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Gun Appreciation Day "Backfires"

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CBS news video segment how the last ban was ridiculously ineffective and that POS Feinstein just sat there busted with her fake shit eating politician's grin. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7380236n

Many gun control advocates, including Vice President Joe Biden are arguing for so-called “high-capacity" magazine bans that would restrict the number of bullets held in a single magazine to 10 or fewer.

Biden said last Thursday: “I'm much less concerned, quite frankly, with what you'd call an 'assault weapon' than I am with magazines, and the number of rounds that can be held in a [high-capacity] magazine.”

The term “high-capacity magazines” is entirely made-up. Emily Miller wrote in the Washington Times that “many firearms come from the factory with devices that feed between 15 to 30 rounds — some hold more, some less depending on their configuration and purpose. Ten is a number chosen out of thin air for reasons of political theater."

Is the claim that banning these so-called “high capacity” magazines credible? Or would it be more accurate to say (borrowing another Biden quote) "That's a bunch of malarkey"?

All of the existing “high capacity” magazines (and there is a nearly endless supply of them) would be grandfathered in under the proposed bills. This is what 60 Minutes discovered during the last assault weapons ban – it isn't really a ban at all. In fact, they found the legislation had virtually no impact on sales and availability of these so-called “high capacity” magazines. We have to ask ourselves “What would be different this time?”

Would so-called “high capacity” magazine bans prevent mass shootings?

It doesn't seem likely such a ban would prevent mass shootings. Consider that one of the Columbine shooters used a Hi-Point 995 carbine rifle, which uses 10 round magazines. He just carried 13 of them. Similarly, the Virginia Tech shooter used handguns and 17 magazines – mostly of 10-round (but also some 15-round). Two of the highest profile mass shootings in recent history and shooters used 10-round magazines; they just brought a lot of them. These magazines would not have been affected at all by the proposed ban.

Why should average citizens have more than 10-round magazines?

For one thing, some law enforcement officials support it. The County Sheriffs of Colorado (CSOC) is a joint association of Colorado’s 62 sheriffs. A position paper released by the CSOC states law enforcement officers carry magazines with more than 10 rounds because sometimes more than 10 is needed to neutralize a threat. For this reason, the CSOC believes law-abiding citizens should also have the right to 10-round magazines, noting that in high-stress situations it may take several rounds to stop an attacker. The CSOC cites instances (like the recent Georgia mother who defended against a home invader) in which, if there had been more than one attacker law enforcement would be attempting to solve a crime (the murder of a family), rather than arresting a criminal stopped during a crime.

The CSOC further calls the proposed 10-round limit "arbitrary," stating: "When seconds matter, County Sherrifs of Colorado do not want to deny a law-abiding citizen the ability to defend himself and his family based on an arbitrary limit on how bullets should be in one magazine."

What good would a so-called “high capacity” magazine ban do?

Perhaps a better question is “What good would an arbitrary magazine ban do for the public?”. The answer seems to be “not much good at all” - it would not have stopped mass shootings like Virginia Tech or Columbine; it won't impact the majority of homicide victims who are shot at less than 10 times; determined mass shooters can – and have – just carried more magazines anyway. And it may end up doing more harm than good if law-abiding people aren't able to effectively defend themselves in their own homes.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/24263 ... -shootings
 
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I'm staying out of this debate right now because it's turned toxic, and it's useless.

One thing though; if your people did have to rise up against your government in some future scenario, your small band of guerillas aren't just facing the US Govt, you'd be facing NATO, at least. Except it wouldnt ever happen because in reality you wouldn't even be able to co-ordinate a revolution without getting detected and shut down by the FBI, or do a Timothy McVeigh, get caught as you inevitably will, you're not going to be remembered as a war hero you'll be reviled as a terrorist - but worse, a terrorist who attacks his own countrymen. McVeigh thought he was a patriot too when he bombed the ATF office in Oklahoma. He and his brother were also active in nationalist militia groups. You know - those guys who claim they're training in case of revolution.

Bottom line, even if you could start an open revolution you'd be crushed, and if somehow you weren't other international allies would come in and help crush you. I know some of you probably fantasize about being Rambo but I don't think you could take on the combined power of the US and all it's allies. If there was widespread insurgency in any NATO country the others would be obliged to respond.
 
