Creators, Piracy, and the Internet.. Oooooh my...

[Moros1138]

Hello Everybody,

I'm seeing my twitter feed, lately, full of people who are threatening to stop producing content because they have found their work is being pirated. While that's their right and I would never presume to say what people can or can't do with their own works. I do have a little rant of my own on the subject.

BEGIN RANT
This is a general PSA to cam models, but the gist of this could be applied to any artist or content creator.

I find it funny when I see content creators react badly to piracy. This is the 21st century. Digital piracy has been a thing since the dawn of the internet and it is border-line common knowledge that porn is, one of, the biggest industries that get pirated. If you don't like piracy (I imagine this is most creators reading this) you find yourself with a couple choices. You can stop producing your content or you can take the appropriate legal steps to protect your content. Bear in mind, regardless of your choice, anything you've produced thus far WILL be pirated by somebody, somewhere and the same is true if you take the legal steps to protect your work.

Stopping certainly prevents pirates from stealing your new content. I mean, they can't steal what's never made, right? It also means people can't buy it either effectively zeroing your bottom line.

Protecting your work can be costly and it may slow down piracy, but it won't STOP piracy!


My advice is to adjust your comfort level with the subject of piracy because it has been around long before you came into the industry and it will be here long after you've quit and NOTHING short of a world-wide E.M.P.(Electromagnetic Pulse) will stop it from happening!

Pick the fights you can win. Weigh your options and make an educated decision!

END RANT

-Moros

 

[AerynShade]

...Or content producers post things like that because they are angry and upset that people are pirating their hard work. So they vent their frustrations and say things while riled up that they don't intend to follow through on.
I've stopped producing content in certain categories that are highly pirated. Or I'll watermark the shit out of certain clips so they can't remove my name when they upload it.

Stop pirating our work, fuckmushrooms!

 

[Gen]

I am not one to care about piracy, and I torrent various kinds of media, but I don't blame content producers for being mad. There's a different between "accept this" and "enjoy this". You can accept that it's inherent and still be mad about it.

 

[MFCGod]

You've posted this on a forum where girls make very personal content

Generally on the topic of piracy, I have little sympathy for big Hollywood movie studios or Porn companies; the vast majority of people who pirate would never have paid anyway

That doesn't mean that pirating is right or saying "you probably haven't lost any money?" would be any comfort to a model on here who finds out shes having her videos stolen, because again, it's very personal.

 

[Moros1138]

...Or content producers post things like that because they are angry and upset that people are pirating their hard work. So they vent their frustrations and say things while riled up that they don't intend to follow through on.

Let's say, for the purposes of this thread, that they were geniune. Do you think I gave bad, or incorrect, information?

I am not one to care about piracy, and I torrent various kinds of media, but I don't blame content producers for being mad. There's a different between "accept this" and "enjoy this". You can accept that it's inherent and still be mad about it.

Totally.

 

[Moros1138]

Generally on the topic of piracy, I have little sympathy for big Hollywood movie studios or Porn companies; the vast majority of people who pirate would never have paid anyway

This generalization and justification of theft is exactly why piracy will never go away and why content creators need to take steps to safeguard their content!

 

[AerynShade]

Let's say, for the purposes of this thread, that they were geniune. Do you think I gave bad, or incorrect, information?

Yes, I do. Or, more accurately, I don't think you actually provided any information, just opinion.

You're assuming that models who do cease to produce content aren't making informed decisions. At one point, based on numerous factors they decided to produce content. Then, after circumstances changed they decided to stop producing content. Or to change how they do so. They thought through their decisions. Just because you don't agree with their choices does not mean it wasn't an educated decision.
You're telling people to change how they feel about something very personal, which is just absurd. Your tone came off very patronizing, saying you find it funny when we get upset. And made it sound like you're telling us we need to just get comfortable with piracy and not be angry about it. You mention protecting our work, but don't actually give any information about the methods you'd suggest in doing so.

 

[MFCGod]

This generalization and justification of theft is exactly why piracy will never go away and why content creators need to take steps to safeguard their content!

There's levels to everything, lets not act like theft is a blanket awful thing

If I stole candy from a big retail store it's not quite the same as taking it from a child because a Walmart has no personal attachment to that candy bar and no real financial value in the big scheme of things, they can afford to take a 50c hit on billions

A model however has a personal attachment to their videos and it's important to them financially

Yes you have to expect piracy but it doesn't mean you have to like it and saying stuff like

I find it funny when I see content creators react badly to piracy

Is a bit insensitive given the forum and the whole post a bit misguided imo

 

[Moros1138]

Your tone came off very patronizing, saying you find it funny when we get upset. And made it sound like you're telling us we need to just get comfortable with piracy and not be angry about it.

