Houston Area Model accused of scamming

[JubalCobb]

hopefully this isn't a dup thread. the article is a week old, but I didn't see it posted.

What's the line between butthurt token regret, and a real fraud complaint.

http://abc13.com/news/porn-site-users-h ... es/723079/
A Houston area model is being accused of bilking a couple members out of over 100k by having her husband in the room acting as a shill.

I actually dont see a problem with that.
It doesn't say he won the date raffle, but that's where most people would see fraud if he did. (seems to be what most lounge guys thinks happens with date raffles anyway).

not exactly the kind of press mfc wants.

another interesting aspect of this is the husband (now ex) losing his job as a police officer

 

[Sevrin]

It's an interesting article. Thanks for the post. You're incorrect on two points.

The article says hubby won date contests.

Mark said he lost tens of thousands "trying to win two dates that ended up being awarded to what's now known to be her ex-husband."

Hubby isn't losing his job yet.

The officer "compromised his status as an undercover officer" because of his activity on the site, records show, and he was also suspended from the Houston Police Department for five days, Ted Oberg Investigates has found.

I'm pretty sure that a little digging would prove that there was actual fraud involved. It probably won't go any further because the po-po don't want a lot of publicity about this, and the members won't press charges because they're embarrassed.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

It's an interesting article. Thanks for the post. You're incorrect on two points.

The article says hubby won date contests.

Mark said he lost tens of thousands "trying to win two dates that ended up being awarded to what's now known to be her ex-husband."

Hubby isn't losing his job yet.

The officer "compromised his status as an undercover officer" because of his activity on the site, records show, and he was also suspended from the Houston Police Department for five days, Ted Oberg Investigates has found.

I'm pretty sure that a little digging would prove that there was actual fraud involved. It probably won't go any further because the po-po don't want a lot of publicity about this, and the members won't press charges because they're embarrassed.

I wish the guys involved would press charges. It seems pretty clear that at best her husband acted as a shill bidder. I know ebay has spent a lot of time and effort to weed out shill bidding on their site.

Definition: Shill bidding is the act of bidding on your own auction against other bidders in order to raise the price at which your item will eventually sell. It is a violation of both eBay rules and federal law.

Note that on eBay and in most real-life auctions, a bid on an item from anyone related to the seller in almost any way, from friends and family to business associates and roommates, is considered to be a shill bid, will not be honored, and will almost certainly disqualify the seller—even if the bidder would have purchased the item.
What this means is that you can not buy from your family and friends on eBay, no matter what, no exceptions. That is the nature of auction selling.

You add to that running an illegal raffle, and more likely than not the drawing was probably rigged (that would be very hard to prove) and you have the making of a actual fraud. People have certainly gone to jail for fraud involving smaller amounts of money.

 

[JickyJuly]

I don't really understand why a model who isn't into the idea of going on a date with a member would choose to do a date raffle. It's definitely kind of smarmy to cheat, but it also seems not that profitable? I don't, however, think there is anything here to charge her for. Ebay is an auction site. Bidders should be able to count on their bid being safe. MFC is a different place. Tips are gifts, and gifts can get you hurt. MFC covers its bases.

As an aside, it seems like if you want to take part in these kinds of raffles, the ones that are double dates or group dates might be safer. If there are several girls involved, they are likely holding one another accountable and expecting integrity.

 

[SexySteph]

It's an interesting article. Thanks for the post. You're incorrect on two points.

The article says hubby won date contests.

Mark said he lost tens of thousands "trying to win two dates that ended up being awarded to what's now known to be her ex-husband."

Hubby isn't losing his job yet.

The officer "compromised his status as an undercover officer" because of his activity on the site, records show, and he was also suspended from the Houston Police Department for five days, Ted Oberg Investigates has found.

I'm pretty sure that a little digging would prove that there was actual fraud involved. It probably won't go any further because the po-po don't want a lot of publicity about this, and the members won't press charges because they're embarrassed.

I wish the guys involved would press charges. It seems pretty clear that at best her husband acted as a shill bidder. I know ebay has spent a lot of time and effort to weed out shill bidding on their site.

Definition: Shill bidding is the act of bidding on your own auction against other bidders in order to raise the price at which your item will eventually sell. It is a violation of both eBay rules and federal law.

Note that on eBay and in most real-life auctions, a bid on an item from anyone related to the seller in almost any way, from friends and family to business associates and roommates, is considered to be a shill bid, will not be honored, and will almost certainly disqualify the seller—even if the bidder would have purchased the item.
What this means is that you can not buy from your family and friends on eBay, no matter what, no exceptions. That is the nature of auction selling.

