Is it okay? / Camming and morals

[LilyMarie]

Thanks for all of your answers! I hope that one day I'll be able to think like most of you do! ray:

Do you ever question what we do on a moral level? Do you ever feel like it's just wrong?......

I'd like to ask you Lily,.... do you ever have your doubts ? IMHO, for anyone to be concerned with this thought process, there is usually a root thought that is unspoken.

Yes. My mother found out about what I do a couple of weeks ago. One of her main arguments against it were the members who were married and/or fathers. (I lied and told her I'd stopped shortly before my 1st payment and said there hasn't been any nudity in my room, and there were no consequences, just in case anyone wants to know. Of course I kept on camming after that.)

Anyway, what she said was that surely there must have been a lot of family men or married men watching, and how dare I take part in maybe ruining someone's relationship. I said that it was up to everyone on their own to not do things that might harm their relationship, but of course she didn't listen.
That really upset me and I admit I felt like a bad person for some time. Those thoughts still haunt me sometimes and I wish I could get rid of them.

 

[Jupiter551]

Yes. My mother found out about what I do a couple of weeks ago. One of her main arguments against it were the members who were married and/or fathers. (I lied and told her I'd stopped shortly before my 1st payment and said there hasn't been any nudity in my room, and there were no consequences, just in case anyone wants to know. Of course I kept on camming after that.)

Anyway, what she said was that surely there must have been a lot of family men or married men watching, and how dare I take part in maybe ruining someone's relationship. I said that it was up to everyone on their own to not do things that might harm their relationship, but of course she didn't listen.
That really upset me and I admit I felt like a bad person for some time. Those thoughts still haunt me sometimes and I wish I could get rid of them.

I think it's kind of sweetly naive that your mother thinks that way, and it would be an admirable stance if the logic weren't flawed.

The fact is, as others have stated, guys will get adult-oriented stress-relief online regardless of whether you or anyone else makes a living webcamming. Some of those guys will get busted by their spouses, and some of those spouses will consider it "cheating".

In almost every type of commerce there's a possibility of selling things that could do others harm, in the wrong hands. If you sell washing detergent, how do you know it won't be used to make a bomb? If you're a pharmacist how do you know your medicines won't be abused. If you're a car salesman should you quiz a potential customer to make sure she doesn't drunk drive?

No one can control what others do with their free will, if a guy leaves his wife and kids (not to elope with you) for some reason because of camming, you're not an accomplice, or an accessory, or even an enabler. You were just in the wrong place when the shit went down.

 

[Shaun__]

Anyway, what she said was that surely there must have been a lot of family men or married men watching, and how dare I take part in maybe ruining someone's relationship. I said that it was up to everyone on their own to not do things that might harm their relationship, but of course she didn't listen.
That really upset me and I admit I felt like a bad person for some time. Those thoughts still haunt me sometimes and I wish I could get rid of them.

Please do not feel bad over the fact that some men are horndogs. This is something I ask women about sometimes trying to understand it. Why is it the other woman's fault if a man cheats? I ask because your mother implies you are ruining someones relationship by existing. You are not tying the man down and forcing yourself on him.

 

[ViruSphere]

MFC can cry "this isn't porn, this isn't porn" yadda yadda yadda, but the bottom line is that unless you're a 100% non-nude model, MFC is a pornsite. Whether it's softcore or hardcore depends on the model, but it's still a pornsite. In a committed relationship it's an almost certainty that one or both partners will look at Internet porn because of how easy it is to access it.

If one partner considers looking at porn (including MFC) to be cheating, then said partner has serious insecurity issues.

 

[LadyLuna]

It does make me slightly uncomfortable to think that my boyfriend watches porn. On an abstract level, I don't mind, and actually think it's natural, but when I catch him in the act, a part of me feels hurt.

But I know that is because of insecurities and trust issues. I know that if I knew for a fact that he was as much mine as I am his, I wouldn't mind him watching at all.

 

[BCamden]

I don't feel guilty about being a camgirl, but that's because I'm not one - I'm one of the PLs.