Poor choice of wording on my part. In this context I am using funny meaning strange or odd.

I didn't mean for it to come off patronizing. I wanted people to see it and for it to maybe open their eyes. I don't mean that creators shouldn't be angry about it. I meant that they should be aware of it and direct their anger in a way that would help them better than a one-off on twitter.

You mention protecting our work, but don't actually give any information about the methods you'd suggest in doing so.

I should have said this in the post, but it's too late to edit it.

Beyond watermarking, there are services that specialize in removing pirated content from websites and from search results which can help slow down piracy. I hesitate to mention any services by name because I don't want to come off like I'm endorsing their product.

Finally, I'd like to apologize for the tone of the post. It wasn't my intention to come off that way.

 

[paige_orion]

I am not sure of your intentions behind this post, because Aeryn is right - I didn't find any useful information in it. It was basically you not understanding why models are upset, telling them to shut up and accept that piracy exists or do something about it. As if it were that easy. As if girls don't pay hundreds of dollars to DMCA companies every month to search for their videos, even though many sites will simply just ignore it and not remove those videos. As if we don't already spend hours every month or week searching content and letting other girls know their work has been stolen. Girls don't have the money to sue every pirate for copyright infringement. No one does. But we do the best that we can with the resources we have. And we are allowed to do two things at once - be angry and rant about pirates AND do something about it.

If a girl was mugged and had her wallet stolen from her, would you tell her that it was funny that she is mad at being robbed? Just because an action is prevalent - it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it. It doesn't mean we need to shut up and accept it when people wrong us. There is no one answer that will solve piracy - though going directly to the source and telling fans how much it hurts us can help spread awareness.

One of my intense hypnosis videos with effects can take ten hours to create, from start to finish. I pour my heart and soul into my clips to try to make a product that people will enjoy. I sometimes do intense videos like this because I love them, because I can be creative, because I enjoy making something beautiful. Having one person buy this video and upload it to a site where a thousand people will watch it... That's several thousand dollars I don't get to see for my work. And worse than that... It's seeing the entitlement of fans who don't feel I deserve to be paid for the work that goes into creating something like that. It hurts. It can be heart-breaking. Why would someone continue to create clips that will be stolen and stolen and stolen? Eventually, enough is enough. And walking away from clip categories that consistently pirate from you can be the best option. Because it just isn't worth the amount of time and work and energy that goes into it, knowing that you're most likely going to be robbed.

I guess the thing about this post is the assumption that we ladies aren't trying to deal with this rampant problem with the resources we have. Believe me - we know about DMCA companies and several of us can afford to use them. But not everyone can. I don't think it's fair to tell models to just accept it, to not be angry about it, when we put so much love and heart into their work.... Just because we are upset, it doesn't mean we aren't doing what we can to combat the problem.

I wish more people got angry and rant about the piracy itself, not the models' very justifiable reaction of getting angry at being stolen from.

 

[Moros1138]

I agree with most of what @paige_orion just said except for a few key things.

It was basically you not understanding why models are upset, telling them to shut up and accept that piracy exists or do something about it.

On the contrary, I know very well why creators are upset about piracy. Also, I never once said, or even implied, that creators should shut up.

With the high number of rants I've seen just in the last 4 hours regarding piracy. I thought maybe it was an awareness issue. My intention was to be helpful. I botched the tone. It was my mistake. I admit it and I apologize for it.

If a girl was mugged and had her wallet stolen from her, would you tell her that it was funny that she is mad at being robbed?

Absolutely NOT. That'd be absurd! I don't like that you imply that I am justifying theft of any kind. I am not.

 

[Magnolia]

I'm just going to lay this out simply for anyone who reads this thread:

1. Piracy is a huge issue and it WILL affect your sales if not taken care of.
2. Expect everything you do to be pirated/archived on the internet forever.
3. If you're a camgirl there are many helpful resources on DMCA takedowns and ways to prevent stolen content in the model's only.
4. It is possible to use piracy to your advantage, though not something you should try to do if you don't know what you're doing.
5. Most DMCA takedown companies are fucking garbage looking to rip you off and can't get all your vids taken down, I learned this the hard way. Most camsites and clipsites will DMCA for you if you ask them to. I know MFC and MV do and they do a damn good job of it FOR FREE.
6. If you're going to do it yourself know that a LOT of websites will release your personal information and they are legally allowed to do so. There are ways to get around this and keep yourself safe. Again: Model's Only.
7. It's okay to get pissed and publicly display your displeasure for piracy. Or not. It's your business and your image to do with as your wish.
8. You're never going to get everything removed, plan for that.