You add to that running an illegal raffle, and more likely than not the drawing was probably rigged (that would be very hard to prove) and you have the making of a actual fraud. People have certainly gone to jail for fraud involving smaller amounts of money.

There was no drawing. It was a "HT wins!" thing. So just the shill bidding. As JickyJuly said, by MFC rules, tips are gifts not transactions so I don't know if anything legal can be done. That doesn't change that she's a crappy person and a scammer though.

 

[Gen]

I wonder how "gifts are tips, not transactions" would hold up legally, just because clearly so many of them (probably the majority of tipping interactions? Maybe?) are transactional for videos, flashes, etc. I wonder if even any tips towards countdowns could be considered a payment for a service? I have no clue, maybe someone with more legal knowledge knows, but I always assumed that it would be considered payment.

 

[Shaun__]

Whenever a model says tips are gifts, to get out of doing something she said she would do, a perverted angel loses his wings. If you do not want to do stuff, then you should not solicit tokies to do that stuff.

How would you feel if you did something for a member, and they said they were not going pay you since tokens are just gifts not a form of payment for things.

 

[Sevrin]

"Tips are gifts" is there to protect MFC from having to enforce payment for or performance of service, not the models from having to deal honestly with members or members with models.

 

[FoxyBea]

This was really shitty but she didn't break the law nor MFCs rules. I wouldn't worry, though. This is going to ruin her as a model so even if she can't be punished by law, I don't see how she could ever be successful again.

 

[SexySteph]

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that "tips are gifts" absolve her from guilt. Just that I think it may protect MFC and possibly her LEGALLY. She's still a scammer and a shit person and I wasn't justifying what she did at all.

 

[JickyJuly]

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that "tips are gifts" absolve her from guilt. Just that I think it may protect MFC and possibly her LEGALLY. She's still a scammer and a shit person and I wasn't justifying what she did at all.

Yeah. I definitely wasn't backing up this model's actions either. Just thinking on the actual legality of it. I think that if MFC felt they could be in legal trouble over the outcome, raffles/contests would be on the wiki as disallowed.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I wonder how "gifts are tips, not transactions" would hold up legally, just because clearly so many of them (probably the majority of tipping interactions? Maybe?) are transactional for videos, flashes, etc. I wonder if even any tips towards countdowns could be considered a payment for a service? I have no clue, maybe someone with more legal knowledge knows, but I always assumed that it would be considered payment.

Exactly Gen.

In the US gifts are not treated as taxable income. Therefore Camgirls shouldn't be paying taxes on all these "gifts" that you receive. Now I wouldn't personally suggest that any model try that line of reasoning with the IRS. But I don't see any other way of reconciling the MFC claim that tokens are gifts and have no value. MFC's lawyers are free to write anything they want on their TOS that nobody reads. It is really no different than various online casino claiming the chips they sold were for entertainment purposes and had no actual value, it didn't actually fly when brought to court.

Regarding raffles a while ago raffles/sweepstakes were actually listed as prohibited activities in the MFC contract. Like many things with MFC that rule was never enforced and it doesn't appear anymore on the wiki, I think raffles falls in the general don't do anything illegal category.

There isn't anything illegal about having an auction like a HT competition. I don't think MFC has any legal liability here they didn't do anything wrong, it was the model and her husbands activity that was wrong. (I was somewhat surprised to find out that shill bidding is illegal). But if the victims aren't will to step forward nothing the police can do.

 

[Poker_Babe]

I think it's disgusting that a cop can get suspended for this, yet for real police misconduct that takes place most of the time nothing happens.

 

[Zoomer]

I think it's disgusting that a cop can get suspended for this, yet for real police misconduct that takes place most of the time nothing happens.

Your disgust is misplaced - it should be disgust that nothing happens in other instances, not that they've taken action in this instance.

Compounding a problem of "nothing happens with misconduct" by then ignoring another instance of misconduct when it's made public isn't the correct way to go about it.
Doing something about the other's is.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Mark said he lost tens of thousands trying to win two dates

Hate to be shitting on the victims here but dudes this lonely/smitten seem a bit strange to me. Would be weirded out by any dude spending that much money/was that adamant on trying to meet me. Would be hard to turn down the easy money I'm sure but I don't know, would be creeped out by it I think. Might end up tied to a bed Misery style. I don't think I'm old enough to make that reference. A comparison to the Eminem song Stan is probably better. I'm sure lots of normal and harmless guys are into date raffles and these dudes probably are too but some of these date raffles have to be terrifying for the models. Imagine some non regular showing up or a member you aren't comfortatble with or even just one dude way too interested in it buying a large percentage. Not trying to make excuses for the scam or justify anything here, shouldn't offer them unless it's legit, but I could see why some would rig it or regret offering it.

