Health insurance premiums set to rise for people without subsidies

[AudriTwo]

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...le-who-buy-health-insurance-without-subsidies

Well looks like I'm dropping my insurance or looking at cheaper plans. At this point it's cheaper. Mines up 35% and I'm in Florida. We don't have the budget for it. I'm the only one working while my husband is a full-time student on his new career path. Fucking light me on fire.

Us middle class folk still getting fucked hard. I just want affordable health care. Why can't they work together and get us Americans the cover needed.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Well, the previous administration billed this as "The Affordable Healthcare Act". Which, has been anything but affordable. But, this isn't new nor as a surprise, as many analysts stated and showed models of how this would occur.

 

[dilligaf0]

The current administration is creating doubt that they will continue making subsidy payments which causes uncertainty which then causes insurance providers to raise premiums.

 

[AudriTwo]

Well, the previous administration billed this as "The Affordable Healthcare Act". Which, has been anything but affordable. But, this isn't new nor as a surprise, as many analysts stated and showed models of how this would occur.

It was good for anyone making less than $65,000. The intentions were good, just not practical. Interesting enough the ACA was inspired by a republican idea from the 90's.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Well looks like I'm dropping my insurance or looking at cheaper plans. At this point it's cheaper. Mines up 35% and I'm in Florida. We don't have the budget for it. I'm the only one working while my husband is a full-time student on his new career path. Fucking light me on fire.

Us middle class folk still getting fucked hard. I just want affordable health care. Why can't they work together and get us Americans the cover needed.

The root cause why health insurance is unaffordable is because healthcare in America is unaffordable. On average we spend $10,200/per person per year, that $850/month. The big question is who subsidize it. For most people, it's their employer. For those over 65 it's everybody who is working in the form of Medicare tax on wages which are doubled for self-employed folks like camgirls.

For poor people, it is the government. But of course, the government is actually funding by everyone who pays taxes, except we put a lot current spending on a credit card and leave it future generations to pay it off.

Healthy people subsidize sick people.

Under Obamacare, young folks pay higher insurance costs to make insurance more affordable for 50+-year-old early retirees like myself and the couple in the article.
So by the time we come to young healthy people like yourself who make a decent income, there isn't anybody left to subsidize you! Which means you have to pay the actual cost of healthcare (roughly $3,000-$4,000 for somebody 25-35. Plus you have to pay extra for us old folks TYVM. Look at the bright side, it could be worse if you were a guy, you'd pay extra because men's health care costs are lower than women's.

Until we figure out a way of lowering health care cost in this country, health insurance will remain unaffordable. Right now we are playing a huge shell game trying to get some other sucker to pay for our healthcare.

 

[JickyJuly]

I've never been given the fine for not buying insurance. I just put that I've been covered. I don't think they have the constitutional right to know my health business or fine me for not buying something that is of zero use from a private company.

 

[JickyJuly]

Until we figure out a way of lowering health care cost in this country, health insurance will remain unaffordable.

Hasn't the government locked us in on the crazy health prices? I'm too lazy to google right now, but I remember when Bernie was pushing a bill to let us negotiate prices equal to Canada there was something in there about how the American government actually blocks us from getting lower prices.

 

[AudriTwo]

Until we figure out a way of lowering health care cost in this country, health insurance will remain unaffordable. Right now we are playing a huge shell game trying to get some other sucker to pay for our healthcare.

ehhh but health insurance is for profit.
https://www.axios.com/profits-are-booming-at-health-insurance-companies-2418194773.html

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Hasn't the government locked us in on the crazy health prices? I'm too lazy to google right now, but I remember when Bernie was pushing a bill to let us negotiate prices equal to Canada there was something in there about how the American government actually blocks us from getting lower prices.

There are many many many drivers that make American healthcare the most expensive in the world. High drug price, high doctor and nurse salaries, too much equipment, too many tests, semi-private rooms, a country of obese (include myself) folks. Most of whom don't eat good healthy food and exercise enough, complex insurance process, and a very demanding American public who expect things to operate at Amazon prime speed, with Costco return policies etc. and Nordstrom customer service.

Sadly, despite what Bernie said there aren't easy simple answers. So for example.
Making all drugs free would save about $1,000/per person a year.
Eliminate insurance companies $300-$700
Eliminate malpractice lawsuits and defensive medicine $100-$200.

