Man Tricked Pregnant Girlfriend

[bawksy]

A woman can abort whether the man wants her to or not. So shouldn't she be able to get pregnant whether he wants her to or not?
Or is getting pregnant against a mans want worse than aborting when the man doesn't want her to?

That's changing the subject from child support to pregnancy in general. I'm not sure I feel any differently, but it does change the severity of it. If there was no such thing as child support , and a woman stole my sperm and got pregnant on it without my permission, I would certainly still be emotionally affected. But the financial repercussions of having to pay child support against your will is astronomical. So no, regardless of whether she is legally "able", a woman should ethically NOT get pregnant without the father's permission.

As to the question of whether it is worse to create a child for a man without his permission or to kill his child without his permission - those scenarios are so different as to not even be able to compare the two.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

A woman can abort whether the man wants her to or not. So shouldn't she be able to get pregnant whether he wants her to or not?
Or is getting pregnant against a mans want worse than aborting when the man doesn't want her to?

you rock miss megan... have i said that lately?

Thank you! I enjoyed your response. It was honest and got me thinking.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

A woman can abort whether the man wants her to or not. So shouldn't she be able to get pregnant whether he wants her to or not?
Or is getting pregnant against a mans want worse than aborting when the man doesn't want her to?

sure she can, use one of those clinics that specialize in that sort of thing. artificial insemenation yo. use it. but don't force it on a man. but in the context of being in a relationship and a less than scrupulous woman, there has to be something in the law about access to seman without consent.
if your man doesn't want to be a father, find someone else who does.


I don't quite understand what you're asking wtih your 2nd question.

So you're saying that a woman should be able to abort without a mans consent, but not get pregnant without a mans consent? Doesn't that seem like a contradiction to you? If it's really "her body, her choice," then it should be her choice to get pregnant without the mans consent. (Not referring to rape, but consensual sex where a guy is "tricked" into getting her pregnant)

 

[PlayboyMegan]

That's changing the subject from child support to pregnancy in general.

Yup. Often times a conversation does that. For example, I could say, "My cat wore a blue hat." Then you say, "The sky is also blue." It's changing the subject, but is still relevant to the conversation.

As to the question of whether it is worse to create a child for a man without his permission or to kill his child without his permission - those scenarios are so different as to not even be able to compare the two.

I disagree. I think they share parallels.

 

[CharlotteLace]

If a woman gets pregnant against a man's consent, using his sperm, he's still financially obligated to that child.
If a woman aborts against a man's consent, well, that's pretty upsetting and he should probably find somebody else to love.

One choice ends in a lot of emotional turmoil, but the other ends up as 18 years of child support, which the man may or may not be able to afford. I'd say purposefully getting pregnant and forcing a man into a financial duty that he can't opt out of is pretty fucked up on the woman's part.

She has the right to get pregnant if she wants. That's what sperm banks are for. If she knows her boyfriend doesn't want a child, she doesn't have the right to supersede his wishes while still expecting him to pay for her decision.

 

[LadyLuna]

Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying. I see absolutely no reason why any person should have intercourse, as most people understand it in the traditional sense, if they do not want children. They can go without, pick a different hole or have outercourse only.

Sex is NOT something anyone needs to survive. Sure it's nice but it's not like water or oxygen. If you're old enough to copulate, you're old enough to figure out a way to get your jollies without having vaginal intercourse if you don't want children.

Personally, I prefer dick outside of the vag so I'll always argue for no sex or outercourse only.

80% of my sex life is non penetrative and I'd say it's pretty damn awesome so I don't see why there has to be penetration. It's not something I understand or think is necessary. Imo, if you're having sex and don't want to have a baby/don't trust your partner/fill in the blank then non-penetrative sex is a fantastic option.

Sex doesn't have to include penetration. There's nothing wrong with creativity as a means of being careful. We'll just have to agree to disagree because my go to answer will always be don't have vaginal sex if you don't want to get pregnant (speaking of only consensual sex).

Edit: sex for intimacy is a foreign concept to me. I don't understand it and have never done it.

I am a very physical person, and I'm quite emotionally unstable when I don't get penetrative sex. While cuddling is nice, and grinding is fun, too long without having a dick penetrate my vagina makes me very bitchy, very argumentative, and in general not a nice person to be around. Plus, it's the number 1 easiest way to help me relax.

