Have you ever had issues with pick up artists?

[Dan Epstein]

Oh my god, I totally forgot that on tinder years ago I had a guy who's first message to me was something like whether I could only take photos from a certain angle, which was weird as while I did have photos from that angle, I also had two face straight on photos. He was really rude about it and clearly insinuating it was because if I moved my face a few degrees I would be totally unattractive and asked me to prove it. The guy was good looking, but let's just say he did not receive any further messages. I just thought he was a total dickhead with no social skills, but now I think that was his "pick up" attempt.
I have had a few times in the past where a guy has been particularly nasty to me about my looks, and I have got the vague impression they might actually have been attracted to me, but the whole mean pick up effect has always completely washed over my head and just made me think the guy is a sad prick. It's not that it hasn't upset me either, no one needs to hear some backhanded comment, but it has never led to the guy getting laid or anywhere close to a pick up.
I remember one guy did it to me so much when I was 16 and he was about 21/22, I was dating his friend, and he consistently badgered me, telling me that the guy I was with didn't like me and all sorts of insulting things about me and my looks, really aiming for any potential vulnerability. The guy even threw a drink over me once for no apparent reason. He also gave me a huge amount of attention much to my displeasure. It went on for a few months until one night I was very drunk and he bit my finger, which as a drunken 16 year old I got it into my head to confront him and if he didn't apologise I would bite him back, and well, he threw a drink over me so I bit his face to the point that I drew blood. Let's just say, he lost any interest he might have had in me (if there ever was), and while yeah, I was a crazy bitch for biting him so hard, I feel there is a kind of sweet irony and a lesson learned for these "pick up artist" guys. If you're fucking horrible to women and try to fuck with their insecurities, they might actually just go crazy and attack you. No idea still if he was trying to pick me up or if he was just an arsehole who liked bullying women, at the time I certainly believed the latter, though he was really nice to everyone else so I feel like it probably was an immature attempt to pull.

Note to self, while in a bar fight, call Isabella, she'll hit the bloke like a Newcastle fan....

 

[Dan Epstein]

I am sure he wouldn't need to learn how to be a PUA to game you into bed and oh look he's already ready waiting

You just read my mind, at least you didn't give anyone nightmares with a close up

 

[Just_A_Guy]

Had to google the guy's name. He's clearly completely deranged.
Also found quite amusing that Vice wrote an article on the topic. The same Vice, I suppose, that recently has become quite famous for making sexual harrasments a common behavior in workplaces.

 

[Fatquack]

I have had a few times in the past where a guy has been particularly nasty to me about my looks, and I have got the vague impression they might actually have been attracted to me, but the whole mean pick up effect has always completely washed over my head and just made me think the guy is a sad prick.

They are sad pricks.

 

[Phoenix4987]

In regards to PUA shit. I dunno. A lot of dudes use the shit way wrong.

Nobody ever said to be rude to the girl, you just give an air of indifference. Like, you're not putting the pussy on the pedastal. You show interest, but you're not so into her that you're up her ass 24/7 trying to get a piece. She's just another girl. And in theory, it raises her eyebrow like..why isn't this guy falling over so easily like all the others. It raises interest, if she has any in you to begin with.

It's just simple shit like. Be confident, have a personality (cocky/funny), and be honest (at least about your intentions). The rest is just manipulative shit that chicks smell a mile away. And it doesn't raise trust with the girl if she knows you're being fake as fuck. Playfully disrespecting a girl and being a total dick are two different things.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Playfully disrespecting a girl and being a total dick are two different things.

It could easily be argued that they are the same thing. Disrespecting someone you don't know, even "playfully", is not exactly friendly behaviour. Also, "pussy on a pedestal"? Really? There is no way you can say that and not sound offensive.

The whole "air of indifference" thing works just as much for guys as girls though. If someone is falling over themselves trying to hook up with you it's pretty off putting, partially as it seems desperate, but also because it is very transparent and leaves no chase for the other person. Both genders enjoy a bit of a chase, and not many people enjoy the feeling that they've been "hunted" per say. On the other hand, for the "air of indifference" to work, probably best not to be rude or unfriendly, or even "playfully disrespectful", it just means you're not being ridiculous forward and are giving the person space to make a decision about you. A bit of banter back and forth is fine, but so long as it is genuinely back and forth and not just one person being disrespectful of the other person in an attempt to get a good reaction.

As a woman I can say, contrary to the apparent popular belief, that I do not ever think: "why is this guy not falling over himself to hook up with me?". You make it sound like all men are sharks just drooling over women waiting for any opportunity. Yes you do get those guys where ever you go and they stand out like a sore thumb, but most men do not partake in this sort of activity and are actually perfectly respectful when you speak with them. These respectful and friendly guys are much more likely to gain my interest. I might think that a guy doesn't seem like a total creeper though if he's not "up my ass 24/7" as you so eloquently put it. But that won't make someone stand out on their own. if I wasn't into the guy and we don't get along then there's no chance anyway, it just means that he won't instantly be turning me off.

