Elementary School Shooting In Connecticut

[Nordling]

I don't really think this thread needs to be about where the country (or we as individuals) should stand on gun control. That deserves it's own thread, far away from this one about children.

I certainly understand what you are saying, and even share your feelings. But over the years I've seen dozens of threads about gun control--and none of them went anywhere. You cannot separate gun control, as a discussion, from the victims of gun violence and expect any change to ever happen. The Brady Bill was a direct result of Brady being shot and discussions about him and his personal tragedy.

Like you, I wish it could be otherwise, but to change how we as a society looks at things, we have to include the results of those things we wish to protect.

 

[DoctorVen]

Instead of the gun issue, let's make mental healthcare free. That way things like this can be prevented. I called my nieces/nephews today to tell them I love them. I can't fathom something like this happening to them.

And on the news when they were talking about the parents that were still waiting for their children to come out .... I lost it.

 

[Nordling]

First really stupid statement I've heard so far: Mike Huckabee says it's because "we removed God from our schools."

You fucking, pretentious, moronic fuckwit...the killer CAME TO the school and murdered innocent CHILDREN... religious practice WITHIN the school had nothing to do with anything!

 

[AllisonWilder]

First really stupid statement I've heard so far: Mike Huckabee says it's because "we removed God from our schools."

You fucking, pretentious, moronic fuckwit...the killer CAME TO the school and murdered innocent CHILDREN... religious practice WITHIN the school had nothing to do with anything!

My dad (who's not really a religious man) said something almost identical to me about it today. I couldn't even continue the conversation... :snooty:

 

[Jupiter551]

I don't really think this thread needs to be about where the country (or we as individuals) should stand on gun control. That deserves it's own thread, far away from this one about children.

I get where you're coming from with this, but every time one of these mass shootings occur, (and how many has it been this year in schools, malls, theatres?) people are quick to point out that 'now isn't the time to talk about gun control'. If 26 innocent people being shot dead by a guy with a legally purchased gun ISN'T the time to seriously discuss gun control - when the hell is? The children are the point of discussing gun control. Those poor children have been sacrificed in the name of "personal freedom".

When something like this happens it is EXACTLY the time to talk about gun control, because your country with less than 5% of the world's population commits more than twice the gun massacres of the other 95% of the world's population COMBINED.

 

[AllisonWilder]

I don't really think this thread needs to be about where the country (or we as individuals) should stand on gun control. That deserves it's own thread, far away from this one about children.

I get where you're coming from with this, but every time one of these mass shootings occur, (and how many has it been this year in schools, malls, theatres?) people are quick to point out that 'now isn't the time to talk about gun control'. If 26 innocent people being shot dead by a guy with a legally purchased gun ISN'T the time to seriously discuss gun control - when the hell is? The children are the point of discussing gun control. Those poor children have been sacrificed in the name of "personal freedom".

When something like this happens it is EXACTLY the time to talk about gun control, because your country with less than 5% of the world's population commits more than twice the gun massacres of the other 95% of the world's population COMBINED.

I wasn't saying that I don't think that now is the time to talk about gun control. I was just saying that I thought it deserved it's own thread.

 

[Jupiter551]

I wasn't saying that I don't think that now is the time to talk about gun control. I was just saying that I thought it deserved it's own thread.

Fair enough, I'm just used to hearing stuff like "now isn't the time for a debate on gun control, now is the time for mourning" every single time something like this happens. I apologise for misconstruing what you wrote.

 

[Bocefish]

Those poor children have been sacrificed in the name of "personal freedom".

That's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard all year. Saying those innocent little children were massacred in the name of personal freedom is fucking pathetic. :angry4:

 

[Jupiter551]

Those poor children have been sacrificed in the name of "personal freedom".

That's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard all year. Saying those innocent little children were massacred in the name of personal freedom is fucking pathetic. :angry4:

Really? Because if this guy hadn't been able to walk into a store, buy a gun, and have it available and ready at the moment he snapped those kids would have still died?
Watch the pro-gun lobby go into overdrive to ensure no one thinks too hard about whether or not legal semi-auto handgun ownership enabled this, then tell me they give a fuck about the victims of this and every other massacre in your country.

 

[DoctorVen]

First really stupid statement I've heard so far: Mike Huckabee says it's because "we removed God from our schools."

You fucking, pretentious, moronic fuckwit...the killer CAME TO the school and murdered innocent CHILDREN... religious practice WITHIN the school had nothing to do with anything!

And Pat Robertson will probably blame it on the gays and their gay marriage wins.

 

[Red7227]

I don't really think this thread needs to be about where the country (or we as individuals) should stand on gun control. That deserves it's own thread, far away from this one about children.

