Florida Passes Drug Testing Law....

[AlexLady]

Having more rehab places won't help. The type of people who pop out babies for money and intentionally don't work so they don't have to be drug tested aren't the type to turn themselves in or go to treatment.

Besides, I'd rather my money went to catching bad parents than feeding their kids who, especially when they need better homes anyways.


While their food stamps can't be spend directly on drugs, they --love-- to trade 100 food stamps for 50$ cash

 

[Lydia_Deetz]

The problem with trading foodstamps is that it is not paper currency. It is on a card (like a debit card with a pin number) and can not be easily traded. You would have to go to the grocery store with that person and spend the money for them and then get the cash from them.

I am not saying this still isn't possible but it makes it much harder to do.

 

[JickyJuly]

The problem with trading foodstamps is that it is not paper currency. It is on a card (like a debit card with a pin number) and can not be easily traded. You would have to go to the grocery store with that person and spend the money for them and then get the cash from them.

I am not saying this still isn't possible but it makes it much harder to do.

They run like debit cards. So, all they have to do is give the other person their pin. When my husband was in his junkie days, there were a few months where we lived in separate states. No one was controlling his ebt card, and he would sell it (usually followed by calls to me that he was hungry).

Sadly, the Government plan for more "rehab" would likely mean more Methadone clinics which make them a ton of money without doing too much good for anyone else.

 

[MadisonLeigh]

^ With the EBT cards, I don't understand why they don't have a better system in place to prevent the abuse of it. For instance, why can't you be required to show an ID when you use it, so you can't sell someone else your PIN? I can't say I know a lot about the EBT system so there may be a very good reason - maybe it's a privacy law or something, but it seems like that could at least cut down on fraudulent EBT use.

 

[AlexLady]

Also, why the fuck can people by soda with it? Soda isn't food. They should be limited to spending EBT on things like milk, fruits, and bread.

Overall the whole system needs to be redone. I do not want to pay for baby-popping-druggies with my taxes.

 

[schlmoe]

^ With the EBT cards, I don't understand why they don't have a better system in place to prevent the abuse of it. For instance, why can't you be required to show an ID when you use it, so you can't sell someone else your PIN? I can't say I know a lot about the EBT system so there may be a very good reason - maybe it's a privacy law or something, but it seems like that could at least cut down on fraudulent EBT use.

Trust me on this...the EBT is much less resistant to fraud then the old system (paper food coupons/stamps). It was USDA policy to return the difference of a whole dollar purchase in coins. I remember many a time a "recipient" purchasing a 5 cent piece of candy and taking the 95 cents to get a 40 oz. I could go on, but you get the point.

As far as asking for ID, it has always been in the regs that retailers could ask for ID at any time and refuse the sale if the "recipient" did not comply. My experience was that the stores did not want to lose the business by turning away a sale and possibly offending a legitimate recipient and causing them not to return.

If the "recipients" want to abuse the system, they will find a way. Whether the EBT moves to retina scan or delivering food to the house, the abusers will find a way to circumvent the system.

 

[schlmoe]

Also, why the fuck can people by soda with it? Soda isn't food. They should be limited to spending EBT on things like milk, fruits, and bread.

Overall the whole system needs to be redone. I do not want to pay for baby-popping-druggies with my taxes.

Candy, chips, and soda (except fountain drinks) have been on the acceptable list for years. I never understood that reasoning. On the other hand, a legitimate recipient could not purchase something they really needed...like baby aspirin. Go figure.

There used to be mandatory nutritional classes before you received your benefit. Things like buying and preparing "real" food vs. purchasing convenience foods (TV dinners, and the like). I don't know if this is still required.

 

[AlexLady]

There's EBT Cash and EBT Food, so they can get asprin and what-not.

Also, no, no one I know had to take any sort of class.

You can even withdrawl the cash bit with an ATM. :|



I have nothing against people who lost a job and need a bit of help while they look for the next one. It's just the people who abuse it which tick me off. I honestly only know one person who's been on it and used it for its main intention anyways.