I get that you don't understand sex for intimacy, but my intimacy is inextricably tied to my sexuality. I can't help it. Maybe it's because of what my mother did to me when I was little, I don't know. I just know that once I've had penetrative sex with someone, they are in my heart forever, and without that, I can deal just fine without them in my life. Without penetration, a person can't get any closer to me than friendship. Would you deny me romance just because you don't need sex for it? I don't want kids at this point in time, but I'm not sure that won't change in the future. I do use birth control, and we avoid the times when it's biologically more risky, but please don't ask me to stop fucking just because you think people who don't want kids shouldn't have sex. Or are you volunteering to come hold me when I curl up in the corner trying not to scream?

 

[Kunra9]

As for the "he made his choice when he fucked her".. really? Seriously? You're saying that any man who doesn't want to have kids needs to remain completely celibate, only ever masturbating, never knowing the pleasures of a real pussy? Keep in mind, you're asking that he remain single too, because very few couples can maintain a good relationship with no sex. So if a man doesn't want any kids, he needs to remain completely single and never fuck a pussy? I call bullshit on that. You don't say that every woman who doesn't want to get pregnant must remain single and can't have a dick in her.

Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying. I see absolutely no reason why any person should have intercourse, as most people understand it in the traditional sense, if they do not want children. They can go without, pick a different hole or have outercourse only.

Sex is NOT something anyone needs to survive. Sure it's nice but it's not like water or oxygen. If you're old enough to copulate, you're old enough to figure out a way to get your jollies without having vaginal intercourse if you don't want children.

Personally, I prefer dick outside of the vag so I'll always argue for no sex or outercourse only.

I haven't read past this post, so forgive me if somebody else said it...

But by this logic, you are also anti-abortion right?

If two consenting adults have sex, and a pregnancy occurs, they should be forced to have the child even if neither adult wants to keep the baby. Because if they didn't want kids they should have not had intercourse.

 

[Kunra9]

Ok so my response to the original topic...

Dude is a scumbag piece of shit.

But 14 years compared to plea-bargain murder cases now seems about right.

Some people say a life sentence, but even a 14 year is pretty much a life sentence.

Any place that runs a background check will see that. He's pretty much worthless to society from here on out.

Going by how the laws work, and how the laws are written currently, dude should have just manned up. Better to have an 18 year financial obligation, than a 14 year prison term.


My personal stance, and how I would personally react in this situation.

If I'm having a "fling" with a girl, and an accidental pregnancy occurs. Considering this is not a woman I am emotionally invested in, I would voice my opinion that I would want her to terminate the pregnancy. I may strongly voice this opinion. However, I would still leave the ultimate decision up to her. If she decides to abort, I'm paying for half the abortion. If she decides to keep it, it's kind of heartless but I would ask for a DNA test just to make sure, then I would be a father to the child. I would be there emotionally and financially for the child. I would be an awesome dad. I would do everything for the kid.

If I was in a serious relationship with a girl. In love perhaps. True emotional investment. It would be a completely different situation for me. With my ex, whom I dated for a number of years, I would not have hesitated at the idea of having a baby with her. If she had gotten pregnant, abortion would have been the furthest thing from my mind. In that relationship I was ready for anything and everything. Marriage, kids, all that stuff. I would have tried to talk her OUT of an abortion. To me, if I am that involved, I am ready to have a family with her as well.

 

[bawksy]

But by this logic

Stop right there. That's not the kind of logic we're accustomed to using on these forums.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

In the discussion about what mens rights should be....

Not talking about the kind of pregnancy's that occur when women steal sperm, but accidental pregnancies, from condom leaks/breakings, not using a condom, failure of any birth control, and even when a woman doesn't religiously take her pills, which although some may think comes under forced pregnancies I don't think so, most of the time the pill covers missed pills being taken, and at the end of the day I don't think it should be completely down to the woman, the man chose to not use a condom and to put it all on her (Though I also believe the woman should inform him that she hasn't taken her pills properly).

It is the woman's body, and she'll generally be the person forced to live with her decision for the rest of her life, whether she decides to keep it or terminate. So although I would consult my partner about this, I would make the best decision for the child, if that meant not bringing it into the world then so be it. I don't think that should ever be argued, forcing a woman to either abort a child they want or keep a child they don't want/be forced through pregnancy is disgusting and shouldn't even be discussed.

