show up like that?

Personally, I prefer a more natural look. I'm not saying no makeup at all, but makeup that looks more natural. I'm not into bright lipstick, blush, and eyeshadow. Even on my favorite models, I get turned off if they overdo the makeup. But there's still a difference between a more natural look and looking like you literally rolled out of bed and decided to show up. But, that's me. Everyone is different.

To say that models shouldn't expect to be paid for "just showing up", is like saying to a person who works in a regular job that they shouldn't expect to be paid if no customers come in. Sure they may not get commission, but they have been there doing a job.

Again, the hangout site vs the work site. I don't go to work and just hang out. If I'm at work, I'm on the clock. So, if a model wants to be on the clock, that's what MFC is for. If she's bored, lonely, etc. and just wants to hang out, that's what Cammunity is/will be for. That difference is major. If the majority of models look at the hangout site as just another part of the job, then the site will be about as popular as Chatgasm, which had a whopping 3 models online when I looked at it yesterday. The models that want it to be extra income will quickly get turned off by it because that's not what it is going for, right now. They'll decide that if they're on cam, they should be trying to earning tokens, and just stay on MFC.

As much as we can sit here and hear models talk about how they love their regs and the great friendships they've gotten, we're still seeing the attitude of #FuckYouPayMe cropping up when talking about a site that isn't advertised as a working site.

You say that twitch streamers and youtubers don't expect to make money. I call bullshit on this.

There are some that think they can start making tons of money on YouTube and Twitch. And you know how extremely disappointed and jaded they become very quickly when they aren't making enough to quit their jobs overnight (OK, that's hyperbole, but even within a few months)? Well over 99% of them. Anyone who goes into YouTube or Twitch with the myth in their head that they can just start making money hand over fist, because a select few are making money hand over fist, are deluding themselves. Isn't this something we constantly see being brought up here, too? New models wondering why they aren't suddenly making the big bucks like they think they should be? Same thing.

I am sure some people upload for their own reasons, but many people who use these platforms are hoping that in the end it will pay off.

Hoping to make money off it, and expecting to make money off it are two entirely different things. I upload to YouTube, and I monetize my videos, yes. But, I'm now going to show you exactly how much money that has earned me over the past 5 YEARS of doing so. Yes, I'm going to show you exactly how much money I've made on YouTube, and I don't expect to know exactly how much you've made camming, or any other model for that matter. It's a question that's been asked of YouTube people a lot, especially recently. Are you ready to be shocked? I hope so.



FUCK YES! I'M RICH!

And many twitch and youtube streamers get paid a really good amount of money!

Absolutely false. You may know of the few big names on YouTube or Twitch that make really good money, but percentage wise, they're the exception, not the rule. Some fun statistics:

Over 1.5 million people stream to Twitch each month. Out of those 1.5 million, less than 12,000 are eligible to earn ad revenue, get bits, and have subs. That's under 1% of all streamers.

Twitch has started rolling out a new affiliate program, that allows small streamers who average 3+ viewers to now get bits (think tips/tokens). The amount of streamers who can average even 3 viewers per stream is still well under 10% of all streamers. Go look at any game, and see how quickly the viewing numbers drop off to 0, and just how many sit there streaming with 0 viewers. This is especially true for really popular games like CS:GO, Overwatch, and League of Legends. There can be thousands of streamers of those games at any given time, and the amount of 0 viewer streams is the vast majority of those streamers.

Just because streamers have donation links doesn't mean they are getting donations. Being an attractive female streamer increases the likelihood of getting donations, especially the boobie streamers as they are known (cleavage shirts, booty shorts, dance/write on themselves for donations... essentially trying to be cam girls without being cam girls); but even the majority of them aren't making any money..



52.62% of YouTube videos have under 500 views. 62.05% have under 1000 views.

The majority of YouTube channels have under 1000 subscribers.

YouTube's ad payout is fairly low to YouTube uploaders, and is based on per 1000 views (CPM), with more if people actually click on those ads (and we all know how rare that is online). It's generally around $1 per 1000 views where the ad is played all the way through (no hitting of skip ad or using ad blockers). Certain ads pay more, certain ads pay less; and there can be times when ads pay a much bigger payout (around $3/1000 views) when those are paid promotions by those advertisers.