Jupiter551 said:
Bottom line, even if you could start an open revolution you'd be crushed, and if somehow you weren't other international allies would come in and help crush you. I know some of you probably fantasize about being Rambo but I don't think you could take on the combined power of the US and all it's allies. If there was widespread insurgency in any NATO country the others would be obliged to respond.

I wonder if its the empowerment of holding a gun the drives this fetish, or if they actually train at all. Sitting in a swamp somewhere with a AR 15 clone isn't really preparation for resisting a despotic government.
 
Now, onto some relevant and meaningful FACTS, info and suggestions.

First, we need to set the record straight on a few things. The current debate is over so-called “assault weapons” and high capacity magazines. The terms “assault weapon” and “assault rifle” are often confused. According to Bruce H. Kobayashi and Joseph E. Olson, writing in the Stanford Law and Policy Review, “Prior to 1989, the term ‘assault weapon’ did not exist in the lexicon of firearms. It is a political term [underline added for emphasis], developed by anti-gun publicists to expand the category of assault rifles.”

The M4A1 carbine is a U.S. military service rifle – it is an assault rifle. The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. The “AR” in its name does not stand for “Assault Rifle” – it is the designation from the first two letters of the manufacturer’s name – ArmaLite Corporation. The AR-15 is designed so that it cosmetically looks like the M4A1 carbine assault rifle, but it is impossible to configure the AR-15 to be a fully automatic assault rifle. It is a single shot semi-automatic rifle that can fire between 45 and 60 rounds per minute depending on the skill of the operator. The M4A1 can fire up to 950 rounds per minute. In 1986, the federal government banned the import or manufacture of new fully automatic firearms for sale to civilians. Therefore, the sale of assault rifles are already banned or heavily restricted!

The second part of the current debate is over “high capacity magazines” capable of holding more than 10 rounds in the magazine. As experts in military weapons of all types, it is our considered opinion that reducing magazine capacity from 30 rounds to 10 rounds will only require an additional 6 -8 seconds to change two empty 10 round magazines with full magazines. Would an increase of 6 –8 seconds make any real difference to the outcome in a mass shooting incident? In our opinion it would not. Outlawing such “high capacity magazines” would, however, outlaw a class of firearms that are “in common use”. As such this would be in contravention to the opinion expressed by the U.S. Supreme Court recent decisions.

Moreover, when the Federal Assault Weapons Ban became law in 1994, manufacturers began retooling to produce firearms and magazines that were compliant. One of those ban-compliant firearms was the Hi-Point 995, which was sold with ten-round magazines. In 1999, five years into the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, the Columbine High School massacre occurred. One of the perpetrators, Eric Harris, was armed with a Hi-Point 995. Undeterred by the ten-round capacity of his magazines, Harris simply brought more of them: thirteen magazines would be found in the massacre’s aftermath. Harris fired 96 rounds before killing himself.

Now that we have those facts straight, in our opinion, it is too easy to conclude that the problem is guns and that the solution to the problem is more and stricter gun control laws. For politicians, it is politically expedient to take that position and pass more gun control laws and then claim to constituents that they have done the right thing in the interest of protecting our children. Who can argue with that? Of course we all want to find a solution. But, is the problem really guns? Would increasing gun regulation solve the problem? Did we outlaw cars to combat drunk driving?

What can we learn from experiences with this issue elsewhere? We cite the experience in Great Britain. Despite the absence of a “gun culture”, Great Britain, with one-fifth the population of the U.S., has experienced mass shootings that are eerily similar to those we have experienced in recent years. In 1987 a lone gunman killed 18 people in Hungerford. What followed was the Firearms Act of 1988 making registration mandatory and banning semi-automatic guns and pump-action shotguns. Despite this ban, on March 13, 1996 a disturbed 43-year old former scout leader, Thomas Hamilton, murdered 16 school children aged five and six and a teacher at a primary school in Dunblane, Scotland. Within a year and a half the Firearms Act was amended to ban all private ownership of hand guns. After both shootings there were amnesty periods resulting in the surrender of thousands of firearms and ammunition. Despite having the toughest gun control laws in the world, gun related crimes increased in 2003 by 35% over the previous year with firearms used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the preceding 12 months. Gun related homicides were up 32% over the same period. Overall, gun related crime had increased 65% since the Dunblane massacre and implementation of the toughest gun control laws in the developed world.

