I'm doing master thesis about cam models

[Gen]

Assuming that you're referring to "body as a medium of exchange", please explain how the term is "clinically-accurate". Because I'm pretty sure, despite any label I choose to identify with, I have always exchanged money for time, with my body and mind being merely tools of the trade (as they are for every other profession). I have never exchanged my body for anything. If I've gotten what you're saying wrong, I apologize, but that's how it's coming across.

I have several people in this thread on ignore, nevertheless, it seems entirely full of WAT.

The poster being from Poland lead me to assume, like Bob, that English might be a second language so rather than take the wording super literally I just assumed it meant camming is a job that revolves around physicality and using the body. Maybe if OP is working in English she should change it to clarify since it's clearly bothered a few people and is ambiguous.

 

[Lintilla]

The poster being from Poland lead me to assume, like Bob, that English might be a second language so rather than take the wording super literally I just assumed it meant camming is a job that revolves around physicality and using the body. Maybe if OP is working in English she should change it to clarify since it's clearly bothered a few people and is ambiguous.

I agree with that to a degree, but then on the other hand they seem familiar enough with English that it doesn't seem to me that it could be that much of a simple oops. Beyond the OP, others seem to be speaking at cross-purposes as well. If it's "body as a medium of exchange" that we're all referring to (I'm honestly not quite sure)... then it's not just a matter of terminology, but a disagreement based on interpretation of an entire concept.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Assuming that you're referring to "body as a medium of exchange", please explain how the term is "clinically-accurate". Because I'm pretty sure, despite any label I choose to identify with, I have always exchanged money for time, with my body and mind being merely tools of the trade (as they are for every other profession). I have never exchanged my body for anything. If I've gotten what you're saying wrong, I apologize, but that's how it's coming across.

I have several people in this thread on ignore, nevertheless, it seems entirely full of WAT.

Clinically accurate in the sense that, while I can see why it might be a dehumanizing term and I understand why sex workers wouldn't be a fan of it, it's technically accurate. Camming is such a visual medium and the way a cam girl looks, in her body, in her face, is ultimately what leads to a member spending money on them or not. If a member isn't attracted to or aroused by a model's outward physical appearance, then he won't spend time in her room or money on her shows. That's not to say that your mind and personality aren't important - of course they are - and I accept that it's your time and your effort that you exchange for money when a member takes you private, but it's your body that makes that initial exchange seem of value to the member. Cam girls are their own product essentially.

 

[Phoenix4987]

2nd what bob said. Dudes scrolling through the model list don't see the girls personality first. It's a thumbnail and a preview of what's on screen. Only after that initial attraction is made does he decide if her personality is one that will make him stay or leave.

 

[AudriTwo]

I want to fight with dehumanization and objectification

Everyone objectifies everyone in someway. Some full-heartedly believe that cam models objectify their customers because they only see them as $$$. Yes, that is a crazy generalization, but there are people who just see their clients as money. We have all met that sex worker sometime or another.

The golden rule is just don't be a fucking asshole. Understand that is a sexy human being in front of that camera smashing their boobies together how you like. And I get the person on the other end is just someone who wants to feel some pleasure. Respecting one another is pretty neat. But if someone is an asshole: block them, ridicule them, laugh at them, ignore them.

I also have never felt objectified during my 4 years of camming. I'm a subject, yo!

I don't know if you've been following the news, but the people most opposed to alternative lifestyles aren't particularly interested in learning anything about anything.

Even though this is true, it shouldn't stop you from trying to make a change. My father used to believe homosexuality was an abomination and was 100% against it. Not anymore. He has become more accepting and understanding.

 

[Lintilla]

Clinically accurate in the sense that, while I can see why it might be a dehumanizing term and I understand why sex workers wouldn't be a fan of it, it's technically accurate. Camming is such a visual medium and the way a cam girl looks, in her body, in her face, is ultimately what leads to a member spending money on them or not. If a member isn't attracted to or aroused by a model's outward physical appearance, then he won't spend time in her room or money on her shows. That's not to say that your mind and personality aren't important - of course they are - and I accept that it's your time and your effort that you exchange for money when a member takes you private, but it's your body that makes that initial exchange seem of value to the member. Cam girls are their own product essentially.