Intent is obviously way different in this story so no sympathy for the scammers. Struggling to really have that much sympathy for grown men that would try to blame another dude for encouraging what they did on a porn site but hard to not feel a little bad. Come on tho, something on the internet was a scam? A carny like game on the internet turned out to not be properly regulated and perhaps even a bit shady? Dudes were sadly going to get taken advantage of pretty badly at some point. Seems cold and sorry it happened to them but next time pay more attention and tip because you want to tip, not to compete.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Mark said he lost tens of thousands trying to win two dates

Hate to be shitting on the victims here but dudes this lonely/smitten seem a bit strange to me. Would be weirded out by any dude spending that much money/was that adamant on trying to meet me. Would be hard to turn down the easy money I'm sure but I don't know, would be creeped out by it I think. Might end up tied to a bed Misery style. I don't think I'm old enough to make that reference. A comparison to the Eminem song Stan is probably better. I'm sure lots of normal and harmless guys are into date raffles and these dudes probably are too but some of these date raffles have to be terrifying for the models. Imagine some non regular showing up or a member you aren't comfortatble with or even just one dude way too interested in it buying a large percentage. Not trying to make excuses for the scam or justify anything here, shouldn't offer them unless it's legit, but I could see why some would rig it or regret offering it.

Intent is obviously way different in this story so no sympathy for the scammers. Struggling to really have that much sympathy for grown men that would try to blame another dude for encouraging what they did on a porn site but hard to not feel a little bad. Come on tho, something on the internet was a scam? A carny like game on the internet turned out to not be properly regulated and perhaps even a bit shady? Dudes were sadly going to get taken advantage of pretty badly at some point. Seems cold and sorry it happened to them but next time pay more attention and tip because you want to tip, not to compete.

Competition is the not so secret formula why MFC is successful. It taps in the alpha male competitive nature. If there wasn't a competition both between models and among members for bragging rights within a models room, you'd cut the income of top models by at least 1/2. The the tens of thousands may not even be a lot of money for these guys and they may not regret the amount of money they spent. What I'm sure they are mad about is it being a scam.

I'm sure it can be terrifying, but I dare say girls who go to bachelor parties have a hell of a lot more to be worried about than the typical camgirl out on a date raffle. For the kind of money they make on date raffles, they can afford to have their boyfriend, girlfriend, of just hire a bouncer (like strippers do) keep watch discreetly on the situation in case something goes wrong. In her case her husband as undercover cop would have been perfectly capable of keeping her safe.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Competition is the not so secret formula why MFC is successful. It taps in the alpha male competitive nature. If there wasn't a competition both between models and among members for bragging rights within a models room, you'd cut the income of top models by at least 1/2. The the tens of thousands may not even be a lot of money for these guys and they may not regret the amount of money they spent.

Yeah I mean, I get all this and I'm sure those that have been around here long enough have read similar posts on why competition is good. Just trying to say that you can still have fun while tipping without worrying about competitions and yeah I'd guess/hope that the money spent by them wasn't enough to effect them much.

I'm sure it can be terrifying, but I dare say girls who go to bachelor parties have a hell of a lot more to be worried about than the typical camgirl out on a date raffle. For the kind of money they make on date raffles, they can afford to have their boyfriend, girlfriend, of just hire a bouncer (like strippers do) keep watch discreetly on the situation in case something goes wrong. In her case her husband as undercover cop would have been perfectly capable of keeping her safe.

Yeah, good points.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Your disgust is misplaced - it should be disgust that nothing happens in other instances, not that they've taken action in this instance.

Compounding a problem of "nothing happens with misconduct" by then ignoring another instance of misconduct when it's made public isn't the correct way to go about it.
Doing something about the other's is.

I will have to respectfully disagree... Although I get what you're saying, I don't happen to believe that this is something worthy of a cop being suspended over.

 

[Airwolfe]

Raffles like the ones models run in their chat rooms are most likely illegal in all 50 U.S. states and all of the territories, commonwealths, and possessions of the United States of America.

They are most likely illegal in most other countries too.

 

[Sevrin]

Raffles like the ones models run in their chat rooms are most likely illegal in all 50 U.S. states and all of the territories, commonwealths, and possessions of the United States of America.

They are most likely illegal in most other countries too.

Who may conduct raffles?