Why not? its clearly stupid fucks with guns that do all these things. The worst thing we in Australia need to worry about is the kids getting bullied on social media or at school, not being murdered by some lunatic who thinks its his "right" to have an assault rifle.

 

[Sevrin]

The worst thing we in Australia need to worry about is the kids getting bullied on social media or at school, not being murdered by some lunatic who thinks its his "right" to have an assault rifle.

Is that so? You must not be from Port Arthur.

Celebrity culture is as much to blame as gun culture for this. It's not even a recent phenomenon; attention whores have always been with us. If it wasn't guns, it would be arson, poison, or something else.

We will never live in a world where this type of thing can't happen. We can just be grateful that we are still capable of being shocked by this.

 

[Bocefish]

Those poor children have been sacrificed in the name of "personal freedom".

That's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard all year. Saying those innocent little children were massacred in the name of personal freedom is fucking pathetic. :angry4:

Really? Because if this guy hadn't been able to walk into a store, buy a gun, and have it available and ready at the moment he snapped those kids would have still died?
Watch the pro-gun lobby go into overdrive to ensure no one thinks too hard about whether or not legal semi-auto handgun ownership enabled this, then tell me they give a fuck about the victims of this and every other massacre in your country.

Yes, really! NEWSFLASH! The gun didn't wake up this morning, shoot the kid's mother then drive over to the school to massacre innocent children, the sociopath did. You can't legislate mental health or predict who will snap if there have been no previous signs of it. Who in their right mind even contemplates doing such a grisly thing?

Supposedly, the mother is the one who purchased the weapons, not the 20 year old. If anyone would have known his violent anti-social tendencies, you'd think she would and have them secured.

A similar instance happened a few years and and guess how it was stopped?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Hig ... l_shooting

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend ... _study.htm

One CNN commentator today was stressing the fact that we as a society must be aware of and learn to recognize signs of mental illness and violent anti-social behavior as the key to stopping this kind of thing before it happens. He never even mentioned tighter gun control. Making something illegal or making tighter gun control laws will not stop sociopaths intent on doing evil.

There definitely has to be some mental health adjustments. One psychologist interviewed today said he sent a patient to the emergency room because the guy threatened killing someone and the emergency room called him back saying the patient isn't saying anything of the sort. The psychologist said of course he's not saying that now because he doesn't want to be held against his will. The hospital said the guy's insurance didn't cover keeping him and released him back into society before the shrink could get there and sign him in.

Blaming guns for what happened today is akin to blaming violent video games that make people feel nothing about killing everyone in sight... electronic alter egos with zero capacity to connect with with real people as anything other than hindering objects.

The media needs to stop glorifying these cowards too! :evil:

 

[Bocefish]

Those poor children have been sacrificed in the name of "personal freedom".

That's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard all year. Saying those innocent little children were massacred in the name of personal freedom is fucking pathetic. :angry4:

Really? Because if this guy hadn't been able to walk into a store, buy a gun, and have it available and ready at the moment he snapped those kids would have still died?
Watch the pro-gun lobby go into overdrive to ensure no one thinks too hard about whether or not legal semi-auto handgun ownership enabled this, then tell me they give a fuck about the victims of this and every other massacre in your country.

Yes, really! NEWSFLASH! The gun didn't wake up this morning, shoot the kid's mother then drive over to the school to massacre innocent children, the sociopath did. You can't legislate mental health or predict who will snap if there have been no previous signs of it. Who in their right mind even contemplates doing such a grisly thing?

Supposedly, the mother is the one who purchased the weapons, not the 20 year old. If anyone would have known his violent anti-social tendencies, you'd think she would and have them secured.

A similar instance happened a few years and and guess how it was stopped?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Hig ... l_shooting

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend ... _study.htm

One CNN commentator today was stressing the fact that we as a society must be aware of and learn to recognize signs of mental illness and violent anti-social behavior as the key to stopping this kind of thing before it happens. He never even mentioned tighter gun control. Making something illegal or making tighter gun control laws will not stop sociopaths intent on doing evil.

There definitely has to be some mental health adjustments. One psychologist interviewed today said he sent a patient to the emergency room because the guy threatened killing someone and the emergency room called him back saying the patient isn't saying anything of the sort. The psychologist said of course he's not saying that now because he doesn't want to be held against his will. The hospital said the guy's insurance didn't cover keeping him and released him back into society before the shrink could get there and sign him in.

Blaming guns for what happened today is akin to blaming violent video games that make people feel nothing about killing everyone in sight... electronic alter egos with zero capacity to connect with with real people as anything other than hindering objects.