In contrast, in 2009 (5 years after the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired) total firearm related homicides in the U.S. declined by 9% from the 2005 high (Source: “FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Master File, Table 310, Murder Victims – Circumstances and Weapons Used or Cause of Death: 2000-2009”).
Are there unintended consequences to stricter gun control laws and the politically expedient path that we have started down?

In a recent op-ed piece in the San Francisco Chronicle, Brett Joshpe stated that “Gun advocates will be hard-pressed to explain why the average American citizen needs an assault weapon with a high-capacity magazine other than for recreational purposes.”We agree with Kevin D. Williamson (National Review Online, December 28, 2012): “The problem with this argument is that there is no legitimate exception to the Second Amendment right that excludes military-style weapons, because military-style weapons are precisely what the Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear.”

“The purpose of the Second Amendment is to secure our ability to oppose enemies foreign and domestic, a guarantee against disorder and tyranny. Consider the words of Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story”: ‘The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.’

The Second Amendment has been ruled to specifically extend to firearms “in common use” by the military by the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v Miller (1939). In Printz v U.S. (1997) Justice Thomas wrote: “In Miller we determined that the Second Amendment did not guarantee a citizen’s right to possess a sawed-off shot gun because that weapon had not been shown to be “ordinary military equipment” that could “could contribute to the common defense”.

A citizen’s right to keep and bear arms for personal defense unconnected with service in a militia has been reaffirmed in the U.S. Supreme Court decision (District of Columbia, et al. v Heller, 2008). The Court Justice Scalia wrote in the majority opinion: “The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.“. Justice Scalia went on to define a militia as “… comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense ….” “The Anti-Federalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.” he explained.

On September 13, 1994, the Federal Assault Weapons Ban went into effect. A Washington Post editorial published two days later was candid about the ban’s real purpose:“[N]o one should have any illusions about what was accomplished [by the ban]. Assault weapons play a part in only a small percentage of crime. The provision is mainly symbolic; its virtue will be if it turns out to be, as hoped, a stepping stone to broader gun control.”

In a challenge to the authority of the Federal government to require State and Local Law Enforcement to enforce Federal Law (Printz v United States) the U.S. Supreme Court rendered a decision in 1997. For the majority opinion Justice Scalia wrote: “…. this Court never has sanctioned explicitly a federal command to the States to promulgate and enforce laws and regulations When we were at last confronted squarely with a federal statute that unambiguously required the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program, our decision should have come as no surprise….. It is an essential attribute of the States’ retained sovereignty that they remain independent and autonomous within their proper sphere of authority.”

So why should non-gun owners, a majority of Americans, care about maintaining the 2nd Amendment right for citizens to bear arms of any kind? The answer is “The Battle of Athens, TN”. The Cantrell family
had controlled the economy and politics of McMinn County, Tennessee since the 1930s. Paul Cantrell had been Sheriff from 1936 -1940 and in 1942 was elected to the State Senate. His chief deputy, Paul Mansfield, was subsequently elected to two terms as Sheriff. In 1946 returning WWII veterans put up a popular candidate for Sheriff. On August 1 Sheriff Mansfield and 200 “deputies” stormed the post office polling place to take control of the ballot boxes wounding an objecting observer in the process. The veterans bearing military style weapons, laid siege to the Sheriff’s office demanding return of the ballot boxes for public counting of the votes as prescribed in Tennessee law. After exchange of gun fire and blowing open the locked doors, the veterans secured the ballot boxes thereby protecting the integrity of the election. And this is precisely why all Americans should be concerned about protecting all of our right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment!

Throughout history, disarming the populace has always preceded tyrants’ accession of power. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao all disarmed their citizens prior to installing their murderous regimes. At the beginning of our own nation’s revolution, one of the first moves made by the British government was an attempt to disarm our citizens. When our Founding Fathers ensured that the 2nd Amendment was made a part of our Constitution, they were not just wasting ink. They were acting to ensure our present security was never forcibly endangered by tyrants, foreign or domestic.

If there is a staggering legal precedent to protect our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms and if stricter gun control laws are not likely to reduce gun related crime, why are we having this debate? Other than making us and our elected representatives feel better because we think that we are doing something to protect our children, these actions will have no effect and will only provide us with a false sense of security.