All of these create their own problem, free drug means Big Pharma can't fund research of new drugs. No malpractice lawsuits makes it harder to get rid of crappy doctors, and hospitals administrators.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

ehhh but health insurance is for profit.
https://www.axios.com/profits-are-booming-at-health-insurance-companies-2418194773.html

Tax insurance company profits at 100% (<$50-100/year/per person.)
Although I will point out that Obamacare was awesome for insurance company stock prices and profits.

 

[AudriTwo]

Tax insurance company profits at 100% (<$50-100/year/per person.)
Although I will point out that Obamacare was awesome for insurance company stock prices and profits.

well yeah i was pointing that to. 2014 it has been an up and up.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

Another cause of America's high health costs is simply having too many uninsured people.

Quite a lot of low-income uninsured people go to the ER for things that definitely need treatment, but would be better addressed by a regular doctor or urgent care facility. The ER is obligated to see them, while the doctor is not, so they go to the ER. Once they get there, they know they need to be taken seriously to be admitted, so they may inflate their symptoms. Likewise, the doctors expect that people in the ER are truly having an emergency, so they're more likely to look for severe and life-threatening conditions (as they should). If a patient says that he's having terrible chest pains, the most painful thing he's ever felt, the doctors take that at face value and do tests for a heart attack or other major issues that would cause severe chest pain. They may do test after test and find nothing, only to realize that this person was having very bad heartburn and just needed a prescription antacid. So an issue that should have taken about 20 minutes from a primary care physician ended up involving a bunch of very expensive tests and care in a hospital.

The people that come to the ER mostly have a health problem that legitimately needed some form of treatment, so it's hard to blame them. You can't exactly tell hospitals that they don't deserve to be paid for doing their jobs in these cases. The patients themselves will probably never have the money to pay back the bills they racked up. And it's quite dangerous to instruct hospitals to make snap judgments about whether an uninsured person actually needs to be there or not. So the hospitals typically eat this type of expense and raise the rates on insured/paying patients to make up the difference.

A lot of our high health costs stem very complicated issues, but this one bugs me because it seems like it should be easier to stop throwing money down the drain on care that isn't needed.

 

[JickyJuly]

The ER doesn't really need to raise its rates to make up for uninsured people though. If they're really poor, they'll have medically needy medicaid that will pay the bill past some amount. Or, they'll do what I've done a few times and settle the bill on a percentage and make the rest a tax write off. They charge insane amounts for everything because they can. A few months ago, I could not stop throwing up. I ended up losing consciousness a couple of times and took an ambulance to the ER. They gave me an anti-nausea med, a few bags of saline, a blood test and a urine test and it was over $2000. The ambulance ride was another $700 something. I've never taken an ambulance in my life. Sorry, but there's no way that salt water, one anti-nausea med and two bodily fluid tests should cost 2 grand. I saw a doctor for 5 minutes. I spent some time with a phlebotomist who likely makes $15 an hour. I took up a stall with a curtain for 2 hours max. It's a racket.

 

[dilligaf0]

I hope those that need it will have Medicaid. If Congress gets it way, Medicaid will be drastically cut leaving millions uninsured.
I do agree that hospital and medical expenses are ridiculously high.

 

[SaffronBurke]

If they're really poor, they'll have medically needy medicaid that will pay the bill past some amount.

Maybe. I avoided going to the doctor for years when I was that poor, because I was not aware that there WAS free state insurance that I could get. I thought that I would have to pay buckets of money if I did go to the doctor, so I just didn't bother.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

It was good for anyone making less than $65,000. The intentions were good, just not practical. Interesting enough the ACA was inspired by a republican idea from the 90's.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Actually, Bill Clinton ran for President with a desire for health care and Hillary was the primary driving factor of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993
https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-clintonian-roots-of-obamacare

ACA was even touted as being a revival of her plan in many corners, including when she was running for President.

But, by the same token, ACA was also partially modeled after the health insurance plan that Massachusetts has, which Romney helped put into place when he was Governor.
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...itt-romney-finally-takes-credit-for-obamacare

The interesting aspect is that no matter what side of the aisle you liken yourself to. There were warning signs that gov't controlled health insurance in America wouldn't work based off of Romney's plan. This article was written in 2008, and I remember the problems associated with RomneyCare

https://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2008/lessons-fall-romneycare

For me, the key fundamental issue with insurance is that very few people ever truly consider the expenses of it until it comes out of their pocket. Why is it that it costs $2 for a Bayer aspirin tablet, or $2.50 for a band-aid? Also, why are some procedures extremely expensive when they shouldn't be? For example, I was having issues with sinus infections. So, they put a small plastic probe into my nostril. It took two minutes, and cost well over $900 just for that procedure alone. Nothing other than a scope was done, no repair, etc. Nothing other than inspection. This was never discussed in terms of costs beforehand. But, because I had it done, I have to pay for it.