It is true that some guys have a kind of dickhead charisma, and as much as they're arseholes, they still hook up fairly easily. Having been friends with several of these types over the years, I know that they lie through their teeth to get what they want and deliberately go for easy targets. Not much is off limits, and in reality they are also the types where consent is a "blurred line". From a guy on the outside they probably seem like they have serious game, but the reality is actually pretty disgusting and not something to idolise.

 

[heybarkeep]

I have zero game and can't say I really know much about pick up artists. My style is to go to the bar and wait to be approached or to approach the woman once she starts staring and making it obvious. Even if I'm not attracted to them physically, still fun to socialize with new people. Not willing to approach randomly and be shot down. The thought alone is soul crushing. I put in zero thought and effort because I'm perfectly content and often prefer just hanging out and drinking. My style isn't always successful but for what I put in, I feel I do pretty good. Going in with a plan or strategy seems like a bad idea.

 

[Phoenix4987]

@IsabellaSnow you pretty much just reinforced what I was saying while being more verbose.

Nobody ever said to be rude to the girl

These respectful and friendly guys are much more likely to gain my interest.

Playfully disrespecting a girl and being a total dick are two different things.

A bit of banter back and forth is fine,

It raises interest, if she has any in you to begin with.

. if I wasn't into the guy and we don't get along then there's no chance anyway

The whole basis of it all is to just be a challenge and make things a little more interesting by not showing your hand right off the bat. Not to be a boring asskisser who is always available and all over you like his life depended on it or you're the only option he has available ie -- "Putting the pussy on a pedastal". But in certain cases, like @AudriTwo pointed out, you can put the bullshit behind and just do the damn thing.

 

[SaffronBurke]

I've had a guy or two on Twitter pull the "negging" thing, then follow up with saying that they're trying to fuck and asking if I'm interested.

Well, first, since we're on Twitter, did you bother reading my bio? Cause I made it as clear as possible that I'm here to work, not fuck.


Second, why on earth would I willingly sleep with someone who just insulted me? Please. I don't expect people who are into me to kiss my ass - in fact, I'd prefer they didn't, incessant compliments are annoying - but I do expect them to at least be courteous.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

The whole basis of it all is to just be a challenge and make things a little more interesting by not showing your hand right off the bat. Not to be a boring asskisser who is always available and all over you like his life depended on it or you're the only option he has available ie -- "Putting the pussy on a pedastal". But in certain cases, like @AudriTwo pointed out, you can put the bullshit behind and just do the damn thing.

That really wasn't what I was saying at all.... I love it when a man is always willing to make themselves available and willing to be flexible about his schedule. I don't consider that boring or being an asskisser, I consider it being willing to have a mature relationship with a person you want to spend time with. What I don't like is if a man is so clearly only interested in having sex with me and is therefore coming onto me so much it is just harassment. I like men who will have a conversation with me while maintaining a respectful boundary, without acting like their sole reason for being there is to have sex with me. My point was that I don't find it attractive when men are playing a game at all, and I can sniff those who are from a mile off, not that they should be playing the cool game until they sweep in and get what they're really after.

To be fair though, I should hardly expect a guy who uses the phrase: "the pussy on a pedestal" to understand. Which FYI, repeating the comment does not make it any less offensive. Women are NOT "the pussy", we are human beings you weirdo.

 

[Gen]

I wish more dudes would just talk to women like normal people. White knights and PUAs are both equally cringey. I don’t think you need to be a “yes man” or neg, both those things are off-putting. Just showing interest in learning about the person you’re interested in, and engaging with them in a two-way conversation without being simpering or combative is off to a better start than a lot of dudes.

Maybe it’s because I like the idea of liking someone as a person as opposed to just getting someone attractive into bed, which is counter to the “even if you fail 99x, it only takes one success” thing. But I’m thinking of dating more than just hooking up and have to say that every time I’ve been negged it is not only a boner killer but it also feels so try-hard.

Like all of this sounds like too much work and overthinking; just talk to people who seem interesting and see how it shakes out:

The whole basis of it all is to just be a challenge and make things a little more interesting by not showing your hand right off the bat.

 

[Phoenix4987]

To be fair though, I should hardly expect a guy who uses the phrase: "the pussy on a pedestal" to understand. Which FYI, repeating the comment does not make it any less offensive. Women are NOT "the pussy", we are human beings you weirdo.

"Putting the pussy on a pedastal" is just shop talk vocabulary and a phrase that is largely used by those in the topic of discussion, mostly just to save their egos when they get shattered. If you choose to be offended by it and take it as a personal attack that's on you. If you want to make a personal attack against me based on your assumptions of how I view women, that's just being petty without any actual validation.

Don't think I ever stated in my posts what it is I personally want in a relationship with a woman, if those needs are being met, or my current relationship status or how it's any of your business or right to judge that based on your own bias?