So, what do we believe will be effective? First, it is important that we recognize that this is not a gun control problem; it is a complex sociological problem. No single course of action will solve the problem. Therefore, it is our recommendation that a series of diverse steps be undertaken, the implementation of which will require patience and diligence to realize an effect. These are as follows:

1. First and foremost we support our Second Amendment right in that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

2. We support State and Local School Boards in their efforts to establish security protocols in whatever manner and form that they deem necessary and adequate. One of the great strengths of our Republic is that State and Local governments can be creative in solving problems. Things that work can be shared. Our point is that no one knows what will work and there is no one single solution, so let’s allow the State and Local governments with the input of the citizens to make the decisions. Most recently the Cleburne Independent School District will become the first district in North Texas to consider allowing some teachers to carry concealed guns. We do not opine as to the appropriateness of this decision, but we do support their right to make this decision for themselves.

3. We recommend that Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT) laws be passed in every State. AOT is formerly known as Involuntary Outpatient Commitment (IOC) and allows the courts to order certain individuals with mental disorders to comply with treatment while living in the community. In each of the mass shooting incidents the perpetrator was mentally unstable. We also believe that people who have been adjudicated as incompetent should be simultaneously examined to determine whether they should be allowed the right to retain/purchase firearms.

4. We support the return of firearm safety programs to schools along the lines of the successful “Eddie the Eagle” program, which can be taught in schools by Peace Officers or other trained professionals.

5. Recent social psychology research clearly indicates that there is a direct relationship between gratuitously violent movies/video games and desensitization to real violence and increased aggressive behavior particularly in children and young adults (See Nicholas L. Carnagey, et al. 2007. “The effect of video game violence on physiological desensitization to real-life violence” and the references therein. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology 43:489-496). Therefore, we strongly recommend that gratuitous violence in movies and video games be discouraged. War and war-like behavior should not be glorified. Hollywood and video game producers are exploiting something they know nothing about. General Sherman famously said “War is Hell!” Leave war to the Professionals. War is not a game and should not be “sold” as entertainment to our children.

6. We support repeal of the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. This may sound counter-intuitive, but it obviously isn’t working. It is our opinion that “Gun-Free Zones” anywhere are too tempting of an environment for the mentally disturbed individual to inflict their brand of horror with little fear of interference. While governmental and non-governmental organizations, businesses, and individuals should be free to implement a Gun-Free Zone if they so choose, they should also assume Tort liability for that decision.

7. We believe that border states should take responsibility for implementation of border control laws to prevent illegal shipments of firearms and drugs. Drugs have been illegal in this country for a long, long time yet the Federal Government manages to seize only an estimated 10% of this contraband at our borders. Given this dismal performance record that is misguided and inept (“Fast and Furious”), we believe that border States will be far more competent at this mission.

8. This is our country, these are our rights. We believe that it is time that we take personal responsibility for our choices and actions rather than abdicate that responsibility to someone else under the illusion that we have done something that will make us all safer. We have a responsibility to stand by our principles and act in accordance with them. Our children are watching and they will follow the example we set.

The undersigned Quiet Professionals hereby humbly stand ever present, ever ready, and ever vigilant.
http://sofrep.com/16644/1000-green-bere ... amendment/
 
tumblr_mhjodzvBHT1ql2603o1_500.jpg
 
Jupiter551 said:
I'm staying out of this debate right now because it's turned toxic, and it's useless....

...as he goes on to, once again, predict the future. Which is it? Are you out of this debate or do you have another point to make? You got confronted with the way it is rather than the way you think it ought to be and that makes the conversation "toxic"? When it comes to being yellow, you're battin' a thousand. Every bit of that garbage was said about the Founding Fathers, in some form or another. Instead of all that bullshit "you can't, you can't, you can't", you should crack a book and see what armed civilians have already done. Turns out we can.

The American revolution aside, you might find 1946's Battle of Athens interesting. Turns out that an armed 10% can fight government corruption and win. Not only did they win, but much like the Founders, they weren't vilified but are held up as heroes.

Keep posting. This is getting easier.
 
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MrRodry said:


Posting this here because I think it's relevant to the topic and because I agree with the message at the ending.


Five minutes in and I can already point out several omissions, errors and at least one "I told ya' so".

1. The video fails to point out that all of the mass shootings listed on the U.S. map were in jurisdictions where citizens were disarmed by government and/or "gun free zones".

2. The video claims America accounts for 50% of gun ownership in the world. A very liberal estimate would say 40%, but it's probably closer to 22%. I WISH we had 50% of all the guns.