Would you like to change your definition of "many"? SOME Twitch streamers and YouTube video makers are making good money. But they're the VAST MINORITY of people on those sites. Not everyone uploading to YouTube is PewDiePie. Not everyone streaming on Twitch is Summit1G. The amount of people making enough on Twitch or YouTube to earn their livings off those sites in extremely small. The amount of people able to supplement their income on those sites is only slightly larger. Most will never make enough to get their first payout.

But let's turn this around and see the amount of disagreement that comes up:

"Many cam models get paid a really good amount of money!"

I'm pretty sure we all know the shitstorm that arises when that claim is made.

Just because they aren't doing anything sexual doesn't mean they aren't working or providing a service.

Again. Cammunity. Is. Not. The. Work. Site. If any model is looking at Cammunity as providing a service, then they're going into it with the wrong mindset.

Many youtubers do tutorial videos, or provide entertainment or information. Why should they not be paid for this information? They are doing what is a service people usually pay for, but due to advertising it means people can access it for free and the person creating still gets paid.

Most of them aren't getting paid. If they're putting ads on their videos, they're like me, and can't expect that first massive $100 payout for another 10 years. And with YouTube's clamping down on videos allowed to be monetized, as well as the overall lower CPM after a bunch of advertisers left, it could take even longer, now. This isn't even counting the totally broken ContentID system and the abuses that arise from it that allow scammers to try and take what little ad revenue most videos get (and I'll count Nintendo among these, since their ContentID claim abuses with zero regard for fair use is notorious by now).

So no I don't believe that girls will necessarily earn as much on the non nude site as MFC, by default you will lose the guys who just want sexy times and will gain the guys who think it's free time.

Same question: Do you charge your friends to hang out with you?

But so long as you are on cam you are likely sat in a less comfortable position, have some form of lighting set up and are chatting and entertaining while you're there. Being on webcam for a group of people you cannot see, even if you are doing nothing sexual or physically intensive, is pretty intense.

Wouldn't know anything about that. Nope. No 12 hour long Zelda: Breath of the Wild streams from me... don't know what you're talking about..

I never come on with the impression that I should be tipped simply for existing, but yeah if a member comes in and enjoys watching and hanging out with me. If I bring a smile to his day or a bit of chill/relaxation time, then yes he should tip something. If I am on cam I am not "simply existing", I am streaming live entertainment. Sure if I am sat there doing nothing and am doing nothing to interact with the room then I see your point. But that's not my style of camming. If I'm sat down chilling I am always chatting with people.

So, I should expect donations on my Twitch/YouTube Gaming streams is what you're saying? I'm doing the same thing for my viewers, right? I'm also sat in an uncomfortable position, for hours on end. Should I also mention the $2500+ PC I built for recording and streaming, plus the new webcam, capture device, video editing software, etc., that I've done in the past year and few months? Or is it not really the same thing?

I have noticed a difference in the way members spend now to when I was last a full time cam model. Members who dropped bigger tips in the room now seem more inclined to save their tokens for private shows or videos.

Depends on the model and the tipper. Go to Mary's room and watch the big tips fly. Half the time it's more of an epeen contest to show who can tip her more. Mary charges 5000 tokens before a true private, but regularly gets 10k tips without the member taking her private. I don't think she has videos for sale. It varies from model to model and tipper to tipper.

Go to any strip club. When you see guys throwing tons of money on stage, that isn't just because. It's a way to garner attention from the stripper. The hope is the stripper will come over and give attention to the big tipper. You can get the same on MFC, with those guys throwing around 1k+ tips willy nilly.

There is more of an attitude that one must always get something more than live entertainment for their tips. This is probably just a culture thing because lots of models offered members extras for their tips, and therefore it's now expected.

Business transactions.You don't expect models to just give away videos, do you? Should we expect models to just log on, get naked, and fuck themselves silly for 0 tips? This isn't a one way street, you know. Models expect compensation for whatever they're bringing. You can't then turn around and say members can't expect compensation for their money. We call that a double standard. If the member tips the price listed for something (flash, videos, etc.), then turns around and leaves the room before whatever countdown is done, that's fine. The business transaction has been completed successfully. The model has received payment, and the member has received whatever they tipped for (provided they get what they tipped for, which isn't always the case).

I find it interesting on this thread to see that the models are full of excitement and positive interest, while on the members side I have seen more skepticism.