 

[Keithy]

Snacks and soda are a bit of a tricky one. I mean if the person is healthy and soda is their treat, then maybe they deserve it. Fatties guzzling nothing but soda are again abusing the system, but why take it away from everyone because someone can't handle it? Throw a monthly BMI test in there to see if you're too fat for soda?

 

[dasEkonomist]

Since this "policy in question" has recently been signed into law in Florida and just went in to effect July 1...where is this long and sad history you speak of?

I mentioned Florida already tried it in Jacksonville and it failed.

This whole thing played out back in 2003 when Michigan shot it down as obscenely unconstitutional. By the time the Michigan law had been struck down, all 49 states had already considered the policy since the inception of welfare reform in 1996. Every single one, including Florida in the immediate aftermath of the Jacksonville failure, rejected such policies as unconstitutional, ineffective, or both.

People often look only as far as the price of the test, and don't bother including costs of administration, court challenges of the law itself, false positives, to say nothing of the remarkable ease with which urine tests can be circumvented, particularly by users of harder drugs that don't stay in the system very long. There are also the deadly and costly negative externalities associated with presenting a person whose brain has been rewired by drug addiction the choices of crime or slow death from starvation and/or withdrawal.

On top of that, according to the news story, "Applicants for the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program who test positive for illicit substances won't be eligible for the funds for a year, or until they undergo treatment." So, these unfortunates do have a choice. As far as I can tell, they won't be dumped into the streets unless they choose that course.

Drug addiction profoundly alters your brain chemistry, destroys your identity and relationships, and severely handicaps your ability to make what appears to people who are not locked in the violent throes of severe illness to be very simple and obvious choices. There are usually co-morbid mental illnesses in play as well. These are people who would sooner suck diseased cock for a $40 fix than go to rehab, even at no cost to themselves, even when tearfully begged by those who they love and trust the most. Their decision-making apparatus has obviously been destroyed by drugs. It is probable that they got into hard drugs because their decision-making apparatus had already been affected by various mental illnesses.

I don't know what the answers are. The remedies that have been tried in the past (Methadone, rehab, 12-step, incarceration/cold turkey) have had little or no success. As a taxpayer, I'm open to any suggestions. As a taxpayer, I'd rather see these folks get govt. assistance (with limits) vs. the alternative (incarceration), primarily due to the total cost (monetary and non-monetary) on society.

I strongly recommend looking into harm reduction.

I also know that doing nothing and maintaining the status quo is not a solution.

Doing nothing is a superior choice to mandatory drug testing, much in the same way doing nothing is a better choice for treating cancer than drinking bleach. I certainly did not mean doing nothing was the best solution, only that it is better than wasting money on mandatory drug testing for welfare folk. Alcohol and Tobacco are by HUGE margins the most prevalent of addictive drugs at all income levels and yet neither of these are worth a mention when it comes to dastardly sick poor people stealing your precious money.

Since I orbit in the periphery of the bourgeoisie, I wait for your solutions with abated breath. Heck, I'll even make you a gift by titling it for you "Ekonomist Manifesto".

Milton Friedman beat me to it 50ish years ago. It's actually titled "Capitalism and Freedom".

One last thought: it's very easy to sit and take potshots without adding anything constructive, and it might be helpful to remember the old saying "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

I don't have to put men on the moon to tell you building a friggin huge ladder to get there isn't going to work, and by persuading people that mandatory drug testing for welfare won't work in terms of their own desired outcomes I'm certainly part of the solution. Personally I am in favor of legalizing/taxing/funding harm reduction. Even this isn't what I'd consider 'good' in any meaningful way so much as it is the least bad course of action. Consensus among economists is broad.

 

[AlexLady]

I don't care if you're obese or not, you shouldn't buy junk with food stamps. If it's just a treat once in a while even the poor can splurge .50$ of their paycheck.

 

[LadyLuna]

I have been on food stamps off and on for the past however long. I *hate* the fact that soda and chips and junk can go on it. I would much rather have to pay for that with cash.

However, I love the fact that chocolates and dessert items *can* go on the food card, so who am I to judge?

