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MFC HD video test seen

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Jupiter551 said:
Well I'm not contradicting you because I really don't know, but thinking of video as a collection of still pictures in sequence to give the illusion of motion - wouldn't most animation be less than 10 frames per second?

Animation is significantly less fluid than film, video, or good webcam.
All TV and film is over 24fps.
As the gaps between the frames rise, the brain has to do more work to put these frames together - the illusion of fluid motion starts breaking down.
Some people see this worse than others.
 
No manycam?!! :eek: maybe this is an mfc conspiracy to get hid of all the huge distracting/moving tagging/banners.

I haver tried out streaming in HD yet bu watching other girls most of the time I can't even see the difference really. A few are very clear looking though, especially with the c910 (which seems to be the less flattering and less popular cam, not my gave either).

Can anyone tell me what a "good" enough upload speed for streaming HD?
 
The only real difference I've seen, is that one girl's cam who got a lot of "it's too dark" complaints, in HD, lost all of those complaints, despite the exact same lighting.And, to be honest, it did look brighter. Odd.
 
Traditio said:
Best cam i have seen so far with the new HD was Emprus - but she also had great lightning and cam before...

Yes, she looked great in HD. :glasses7:

By the way, other than cam settings and connection speed, how much does the computer itself make a difference?
 
HollieCakes said:
Can anyone tell me what a "good" enough upload speed for streaming HD?


As said further up the thread, Feedback from MFC said "Minimum recommended for HD is 500 kbps" in the video quality profile.

But i'm sure that includes a little margin,

If you get 400 or more it may still look ok. The one I saw at 438k did look fine except for the odd frame being dropped.
 
nzhere said:
HollieCakes said:
Can anyone tell me what a "good" enough upload speed for streaming HD?


As said further up the thread, Feedback from MFC said "Minimum recommended for HD is 500 kbps" in the video quality profile.

But i'm sure that includes a little margin,

If you get 400 or more it may still look ok. The one I saw at 438k did look fine except for the odd frame being dropped.

I'm confused by that, my upload speed is like 3.96 something like that?
 
HollieCakes said:
nzhere said:
HollieCakes said:
Can anyone tell me what a "good" enough upload speed for streaming HD?


As said further up the thread, Feedback from MFC said "Minimum recommended for HD is 500 kbps" in the video quality profile.

But i'm sure that includes a little margin,

If you get 400 or more it may still look ok. The one I saw at 438k did look fine except for the odd frame being dropped.

I'm confused by that, my upload speed is like 3.96 something like that?


that's mps - megapixels per second i think? - does anyone know the conversions mps to kbps so we can tell if we're close? Mine was 6.79mps and was having bad choppy feed and not as clear as others with the c910.
 
Sevrin said:
Traditio said:
Best cam i have seen so far with the new HD was Emprus - but she also had great lightning and cam before...

Yes, she looked great in HD. :glasses7:

By the way, other than cam settings and connection speed, how much does the computer itself make a difference?

People were trying to say that my computer isn't powerful enough to run the HD well enough. I highly doubt that is the case! When I am on skype it is actually very nice looking. I am not sure there is any REAL correlation between the two? Then again I know nothing about computers.

Regardless, I am still looking into getting a new computer. This one freaks out on me sometimes. :) I just hope they fix the issues with MFC and their HD soon, I am still getting the weird jumpy cam feed.
 
The thing is 640x480 isn't really even hd its a similar resolution to standard definition TV a modern pc should easily encode to H264. Anything with multiple cores / cpus will chew it up easily.

Most decent modern video cards support hardware decoding and encoding of H264 video this can also take the load off the processor. I'm not sure if flash 11 also supports hardware encoding using the video card yet.

Anything with multiple cores / processors + a video card (onboard video is usually NOT recommended) should work well in MFC.
 
amberdawnnude said:
that's mps - megapixels per second i think? - does anyone know the conversions mps to kbps so we can tell if we're close? Mine was 6.79mps and was having bad choppy feed and not as clear as others with the c910.