I still don't agree. Though I understand what you're saying, I'm never going to be chill with things being phrased that way, and by no means do I think it's "clinically accurate". Yes, the way a cam girl looks and her presentation are important. Yet, in no way is that what's being exchanged. Presentation, personality, all those things, in one way or another, in practically any line of business (hell, even in my other work where no one ever sees my face, the way my website looks is important), and even the MOST important in plenty, but we wouldn't call it the medium of exchange in almost any other case. So, while you obviously realize and state that no one's body is actually being given away and that it's just given a lot of focus in sex work, it's that particular, and still inaccurate phrasing, that bugs the hellllll out of me. People use it casually, without thinking, and ugh.

 

[Influenced]

SO yeah, hoe is a word that absolutely can be derogatory to women in general. Hoe is a term that can be derogatory to SW. I choose to self identify as hoe in part to offer humor to myself when talking about very serious issues as a way to lighten my mood and give control to myself over the language that is used over me. I use the term as someone who has had it used it as an insult to me. Context and self identification important. Hoe isn't specific to SW work though, it's used as a derogatory term for all women, and there are gals out there who will use it endearingly among other lady friends. Some do not see the power in reclaiming a word, and that's totally okay. The word is something that literally only carries negative connotations because of the way it was intentionally used, it was not a part of our language in any other context other than to use it as an insult. Because of this, I do not believe it upholds an institutional ideal or overarching societal bias on its own, and that's why women have reclaimed terms like this (slut, bitch etc.). Others may disagree with that idea and may see it as part of an institutional bias against women.

 

[KitKatSunrise]

oh boy here we go again

 

[Influenced]

oh boy here we go again

 

[mynameisbob84]

I still don't agree. Though I understand what you're saying, I'm never going to be chill with things being phrased that way, and by no means do I think it's "clinically accurate". Yes, the way a cam girl looks and her presentation are important. Yet, in no way is that what's being exchanged. Presentation, personality, all those things, in one way or another, in practically any line of business (hell, even in my other work where no one ever sees my face, the way my website looks is important), and even the MOST important in plenty, but we wouldn't call it the medium of exchange in almost any other case. So, while you obviously realize and state that no one's body is actually being given away and that it's just given a lot of focus in sex work, it's that particular, and still inaccurate phrasing, that bugs the hellllll out of me. People use it casually, without thinking, and ugh.

I think we're pretty much in agreement about what it is a cam girl does, with one small difference that accounts for our respective stances, and it's such a small difference that I don't think it's worth arguing over. I think we're understandably looking at things from our own side of the cam girl/member divide. When you see a model go to a private with a member or do a public cum show once a countdown has been met, you see a cam girl exchanging her time for the member's money. It's her time that she's selling and not her body. And I understand and accept that completely. But when I see a member taking a model to a private show or chipping in for a public cum show, while there are always exceptions, I don't think it's the model's time that they're specifically paying for but (temporary, virtual access to) her body, in a sexual situation that they wouldn't otherwise get to see her in.

But I also feel like we're knee-deep in semantics, moving further and further away from my initial point (that OP was likely pro-sex work despite using one phrase that many here are seemingly opposed to). "Medium of Exchange" isn't a term I've ever used in relation to camming and this thread is the first time I've ever seen it used in relation to camming by anyone. Maybe it's a more widespread occurrence than I'm aware of and a term that cam girls as a collective are vehemently opposed to. I see no merit in me sitting here advocating for a term that doesn't effect me at all being used more freely to describe a profession when the people in that profession are apparently deeply effected by that term.

 

[jujoji]

Assuming that you're referring to "body as a medium of exchange", please explain how the term is "clinically-accurate". Because I'm pretty sure, despite any label I choose to identify with, I have always exchanged money for time, with my body and mind being merely tools of the trade (as they are for every other profession). I have never exchanged my body for anything. If I've gotten what you're saying wrong, I apologize, but that's how it's coming across.

I have several people in this thread on ignore, nevertheless, it seems entirely full of WAT.

Absolutely, money (real world, or tokens) is still the medium of exchange. Access to body of the SW, or for camming purposes, images of the SW's body (along with time, emotions, thoughts) is the commodity of exchange: what the exchange is being done for.

 

[jujoji]

I think we're pretty much in agreement about what it is a cam girl does, with one small difference that accounts for our respective stances, and it's such a small difference that I don't think it's worth arguing over. I think we're understandably looking at things from our own side of the cam girl/member divide. When you see a model go to a private with a member or do a public cum show once a countdown has been met, you see a cam girl exchanging her time for the member's money. It's her time that she's selling and not her body. And I understand and accept that completely. But when I see a member taking a model to a private show or chipping in for a public cum show, while there are always exceptions, I don't think it's the model's time that they're specifically paying for but (temporary, virtual access to) her body, in a sexual situation that they wouldn't otherwise get to see her in.