I wish there was a class or video or something that came with it for "how to eat off $200 a month". Cause the government is under the impression that a single person can eat healthily off that. Then again, the government is also under the impression that making anything over $1100 a month means I have at least $200 to spend on food... forget the fact that I might need to make at least $1200 a month to qualify for the shittiest apartment in town...

/rant

 

[syncro86]

Rick Scott will kill Florida, and he, his buds, and wife will be laughing all the way to the bank. Worst republican move ever.

 

[FifthElephant]

To take this off at a wild tangent.

I wish there was a class or video or something that came with it for "how to eat off $200 a month". Cause the government is under the impression that a single person can eat healthily off that.

I'm currently managing about that - well - $100.

For breakfast, for example:
40g rolled oats, 4 dates, 100ml milk, microwaved for 2.5 minutes - delicious. $.20

I've got someone over, so I made up some chinesy stuff to eat for the next 3 days or so.
330g pork joint, diced up,
1kg onions diced and fried
2 cans peaches
50g ginger
50ml soy sauce
4 cloves garlic
lemon juice
2 large bell peppers
celeriac stem (from garden)
Bamboo shoots or beansprouts would have been good, but I diddn't have any in stock.

This came out at around $5, and is six generous portions.
With 100g of rice, for a total of $1/meal or so.
Also is delicious!

My top tips for 'eating healthily cheaply on a budget' would be:
* Get the largest freezer you can.
This both lets you store large amounts of ingredients, and lets you make large amounts of stew or meals such as the above, and then freeze.
* Learn your local marketplace - what's the best time to get discounts, are there regular discounts to draw people in, ...
* Completely ignore diet food, it's a LIE. It generally does not taste as nice, and is more expensive.
* Learn to cook - at least basically.

I'm lucky in that in the UK, I can get groceries delivered - I am currently running about a delivery a month.
This breaks down into $30 of fruit - largely banannas and whatever's on offer that will last a long time in the fridge.
And then the rest, which varies a lot, as I buy special offers to reduce my bills.
For example, last months was 10 packs of biscuits, as they are a brand I really like, with half off. I'll be eating these for at least 4 months, and 10Kg of chicken fillets that there was a pricing error on, so they were $16.
And wholemeal/brown/white flour to give me fresh sourdough bread every couple of days from the breadmaker.


In general, I recommend going round your local market, and finding out what's cheap. Now work out if it can be a reasonable part of your diet - and then consider if you can make it tasty. If you're not sure as you've never cooked it before, note it down, and then go and hit google for a bit to find a _simple_ recipe using it.

Buying 'what you always buy' is a surefire way to fail.
I used to be buying breakfast cereal that I liked, as it was easy.

However, I looked round, and found that rolled oats were _considerably_ cheaper, and looking round the dried fruit aisle, dates were cheapest. It so happens I like both of these, and now instead of cereal, which can get a bit meh - I have a nice hot breakfast with minimal effort.

This does take more effort, at least initially, especially as you're going to have to do the calorie counting yourself, not rely on pre-portioned diet foods.

 

[RainbowBryte]

Lets go ahead and clear up a misconception right now. Foodstamps/EBT and medicaid can not be "spent on drugs."

You can only buy food products with foodstamps, and receive medical care ( that is limited) on medicaid.

I know most people know this, but I felt it needed to be clarified for those who don't understand how it works. Obviously if you have "other" money for drugs you should not receive these benefits.

Obviously this does not include, disability/SSI, and TANF benefits which are given to those who do not receive their court ordered child support.

I've known people who sell their foodstamps. 100 dollars worth of food for 50 dollars, shit like that. So if they really need money for drugs they can sell the food stamps

 

[Lydia_Deetz]

Lets go ahead and clear up a misconception right now. Foodstamps/EBT and medicaid can not be "spent on drugs."

You can only buy food products with foodstamps, and receive medical care ( that is limited) on medicaid.

I know most people know this, but I felt it needed to be clarified for those who don't understand how it works. Obviously if you have "other" money for drugs you should not receive these benefits.