 

[GuilTPleasure]

May I ask if your mom is very religious Lily? I'm not judging dear but the statement of how you could be contributing to the failures of marriages and couples comes alot from the religious right. I have heard story after story of men getting caught viewing porn and the wife then runs to the church..the men then say they have an addiction which takes the blame off of him to a point. How easy is it for the man to take less responsibility when they can just blame the women in porn. I mean its the old switch and bait trick. It's is also easier for the wives to point the finger at us instead of believing who their spouse or boyfriend really is. I think I could go on and on about this subject but I will say this when I find out someone in my room is married and says something about getting in trouble I try and get them to open up about it. I have problem chatted with 30 or more men about the problems in there marriage. It's very interesting and makes me want to become a sex therapist Be well all

 

[msktty89]

I guess I'm just very open in general.

As many have said, it's not a cam girl's job to protect other peoples' marriages. They are doing their job and I love the point that was made about how good things can get abused.

My little family here is very open-minded. I have a husband (together for 7 years, married for a bit over two of those) and a live-in boyfriend that also dates my husband. My side of the family is aware of our 'situation' and 'orientation' and is highly supportive and considers our boyfriend family, too, now (we'll have been dating a year soon!).

That said, I feel nothing wrong being shared, or sharing others, sexually. If people want to see me naked, who cares? I guess I don't think it's that big of a deal. I understand jealousy a lot, I am not one to never have it, but I like to evaluate why I or someone else feels that way and find proactive ways to deal with it.

I do feel that a lot of the negative feelings towards porn is from the religious (though I feel some is also from those with low self-esteem, having been one when I was younger), but that's just my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to share it. :twocents-02cents:

I am a bit tired, so I hope that all came out okay. :lol:

 

[Erragal]

Thanks for all of your answers! I hope that one day I'll be able to think like most of you do! ray:

Do you ever question what we do on a moral level? Do you ever feel like it's just wrong?......

I'd like to ask you Lily,.... do you ever have your doubts ? IMHO, for anyone to be concerned with this thought process, there is usually a root thought that is unspoken.

Yes. My mother found out about what I do a couple of weeks ago. One of her main arguments against it were the members who were married and/or fathers. (I lied and told her I'd stopped shortly before my 1st payment and said there hasn't been any nudity in my room, and there were no consequences, just in case anyone wants to know. Of course I kept on camming after that.)

Anyway, what she said was that surely there must have been a lot of family men or married men watching, and how dare I take part in maybe ruining someone's relationship. I said that it was up to everyone on their own to not do things that might harm their relationship, but of course she didn't listen.
That really upset me and I admit I felt like a bad person for some time. Those thoughts still haunt me sometimes and I wish I could get rid of them.

I think we just found out what the main topic of their thread is about. Lily it's not about if we think it's right or wrong. You are feeling bad about this and wondering if it makes you a bad person. All in all we can keep saying it's ok and if you don't think it is it will make you miserable, and that will show in your room and that will make things even worse. You have to come to terms with this in your own heart and decide if you want to stay or if you want to leave camming. All I can say to help out is I get home at 9 pm eastern time and when I am checking my websites I always log onto MFC you can pm me anytime. From what I seen of these forms I am sure there are many other people (members or cam girls) you can pm also and talk to. It's your choice but your not alone.

 

[inkydoo]

If God (or his book or his representatives on Earth) tells me that it's wrong, and I am willing to accept morality by authority, then I can easily come to such a conclusion without it being a trust / self-esteem issue.

What?

Yeah, wat?

Morals and religious beliefs are not necessarily interchangeable things.

Agreed, but for some people they are nearly inseparable things.

Magellan and Megan essentially got my point. I was responding to Erragal's admittedly "broad generalization" that considering porn as cheating is driven by trust or self-esteem problems. For someone who accepts their morality whole-cloth, without question from some form of authority (especially if that authority is divine), porn is wrong, period. It doesn't have to be based in trust or self-esteem issues.

Take, for instance, a married couple who is devoutly Christian and believes any sexuality outside of marriage is wrong. If the wife discovers her husband has been looking at or "using" porn, in her judgment he has acted immorally. Her judgement that his action was immoral isn't based on her lack of trust for him, or any self-esteem issues, rather it's derived solely from her view that the Bible clearly states such action as immoral.

 

[schlmoe]

If God (or his book or his representatives on Earth) tells me that it's wrong, and I am willing to accept morality by authority, then I can easily come to such a conclusion without it being a trust / self-esteem issue.

What?