It only matters what shows in the "Video quality profile" in the model software I assume you mean 679 kbps? it should of been fine at that rate.

I fixed a models C910 earlier, what a difference to the framerate and clarity it made turning off the Splitcam software that she was using! If you have Splitcam or ManyCam turn them off!!!

:think: need new forum section ? pchelp?
 
I have a totally different problem. Since I downloaded Adobe Flash 11, so I can run MFC HD, my Facebook games are not loading :evil: Does anyone have the same issue?
 
Has anyone here noticed video stuttering on models rooms since the HD feature was taken down? It doesn't happen in all rooms but I have noticed it in quite a few. The issue could be best described as a Max Headroom video stutter but with the audio still sounding normal. I'm trying to rule out some possibilities but I want to know if anyone here has even noticed it.
 
Mr_Wilde said:
Has anyone here noticed video stuttering on models rooms since the HD feature was taken down? It doesn't happen in all rooms but I have noticed it in quite a few. The issue could be best described as a Max Headroom video stutter but with the audio still sounding normal. I'm trying to rule out some possibilities but I want to know if anyone here has even noticed it.
Occasionally, I've seen this. But I've seen it pre-HD too.
 
I've only noticed it become more prominent after the HD feeds were pulled and it's not a constant stutter glitch either. I'll try to find a room today as an example. I'm wondering if it's limited to girls with HD cams or not. Oh and if there is any question about my bandwidth I'm hard wired and currently riding a downstream of 25Mbps. It's happening on all three of my machines so I'm ruling out it's an issue on my side.
 
The video stutter is because of the h264 codec, which works compressing video files by "predicting" the movement in video. When the model moves differently as what the codec predicted, the codec tries to correct the trajectory and that causes the "stutter" and it looks like a choppy feed. It happens when the image is too compressed, which is caused by slow connections or too heavy input images. Its a bit hard to explain but I hope it was understable enough
 
Tambourine said:
The video stutter is because of the h264 codec, which works compressing video files by "predicting" the movement in video. When the model moves differently as what the codec predicted, the codec tries to correct the trajectory and that causes the "stutter" and it looks like a choppy feed. It happens when the image is too compressed, which is caused by slow connections or too heavy input images. Its a bit hard to explain but I hope it was understable enough

Is there any way to correct it? One of the models I visit has a bad case of it sometimes.
 
So is this an issue on MFC's end or the model's end? Again it's quite odd this happened or became noticeable either during or after MFC pulled the HD feed. The whole chat room notices it when it does happen. I'm wondering of the flash update on the model's side in order to run the HD setting on the model's MFC browser may have contributed to this.

All the models I've seen that have never did the update don't seem to be experiencing this problem that I've noticed. I'm still checking rooms or known models that did the update vs. models that never did and everything seems to be pointing to that. This is just my hypothesis and the general conclusion for what some of my friends in the same rooms have postulated.
 
Tambourine said:
The video stutter is because of the h264 codec, which works compressing video files by "predicting" the movement in video. When the model moves differently as what the codec predicted, the codec tries to correct the trajectory and that causes the "stutter" and it looks like a choppy feed. It happens when the image is too compressed, which is caused by slow connections or too heavy input images. Its a bit hard to explain but I hope it was understable enough

This is not the case at the moment, the video is being broadcast in FLV, not h264.
I'd also question this - what happens usually is that if it mispredicts, then you get a blurry frame or two.
 
FifthElephant said:
Tambourine said:
The video stutter is because of the h264 codec, which works compressing video files by "predicting" the movement in video. When the model moves differently as what the codec predicted, the codec tries to correct the trajectory and that causes the "stutter" and it looks like a choppy feed. It happens when the image is too compressed, which is caused by slow connections or too heavy input images. Its a bit hard to explain but I hope it was understable enough

This is not the case at the moment, the video is being broadcast in FLV, not h264.
I'd also question this - what happens usually is that if it mispredicts, then you get a blurry frame or two.