Obviously this does not include, disability/SSI, and TANF benefits which are given to those who do not receive their court ordered child support.

I've known people who sell their foodstamps. 100 dollars worth of food for 50 dollars, shit like that. So if they really need money for drugs they can sell the food stamps

I know people who can and have done that as well. I was just trying to help people who have no concept of how the program works.

There are people who have never had to ask for assistance who actually think the government goes around handing out money.

 

[LadyLuna]

To take this off at a wild tangent.

I wish there was a class or video or something that came with it for "how to eat off $200 a month". Cause the government is under the impression that a single person can eat healthily off that.

I'm currently managing about that - well - $100.

For breakfast, for example:
40g rolled oats, 4 dates, 100ml milk, microwaved for 2.5 minutes - delicious. $.20

I've got someone over, so I made up some chinesy stuff to eat for the next 3 days or so.
330g pork joint, diced up,
1kg onions diced and fried
2 cans peaches
50g ginger
50ml soy sauce
4 cloves garlic
lemon juice
2 large bell peppers
celeriac stem (from garden)
Bamboo shoots or beansprouts would have been good, but I diddn't have any in stock.

This came out at around $5, and is six generous portions.
With 100g of rice, for a total of $1/meal or so.
Also is delicious!

My top tips for 'eating healthily cheaply on a budget' would be:
* Get the largest freezer you can.
This both lets you store large amounts of ingredients, and lets you make large amounts of stew or meals such as the above, and then freeze.
* Learn your local marketplace - what's the best time to get discounts, are there regular discounts to draw people in, ...
* Completely ignore diet food, it's a LIE. It generally does not taste as nice, and is more expensive.
* Learn to cook - at least basically.

I'm lucky in that in the UK, I can get groceries delivered - I am currently running about a delivery a month.
This breaks down into $30 of fruit - largely banannas and whatever's on offer that will last a long time in the fridge.
And then the rest, which varies a lot, as I buy special offers to reduce my bills.
For example, last months was 10 packs of biscuits, as they are a brand I really like, with half off. I'll be eating these for at least 4 months, and 10Kg of chicken fillets that there was a pricing error on, so they were $16.
And wholemeal/brown/white flour to give me fresh sourdough bread every couple of days from the breadmaker.


In general, I recommend going round your local market, and finding out what's cheap. Now work out if it can be a reasonable part of your diet - and then consider if you can make it tasty. If you're not sure as you've never cooked it before, note it down, and then go and hit google for a bit to find a _simple_ recipe using it.

Buying 'what you always buy' is a surefire way to fail.
I used to be buying breakfast cereal that I liked, as it was easy.

However, I looked round, and found that rolled oats were _considerably_ cheaper, and looking round the dried fruit aisle, dates were cheapest. It so happens I like both of these, and now instead of cereal, which can get a bit meh - I have a nice hot breakfast with minimal effort.

This does take more effort, at least initially, especially as you're going to have to do the calorie counting yourself, not rely on pre-portioned diet foods.

Thank you for the suggestions.

In the US, most people on food stamps are in apartments and can't afford a large freezer. I mean, the freezer would cost like $300, plus the electricity would shoot through the roof, so it would cost as much as it would save.

I don't care about calories. And I don't do diet foods. I didn't say "diet". I said "eat healthy". If it has the word "light" or "sugar free" in teh label, I avoid it (unless it's ridiculous, like when crackers were advertising "no cholesterol".) because I know that most of what I'd be paying for is the marketing of having that on the label.

In the US, it's practically impossible to get fruits and vegetables cheap in the city. And it's practically impossible to get good internet outside the city. And meat... dear god is meat expensive. Eggs are fairly cheap, but I can't stomach eggs first thing in the morning. Wheat bread is more expensive than white. Carrots are more expensive than cookies. If I only had more cupboard space, I could eat fairly cheaply, but sadly, I have to do with whatever the apartment has. which means I can't keep more than a week of food at a time. Shit, I have to keep the ramen under the sink cause there's nowhere else to put it- I *hate* keeping food under the sink!