 

[paige_orion]

I agree with ost of what @paige_orion just said except for a few key things.

On the contrary, I know very well why creators are upset about piracy. Also, I never once said, or even implied, that creators should shut up.

With the high number of rants I've seen just in the last 4 hours regarding piracy. I thought maybe it was an awareness issue. My intention was to be helpful. I botched the tone. It was my mistake. I admit it and I apologize for it.

Absolutely NOT. That'd be absurd! I don't like that you imply that I am justifying theft of any kind. I am not.

I appreciate your apology and that you do have good intentions, and you are right - you never stated that you wish we would shut up. But I know that I (and many other girls) read your post that way, simply because your rant was prompted by girls being angry about piracy, and a majority of your post was saying that we need to accept that it exists, and pick our battles. I think the fact that you titled your response a Rant implies that you were angry and frustrated at ladies being upset at their work being stolen, and that it was strange that they were reacting badly to the piracy that prompted it. I apologize for reading more into your post than you actually said!

Instead of a rant about how piracy is common and we need to accept it, a better way to approach it could be a discussion on many valuable ways that we can combat piracy to the best of our abilities. Personally, I don't use a special DMCA service - though each of my clip sites offer a DMCA service that we can use to let them know about things being uploaded. They aren't as quick as special DMCA services, but I have had a lot of my stolen clips removed through them. I also rely a lot on my coworkers. We comb through tube sites often enough, and I inform other ladies when I come across a pirated clip, just as many have done for me. Having many eyes is much easier than just one pair! Also, at the very least, I do watermark my videos with a Twitter handle and links to all of my sites. So even if it takes me a while to get the video taken down, at least I can leave breadcrumbs in case someone wants to actually buy clips. This way, also, no one can use my videos to catfish anyone.

Also, to any new ladies: Reminder not to fill out DMCA notices with your own personal information! Go through another service or through a clip site if possible, because the offending parties will get a copy of the DMCA notice - which could be disastrous if you fill it out yourself with your legal name, address, etc.

 

[Lintilla]

On the contrary, I know very well why creators are upset about piracy. Also, I never once said, or even implied, that creators should shut up.

You said the following:

I'm seeing my twitter feed, lately, full of people who are threatening to stop producing content because they have found their work is being pirated.

[...]

I find it funny when I see content creators react badly to piracy.

[...]

My advice is to adjust your comfort level with the subject of piracy

Which seems to me to say, in other words: I see many models complaining about this thing. I find that strange. Instead they should do this other thing instead.

That other thing being... adjust their comfort level. And the further assumption there is that if they were comfy with it they wouldn't need to complain, would they?

So, you did not overtly tell anyone to shut up, but that really is the message that came across.

 

[Moros1138]

I apologize for reading more into your post than you actually said!

I accept your apology! Yeah, I botched the tone entirely... I wish I could go back and make changes to it. #fail

We comb through tube sites often enough, and I inform other ladies when I come across a pirated clip

I do this constantly! I have a short list of girls I make a point to search for, just so I can mail them the links!

So even if it takes me a while to get the video taken down, at least I can leave breadcrumbs in case someone wants to actually buy clips.

EXACTLY! The importance of a good watermarking strategy can not, in my opinion, be under stated!

 

[Moros1138]

I'm just going to lay this out simply for anyone who reads this thread:

1. Piracy is a huge issue and it WILL affect your sales if not taken care of.
2. Expect everything you do to be pirated/archived on the internet forever.
3. If you're a camgirl there are many helpful resources on DMCA takedowns and ways to prevent stolen content in the model's only.
4. It is possible to use piracy to your advantage, though not something you should try to do if you don't know what you're doing.
5. Most DMCA takedown companies are fucking garbage looking to rip you off and can't get all your vids taken down, I learned this the hard way. Most camsites and clipsites will DMCA for you if you ask them to. I know MFC and MV do and they do a damn good job of it FOR FREE.
6. If you're going to do it yourself know that a LOT of websites will release your personal information and they are legally allowed to do so. There are ways to get around this and keep yourself safe. Again: Model's Only.
7. It's okay to get pissed and publicly display your displeasure for piracy. Or not. It's your business and your image to do with as your wish.
8. You're never going to get everything removed, plan for that.

Thanks for dropping that here, super helpful!

 

[Magnolia]

Thanks for dropping that here, super helpful!

 

[AmberCutie]

Also, to any new ladies: Reminder not to fill out DMCA notices with your own personal information! Go through another service or through a clip site if possible, because the offending parties will get a copy of the DMCA notice - which could be disastrous if you fill it out yourself with your legal name, address, etc.