Yeah I'm gonna have to agree with you. I don't believe this is an issue with the h264 codec. I'm almost certain it's a flash issue but I'm not 100% positive yet. I'm still trying to analyze the models rooms that did the update for HD but I don't know which ones did and which ones didn't. I'm thinking this issue only isolated to these models. If Hailey would come on I'd be able to see if she has the same problem. ;)
 
So far the only short term remedy I've seen which is hit or miss is the basic model refresh. I'd like to tell the model to go back to the older flash version but that might be a task for her.
 
FifthElephant said:
Tambourine said:
The video stutter is because of the h264 codec, which works compressing video files by "predicting" the movement in video. When the model moves differently as what the codec predicted, the codec tries to correct the trajectory and that causes the "stutter" and it looks like a choppy feed. It happens when the image is too compressed, which is caused by slow connections or too heavy input images. Its a bit hard to explain but I hope it was understable enough

This is not the case at the moment, the video is being broadcast in FLV, not h264.
I'd also question this - what happens usually is that if it mispredicts, then you get a blurry frame or two.

FLV is a format and h264 is a codec. FLV video format in cases uses the h264 codec to compress info in video files, on some other cases it uses other kinds of codecs. I dont know if MFC uses this codec at the moment, I know that is the go-to codec for hd streaming (because is the best working codec to compress heavy files without losing quality) but no idea about mfc's current sd streaming. Blurry frames are caused by the camera's sensor not the compression, its caused when the model moves faster than the time it takes for the sensor to create the image, so the pixels are moved and repeated which causes the blurriness. The video stutter cause by too compress images is not fixable but it is preventable, you'll just need not to move so much, which is dumb but well real. This stutter issue is actually one of the biggest concerns about video technology because it doesnt have a solution yet, and it one of the biggest downsides of digital video as an evolving format.
 
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Tambourine said:
FifthElephant said:
Tambourine said:
The video stutter is because of the h264 codec, which works compressing video files by "predicting" the movement in video. When the model moves differently as what the codec predicted, the codec tries to correct the trajectory and that causes the "stutter" and it looks like a choppy feed. It happens when the image is too compressed, which is caused by slow connections or too heavy input images. Its a bit hard to explain but I hope it was understable enough

This is not the case at the moment, the video is being broadcast in FLV, not h264.
I'd also question this - what happens usually is that if it mispredicts, then you get a blurry frame or two.

FLV is a format and h264 is a codec. FLV video format in cases uses the h264 codec to compress info in video files, on some other cases it uses other kinds of codecs. I dont know if MFC uses this codec at the moment, I know that is the go-to codec for hd streaming (because is the best working codec to compress heavy files without losing quality) but no idea about mfc's current sd streaming. Blurry frames are caused by the camera's sensor not the compression, its caused when the model moves faster than the time it takes for the sensor to create the image, so the pixels are moved and repeated which causes the blurriness. The video stutter cause by too compress images is not fixable but it is preventable, you'll just need not to move so much, which is dumb but well real. This stutter issue is actually one of the biggest concerns about video technology because it doesnt have a solution yet, and it one of the biggest downsides of digital video as an evolving format.
Your geekiness is such a turn-on. :whistle:
 
Tambourine said:
FifthElephant said:
Tambourine said:
The video stutter is because of the h264 codec, which works compressing video files by "predicting" the movement in video. When the model moves differently as what the codec predicted, the codec tries to correct the trajectory and that causes the "stutter" and it looks like a choppy feed. It happens when the image is too compressed, which is caused by slow connections or too heavy input images. Its a bit hard to explain but I hope it was understable enough

This is not the case at the moment, the video is being broadcast in FLV, not h264.
I'd also question this - what happens usually is that if it mispredicts, then you get a blurry frame or two.