The media needs to stop glorifying these cowards too! :evil:

 

[Shaun__]

The worst thing we in Australia need to worry about is the kids getting bullied on social media or at school, not being murdered by some lunatic who thinks its his "right" to have an assault rifle.

Is that so? You must not be from Port Arthur.

Celebrity culture is as much to blame as gun culture for this. It's not even a recent phenomenon; attention whores have always been with us. If it wasn't guns, it would be arson, poison, or something else.

We will never live in a world where this type of thing can't happen. We can just be grateful that we are still capable of being shocked by this.

It looks like that event helped to motivate tighter gun control laws.

Port Arthur massacre remains one of the deadliest shootings worldwide committed by a single person.[5] Gun control laws in Australia, which had been relatively lenient before the massacre, were reviewed and tightened significantly after the incident.

 

[Red7227]

The worst thing we in Australia need to worry about is the kids getting bullied on social media or at school, not being murdered by some lunatic who thinks its his "right" to have an assault rifle.

Is that so? You must not be from Port Arthur.

Celebrity culture is as much to blame as gun culture for this. It's not even a recent phenomenon; attention whores have always been with us. If it wasn't guns, it would be arson, poison, or something else.

We will never live in a world where this type of thing can't happen. We can just be grateful that we are still capable of being shocked by this.

And that was 22 years ago. Since then there have been how many in Australia? How many have there been in the US in the last 22 years?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ed-states/

 

[Nordling]

Yup.

 

[Jupiter551]

Those poor children have been sacrificed in the name of "personal freedom".

That's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard all year. Saying those innocent little children were massacred in the name of personal freedom is fucking pathetic. :angry4:

Really? Because if this guy hadn't been able to walk into a store, buy a gun, and have it available and ready at the moment he snapped those kids would have still died?
Watch the pro-gun lobby go into overdrive to ensure no one thinks too hard about whether or not legal semi-auto handgun ownership enabled this, then tell me they give a fuck about the victims of this and every other massacre in your country.

Yes, really! NEWSFLASH! The gun didn't wake up this morning, shoot the kid's mother then drive over to the school to massacre innocent children, the sociopath did. You can't legislate mental health or predict who will snap if there have been no previous signs of it. Who in their right mind even contemplates doing such a grisly thing?

Supposedly, the mother is the one who purchased the weapons, not the 20 year old. If anyone would have known his violent anti-social tendencies, you'd think she would and have them secured.

A similar instance happened a few years and and guess how it was stopped?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Hig ... l_shooting

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend ... _study.htm

One CNN commentator today was stressing the fact that we as a society must be aware of and learn to recognize signs of mental illness and violent anti-social behavior as the key to stopping this kind of thing before it happens. He never even mentioned tighter gun control. Making something illegal or making tighter gun control laws will not stop sociopaths intent on doing evil.

There definitely has to be some mental health adjustments. One psychologist interviewed today said he sent a patient to the emergency room because the guy threatened killing someone and the emergency room called him back saying the patient isn't saying anything of the sort. The psychologist said of course he's not saying that now because he doesn't want to be held against his will. The hospital said the guy's insurance didn't cover keeping him and released him back into society before the shrink could get there and sign him in.

Blaming guns for what happened today is akin to blaming violent video games that make people feel nothing about killing everyone in sight... electronic alter egos with zero capacity to connect with with real people as anything other than hindering objects.

The media needs to stop glorifying these cowards too! :evil:

Saying the gun itself didn't do it is beside the point, the presence of the gun enabled it to happen - enables it to happen over and over. Mental health assessment obviously needs an overhaul but pointing fingers at who fucked up is just dodging the overarching fact: without access to a weapon capable of murdering 20 something people, it COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

 

[Elysia36]

If these mass shooters feel as though they have it so bad,then they need to kill themselves and leave the innocent alone.I guess that wouldn't a big enough statement though.

 

[Bocefish]

Saying the gun itself didn't do it is beside the point, the presence of the gun enabled it to happen - enables it to happen over and over. Mental health assessment obviously needs an overhaul but pointing fingers at who fucked up is just dodging the overarching fact: without access to a weapon capable of murdering 20 something people, it COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

The gun didn't do it is exactly the the frickin' point. The shooter's brother said the kid had a history of mental illness. The guns were registered under the deceased mother's name which were bought 100% legally. I guess we should legislate that mothers can't purchase or own guns now?

 

[Nordling]

Doesn't matter now does it...whether it was his mother, neighbor or his dog Fido. The point is that he was able to acquire dangerous arms... If they weren't available that easily in the first place, this would not have happened.