Yeah, wat?

Morals and religious beliefs are not necessarily interchangeable things.

Agreed, but for some people they are nearly inseparable things.

Magellan and Megan essentially got my point. I was responding to Erragal's admittedly "broad generalization" that considering porn as cheating is driven by trust or self-esteem problems. For someone who accepts their morality whole-cloth, without question from some form of authority (especially if that authority is divine), porn is wrong, period. It doesn't have to be based in trust or self-esteem issues.

Take, for instance, a married couple who is devoutly Christian and believes any sexuality outside of marriage is wrong. If the wife discovers her husband has been looking at or "using" porn, in her judgment he has acted immorally. Her judgement that his action was immoral isn't based on her lack of trust for him, or any self-esteem issues, rather it's derived solely from her view that the Bible clearly states such action as immoral.

*Note: playing a little "devil's advocate here (all my opinion, of course)

Here's the big problem, in Inky's hypothetical example, the wife "judged" the husband. If you were to consult the religious "experts", they would probably admit there is only one "judge", the Man upstairs. So why should we rely on imperfect human beings to "judge" our actions? Especially when this "judgement" comes from the church leader who commits adultery, or the pastor who embezzled, etc.

The next problem is every one has their own interpretation on these bible passages or other doctrine. Many years ago when he was running for president, Jimmy Carter gave an interview to Playboy. He claimed he committed "adultery in his heart" by looking at women. Wow, I guess I've been sinning since I was 10 or 11. A lot of religious folks would stop there, that you sinned by looking.

To his credit, Carter did say that he believed that "God forgave him", and that we shouldn't judge others, etc. But again, here's that interpretation thing again. Why should we rely on some one else's interpretation. If this final "judgement" ever comes, I'll take my chances based on what I have done rather than what someone told me to do.

This has nothing to do with anything, but some of the most moral people I have ever known would have nothing to do with organized religion. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Neudiin]

:happy1: ooooo a religious debate...these are always good.

 

[Sevrin]

I'm not sure that any of us is going to tell you that our pastime/livelihood is morally wrong. It's like posting on a cattleman's forum and asking whether it's okay to kill steers for food. It's something you will have to terms with on your own. Nothing any of us can say will make a difference unless you are at peace with what you see when you look in the mirror.
:twocents-02cents:

 

[ViruSphere]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.

I grew up in religious schools. My family wasn't religious, but the Catholic school system in the area provides a much better education than the public schools. I was raised as a goody goody so I have a strong sense of right and wrong and find it very difficult to be rebellious. I was taught about Jesus, God, the Commandments and everything else in The Bible. I went on a couple of school organized retreats and recall a powerful religious experience where I was in Church, deep in prayer and a counsellor put his hand on my shoulder and I could literally feel energy flowing from his hand into my body. It was awesome but bizarre at the same time.

In Grade 12 (Senior year of high school) World Youth Day was happening in Toronto so my school was going on a retreat to a local church. I had zero interest in going to this, but the school tried to force me to go with the punishment being that I would have to write The Bible if I didn't. It was at that moment that my religious beliefs began to change. I was 18 years old at the time so legally I was allowed to write my own absentee notes, so with permission from my parents I skipped this retreat and wrote my own note stating I was sick. The principal could tell I was lying but had to accept my note because of the policies of the school system.

College was the first school I ever went to that didn't have mandatory religious education classes, despite it having the word Saint in its name. I began thinking about how there were many teachings in The Bible that I simply didn't agree with. I also thought about the violence in history that religious beliefs have caused - The Holy Crusades. Waco. Strict Islamic dictators in the Middle East. 9/11. I also felt embarrassed and dumb praying to God, a supposed spirit that rules over all of us yet there's no proof of his existence. I've seen countless instances of people trying to keep topics taboo, like abortion, pornography and gay marriage, all in the name of religion. Lastly, this is specific to The Bible, but the teachings and beliefs that are in the Catholic Bible were originally written over 2000 years ago. How can these teachings and beliefs be relevant today?

I began to form my own beliefs on religion and discovered that I simply don't like or believe in any form of it. I'm an Athiest. If I get married it won't be in a church, I won't have a priest and there will be no religious association at all. I've seen instances of people trying to get Christmas trees changed to Holiday trees, or even Christmas tress taken down in public spaces because it offends them or their religion. I don't accept this at all. Everyone has the right to believe what they want and practice whatever faith they wish, but don't dare preach to me or try to use religion as an excuse to disrupt society.