There are many issues associated with costs. Because people do not see the expenses directly out of pocket, they either don't take it into consideration. Or, they simply don't care and say "Glad I'm not paying for this!". As mentioned previously, if people were made aware of the costs of services, etc beforehand, we'd see a fundamental change occur. Think about it such as you would call a few different plumbers for repair costs, or auto repair shops. You're looking for the best value, while still getting good service.

Personally, I think the whole industry is a sham to make money. Doctors and pharmacies are working together to maximize profit, while not treating the cause. They only treat the symptoms. Ever wonder why it is that the elderly are on countless medications? Also, why is it that some medications cost $1500, while others are just a few pennies? Granted, some have been around for a while. But, even so $1500 for medication is absurd.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again here. When I get to a point where my health has gone to shit and they start putting me on stuff, I'm ending it. Permanently. Some have no issues trying to stay alive, regardless the cost. Not me. I saw my parents and loved ones deal with it. I refuse to.


EDIT: I should also add that I despise a national care system. I would be more acceptable to a state level plan where if I didn't like it, I could move to a different state that I agreed with. That is what the intent of the different states were when our country was setup.

 

[JickyJuly]

Maybe. I avoided going to the doctor for years when I was that poor, because I was not aware that there WAS free state insurance that I could get. I thought that I would have to pay buckets of money if I did go to the doctor, so I just didn't bother.

It doesn't really help you see a general practitioner unless you can afford to pay them already. Medically needy medicaid is for people who make too much money to qualify for medicaid. They look at your income, and assign you basically a deductible for each month. For them to pay anything, you have to meet that cost for the month. Unless you go someplace that will bill you (basically the ER), you have to pay your whole bill and ask medicaid to reimburse you. For most people, that means you're not going anywhere that isn't going to bill you. They set the working poor up to go to the ER, and the ER soaks up all of Medicaid's money. Their rates are high not to recoup the money from the middle class. The middle class is peanuts compared to their ability to raid Medicaid. They tell the middle class that the poor are abusing the ER so that the real situation goes unnoticed.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

It doesn't really help you see a general practitioner unless you can afford to pay them already. Medically needy medicaid is for people who make too much money to qualify for medicaid. They look at your income, and assign you basically a deductible for each month. For them to pay anything, you have to meet that cost for the month. Unless you go someplace that will bill you (basically the ER), you have to pay your whole bill and ask medicaid to reimburse you. For most people, that means you're not going anywhere that isn't going to bill you. They set the working poor up to go to the ER, and the ER soaks up all of Medicaid's money. Their rates are high not to recoup the money from the middle class. The middle class is peanuts compared to their ability to raid Medicaid. They tell the middle class that the poor are abusing the ER so that the real situation goes unnoticed.

For the duration I was uninsured when I went to the regular clinic, I had to about $75 up front when I registered. They'd then bill me for the rest.

 

[JickyJuly]

For the duration I was uninsured when I went to the regular clinic, I had to about $75 up front when I registered. They'd then bill me for the rest.

That's pretty fortunate! Maybe things in Florida are different because so many people here have Medicare. I went to a clinic for uninsured folks and paid the sliding fee hoping that they'd do a skin cancer checkup. Nope. They couldn't even find me anyplace that would take me as a referral from them. They wrote me a prescription for antidepressants so I wouldn't worry myself to death faster than skin cancer (if present) can kill me. The doctor was nice. Seemed sad he couldn't help me.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Maybe. I avoided going to the doctor for years when I was that poor, because I was not aware that there WAS free state insurance that I could get. I thought that I would have to pay buckets of money if I did go to the doctor, so I just didn't bother.

I think this is/was very common.

One of the promises of ObamaCare is that poor people would stop using the emergency room once they had Medicaid or highly subsidized ACA coverage and go to the primary care physician. It turned out that wasn't the case, Medicaid patients use the ER more not less and they also started using PCP more. Once folks realized that you could see a doctor or go to the ER without it bankrupting you they started going. In most cases under Medicaid, ER and Doctor visits were either free or had a low ($5-$10). If you are super sick you are going to the ER regardless. If you aren't feeling well, it is a hassle to have to wait a week or so to see your PCP (plus generally you get better after a week anyhow). Doctor's only see patients during regular business hours, and if you got a min wage job, you can't really take time off to go see a doctor. It's easier just to go to the ER and wait. Regular insurance discourages ER visit by making them cost a lot more than a PCP.