3.The video claims 41% of Americans believed Obama would ban the sale of "all guns" during his tenure in office. That's not true, either. The study in question said that 41% of Americans believed that Obama would push for some form of liberal gun control measures during his tenure. I remember Democrats claiming that this was paranoid nonsense. Turns out, we were right, after all.

4. It's subtle, but the series is called "Fringes", insinuating that gun owners are a crazy minority of the American citizenry. We can see plainly that this just isn't so.

Need I continue? That show is a sensationalized ratings whore, nothing more.
 
CarolinaCutie said:
MrRodry said:


Posting this here because I think it's relevant to the topic and because I agree with the message at the ending.


Five minutes in and I can already point out several omissions, errors and at least one "I told ya' so".

1. The video fails to point out that all of the mass shootings listed on the U.S. map were in jurisdictions where citizens were disarmed by government and/or "gun free zones".

2. The video claims America accounts for 50% of gun ownership in the world. A very liberal estimate would say 40%, but it's probably closer to 22%. I WISH we had 50% of all the guns.

3.The video claims 41% of Americans believed Obama would ban the sale of "all guns" during his tenure in office. That's not true, either. The study in question said that 41% of Americans believed that Obama would push for some form of liberal gun control measures during his tenure. I remember Democrats claiming that this was paranoid nonsense. Turns out, we were right, after all.

4. It's subtle, but the series is called "Fringes", insinuating that gun owners are a crazy minority of the American citizenry. We can see plainly that this just isn't so.

Need I continue? That show is a sensationalized ratings whore, nothing more.


I agree the Vice videos are generally sensationalist, but unlike you they do research some of the facts they use.

Do you really think any of the mass shooters gave a single thought to "gun free zones"? This is NRA propaganda, pure and simple. When Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks, his answer was "that is where the money is." Gun free zones are where the people are, or where the shooters grievance is. Correlation does not equal causation.

A 2007 survey by the U.N's Office on Drugs and Crime found that the United States, which has 5% of the world's population, owns 50% of the world's guns.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/politics/gun-ownership-declining/index.html

A study published in the Injury Prevention Journal, based on a 2004 National Firearms Survey, found that 20% of the gun owners with the most firearms possessed about 65% of the nation's guns.
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/13/1/15.full
I would say that is a minority. Whether they are crazy are not is another matter of debate. :lol:

Guns do not make us safer, or the US would be the safest country on earth. Also, some gun control laws do not necessarily work either, Chicago is proof of that.

The riddle of the gun.
 
Just Me said:
Do you really think any of the mass shooters gave a single thought to "gun free zones"? This is NRA propaganda, pure and simple.
Oh really?

Why do these mass shooting cowards choose gun free zones then?

Why did the murderous coward that shot all those people in the movie theater choose the only one in his hood that advertised it was a gun free zone?

Cooincidence?

Do a little research on the subject before trying to spew ignorant bovine excrement as fact.



Ignorant media fucktards and other high profile ignorant fucktards that try to reason with emotions are brainwashing the other ignorant fucks who watch them.

High velocity, military style weapons is the standard ignorant fucktards irrational fear. Get a clue people!
 
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Just Me said:
Guns do not make us safer

VavzJIn.jpg


Just Me said:
Also, some gun control laws do not necessarily work either, Chicago is proof of that.

A major part of the problem with Chicago's gang and gun problems is the corruption and lack of prosecution along with pathetic 6 month prison terms for some gun offenders.

FmdBzcf.jpg


A state that is so riculously in debt due to corruption can't afford adequate numbers of honest police officers and the criminals know it.
 
I saw this picture and wondered if it was true, so I looked it up. Well it was, the NRA and the Republicans used to be for gun control for some weird reason.

XQStFWn.png

The Gun Control Act of 1968 referred to in the 1980 Republican platform, among other things, banned the sale of firearms by mail, and established a federal system of licensing individuals and companies who bought and sold guns—“the Communist line,” according to the NRA’s magazine American Rifleman. It also included a “sporting purpose” test to attempt to ban guns known as “Saturday night specials”: cheap, throwaway guns some believed all but useless for anything but the commission of crimes. That statutory formula (no guns with short barrels, small calibers and non-adjustable sights) did not work. Saturday night specials stayed on the streets. And by the 1970s one of the most active lobbies in new attempts to control them was… the NRA. In 1971, their director said, “We are for it 100 percent. We would like to get rid of these guns.” In 1973, their man in Congress, Michigan Democrat John Dingell, introduced the latest bill to ban them.
 