But I also feel like we're knee-deep in semantics, moving further and further away from my initial point (that OP was likely pro-sex work despite using one phrase that many here are seemingly opposed to). "Medium of Exchange" isn't a term I've ever used in relation to camming and this thread is the first time I've ever seen it used in relation to camming by anyone. Maybe it's a more widespread occurrence than I'm aware of and a term that cam girls as a collective are vehemently opposed to. I see no merit in me sitting here advocating for a term that doesn't effect me at all being used more freely to describe a profession when the people in that profession are apparently deeply effected by that term.

Medium of Exchange is an economics term, hence it's use in psychology, sociology, public policy, anthropology... basically all the social sciences when talking about people needing to facilitate an exchange of good or services. The medium of exchange is the lubrication/grease that makes the exchange possible. In a barter system, the medium are the two items to be exchanged. In a more fully formed economy where items can bear an ascribed, non-intrinsic value, we create money, coins, or credit that become a more universal medium of exchange. A more portable form

 

[yummybrownfox]

Is the word hoe no longer a derogatory term meant to dehumanize women?

It's just depends on what the person is comfortable with. There are women (both sex workers and non-sex workers) who enjoy being called 'bitch'...'whore'...etc. during sex and/or cam shows or whatever. And there are some women who would cringe at that. And there are some who don't really care either way.

It's the weirdest thing, because that shit used to get on my nerves. But I just recently found myself LOVIN' that kind of talk during a sexting conversation on DreamLover. Lmao. Sometimes our comfort levels with things change over time. It's interesting...

But to be on the safe side, I'd probably avoid going into a new room and blurting out "Damn, girl! You are one fine-ass bitch!" on the first day...

 

[heybarkeep]

This?

lol yeah, initially. Didn't want to be a dick and figured I should at least hear them out.

It's just depends on what the person is comfortable with. There are women (both sex workers and non-sex workers) who enjoy being called 'bitch'...'whore'...etc. during sex and/or cam shows or whatever. And there are some women who would cringe at that. And there are some who don't really care either way.

It's the weirdest thing, because that shit used to get on my nerves. But I just recently found myself LOVIN' that kind of talk during a sexting conversation on DreamLover. Lmao. Sometimes our comfort levels with things change over time. It's interesting...

But to be on the safe side, I'd probably avoid going into a new room and blurting out "Damn, girl! You are one fine-ass bitch!" on the first day...

It wasn't meant as a serious question but regardless of the purpose, thank you for your insight.

 

[Dan Epstein]

Hi, I am just curious to ask, (I'm not a model, I work with models as a service provider), what is the research question, or let's say 3 to 5 points of discussion? Perhaps if you can distill those, the thesis will be solid and models will know what you actually look for.

 

[heybarkeep]

a term that cam girls as a collective are vehemently opposed to. I see no merit in me sitting here advocating for a term that doesn't effect me at all being used more freely to describe a profession when the people in that profession are apparently deeply effected by that term.

Thankfully the people upset by it seem to be the minority and don't speak for the community here or sex workers as a whole. I think people just like to have a whine sometimes despite how hypocritical or illogical or sheltered it may make them seem.

Highlight of the thread is the insecure man hating hive not knowing which button to mash at the top of page two.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Thankfully the people upset by it seem to be the minority and don't speak for the community here or sex workers as a whole. I think people just like to have a whine sometimes despite how hypocritical or illogical or sheltered it may make them seem.

Yes, well I suppose it is good to listen to the views that strike one as absurd. Limit yourself to your bubble, you limit your personal growth.

It is very easy to assume that someone has wandered off from reality and lost themselves in an esoteric fantasy world, but we should not discount the possibility that there may be a grain of truth in their words (even if we are appalled by the idea of describing a non-native speaker's linguistic faux pas as a blasphemous crime on par with genocide).

I, for one, have learned something here. The next time I fire up an Inara vid, hit that mute button, and settle back to watch her flaunt that big 'ole fanny for money, I will be mindful of the fact that I am enjoying a product that represents her time; I will make a conscious effort to reject any incorrect thoughts that may enter my mind about those wide come-get-up-in-me hips, and any objectifying lust for ownership that would certainly follow.

And even if deviance should creep in unawares, and I find myself harboring urges to take a paddle to that saucy butt (God forbid!), I certainly won't admit to it openly.

Power to the people!

 

[yummybrownfox]

It wasn't meant as a serious question but regardless of the purpose, thank you for your insight.

No problem. It still needed to be said, since there are guys out there who still don't get it, or wonder why they're getting banned from some rooms. Lol.