As we're seeing more models talking about freeloaders, and how they should be tipped for being on a hangout site... is it any wonder members have more skepticism?

I understand the points of some members, but you are talking from your point of view as someone who is seeking entertainment,

I barely log onto MFC anymore. 1-2x every few weeks. My few favorite models and I talk over texts and other such, none of which I had to pay to get their numbers. They gave them to me, and it's not like I can afford to be uber-tipper. Cammunity, itself, interests me very little. I'd only ever consider going there, beyond checking it out yesterday, if my few favs were there and wanted me to see them on cam, live and just hang out with them. So, no, I'm not coming at this from the mindset of someone looking for entertainment. It has nothing to offer me, nor many other members (nor even models who want their boyfriends to join them on cam to hang out).

but I have a feeling that this site is not for the bulk of members.

Judging from the talk I saw, yesterday, no, it isn't. Also, not even Harli could get her normal numbers while on there (she's normally a few hundred to over a thousand viewers at a time), and she made barely any tips there. And if a really popular model can't get the members to show up... then you know it's not for the majority of members.

Also, models are looking at it from a camscore/rank PoV, it seems. Some of them anyway. A way to raise camscore and rank, while not doing what they normally do (for the nude models). One even said she hates doing sexual things in this thread; to which I say "wrong line of work" (or at least she should have started out non-nude, not everyone can transition from nude to non-nude). It's like being a vegan and working in a slaughterhouse... wrong line of work.

It is more for the models and the few members who enjoy this sort of interaction.

With the expectation of being tipped on the non-work site. You said it yourself: if you're going to be on cam, you expect to get tips.

On a site like this I would be able to set up my camera while I'm doing revision to have some face time with my regulars and maybe earn a bit.

This completely contradicts what you said earlier:

If I bring a smile to his day or a bit of chill/relaxation time, then yes he should tip something. If I am on cam I am not "simply existing", I am streaming live entertainment.

You go from "then yes he should tip something" to "maybe earn a bit." Those are contradictory. The first expects the tip, the second is might earn some tips.

I also think this could be a good site for people who have voyeur or ignore fetishes, or like the idea of watching a girl do regular tasks. Putting on make up, doing yoga, revising for exams, doing course work, playing computer games, reading, cooking, cleaning etc. Many of these tasks could be performed for much longer and with less energy than regular camming on MFC. So for those girls who want more of a "full time" job, this could be a good way to keep your hours up while taking breaks from the busy main site.

Voyeur fetish... sure, it's a thing. It's not massively popular, but it exists. Though I expect the inatratubez to explode if models couldn't show feet because to those foot fetish guys that is a sexual act.

I've seen some concerns on twitter that popular nude models might use this site to clear up the count than switch to MFC and boost their camscore to millions - thoughts?

Like I said earlier in here, except for a very select few extremely popular high camscore models, I wouldn't expect anyone to really even get close to those types of countdowns. That fear is pretty much unjustified unless Mary does it.

No, I understand all of that. Maybe I don't "get" the whole site. It just doesn't seem like something I would prefer, that's all. I already get the dudes that want to chat in PMs the whole time I'm online, get upset when I don't respond right away and actually pay attention to my chat room, and have never tipped me a single token ever. I don't ever ask people to tip me for existing, but I won't give people all of my time and attention if they're not supporting me EVER, does that make sense?

That does make sense. And on the working site, that's fine. But I've already gone over the difference between the working site and the non-work site. Also, set your PMs to friends only, and charge for friend add, and you won't get guys randomly PMing you, unless they've paid for it.

 

[AerynShade]

 

[justjoinedtopost]

 

[SMuser69]

BTW if they aren't using camscore HOW are they sorting the models on this site? If it's by room count won't that be exploitable by bots?

 

[FifthElephant]

BTW if they aren't using camscore HOW are they sorting the models on this site? If it's by room count won't that be exploitable by bots?

Yes. Alphabetic is clearly as broken.

Some way to steer members to models they are more likely to tip is vital for a site like this, if they actually want long-term success, and not simply rely on MFC regs.

 

[AmberCutie]

When you have people talking about freeloaders on what is even being advertised to the models as a 'hangout/chill out site', well, you could have fooled me that some aren't expecting tips. The site isn't being advertised to models as another avenue of work; correct?