Only a qualified religious society that has been in existence in Texas for at least 10 years; a qualified volunteer fire department that operates fire fighting equipment, provides fire-fighting services and that does not pay its members other than nominal compensation; a qualified volunteer emergency medical service that does not pay its members other than nominal compensation; or a qualified 501(c) tax-exempt, nonprofit organization that has been in existence for at least three years may hold raffles in Texas. Individuals and for profit businesses may not hold raffles.

She's messin' with Texas.

 

[SexySteph]

You guys keep forgetting it wasn't a raffle. It was a HT competition. So like, an auction.

 

[hihowrubb]

Not sure if this is breaking some kind of rule here and if it is then I apologize and someone can just delete this post but does anyone know who the model in question is? From the amounts being spoken about it seems it must be one of the top models on the site

 

[Sevrin]

You guys keep forgetting it wasn't a raffle. It was a HT competition. So like, an auction.

Both men tell the same story: The model held raffles and high-tip contests. The prize was a date with her and no sex was ever promised. The husband posed as a wealthy military contractor and was online frequently, encouraging them to bid up the high tip contests and raffles.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Raffles like the ones models run in their chat rooms are most likely illegal in all 50 U.S. states and all of the territories, commonwealths, and possessions of the United States of America.

They are most likely illegal in most other countries too.

What?!? But the camgirls in this thread that are lawyers in their spare time told me she didn't do anything illegal.

Not sure if this is breaking some kind of rule here and if it is then I apologize and someone can just delete this post but does anyone know who the model in question is? From the amounts being spoken about it seems it must be one of the top models on the site

Look a little harder and you might find the information you seek.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

You guys keep forgetting it wasn't a raffle. It was a HT competition. So like, an auction.

It was raffles as well. From the story in the original link in the first post. The article doesn't say whether or not the date was high tip or raffle. Just that raffles were done.

 

[FoxyBea]

To any models reading this thread and freaking out over the legality of their raffle, or whether or not they can be held liable, here are some tips:
1. Check your state/country laws, of course.
2. Make sure your rules are clear to keep you from being sued. You may want to go the extra mile by sending ticket buyers a message with an in-depth description of your rules, or even put "by tipping for tickets you agree that you understand the rules states above..." on your rules graphic.
3. Don't raffle off anything involving drugs, alcohol, firearms, or anything over $600 in worth (another reason to throw date raffles in the garbage can of things to never do).
4. Consider running a contest instead of a sweepstakes. With a contest, you can charge for people to compete, but have less liability than a sweepstakes. In this model's case, she was running a HT contest, just don't have a shill bidder like she did.
5. Give a percentage of the proceeds to charity, and keep proof that you did. Advertising the raffle as one for charity (no matter what percentage actually goes to charity) decreases your liability in many states.
6. Offer a "no purchase necessary" ticket that involves members doing something for a ticket besides paying. To keep benefiting yourself, the no purchase necessary can be "follow my instagram" or something.
*Remember that, even in places where raffles are entirely illegal, the only way you're going to be scrutinized is if you piss someone off. So don't rip people off like this model did. If you don't want to do something, don't run a "raffle" or anything of the kind for it.

 

[yummybrownfox]

I don't really understand why a model who isn't into the idea of going on a date with a member would choose to do a date raffle.

Me neither. I think a model like that (not into it, but does it anyway) feels like she has to jump on the date raffle bandwagon in order to keep guys interested and spending. And if that's the case, that truly does suck. I've seen models debating on whether or not to do this and that on MFC "since so many other models are doing it," and in the same sentence they'd say "Even though it's something I'm not comfortable doing." :?

I think it's pretty shitty to have a date raffle where you've already secretly appointed someone (boyfriend/husband/favorite regular) as "the winner." If you're gonna have a date raffle, do a legit date raffle where every participant actually has a chance of winning. Otherwise, don't do it at all, or just stick to the usual Skype date raffles.

 

[SexySteph]

You guys keep forgetting it wasn't a raffle. It was a HT competition. So like, an auction.

It was raffles as well. From the story in the original link in the first post. The article doesn't say whether or not the date was high tip or raffle. Just that raffles were done.

The other article I read stated that the date was a HT contest. Which I think is the one that caused the biggest uproar since that's what he was shill bidding in. So the raffles, if there were any were the least of their frustration.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

The other article I read stated that the date was a HT contest.

You should post that article when you get a chance.

 

[SexySteph]

The other article I read stated that the date was a HT contest.

You should post that article when you get a chance.

I didn't hold on to the link, sorry. It was like a week or two ago when the story first came out.