As for the men's contributions into this, I think it should be entirely situation based. I believe if a man says from the start he doesn't want the child then he should, during a time that the woman could still get an abortion, make it legal that he has zero rights towards the child and will not pay child support towards it, that the child will have nothing to do with him. And then in future if the mother still doesn't choose to abort if he communicates with the woman she alone decides whether to allow him back into the child's life, at this point if he wanted things to be changed he would need to pay child support not just for the child's remaining years, but for the years he opted out of. But if he never comes back the child will be fatherless, and hopefully the mother will get some sort of extra state finances.

I think if the father does not choose to do this within the timezone then he should be stuck to paying financial support. If it's a case of the mother not informing him she's pregnant when she knows herself, so long as he has evidence of this if he wants to opt out I think he should still be able to. I think if the mother herself doesn't know she's pregnant until past the time of abortions being an option (this happened to a friend of mine) then it's down to her and him if the father is going to be involved. If he doesn't want to be involved it may be in her interests to be able to revoke him of any rights as a parent there and then even if it means not getting any financial support from him, but if she does want the financial support then if she has no option of abortion then I think he needs to suck it up and pay as they're both in the position of having no choice in the matter, but in this situation I think he should have full rights as a father.

Parenthood shouldn't ever be a one foot in, one foot out, thing. You should make your decisions early on and stick to them. And if you decide you want to change your mind later on then it should only be with the consent of the other party. Otherwise you're just asking for disaster.
Two of my best friends have 4 year olds with no fathers. They're both happy, well behaved boys. One of the fathers I think is totally psychotic and legally isn't allowed anywhere near the child or her, and the other has never been involved. They are young still, but I think if a father kept turning up every now and then it would cause both children upset, confusion and pain. They know their family, they know their mothers friends and both are happy having single mothers. Because I live in the Uk the benefit system is good for these situations, though they also both work. No fathers or extra money needed.

I have a friend who about 4 and a half years ago was sleeping with his ex girlfriend on off. I remember him telling me about how she's pregnant and had been missing pills. He said how he felt it was unfair because he never got a choice in the matter. He hadn't known she was missing pills. They had been together for a long time but at this point they were broken up, and as many broken up couples do it takes a while to totally end the relationship. I wonder if she missed pills deliberately, perhaps to try and get him back, and I think he has wondered about this also. He didn't want the child, but he also got excited about it and stepped up to the task, and he loves the child very much. Him and the ex never got back together, he continued his life, but with the child in it. In fact I'm pretty sure he changed his aims because of him. I haven't seen him for a few years now, so besides speaking to him a few times a year on the phone I'm not too up to date, but as far as I can tell his life is happier for the child being in it. I don't think it's financially hindered him or done really anything negative to him besides made him grow up a bit.

Sometimes children really shouldn't be brought into the world, and some people shouldn't be parents. But for many people having a child they never thought they wanted can make them as a person. My best friend who now has a child didn't know about her pregnancy until 6 months, before that she was nuts, always getting into fights, taking a lot of drugs. Probably about the last person you'd think would be a good mother. Since then she totally cleaned up her act, hasn't been in a fight since, rarely goes out. Her child is the happiest, sweetest, best behaved child I've ever been around. If she hadn't had him she'd be a very different person, would probably be in prison for something. Because she was forced to have him her life has changed in every way for the better, and she's the best mother I've ever seen.
I think sometimes life throws you what looks like a bad hand of cards, rather than moaning about it and chucking the cards away people should embrace them and turn what was a bad situation into a good one. Shit happens, take responsibility, grow up and deal with it.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

He deserved the punishment he got, maybe more.

With that said, I find it to be a very complicated issue with no right answer because scenarios and situations change. I suppose it would be too much for me to say that the man and woman should come to an agreement on the what if she gets pregnant even if they take the precautions and she still got pregnant before they even have sex. And also we know how often people change their minds after the fact. So I guess all said and done- be very very careful on who you choose to have sex with.

 

[bawksy]

be very very careful on who you choose to have sex with.

Fantastic advice that is generally lost on those who are young, dumb, and full of cum.

 

[Crumb]

A woman can abort whether the man wants her to or not. So shouldn't she be able to get pregnant whether he wants her to or not?
Or is getting pregnant against a mans want worse than aborting when the man doesn't want her to?

sure she can, use one of those clinics that specialize in that sort of thing. artificial insemination yo. use it. but don't force it on a man. but in the context of being in a relationship and a less than scrupulous woman, there has to be something in the law about access to semen without consent.
if your man doesn't want to be a father, find someone else who does.