 

[LilyMarie]

May I ask if your mom is very religious Lily? I'm not judging dear but the statement of how you could be contributing to the failures of marriages and couples comes alot from the religious right. [...]

That's a good point and I can see why you would think so. But no. No one in our family is religious.

I'm not sure that any of us is going to tell you that our pastime/livelihood is morally wrong. It's like posting on a cattleman's forum and asking whether it's okay to kill steers for food. It's something you will have to terms with on your own. Nothing any of us can say will make a difference unless you are at peace with what you see when you look in the mirror.

In general, I am at peace with it, there's no doubt about that. I didn't want any of you to decide anything for me, either. There's really no question of quitting or staying - I know this is what I want to do right now and like I said, in general I'm perfectly okay with it.
I just have those insecurities from time to time. I didn't have them before I talked to my mother about it.

I opened this thread mainly to find out if anyone else ever gets the same questions popping up in their mind. Reading through the posts has already helped me change my way of thinking a lot.

 

[msktty89]

:happy1: ooooo a religious debate...these are always good.

Lol, I thought the same, but tried to keep most of my opinions on religion to myself and only stirred the pot slightly. I think I'll sit with you and watch the rest.

 

[Neudiin]

I opened this thread mainly to find out if anyone else ever gets the same questions popping up in their mind. Reading through the posts has already helped me change my way of thinking a lot.

Having those thoughts just means you are a caring person. As long as you understand its not your responsibility what people do on the other side of the screen then you'll be OK. Now, show bobs bb! lol (yes misspelled on purpose and posted to make you roll your eyes and smile)

 

[PlayboyMegan]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.
I also thought about the violence in history that religious beliefs have caused - The Holy Crusades. Waco. Strict Islamic dictators in the Middle East. 9/11. I also felt embarrassed and dumb praying to God, a supposed spirit that rules over all of us yet there's no proof of his existence. I've seen countless instances of people trying to keep topics taboo, like abortion, pornography and gay marriage, all in the name of religion. Lastly, this is specific to The Bible, but the teachings and beliefs that are in the Catholic Bible were originally written over 2000 years ago. How can these teachings and beliefs be relevant today?

Blaming violence on religion is NO different than blaming pornstars for failed marriages.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

If one partner considers looking at porn (including MFC) to be cheating, then said partner has serious insecurity issues.

lol you probably feel like I'm picking on you today. I'm sorry, but to make such a generalized statement like that is quite ignorant. How can you possibly judge EVERY single persons relationship and know what they are feeling? Automatically ASSuming that anyone that is not okay with their partner watching porn has insecurity issues...well...you know what the say about ASSuming.

 

[ViruSphere]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.
I also thought about the violence in history that religious beliefs have caused - The Holy Crusades. Waco. Strict Islamic dictators in the Middle East. 9/11. I also felt embarrassed and dumb praying to God, a supposed spirit that rules over all of us yet there's no proof of his existence. I've seen countless instances of people trying to keep topics taboo, like abortion, pornography and gay marriage, all in the name of religion. Lastly, this is specific to The Bible, but the teachings and beliefs that are in the Catholic Bible were originally written over 2000 years ago. How can these teachings and beliefs be relevant today?

Blaming violence on religion is NO different than blaming pornstars for failed marriages.

When the violence is caused by religion, ie: people acting violently because their deity told them to, then yes it is very different.

lol you probably feel like I'm picking on you today. I'm sorry, but to make such a generalized statement like that is quite ignorant. How can you possibly judge EVERY single persons relationship and know what they are feeling? Automatically ASSuming that anyone that is not okay with their partner watching porn has insecurity issues...well...you know what the say about ASSuming.

and I'm sorry, but in today's world where pornography is extremely common and access to it is as simple as going to Google and turning off SafeSearch, it's incredibly naive to believe that one or both partners in a relationship won't look at it. Thinking that your partner is cheating on you because he/she is watching porn is like thinking they're going to shoot you with an assault rifle for watching Rambo or Terminator. There are many relationships nowadays where both members not only accept that their partners watch pornography, they even watch it together!