Bocefish said:
Your point is what?

That the NRA tried to ban hand guns based on their cosmetic appearances, because they had no use real use in sporting and were only good for killing people. I just thought it was strange how things change over time. It made me LOL to see them fighting the things they used to support, and I decided to share the Karmatic joke.
 
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Shaun__ said:
Bocefish said:
Your point is what?

That the NRA tried to ban hand guns based on their cosmetic appearances, because they had no use real use in sporting and were only good for killing people.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but where do you specifically think there is ANY evidence of the NRA trying to ban guns on their cosmetic appearance?

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/laws/gca68.htm
 
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Shaun__ said:
I saw this picture and wondered if it was true, so I looked it up. Well it was, the NRA and the Republicans used to be for gun control for some weird reason.

XQStFWn.png

The Gun Control Act of 1968 referred to in the 1980 Republican platform, among other things, banned the sale of firearms by mail, and established a federal system of licensing individuals and companies who bought and sold guns—“the Communist line,” according to the NRA’s magazine American Rifleman. It also included a “sporting purpose” test to attempt to ban guns known as “Saturday night specials”: cheap, throwaway guns some believed all but useless for anything but the commission of crimes. That statutory formula (no guns with short barrels, small calibers and non-adjustable sights) did not work. Saturday night specials stayed on the streets. And by the 1970s one of the most active lobbies in new attempts to control them was… the NRA. In 1971, their director said, “We are for it 100 percent. We would like to get rid of these guns.” In 1973, their man in Congress, Michigan Democrat John Dingell, introduced the latest bill to ban them.
Bocefish said:
Shaun__ said:
Bocefish said:
Your point is what?

That the NRA tried to ban hand guns based on their cosmetic appearances, because they had no use real use in sporting and were only good for killing people.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but where do you specifically think there is ANY evidence of the NRA trying to ban guns on their cosmetic appearance?

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/laws/gca68.htm
 
Bocefish said:
Just Me said:
Do you really think any of the mass shooters gave a single thought to "gun free zones"? This is NRA propaganda, pure and simple.
Oh really?

Why do these mass shooting cowards choose gun free zones then?

Why did the murderous coward that shot all those people in the movie theater choose the only one in his hood that advertised it was a gun free zone?

Cooincidence?

Do a little research on the subject before trying to spew ignorant bovine excrement as fact.



Ignorant media fucktards and other high profile ignorant fucktards that try to reason with emotions are brainwashing the other ignorant fucks who watch them.

High velocity, military style weapons is the standard ignorant fucktards irrational fear. Get a clue people!


Yes, really. Did you even listen to the clip you posted? Everything he said was his speculation with no evidence to back it up. Soledad even called him on it. Correlation does not equal causation. Coincidence and the fact that gun free zones are generally made where people gather are more likely than a shooter choosing the place because he thinks the civilians are unarmed. Until one of these shooters comes out and says they targeted these places specifically because it was a gun free zone then your bovine excrement is the same as mine.

Oh, and to doing a little research? Maybe you should see if the person you are using to cite is even credible. :roll:

Mary Rosh persona
As part of the dispute surrounding the missing survey, Lott created and used "Mary Rosh" as a fake persona to defend his own works on Usenet and elsewhere. After investigative work by blogger Julian Sanchez, Lott admitted to use of the Rosh persona.[8] Sanchez also pointed out that Lott, posing as Rosh, not only praised his own academic writing, but also called himself "the best professor I ever had".
Many commentators and academics accused Lott of transgressing normal practice, noting that he praised himself while posing as one of his former students,[66][67] and that "Rosh" was used to post a favorable review of More Guns, Less Crime on Amazon.com. Lott has claimed that the "Rosh" review was written by his son and wife.[67]
"I probably shouldn't have done it—I know I shouldn't have done it—but it's hard to think of any big advantage I got except to be able to comment fictitiously," Lott told the Washington Post in 2003.[67]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott
 
Just Me said:
Coincidence and the fact that gun free zones are generally made where people gather are more likely than a shooter choosing the place because he thinks the civilians are unarmed. Until one of these shooters comes out and says they targeted these places specifically because it was a gun free zone then your bovine excrement is the same as mine.