I don't quite understand what you're asking wtih your 2nd question.

So you're saying that a woman should be able to abort without a mans consent, but not get pregnant without a mans consent? Doesn't that seem like a contradiction to you? If it's really "her body, her choice," then it should be her choice to get pregnant without the mans consent. (Not referring to rape, but consensual sex where a guy is "tricked" into getting her pregnant)

the issue isn't quite so black and white, it's more grey-ish and I stand by my statement.
I do believe that any person should not be able to force a woman to terminate a pregnancy... and shouldn't be able to force her to carry to term. her body her choice. I may not like her choices, but those are her choices to make.

I also believe that a man has rights (or should have rights) when it comes to his semen when it comes to reproduction. if given that a woman wants to abort and the man wants to keep it, then it must be said that we live in a day and age where there are medical options that must be taken into consideration, and if there is a procedure available that isn't any more invasive than a abortion, then it has be explored.

If a woman has to be trick-some in order to get pregnant, then in my most humble opinion, she's crossing an ethical boundary, so yes, she needs consent. However, If she already pulled the wool over my eyes and the deed is done, then there's not much I can do.

hope i was articulate enough

 

[AllisonWilder]

I also believe that a man has rights (or should have rights) when it comes to his semen when it comes to reproduction. if given that a woman wants to abort and the man wants to keep it, then it must be said that we live in a day and age where there are medical options that must be taken into consideration, and if there is a procedure available that isn't any more invasive than a abortion, then it has be explored.

I also believe that a man should have rights and I believe that he deserves to be heard. I lived this situation. When I found out I was pregnant, I wanted to abort and the father pleaded with me to carry so he could raise the baby on his own*. I don't understand how everything leading up to pregnancy can be a "we" decision (as in we made a choice to have sex, we screwed up (condom broke, birth control mishap, plan b failed) we got pregnant) and then as soon as a woman is pregnant it's 100% up to her as to how the next 9 months and 18 years goes. I believe both invested parties deserve a say in how things go.


*I changed my mind and we are now raising an (almost) 3-year old together.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

When I found out I was pregnant, I wanted to abort and the father pleaded with me to carry so he could raise the baby on his own*.

The difficult situation with this is people often say they are willing to take care of a child and then change their minds later on. It's very easy as someone who's not physically carrying a child, who won't go through the physical and hormonal changes that childbirth causes, to decide rather rashly that they want to keep a child and would be willing to raise it without the mother's help. In your situation it clearly worked out as you're still together and are raising it together. And I think if I got pregnant, if my boyfriend really felt he were ready, and financially we were doing ok then it might convince me to go down that road. In a situation where I'm in a serious relationship then it'd definitely be a "we" decision. Obviously I'd have the final say on it, but I would make sure my partner were happy with the outcome. If I were single/not involved with the father then although I would still speak to him about it, I would be getting an abortion. I also know that if I got pregnant at this time I would get an abortion. I'm not financially secure, I have no interest in children and have a load of things I'd like to do with life, and the idea of pregnancy, childbirth and children not only terrifies me, but doesn't remotely appeal to me. I would like children one day, when I'm ready, and I'd like to do it right. Having a child now would probably mess up that plan. I have spoken with my boyfriend about it and we're on the same wavelength, which does make life easier.

I think in any situation the rational thing to do is empathise with your partner's wishes, and be rational. If you're a guy and your girlfriend wants an abortion, but could also be swayed otherwise, then sure, persuade her, show her you'll be there for her and stick to it, but if she is adamant about it and really doesn't want the child then let it go. If you want children then there'll be other moments, bringing a child into the world when the mother really doesn't want it because of your own reasons is not only selfish but extremely cruel on both mother and child. It wouldn't be rational to fight it so hard.
If it's the opposite and the woman wants to keep it yet the man doesn't... well, I think men should step so carefully on this, one thing I've learned from pregnant women is if they're on the fence then trying to push them one way will push them the other way. Try threatening a pregnant woman's child and her instincts will kick in and she'll probably decide to keep it. When men get really pushy about abortions (which is understandable as they're scared), women get upset, on the defence etc. Men need to remember not to be dicks about it. When a woman is pregnant her body is telling her to keep the baby, getting an abortion often makes rational sense, but it does go away from nature.
Men seem to have much better luck telling a woman to keep a baby than telling her to get rid of it. Telling her to get rid of it... yeah... not a good idea.