 

[Shaun__]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.

I was raised Christan, but I have always had a major problem with what I was taught. I was told Adam and Eve were with out sin and had no knowledge of evil. So when they disobeyed God and ate the fruit they had no way to know what they were doing was wrong. Being all knowing God decides the correct thing to do is to inflict suffering on all women and fling them both out of paradise to punish them and all their decedents.

If your child got burnt playing near the fire place after you told them not to would you throw them out into the depths of winter knowing they would die?

 

[Jupiter551]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.

I was raised Christan, but I have always had a major problem with what I was taught. I was told Adam and Eve were with out sin and had no knowledge of evil. So when they disobeyed God and ate the fruit they had no way to know what they were doing was wrong. Being all knowing God decides the correct thing to do is to inflict suffering on all women and fling them both out of paradise to punish them and all their decedents.

If your child got burnt playing near the fire place after you told them not to would you throw them out into the depths of winter knowing they would die?

One rationalisation is that he's God and he can do whatever the fck he wants

 

[Shaun__]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.

I was raised Christan, but I have always had a major problem with what I was taught. I was told Adam and Eve were with out sin and had no knowledge of evil. So when they disobeyed God and ate the fruit they had no way to know what they were doing was wrong. Being all knowing God decides the correct thing to do is to inflict suffering on all women and fling them both out of paradise to punish them and all their decedents.

If your child got burnt playing near the fire place after you told them not to would you throw them out into the depths of winter knowing they would die?

One rationalisation is that he's God and he can do whatever the fck he wants

He could do anything he wants. Every time I hear about a horrible thing happening to a child that is the phrase that often runs threw my mind. I will keep the rest of what I think to myself as a curtsey for the people on the forum who do have faith, but I will say I disapprove of management's choices.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.
I also thought about the violence in history that religious beliefs have caused - The Holy Crusades. Waco. Strict Islamic dictators in the Middle East. 9/11. I also felt embarrassed and dumb praying to God, a supposed spirit that rules over all of us yet there's no proof of his existence. I've seen countless instances of people trying to keep topics taboo, like abortion, pornography and gay marriage, all in the name of religion. Lastly, this is specific to The Bible, but the teachings and beliefs that are in the Catholic Bible were originally written over 2000 years ago. How can these teachings and beliefs be relevant today?

Blaming violence on religion is NO different than blaming pornstars for failed marriages.

When the violence is caused by religion, ie: people acting violently because their deity told them to, then yes it is very different.

lol you probably feel like I'm picking on you today. I'm sorry, but to make such a generalized statement like that is quite ignorant. How can you possibly judge EVERY single persons relationship and know what they are feeling? Automatically ASSuming that anyone that is not okay with their partner watching porn has insecurity issues...well...you know what the say about ASSuming.

and I'm sorry, but in today's world where pornography is extremely common and access to it is as simple as going to Google and turning off SafeSearch, it's incredibly naive to believe that one or both partners in a relationship won't look at it. Thinking that your partner is cheating on you because he/she is watching porn is like thinking they're going to shoot you with an assault rifle for watching Rambo or Terminator. There are many relationships nowadays where both members not only accept that their partners watch pornography, they even watch it together!

No. You are responsible for your own actions. If I believed in a religion that condoned in murder, and I murdered, it's not the religions fault, but my own.
It is not naive at all. There are MANY people that do not watch porn. There are even anti-porn activists. Cheating is a definition subjected to each individual. To imply that EVERYONE who is not okay with their partners watching porn has self-esteem issues is ridiculous, to say the least. Unless you have psychological studies that prove that, I refuse to believe it.
Yes, there are many couples who watch porn together. And that is great for them. But that does not mean every relationship should be like that.