Your "fact" that gun free zones are generally made where people gather is fucking brilliant! Nobel Prize Nominee FOR SURE!

Just Me said:
Until one of these shooters comes out and says they targeted these places specifically because it was a gun free zone then your bovine excrement is the same as mine.

The mentally ill, mass shooting cowards kill themselves the very moment they are challenged by good people with guns. What other proof do you need?!?!????
 
Bocefish said:
Are you short-bus reading comprehension challenged?

What is the source of that quote?

Stop being lazy and find it yourself. I found the the pole you posted that was cropped to make Obama look bad, in that other thread, with no trouble at all.

I am skimming the 1968 act you posted and found the school zones you hate, and what look like all kinds of cosmetic rules. How exactly does a scary folding stalk make a gun more dangerous Boce, I only ask since you said I was wrong about there being cosmetic rules?

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of --

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of

the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
 
Shaun__ said:
Stop being lazy and find it yourself. I found the the pole you posted that was cropped to make Obama look bad, in that other thread, with no trouble at all.

I'm supposed to find the source of the quote somebody else quoted?

Pole?

:lol:

Dipshit comes to mind for some reason.
 
Bocefish said:
Shaun__ said:
Stop being lazy and find it yourself. I found the the pole you posted that was cropped to make Obama look bad, in that other thread, with no trouble at all.

I'm supposed to find the source of the quote somebody else quoted?

Pole?

:lol:

Dipshit comes to mind for some reason.

I see you ignored my question. I guess you were too lazy to read the 1968 thing or look for my source. I think a filthy liberal may have written it to be honest so you may want to shield your unable to find things on the internet eyes lest they be blinded by views you disagree with. Damn it took longer to make this clickable link for lazy people than to find the source of my quote, without looking in my history or anything.

Also if I remove a folding stock from a semiautomatic shotgun and replace it with a detachable one instead does that make the gun safer? You told me there were no cosmetic things in the 1968 act, and since I trust you it must in some way I can not see make it less dangerous.
 
Bocefish said:
Shaun__ said:
I see you ignored my question.

Be direct, specify your question(s) as if you had a pair and I won't ignore it.

Technically I don't have a pair, I just have one. So I am unable to comply with your request. I would offer to let you see my bitchen new scar, but you are unworthy of that honor.

On a side note I wonder if any models are going to say they love my testicles, only to tell me they hate fake balls when they learn one of mine is made of silicone.
ppLAsci.jpg
 
Shaun__ said:
Bocefish said:
On a side note I wonder if any models are going to say they love my testicles, only to tell me they hate fake balls when they learn one of mine is made of silicone.
ppLAsci.jpg

Now you make me want to play with it to see if I can feel a difference... :p

I think, having both testicles fake and not revealing it to a serious partner would be a problem, since she might want children. But if I remember correctly, only having one doesn't impede fertility? If you had two fake testicles, then you'd really be able to tell her "don't worry about birth control, I got that covered". :p
 
LadyLuna said:
Now you make me want to play with it to see if I can feel a difference... :p

I think, having both testicles fake and not revealing it to a serious partner would be a problem, since she might want children. But if I remember correctly, only having one doesn't impede fertility? If you had two fake testicles, then you'd really be able to tell her "don't worry about birth control, I got that covered". :p

You can play doctor with me if you want Luna, and exam me. :oops:

Having one does not hurt your fertility, but I am unable to get the surgery I wanted to get due to the tumor marker levels in my blood. That means chemotherapy has to start this month, and I may need to use IVF if I ever want to have children. Well in truth I may need IVF and will need a woman if I ever want children.
 
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Vicky_D said:
For those that think I'm being combative, aggressive and just plain ol' mean, you're right. I'll be the first to admit it.

I see people arguing the case for the immoral invasion of my personal liberty and the theft of my property. I see people who advocate that the state, a violent and coercive institution by nature, intrude on my privacy because they don't get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside when they see a gun. I see people who ignore the total failure of the very tyrannical laws they support and presume to demand that I ask permission to have the tools to protect myself, that I give men in suits with a pretense of knowledge a running list of those tools, that I pass their tests and jump through their hoops like a trained animal. Am I being aggressive? You're Goddamned right I am.