The complete and utter lack of price transparency in the medical field is also a big problem. Most of us understand that person sitting next to us on a flight or hotel might be paying twice or 1/2 as much as we paid. Same thing is true for buying cans of soda at 7-11 vs Walmart or Costco, probably twice as expensive per can. In the medical world nobody pays anywhere close to list prices. An insurance company would have only paid maybe $500 for Jicky's ambulance ride. My friend had a heart procedure at Stanford the bill was over $120K, but the insurance company only paid them $15K.

Charges are never discussed in advance, and most people don't care, because somebody else is pretty much always paying the actual bill, insurance company, Uncle Sam in the case of Medicare and veterans, our employer etc. While it is true you in an emergency you aren't in position to worry or negotiate cost, that's not always true. You have 7+ months to shop around where you want to have your baby delivered, generally months for elective surgery or treat a chronic condition like diabetes.

 

[MSlider]

I'm lucky I ended up on disability thought I had to wait 2 years to get medicare. They wanted $800 a month to cover me so I went with out. But this is bull crappy. Obama should have never let the insurance companies write the bill. There are are many countries in the world we could have looked at to make intelligent decisions in how to do health care. I would probably be called a conservative but I can see where doing this right would save this nation a lot of money. Free education for doctors unfortunately we have the best politicians money can buy.

 

[Bocefish]

Define premiums

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Define premiums

Cambridge "an amount of money paid at regular times to insure...your health or life, or your home or possessions"
Collins "A premium is a sum of money that you pay regularly to an insurance company for an insurance policy."
Oxford "An amount to be paid for a contract of insurance."
Dictionary.com "Insurance. the amount paid or to be paid by the policyholder for coverage under the contract, usually in periodic installments"
MiriamWebster "the consideration paid for a contract of insurance"

 

[Rose]

Yea.... Our "death only" health insurance is about to skyrocket to over $700 a month. It doesn't cover well woman, ER visits, any sort of general practitioner visits or anything. Basically it only covers death and then only like 5% of it but that's without any sort of co-pays or doctor's costs, hospital fees, taxes, whatever etc.

This was literally the cheapest plan we could get last year and it was $300 something a month. We're not about to not have any healthcare at all at this point because I can't afford or justify paying $700+ a month for death only insurance. We've been fucked over since day one of the Affordable Healthcare Act and this new ruling is about to fuck us even harder. We're not quite on the poverty line, technically speaking, but we're definitely not wealthy or prosperous by any means. We fall in the horrible middle where even if we could afford healthcare we only have like two options available to us and they're extremely outrageous.

Not to mention since we do technically have insurance, any local clinics won't see us and there's no Planned Parenthood here to speak of and the closest one only accepts uninsured patients anyways. Unfortunately with all these new rulings and rates, we're about to join the ranks of the uninsured that are hurting the system, but there's absolutely no way around it for us. It fucking sucks. We're getting screwed over really fucking hard by this system left and right.

 

[AmberCutie]

Yea.... Our "death only" health insurance is about to skyrocket to over $700 a month. It doesn't cover well woman, ER visits, any sort of general practitioner visits or anything. Basically it only covers death

That sounds like life insurance not health insurance? I feel like you know the difference, but just wanted to point out for anyone reading that these are different things.

Life insurance covers costs of your death/arrangements/some money to go to your beneficiary after you die.

Health insurance covers costs of your medical needs while you're alive.

 

[Rose]

That sounds like life insurance not health insurance? I feel like you know the difference, but just wanted to point out for anyone reading that these are different things.

Life insurance covers costs of your death/arrangements/some money to go to your beneficiary after you die.

Health insurance covers costs of your medical needs while you're alive.

Yes, I was exaggerating because our health insurance covers absolutely nothing except a teeny portion of near death warranting ER visits, thus the death only comment. So basically only the most extreme of health circumstances. I think the total would only be like $1500 or 2% of the overall costs something utterly ridiculous and extreme.

Funny enough, or ironically, we have great life insurance on both of us. If either of us croaks, kid will be set up well until he's at least 21 and he'll get the house and all our assets. However, if we die from a health related illness our insurance would stick him with a lifetime of debt most likely. Here's hoping we either die old and never ever get sick or get murdered or have a tragic fatal accident just to avoid health insurance costs. 0.o