 

[MarraJade]

I wont lie but I do feel dirty doing this job sometimes..
Definitely not how I was raised! I wont be doing it for forever..
but for now its something I need because working a regular job
I wouldn't be able to afford to live on my own..
I am hoping that mfc will help me get through school when
I figure out what I'm going for because college as I'm sure most
of you know is super expensive. So we will just see,
but I do know where your thoughts are coming from.
I think I feel dirty most when I have the perverts talking to me
and all I can think to myself is these are the kinds of guys
you would totally avoid in person.. and I'm not saying all
guys on MFC are pervs because that's not true at all I have
met some very down to earth people. I just hate if they are married I
do feel bad for their wives.. I'm a family person and I find
masturbating to another women besides your wife
is a form of cheating or adultery.. but if she knows and is okay
with it then sure all power to them! I do love how I have met
some amazing people though. Ones that have never asked
anything of me and are just there to hang out and have a fun time!
I think those people are what keep me going the most

 

[Shaun__]

I wont lie but I do feel dirty doing this job sometimes..
Definitely not how I was raised! I wont be doing it for forever..
but for now its something I need because working a regular job
I wouldn't be able to afford to live on my own..
I am hoping that mfc will help me get through school when
I figure out what I'm going for because college as I'm sure most
of you know is super expensive. So we will just see,
but I do know where your thoughts are coming from.
I think I feel dirty most when I have the perverts talking to me
and all I can think to myself is these are the kinds of guys
you would totally avoid in person.. and I'm not saying all
guys on MFC are pervs because that's not true at all I have
met some very down to earth people. I just hate if they are married I
do feel bad for their wives.. I'm a family person and I find
masturbating to another women besides your wife
is a form of cheating or adultery.. but if she knows and is okay
with it then sure all power to them! I do love how I have met
some amazing people though. Ones that have never asked
anything of me and are just there to hang out and have a fun time!
I think those people are what keep me going the most

I think I fall under the perv label, but you are right that some of the people on MFC are simply lonely and want someone to talk to. I see them sometimes.

 

[MarraJade]

I wont lie but I do feel dirty doing this job sometimes..
Definitely not how I was raised! I wont be doing it for forever..
but for now its something I need because working a regular job
I wouldn't be able to afford to live on my own..
I am hoping that mfc will help me get through school when
I figure out what I'm going for because college as I'm sure most
of you know is super expensive. So we will just see,
but I do know where your thoughts are coming from.
I think I feel dirty most when I have the perverts talking to me
and all I can think to myself is these are the kinds of guys
you would totally avoid in person.. and I'm not saying all
guys on MFC are pervs because that's not true at all I have
met some very down to earth people. I just hate if they are married I
do feel bad for their wives.. I'm a family person and I find
masturbating to another women besides your wife
is a form of cheating or adultery.. but if she knows and is okay
with it then sure all power to them! I do love how I have met
some amazing people though. Ones that have never asked
anything of me and are just there to hang out and have a fun time!
I think those people are what keep me going the most

I think I fall under the perv label, but you are right that some of the people on MFC are simply lonely and want someone to talk to. I see them sometimes.

I think I worded that wrong.. It takes a lot for me to
think someone is over the top. Normal fantasies that don't involve
like rape and having sex with your pre pubescent daughter .. are okay
in my book but its when they start telling me things that I find
completely creepy ha that's when I find them huge perverts
and that's the kind of people I would avoid on the streets for sure
But no I'm there to talk and get off lol and if your there for the same
reason then awesome you can do it with me

 

[ViruSphere]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.
I also thought about the violence in history that religious beliefs have caused - The Holy Crusades. Waco. Strict Islamic dictators in the Middle East. 9/11. I also felt embarrassed and dumb praying to God, a supposed spirit that rules over all of us yet there's no proof of his existence. I've seen countless instances of people trying to keep topics taboo, like abortion, pornography and gay marriage, all in the name of religion. Lastly, this is specific to The Bible, but the teachings and beliefs that are in the Catholic Bible were originally written over 2000 years ago. How can these teachings and beliefs be relevant today?

Blaming violence on religion is NO different than blaming pornstars for failed marriages.

When the violence is caused by religion, ie: people acting violently because their deity told them to, then yes it is very different.

lol you probably feel like I'm picking on you today. I'm sorry, but to make such a generalized statement like that is quite ignorant. How can you possibly judge EVERY single persons relationship and know what they are feeling? Automatically ASSuming that anyone that is not okay with their partner watching porn has insecurity issues...well...you know what the say about ASSuming.

and I'm sorry, but in today's world where pornography is extremely common and access to it is as simple as going to Google and turning off SafeSearch, it's incredibly naive to believe that one or both partners in a relationship won't look at it. Thinking that your partner is cheating on you because he/she is watching porn is like thinking they're going to shoot you with an assault rifle for watching Rambo or Terminator. There are many relationships nowadays where both members not only accept that their partners watch pornography, they even watch it together!