Every time their efforts expand, so will the amount of aggression they'll draw from me. Heed the rattle of our tails, gentlemen, because once it falls silent, you're already dying.

images
Well said Vicky
 
Jupiter551 said:
Bocefish said:

I'm not watching the whole thing, but as to the whole overthrowing the government thing, this isn't the days of muskets and an empire months travel away - regardless of how many ar-15s they have Earl and his cousin Bobby-Ray aren't going to last long against tanks and predator drones.


Really?

You think the American Revolution, in 1776, was the only time lightly armed civilians/guerrillas ever beat a large, well equipped Army?

Have you heard of a place called Afghanistan? Or Iraq? Or maybe Vietnam?

How well did the largest and most powerful/expensive military in the world do in those situations?

Afghanistan gives a triple word score, because those poorly armed Afghanis have done it at least 3 times (to the USA, the USSR, and the British).

I could give you dozens of other examples, ranging from the ancient world to the present.

History is replete with examples of relatively poorly armed, but motivated, people bringing the best armies in the world to their knees.

I served 30 years in the US Army, and let me tell you, an expensive, powerful M-1 tank is of MINIMAL usefulness against guerrillas in an urban/mountainous/jungle/heavily forested area.

Think about it. We've been fighting primitive tribesmen with rifles and pistols in Afghanistan now for TWELVE FREAKING YEARS- using tanks, jets, aircraft carriers, predator drones, missiles, and everything else, and we are no close to winning now than we were in 2001. We could stay there until 2030, and we wouldn't win.

To say nothing of the fact that a lot of those in the US military would be even less enthusiastic (and therefore even less effective) about shooting Americans than they were about shooting VC or Iraqis. Many in the military might even be sympathetic to "Earl and Bobby Ray"- as would a lot of military veterans. Hell, Earl and Bobby Ray might well be veterans.

Don't be too impressed by big guns and technology. Those things have their uses, but they don't win wars by themselves.
 
Jupiter551 said:
CarolinaCutie said:
CarolinaCutie said:
The militia isn't a standing army, it's the whole of the people. “I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people.” -George Mason. If you understood American history, this would already be clear.
Haha really? Because in American history the militia weren't the whole of the people, they were small locally raised volunteers with a reputation of breaking off from combat prematurely and generally being unreliable amateurs. Funnily enough that's exactly what they were - farmers and trappers and shopkeepers - amateurs. They played a role both from a political standpoint to help the 13 colonies trust one another, and a practical one of engaging in local skirmishes, supporting the bulk of the Continental Army when possible but generally had a poor reputation among regular troops. Most of the command structure of the Continental Army was comprised of former British forces and their colonial auxilleries lol, the idea that the average citizens who were in mostly disorganised local militias acting without efficient chain of command were responsible for securing independence is a ridiculous romantic fiction.

While the militia was inconsistent during the Revolutionary War (as was the "professional" Continental Army for much of the war), it sometimes performed well, especially in the Southern campaigns. The militia comprised the bulk of the American forces at a number of battles that the Americans won- from small engagements like Lexington, Concord, and others most have never heard of, to significant battles like Cowpens. They also performed well situationally, even in battles where they were not the primary force- including playing key roles at battles like Saratoga (the "turning point" of the war).

More importantly, a modern militia would be very different than that of 1776.

In 1776, the militia was comprised of amateurs with no military experience. Those northern farmers and shopkeepers didn't fare all that well most of the time. The southern mountain men and hunters did MUCH better.

At that time, every pro-revolutionary with a lick of military experience was put into the Continental Army, because precious few American colonists had any military experience. The few Americans that had military experience largely got it from the French and Indian Wars decades before.

That is NOT the case today.

Today, the USA has tens of millions of military veterans in it's civilian populace, given that we have kept a massive military in tact essentially since WW2. A militia formed from that population would likely have a good number of military veterans and would perform far better than the almost 100% amateur force of 1776.

I'm an Army veteran of 30+ years, 1981-2012.

If I was to serve in a militia unit today, do you think I'd be as clueless as those farmers and shop keepers of 1776? I may have a few grey hairs, but I'm sure I could be an effective military officer today. I could fight, but more importantly, I could lead, organize, and train a militia force very effectively.

Clearly, a modern US militia would have a significant cadre of experienced officers and NCOs- far different than what we had in 1776.

And I'm betting that a lot of those civilian ex-military folks like myself are people who own guns, and would want to keep them.
 
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