Fox Fallon - Transgender MMA fighter

[mynameisbob84]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03...bc_sport&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport

What are folk's thoughts on Fox Fallon? I'm really conflicted.

One the one hand, I'm definitely of the belief that if a person born with male genitalia wants to identify as female (or vice versa), and feels so strongly that they were born in the wrong body that they're prepared to go through life-altering surgery and gender re-assignment, then that person deserves nothing but support.

On the other hand though, it's hard to ignore the fact that even once a biological male has transitioned into womanhood, there are going to be certain physical and biological characteristics carried over from their previous life. Things like skeletal structure, bone density, skull thickness, muscle mass and placement, height, weight... these things are inevitably going to give a female MMA fighter who was born a male, an unfair, and potentially even dangerous advantage over a female MMA fighter who wasn't born male.

What are people's take on this?

 

[Shaun__]

If she fits into the weight class I do not care. I would not choose to enter the woman's league myself though if I was in those circumstances. I remember one some sporting event were they did DNA testing on a winner to make sure she was female, she was, some women have male characteristics so it is not impossible for it to happen without surgery.

 

[weirdbr]

If she fits into the weight class I do not care. I would not choose to enter the woman's league myself though if I was in those circumstances. I remember one some sporting event were they did DNA testing on a winner to make sure she was female, she was, some women have male characteristics so it is not impossible for it to happen without surgery.

Dunno if I'm thinking of the same person as you are, but in Brazil we had a long story of people claiming that Edinanci Silva, a judo fighter, was male simply because she was kicking ass and "looked like a dude" - that story dragged on for years, including multiple tests that over and over had proven that she was a woman and she wasn't using any performance enhancing drugs.

On the other hand though, it's hard to ignore the fact that even once a biological male has transitioned into womanhood, there are going to be certain physical and biological characteristics carried over from their previous life. Things like skeletal structure, bone density, skull thickness, muscle mass and placement, height, weight... these things are inevitably going to give a female MMA fighter who was born a male, an unfair, and potentially even dangerous advantage over a female MMA fighter who wasn't born male.

This is where the current scientific uncertainty enters - personally I think it will depend a lot on when the athlete started doing hormone replacement therapy, since AFAIK the majority of development that is important for sports like MMA happens during puberty primarily thanks to sexual hormones. It's possible that a transgender athlete that began HRT early is, for all intents and purposes of the sport, physically similar to someone of their non-birth gender (I wonder - is there a specific term that can be used here?), but we lack scientific data to confirm that.

 

[ACFFAN69]

I was following this story a lot when it came out. Sadly because I don't know enough about the changes gender reassignment surgery does and how much of an effect hormone replacement therapy has, I feel I'm not educated enough to have a strong opinion either way. I've read articles saying that after many years the difference between a transgender and a woman becomes very little (in the ways you mention: skeletal structure, bone density, etc). I've also read studies saying the exact opposite. I do find it hard to believe that gender reassignment surgery can affect things like the size/density of a hand for example, so my trust lies more with the opposite.

At the same time though, there are inherent bones structure/density/muscular/testosterone differences between everyone. I'd never be able to do what Shane Carwin does because those canned hams he calls hands are worlds apart from mine for example. Then again, there is also an obvious and important reason there are womens divisions and mens divisions. Once you add the fact that some women are probably (or if the womens division of the sport keeps taking off like it is, will most definately be) taking steroids, the subject becomes far less black and white.

The one thing that very much bothers me about her story is that she didn't disclose her medical status as a transgender when applying for her license to fight. No one actually was aware that this seemingly monster of a fighter that was knocking people out in brutal fashion within 20-30 seconds was actually born a man. It ended up getting leaked to the media from an outside source before the athletic commissions found out. That is incredibly shady and implies that she realized there might be something wrong with it. A lie of omission is still a lie, and this is a sport that can have permanent debilitating effects on people, making the lie that much more abhorrent.

My initial reaction is that it's just to dangerous to allow in this sport (where a foreseeable danger is actually brain damage). I'd be fine though if it was obvious that the difference post gender reassignment surgery between a female and a transgender woman after many years is little.

This also reminds me of the transgender 50 year old college basketball player Gabrielle Ludwig. She used to play college basketball in the 80's as a man. She is now playing against young 18 year old girls and presumably dominating. It seems a little gross and silly, but at least in basketball your goal isn't to send someone to the hospital:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ludwig-robert-ludwig-mission-college/1744703/

If she fits into the weight class I do not care. I would not choose to enter the woman's league myself though if I was in those circumstances. I remember one some sporting event were they did DNA testing on a winner to make sure she was female, she was, some women have male characteristics so it is not impossible for it to happen without surgery.

How about Gabbi Garcia in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, participating in a sport that considers the "openweight division" the most prestigious division. She is not transgender. She could easily beat many male black belts. There is a fair argument that there will always be advantages and disadvantages between people of the same sex.

 

[8_bit_era]

I really feel like this will have to be one of those "wait and see" type of issues where there really needs to be long-term studies done so we can get some data behind it. I'm no geneticist or physiological expert so I can't comment with an opinion that would permit anyone to think of me as veracious in that opinoin. Pretentious wording: Top score!

 

[zippypinhead]

If women are willing to fight her, then let them fight her.

This reminds me of Parinya Charoenphol a bit. A pretty good movie was made about her, called Beautiful Boxer.

 

[KamikaziKitty]

Holy crap! Gabbi Garcia doesn't just have beast mode... She IS beast mode!

If they are hormonallyfemale, i say go for it.