FLV is a format and h264 is a codec. FLV video format in cases uses the h264 codec to compress info in video files, on some other cases it uses other kinds of codecs. I dont know if MFC uses this codec at the moment, I know that is the go-to codec for hd streaming (because is the best working codec to compress heavy files without losing quality) but no idea about mfc's current sd streaming. Blurry frames are caused by the camera's sensor not the compression, its caused when the model moves faster than the time it takes for the sensor to create the image, so the pixels are moved and repeated which causes the blurriness. The video stutter cause by too compress images is not fixable but it is preventable, you'll just need not to move so much, which is dumb but well real. This stutter issue is actually one of the biggest concerns about video technology because it doesnt have a solution yet, and it one of the biggest downsides of digital video as an evolving format.

I bow at your feet.
 
Okay, I understand what you're saying but until just over a week ago why was this never an issue in this one particular model's room? I bought her C910 back in Dec and I can't remember one time I've seen her video feed stutter in the past 8-9 months since she's had it. Again it's not an isolated issue with just her. By what you're saying if the stutter is attributed to high compression than when is it happening while MFC's HD feed is disabled?

I've Skype'd with this model before and throughout the HD preview weekend for MFC I've never once seen the video stutter at all. There were a few moments of latency but never video stuttering and if there was and I've missed it, it was not as bad as it is now.
 
Mr_Wilde said:
By what you're saying if the stutter is attributed to high compression than when is it happening while MFC's HD feed is disabled?

What may be disabled is the option for models to transmit in HD. We don't know whether MFC is back to how it was before this test started or whether the change in how the site is transmitting video has changed permanently.
 
Tambourine said:
FLV is a format and h264 is a codec. FLV video format in cases uses the h264 codec to compress info in video files, on some other cases it uses other kinds of codecs.

To clarify my earlier statement.
The current codec in use is the sorenson h.263 one, also known as 'flv'.
This is the one that's been used for a long time, and not the h.264 codec used briefly during the trials for both 640*480 and some 320*240 content.
Tambourine said:
Blurry frames are caused by the camera's sensor not the compression, its caused when the model moves faster than the time it takes for the sensor to create the image, so the pixels are moved and repeated which causes the blurriness. The video stutter cause by too compress images is not fixable but it is preventable, you'll just need not to move so much, which is dumb but well real. This stutter issue is actually one of the biggest concerns about video technology because it doesnt have a solution yet, and it one of the biggest downsides of digital video as an evolving format.

This is somewhat true - and somewhat misleading.
There is blur which is caused by the camera shutter - yes.
However, the other cause of both blur and jerkiness is due to the fact that the video codec is trying to convert the stream of incoming frames into a sequence of bits which go out through the models internet in a smooth stream.

The problem arises when a large change occurs in the picture, or changes happen at too fast a rate - the image breaks down not due to motion blur, but doe to the codec not having enough bits to encode all the changes in the image.
This causes texture in fast-moving areas to dissapear, blockiness, and other artifacts.

There is no problem with stutter with properly setup digital video codecs.
It only occurs if there is not enough CPU to compress the image properly - if there is some problem with the video hardware or drivers causing it to miss frames, or if the codec is misconfigured.

With proper digital video, the codec takes one frame, analyses it, spits out some bits as to how it changed from the last frame, and repeats. (with keyframes every so often to cope with major changes, or file corruption).
One frame in = one frame out - there isn't any room for jerkiness.

With random models cameras and random CPU, it's a bit more complex.
Is the camera and its driver properly delivering frames to the codec, is the bandwidth too large for the upload capabilities of the models line, is the CPU adequate to encode each frame on-time, so it doesn't run out of the limited sound buffer, and be desynced from it, causing it to skip frames?
...

How much of this is under MFCs control is somewhat questionable.
It may well be lots better if they could get with - say - manycams - and produce a simple uploader for video, which diddn't rely on anything to do with flash.

As to changes - MFC can do some configuration of the flash stream from the model - they have to be to be able to set the profile of the models stream. Changes in this configuration might include min/max framerates, and other parameters, which may make some models cameras seem better, and others worse than they were before.
 
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