View attachment 71150

It says it right there. It's for models who just want to hang out with members. It also has the added benefit of being able to be tipped while hanging out. There's nothing in there that says it's another place to work and make money. In fact, according to the things Leo said about dress code, for lack of a better wording, and conduct on the site, many (not all) non-nude models wouldn't even do well there if they tried to turn that into their work. Many non-nude models still dress skimpy (string bikinis, underwear, extremely revealing tops/shorts but still not being nude), do sexy dances in those outfits, do wet t-shirt shows, etc. The top (mostly) non-nude model wouldn't be allowed to do her topics of hand bras, her sometimes topless groups, or her 5000 tokens before a topless true private (I did say she was mostly non nude). And she is in the top 50, now, and has over a 20k camscore. Even she couldn't transition to Cammunity and expect to make what she's making now, if she tried to do it as her work. The only non-nude models who could transition to Cammunity and still potentially make what they're making now are the ones who already do the whole PG-13 or under things now.

If the site was advertised to the models as another place to work, it would be different. But it isn't.



Yes, they can. But the site isn't advertised as a work site for models to make money. That's the key difference some are missing here.



Some of us do both. The difference is to which models we do these things for. I have a very select few models I tip just because (those I've known for 6 or so years, and have built up a rapport, mostly), and all the rest I'm tipping for something in return. Those are business transactions. That's how it works. If I am awake and come in your room when you're on (a rarity I'm awake that late anymore, since I'm an old fart), and I tip for a dice or card game or some other thing in your topic, that's still a business transaction. If I come in and do a tip with just a hi emote, that's a just because tip. If I tip with jokes in the tip notes, those are just because tips. That's the difference.



Again, it's not listed as a place to work. If models previously did hangout times on MFC, and didn't exactly care that it hurt their camscore, that was their choice. Now there is (will be when it actually launches, is probably better) an option to do that without the camscore drop. It becomes a win/win in those situations, especially if they get some tips while there. There's one model I could see moving exclusively there because she even puts in her topic never to tip her. She doesn't give a fuck about her camscore and just broadcasts while doing creative stuff on Twitch. It's a stretch to even call her a model anymore, since she actually hates getting tips, and her topics generally say go to Twitch to chat.



I don't have any reservations that some models will attempt to use it as a way to hustle for tips without the stress of lowering their camscore, and thus their placement on the MFC homepage. But unless they're Mary (CrazyM), Lovely Kitty, Bleu, and a select few others like maybe Nat (Loca_Loca_), they shouldn't be surprised if they don't get the hustle they think they will. But, again, it isn't being advertised to even models as a place to work and get their hustle on for those tokens. That's the key point that people are missing. If Leo changes his mind and starts telling models to use it as an alternative way to earn tokens, then that's different. As of now, though, he isn't..



On the working site, I agree. Again, Leo isn't forcing models to work on Cammunity. He isn't going to dock tokens or withhold paychecks for not using it. He may even provide incentives for using it early on. May. It's not like I know enough about Leo to fully grasp what goes on inside his head. But his comments so far don't bring any nefarious intentions.



You were still being paid for it. It was still a job. The Cammunity site isn't advertised as part of the job for models.

Take the flip side, though. Do you charge your real life friends to hang out with you?

Any model that is going to think of the hangout/chill site as part of the job should just stay on MFC. If they want to be tipped for their time, then that's part of the job... MFC is the job.



Do you also think every Twitch, Hitbox, or YouTube Gaming streamer should be getting paid for what they do on those sites? Do you also think every person who posts vids to YouTube should be getting paid for it?



Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Do you show up the majority of the time like this? Do the majority of models show up the majority of their time on cam like this? Does every model make more the times they do show up like that?

Personally, I prefer a more natural look. I'm not saying no makeup at all, but makeup that looks more natural. I'm not into bright lipstick, blush, and eyeshadow. Even on my favorite models, I get turned off if they overdo the makeup. But there's still a difference between a more natural look and looking like you literally rolled out of bed and decided to show up. But, that's me. Everyone is different.