 

[IsabellaSnow]

"Putting the pussy on a pedastal" is just shop talk vocabulary and a phrase that is largely used by those in the topic of discussion, mostly just to save their egos when they get shattered. If you choose to be offended by it and take it as a personal attack that's on you. If you want to make a personal attack against me based on your assumptions of how I view women, that's just being petty without any actual validation.

Don't think I ever stated in my posts what it is I personally want in a relationship with a woman, if those needs are being met, or my current relationship status or how it's any of your business or right to judge that based on your own bias?

Whether it's largely used, does not make it right or ok for you to use it. That rather than apologising for repeatedly referring to women by their genitals, or reevaluating your use of the phrase, you have instead chosen to try to make me seem unreasonable for calling you out on it, pretty much says it all. It's derogatory and you know it.

 

[JickyJuly]

you're not putting the pussy on the pedastal

Pussy's always been on a pedestal. Probably always will be. Men used to have to ask other men (fathers) for it. Now, men have to ask women for it. Some men don't like that and try to play stupid games because they think they're above asking women for anything. Some men go more obviously pathetic and become pick up artists asking any woman that walks by for a chance. Embarrassing.

ETA: Sorry if my use of "pussy on a pedestal" after the others comes off as offensive. I'm fine with it. I'd love to scream it at every girl who falls for the pick up nonsense. When women realize their shit should be on a pedestal, the pick up artists won't get anything. Even if a woman is looking for casual sex, she can and should find someone who is not playing a game.

 

[Phoenix4987]

It's just slang. Derogatory is your personal opinion, which in my opinion, is a bit overly-sensitive and dramatic.

"Bitch" is just slang too and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you'd think it's derogatory. But I know many couples, some happily married, who call each other "bitch" as a means of "playfully disrespecting" each other.

"Bitch, I told you to turn left back there!"
"Motherfucker get off your ass and do the laundry like I told you"
"Omg bitch you're killing me! lol"

It's just language. Not that serious.

 

[Alex_M_21]

I think anyone that consciously tries to adopt certain tactics to pick someone up is clearly doing so because what they were originally doing was failing. The new tactics don't address the original issue and probably make things worse. There's no such thing as a pick up artist, it's not an art, people either find you attractive or they don't. I'm sure the only weight their theory carries is that some woman are probably attracted to dickheads, but they're most likely a very small minority.

I'm pretty sure any guy over the age of 19 who labels himself a "pick up artist" is most likely suffering from some severe kind of personality disorder.

 

[Fatquack]

But, but, but, you want me to talk to girls?

 

[heybarkeep]

Lots of entitlement issues and expectations seem to hurt peoples chances before they even start. Mostly dudes but still plenty of women. Dudes feel entitled to a woman for more dumb reasons than I feel like typing and women, much smaller percentage but no less intolerable or delusional, feel entitled to a man simply because they decided to bless the bar with their presence. They incorrectly assume that just because they put the option out there that you have to be interested. The deranged type that tells themselves men always want sex and they don't care who it is with. Don't bother being polite with this kind, niceness will only be taken advantage of and just digs the hole deeper. Both sides seem to share the same strategy of throwing themselves at every option and then leaving confused and angry to the relief of those they harassed. Neither sex is guaranteed or deserving of anything at bars, except drinks. I'd hope so at least. Would be a pretty shit bar if they couldn't at least guarantee drinks. People want to rush things these days, want instant gratification, no patience. Let things flow naturally.

I think dating sites and the internet in general have probably made starting the relationship process more awkward and less organic. No experience with dating sites but the little I've seen, been subjected to rather, can barely be considered human interaction. Cliche whistling construction workers share a similar courting process. Certain animals are starting to think their process is sophisticated in comparison. Overly complex claim dogs. So tiring grumbled the bulldogs.

 

[Alex_M_21]

Lots of entitlement issues and expectations seem to hurt peoples chances before they even start. Mostly dudes but still plenty of women. Dudes feel entitled to a woman for more dumb reasons than I feel like typing and women, much smaller percentage but no less intolerable or delusional, feel entitled to a man simply because they decided to bless the bar with their presence. They incorrectly assume that just because they put the option out there that you have to be interested. The deranged type that tells themselves men always want sex and they don't care who it is with. Don't bother being polite with this kind, niceness will only be taken advantage of and just digs the hole deeper. Both sides seem to share the same strategy of throwing themselves at every option and then leaving confused and angry to the relief of those they harassed. Neither sex is guaranteed or deserving of anything at bars, except drinks. I'd hope so at least. Would be a pretty shit bar if they couldn't at least guarantee drinks. People want to rush things these days, want instant gratification, no patience. Let things flow naturally.

I think dating sites and the internet in general have probably made starting the relationship process more awkward and less organic. No experience with dating sites but the little I've seen, been subjected to rather, can barely be considered human interaction. Cliche whistling construction workers share a similar courting process. Certain animals are starting to think their process is sophisticated in comparison. Overly complex claim dogs. So tiring grumbled the bulldogs.

That sounds like a pretty shit bar to be honest.