 

[Anonymous]

As someone who lives in CA, which has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, and who owns firearms, I hate to say it, but strict legislation helps prevent these sorts of things a lot. There hasn't been a shooting like this in CA in over 20 years. I don't think all guns are bad or should be banned and I don't think knee jerk legislation is a good thing either. Some of CA's gun laws are totally stupid and make 0 sense. They base some of the restrictions on what certain guns look like and not what they can do for chrissakes.

This situation is sad and fucked up. There are no easy answers. If anyone thinks there are simple solutions, then you're just fooling yourself and reacting with your emotions.

 

[Anonymous]

Doesn't matter now does it...whether it was his mother, neighbor or his dog Fido. The point is that he was able to acquire dangerous arms... If they weren't available that easily in the first place, this would not have happened.

Sure it matters. If the shooter's mother had been a responsible gun owner and kept her firearms away from her crazy kid this would never have happened. She has quite a bit of culpability in this. Placing 100% of the blame on an inanimate object is just being naive.

 

[Airwolfe]

In other news 311,591,916 Americans didn't go into a school today and kill 20 children and 6 adults.

Also the "News Media" is not about news anymore. It's infotainment now. Damn near everything they been reporting about this story so far today has been incorrect. They verify nothing anymore. Just a bunch of talking heads with their lips flapping in between commercial breaks. Really nothing more than over glorified bloggers.

 

[SoTxBob]

You all seem to have left out one small detail... no matter the country or the control, if the person has the cash, he/she will always be able to find whatever he/she is shopping for. That includes everything from tiny .22 caliber midnight special pistols to machine guns and grenades. The thing about 'mental health' is that it can change at a moments notice with untold numbers of triggers.....
:dontknow:

 

[Nordling]

Doesn't matter now does it...whether it was his mother, neighbor or his dog Fido. The point is that he was able to acquire dangerous arms... If they weren't available that easily in the first place, this would not have happened.

Sure it matters. If the shooter's mother had been a responsible gun owner and kept her firearms away from her crazy kid this would never have happened. She has quite a bit of culpability in this. Placing 100% of the blame on an inanimate object is just being naive.

Agree, but I meant it didn't matter that it was his mother, specifically.

And yes, a non-sentient piece of medal deserves no blame... It's like hating a hurricane...which is silly. It's a force of nature. But as you said before, restricting availability (including, somehow, ensuring folks properly lock up their weapons) would be part of a solution. Mental health, studies, security at schools-malls--or any place where people congregate are also parts of the solution. The idea is not to eliminate gun violence, which is impossible, but to attack it from many angles--including figuring out why our society seems to be obsessed with violence.

 

[Nordling]

You all seem to have left out one small detail... no matter the country or the control, if the person has the cash, he/she will always be able to find whatever he/she is shopping for. That includes everything from tiny .22 caliber midnight special pistols to machine guns and grenades. The thing about 'mental health' is that it can change at a moments notice with untold numbers of triggers.....
:dontknow:

Also true, and I agree. But why is our country in particular so much more violent statistically than other first world countries? If we can figure that out, we may be able to reduce violence. Not an easy task, but yeah, that's the long-term answer. In the mean time, I'm in favor of any measures, within reason, that reduce violence. My right to own an assault rifle is not worth the possibility of one child to lose his or her life.

 

[TheDaniMerie]

After today's tragedy, my heart goes out to all those affected. It has been a long time since something in the news has actually made me cry tears...and I was on cam at the time. In a world with war and famine where too many innocents die, we just have to have people who just plumb crazy and psychotic as well. Gun may cause damage, but there are many out there that need to remember that it takes a human to put the trigger. I am a firm believer in tighter gun laws...but not gun elimination. I think that anyone applying for a gun license definitely should go through a psychiatric check as well as background check. Unfortunately, that doesn't help in the case of the black market. It's pretty sad that eventually no one will be able to own a gun and then where will we be? It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. The crazies are going to be the cause of our right to protect ourselves being taken away and then we don't have a way to protect ourselves from the crazies because they can still access the guns!

 

[Airwolfe]

My right to own an assault rifle is not worth the possibility of one child to lose his or her life.

Everyone that was murdered today by a crazy evil bastard was killed with a handgun.

 

[SoTxBob]

why is our country in particular so much more violent statistically than other first world countries?

Thats a thesis in and of itself....

but a few quick :twocents-02cents: thumbnail guesses...
~parenting is broken.
~self indulgence.
~'kids' have to much freedom and the consequences are really not feared by them.
~personal responsibility and common sense is lacking.

added too many adults/kids arent dealt with and medicated instead to modify some behavior.