Again, the hangout site vs the work site. I don't go to work and just hang out. If I'm at work, I'm on the clock. So, if a model wants to be on the clock, that's what MFC is for. If she's bored, lonely, etc. and just wants to hang out, that's what Cammunity is/will be for. That difference is major. If the majority of models look at the hangout site as just another part of the job, then the site will be about as popular as Chatgasm, which had a whopping 3 models online when I looked at it yesterday. The models that want it to be extra income will quickly get turned off by it because that's not what it is going for, right now. They'll decide that if they're on cam, they should be trying to earning tokens, and just stay on MFC.

As much as we can sit here and hear models talk about how they love their regs and the great friendships they've gotten, we're still seeing the attitude of #FuckYouPayMe cropping up when talking about a site that isn't advertised as a working site.



There are some that think they can start making tons of money on YouTube and Twitch. And you know how extremely disappointed and jaded they become very quickly when they aren't making enough to quit their jobs overnight (OK, that's hyperbole, but even within a few months)? Well over 99% of them. Anyone who goes into YouTube or Twitch with the myth in their head that they can just start making money hand over fist, because a select few are making money hand over fist, are deluding themselves. Isn't this something we constantly see being brought up here, too? New models wondering why they aren't suddenly making the big bucks like they think they should be? Same thing.



Hoping to make money off it, and expecting to make money off it are two entirely different things. I upload to YouTube, and I monetize my videos, yes. But, I'm now going to show you exactly how much money that has earned me over the past 5 YEARS of doing so. Yes, I'm going to show you exactly how much money I've made on YouTube, and I don't expect to know exactly how much you've made camming, or any other model for that matter. It's a question that's been asked of YouTube people a lot, especially recently. Are you ready to be shocked? I hope so.

View attachment 71161

FUCK YES! I'M RICH!



Absolutely false. You may know of the few big names on YouTube or Twitch that make really good money, but percentage wise, they're the exception, not the rule. Some fun statistics:

Over 1.5 million people stream to Twitch each month. Out of those 1.5 million, less than 12,000 are eligible to earn ad revenue, get bits, and have subs. That's under 1% of all streamers.

Twitch has started rolling out a new affiliate program, that allows small streamers who average 3+ viewers to now get bits (think tips/tokens). The amount of streamers who can average even 3 viewers per stream is still well under 10% of all streamers. Go look at any game, and see how quickly the viewing numbers drop off to 0, and just how many sit there streaming with 0 viewers. This is especially true for really popular games like CS:GO, Overwatch, and League of Legends. There can be thousands of streamers of those games at any given time, and the amount of 0 viewer streams is the vast majority of those streamers.

Just because streamers have donation links doesn't mean they are getting donations. Being an attractive female streamer increases the likelihood of getting donations, especially the boobie streamers as they are known (cleavage shirts, booty shorts, dance/write on themselves for donations... essentially trying to be cam girls without being cam girls); but even the majority of them aren't making any money..

View attachment 71162

52.62% of YouTube videos have under 500 views. 62.05% have under 1000 views.

The majority of YouTube channels have under 1000 subscribers.

YouTube's ad payout is fairly low to YouTube uploaders, and is based on per 1000 views (CPM), with more if people actually click on those ads (and we all know how rare that is online). It's generally around $1 per 1000 views where the ad is played all the way through (no hitting of skip ad or using ad blockers). Certain ads pay more, certain ads pay less; and there can be times when ads pay a much bigger payout (around $3/1000 views) when those are paid promotions by those advertisers.

Would you like to change your definition of "many"? SOME Twitch streamers and YouTube video makers are making good money. But they're the VAST MINORITY of people on those sites. Not everyone uploading to YouTube is PewDiePie. Not everyone streaming on Twitch is Summit1G. The amount of people making enough on Twitch or YouTube to earn their livings off those sites in extremely small. The amount of people able to supplement their income on those sites is only slightly larger. Most will never make enough to get their first payout.

But let's turn this around and see the amount of disagreement that comes up:

"Many cam models get paid a really good amount of money!"

I'm pretty sure we all know the shitstorm that arises when that claim is made.



Again. Cammunity. Is. Not. The. Work. Site. If any model is looking at Cammunity as providing a service, then they're going into it with the wrong mindset.



Most of them aren't getting paid. If they're putting ads on their videos, they're like me, and can't expect that first massive $100 payout for another 10 years. And with YouTube's clamping down on videos allowed to be monetized, as well as the overall lower CPM after a bunch of advertisers left, it could take even longer, now. This isn't even counting the totally broken ContentID system and the abuses that arise from it that allow scammers to try and take what little ad revenue most videos get (and I'll count Nintendo among these, since their ContentID claim abuses with zero regard for fair use is notorious by now).