No. You are responsible for your own actions. If I believed in a religion that condoned in murder, and I murdered, it's not the religions fault, but my own.
It is not naive at all. There are MANY people that do not watch porn. There are even anti-porn activists. Cheating is a definition subjected to each individual. To imply that EVERYONE who is not okay with their partners watching porn has self-esteem issues is ridiculous, to say the least. Unless you have psychological studies that prove that, I refuse to believe it.
Yes, there are many couples who watch porn together. And that is great for them. But that does not mean every relationship should be like that.

We'll have to agree to disagree and move on, since we both have very strong but opposing opinions on these topics. Truce?

 

[MarraJade]

OK, time to spew my thoughts on religion.
I also thought about the violence in history that religious beliefs have caused - The Holy Crusades. Waco. Strict Islamic dictators in the Middle East. 9/11. I also felt embarrassed and dumb praying to God, a supposed spirit that rules over all of us yet there's no proof of his existence. I've seen countless instances of people trying to keep topics taboo, like abortion, pornography and gay marriage, all in the name of religion. Lastly, this is specific to The Bible, but the teachings and beliefs that are in the Catholic Bible were originally written over 2000 years ago. How can these teachings and beliefs be relevant today?

Blaming violence on religion is NO different than blaming pornstars for failed marriages.

When the violence is caused by religion, ie: people acting violently because their deity told them to, then yes it is very different.

lol you probably feel like I'm picking on you today. I'm sorry, but to make such a generalized statement like that is quite ignorant. How can you possibly judge EVERY single persons relationship and know what they are feeling? Automatically ASSuming that anyone that is not okay with their partner watching porn has insecurity issues...well...you know what the say about ASSuming.

and I'm sorry, but in today's world where pornography is extremely common and access to it is as simple as going to Google and turning off SafeSearch, it's incredibly naive to believe that one or both partners in a relationship won't look at it. Thinking that your partner is cheating on you because he/she is watching porn is like thinking they're going to shoot you with an assault rifle for watching Rambo or Terminator. There are many relationships nowadays where both members not only accept that their partners watch pornography, they even watch it together!

No. You are responsible for your own actions. If I believed in a religion that condoned in murder, and I murdered, it's not the religions fault, but my own.
It is not naive at all. There are MANY people that do not watch porn. There are even anti-porn activists. Cheating is a definition subjected to each individual. To imply that EVERYONE who is not okay with their partners watching porn has self-esteem issues is ridiculous, to say the least. Unless you have psychological studies that prove that, I refuse to believe it.
Yes, there are many couples who watch porn together. And that is great for them. But that does not mean every relationship should be like that.

We'll have to agree to disagree and move on, since we both have very strong but opposing opinions on these topics. Truce?

Truce

 

[inkydoo]

At the risk of drawing this out further, I feel like I need to clarify a few things.

1. I'm not attempting to make a moral argument about anything. Erragal made a claim about where a certain moral judgments came from (that ViruSphere has now also sort of made), namely that having a problem with a spouse using porn comes from insecurity or low self-esteem. I attempted to argue that this view is not always correct, and that judgments about porn being immoral or unacceptable can come from other factors. I AM NOT saying that porn is immoral, nor am I saying people who believe porn is immoral or wrong are correct in that belief. I'm only saying something about where their disapproval comes from.

2. I'm not making a religious statement or argument at all. I chose to use Christianity as an example of why someone might find porn immoral with it being about insecurity or self-esteem, because it seemed like an obvious case. Perhaps I should have instead pointed to that group of feminist philosophers who, without any relation to their religious beliefs, have come to the conclusion that pornography has a negative effect on society, and therefore think porn immoral. (Again, to be clear, I'm not making this argument, nor do I agree with it, it's only an example of why someone might find porn immoral without it being about insecurity or self-esteem).

3. I didn't intend to start any kind of religious debate, nor do I think this topic the appropriate place to do so. As it is, I feel like I kind of accidentally took Lily's serious and important topic off the rails, and I'm sorry for that. In an attempt to be on-topic, I will summarize by saying that I don't think camming, in and of itself, is immoral. Perhaps I'll expand on that a bit, but not in this post.