Same question: Do you charge your friends to hang out with you?



Wouldn't know anything about that. Nope. No 12 hour long Zelda: Breath of the Wild streams from me... don't know what you're talking about..

View attachment 71165





So, I should expect donations on my Twitch/YouTube Gaming streams is what you're saying? I'm doing the same thing for my viewers, right? I'm also sat in an uncomfortable position, for hours on end. Should I also mention the $2500+ PC I built for recording and streaming, plus the new webcam, capture device, video editing software, etc., that I've done in the past year and few months? Or is it not really the same thing?



Depends on the model and the tipper. Go to Mary's room and watch the big tips fly. Half the time it's more of an epeen contest to show who can tip her more. Mary charges 5000 tokens before a true private, but regularly gets 10k tips without the member taking her private. I don't think she has videos for sale. It varies from model to model and tipper to tipper.

Go to any strip club. When you see guys throwing tons of money on stage, that isn't just because. It's a way to garner attention from the stripper. The hope is the stripper will come over and give attention to the big tipper. You can get the same on MFC, with those guys throwing around 1k+ tips willy nilly.



Business transactions.You don't expect models to just give away videos, do you? Should we expect models to just log on, get naked, and fuck themselves silly for 0 tips? This isn't a one way street, you know. Models expect compensation for whatever they're bringing. You can't then turn around and say members can't expect compensation for their money. We call that a double standard. If the member tips the price listed for something (flash, videos, etc.), then turns around and leaves the room before whatever countdown is done, that's fine. The business transaction has been completed successfully. The model has received payment, and the member has received whatever they tipped for (provided they get what they tipped for, which isn't always the case).



As we're seeing more models talking about freeloaders, and how they should be tipped for being on a hangout site... is it any wonder members have more skepticism?



I barely log onto MFC anymore. 1-2x every few weeks. My few favorite models and I talk over texts and other such, none of which I had to pay to get their numbers. They gave them to me, and it's not like I can afford to be uber-tipper. Cammunity, itself, interests me very little. I'd only ever consider going there, beyond checking it out yesterday, if my few favs were there and wanted me to see them on cam, live and just hang out with them. So, no, I'm not coming at this from the mindset of someone looking for entertainment. It has nothing to offer me, nor many other members (nor even models who want their boyfriends to join them on cam to hang out).



Judging from the talk I saw, yesterday, no, it isn't. Also, not even Harli could get her normal numbers while on there (she's normally a few hundred to over a thousand viewers at a time), and she made barely any tips there. And if a really popular model can't get the members to show up... then you know it's not for the majority of members.

Also, models are looking at it from a camscore/rank PoV, it seems. Some of them anyway. A way to raise camscore and rank, while not doing what they normally do (for the nude models). One even said she hates doing sexual things in this thread; to which I say "wrong line of work" (or at least she should have started out non-nude, not everyone can transition from nude to non-nude). It's like being a vegan and working in a slaughterhouse... wrong line of work.



With the expectation of being tipped on the non-work site. You said it yourself: if you're going to be on cam, you expect to get tips.



This completely contradicts what you said earlier:



You go from "then yes he should tip something" to "maybe earn a bit." Those are contradictory. The first expects the tip, the second is might earn some tips.



Voyeur fetish... sure, it's a thing. It's not massively popular, but it exists. Though I expect the inatratubez to explode if models couldn't show feet because to those foot fetish guys that is a sexual act.



Like I said earlier in here, except for a very select few extremely popular high camscore models, I wouldn't expect anyone to really even get close to those types of countdowns. That fear is pretty much unjustified unless Mary does it.



That does make sense. And on the working site, that's fine. But I've already gone over the difference between the working site and the non-work site. Also, set your PMs to friends only, and charge for friend add, and you won't get guys randomly PMing you, unless they've paid for it.

Holy fucking TL;DR, batman!

So I got through the first paragraph or few. But I've gotta say, relax, man, you're two tents.

Even on MFC they don't advertise as "a place to work" so stop throwing around that phrase like it's donuts to Homer Simpson.

I originally sided with your thoughts about freeloaders because I do feel the ultimate definition of freeloaders are ones who wait around for nudity/sexy shows without paying, but I can't get on board with your whole ideal here. If a model is spending time with her regulars who for years and years and years have said they value her time and don't even need sexy shows as incentive to tip, it is NOT out of the question to expect them to spend at least some tokens during your time broadcasting non-nude on Cammunity.

Go play some more Zelda!

 

[heybarkeep]

Had no intentions of learning that much today. Almost mad about it. More like Uncle Information.

 

[SophiaSophia]

rules have been updated - http://wiki.cammunity.com/wiki/Rules_for_Cammers

not sure how breast feeding got thrown in there (I know why)
but menstruating? hmmm...on a non nude site???? uhm- who thought this through?

 

[Gen]

Everyone who read @UncleThursday's whole post now has to tip for the entertainment

 

[FifthElephant]

not sure how breast feeding got thrown in there (I know why)
but menstruating? hmmm...on a non nude site???? uhm- who thought this through?

I guess in principle it can soak through otherwise 'adequate' clothing.

 

[SophiaSophia]

I guess in principle it can soak through otherwise 'adequate' clothing.

Im officially squigged out- ty for the mental image

you win the internet for today

 

[Vera]

I, for one, am super stoked about Cammunity. I have a few MFC regulars I am close with even though I haven't streamed seriously there since 2015. Like, 4+ years of friendship and have met them/consider them friend-friends. I transitioned to non-nude/femdom only in mid 2015 and they still hung out and tipped to geek about music, for stupid games and shots, etc. as recently as this past March or so. My CS is pretty much immaterial now but I am really stoked to have a way to do chill hangouts while I work on video ideas or am just bored without having the "pussy bb" morons up in my grill.

Dudes WILL tip you if you are entertaining and good company. Companionship is a huge factor and MFC already has that culture, as opposed to trying to work on Twitch or whatever.

I will be interested to see how the site pans out. I have no interest in going to Chaturbate because fuck that so I could see this having a really cool role, even as someone who now only does femdom.

 

[MFCFan]

I think they'll definitely need to change the way they monitor and ban/warn if they want to keep it clean enough to qualify as a non-adult site (which I imagine is important to them if they want to mainstream advertise and have legit app store apps, etc.) It'll probably take a while to find the right balance, but I look forward to seeing how it all pans out.

...or, for models who violate MFC ToS, they may be sentenced to "cammunity service"?!

So.Totally.Teasing!! ha ha

Preface: I did read the entire thread.

I think what I observed, mostly, is "I will try this out" coupled with some warranted pause for concern of abuse.

Both views are valid!!

Adding a legitimate venue which allows an *option* for any model to attain more tokens, based upon her own *individual* style, without *negatively* impacting her camscore is *brilliant* thinking, IMO.

Enabling this same option to inflate camscore seems counter-intuitive, and will likely result in seemingly harmless forms of use (which some may contrive as abuse), even within compliance of a most comprehensive list of site rules...again, IMO.

Based upon my early interpretation of the introduction: Cammunity could potentially be better viewed as working overtime. Yeah, you do get paid more for *optionally* putting in more hours, but your employer contributed medical/health benefits do not magically increase. The two systems are seemingly separate, in most regions.

I understand why MFC has a camscore system and wishes to reward profitability; Many employers have a similarly integrated employer provided reward benefit system.

I also understand why many people dislike camscore. Models put in *tons* of work, and *it is work*, but they feel neglected -- or that a member's favorite amazing model's hard work is not reflected by her camscore.

I understand, and appreciate, the difference in perception; I promise.

My vote is to please let cammunity become a forum where models can *optionally* participate, or not, for *extra* cash, in her own style, or not, while detaching it from employer provided benefits, such as camscore.

Everyone's mileage will vary...

Warm regards.

 

[Cutie_Kisses]

Again, Leo isn't forcing models to work on Cammunity

Amber already said this, but jeez, reading even a few words was such a waste, that now I can't help but waste a few more to reiterate.

Your argument being based around the word "work" is only disproving your point. Nobody is forcing models to work anywhere! Models choose to work regardless of which site they pick, it is still their place of occupation.

Even on MFC they don't advertise as "a place to work" so stop throwing around that phrase like it's donuts to Homer Simpson.