Very important reminder, this should be posted in any and every thread about piracy/DMCA subjects!

 

[Picnic]

I don't think it's funny, strange, or odd that anyone would be upset about their work being pirated or stolen. I think people can very much be aware of the issue - even expect it to happen - and still be justified in not being happy with that outcome.

Hell, a good old fashioned twitter rant about these topics are needed every once in a while. Obviously it won't stop all piracy, but it can at least open member's eyes about why we do things the way we do, or the reality/consequences of it.

Not to mention - there are plenty of people who LITERALLY DONT UNDERSTAND that most of their favorite porn on tube sites is stolen porn. I mean, someone has to tell them.

Hell, if I can even educate one person who watches cams/consumes porn, I would consider the effort worthwhile.

I think it's wise to be prepared for piracy, and it's extremely helpful to share tips on the best ways to work with, or combat piracy. I do not think that it's fair to tell models/artists how they should feel, or how they should react to their work being pirated.

 

[Sevrin]

What I find funny is that someone would feel a need to make a thread here explaining to content creators that content piracy is something they need to find a way to deal with, both in practical ways and emotionally. Brainfarts like this are what Twitter is for.

 

[Moros1138]

Not to mention - there are plenty of people who LITERALLY DONT UNDERSTAND that most of their favorite porn on tube sites is stolen porn. I mean, someone has to tell them.

I can't agree more. I think promoting awareness in both consumers and creators communities will help a bit.

I do not think that it's fair to tell models/artists how they should feel, or how they should react to their work being pirated.

You're absolutely right and I didn't mean for it to come off that way. I had meant that no matter which route creators take, quitting, or taking the legal steps they were going to have to combat piracy in one form or another regardless. My wording I chose was poor, at best. I'm sorry.

 

[Moros1138]

What I find funny is that someone would feel a need to make a thread here explaining to content creators that content piracy is something they need to find a way to deal with, both in practical ways and emotionally.

Thanks for your opinion! I'm afraid we do not agree. I believe promoting awareness of the subject of piracy will help some models, especially models who may be new to the industry, to avoid certain pitfalls and help minimize their risks.

 

[mynameisbob84]

One of my intense hypnosis videos with effects can take ten hours to create, from start to finish. I pour my heart and soul into my clips to try to make a product that people will enjoy. I sometimes do intense videos like this because I love them, because I can be creative, because I enjoy making something beautiful. Having one person buy this video and upload it to a site where a thousand people will watch it... That's several thousand dollars I don't get to see for my work. And worse than that... It's seeing the entitlement of fans who don't feel I deserve to be paid for the work that goes into creating something like that. It hurts. It can be heart-breaking. Why would someone continue to create clips that will be stolen and stolen and stolen? Eventually, enough is enough. And walking away from clip categories that consistently pirate from you can be the best option. Because it just isn't worth the amount of time and work and energy that goes into it, knowing that you're most likely going to be robbed.
.

Devil's Advocate: Could it not be argued that members/fans/what have you who would download your clips for free rather than pay for them, were never going to pay for them to begin with? Paying for porn is a choice. Everybody knows they have a choice when it comes to paying for porn because everybody knows that all the free porn in the world is only ever a Google search away. So the people who do pay for your clips, do so, not because they need to, but because they prefer to. Not that you shouldn't be annoyed when someone pirates your videos, but if one person buys and uploads your latest video, and a further 999 people then watch it for free, I don't know that many of those 999 people would have paid for that video if it hadn't been made available to them for free. I could well be wrong though.

 

[Moros1138]

Devil's Advocate: Could it not be argued that members/fans/what have you who would download your clips for free rather than pay for them, were never going to pay for them to begin with? Paying for porn is a choice. Everybody knows they have a choice when it comes to paying for porn because everybody knows that all the free porn in the world is only ever a Google search away. So the people who do pay for your clips, do so, not because they need to, but because they prefer to. Not that you shouldn't be annoyed when someone pirates your videos, but if one person buys and uploads your latest video, and a further 999 people then watch it for free, I don't know that many of those 999 people would have paid for that video if it hadn't been made available to them for free. I could well be wrong though.

First, thanks for your point of view. I realize that piracy is a nuanced topic with several angles. I would ask that we keep the focus of this thread to piracy prevention techniques and awareness. Perhaps there is another thread, or one could be created, where the philosophical, ethical, and hypothetical discussions would be more appropriate?

Thanks again!

 

[paige_orion]

Devil's Advocate: Could it not be argued that members/fans/what have you who would download your clips for free rather than pay for them, were never going to pay for them to begin with? Paying for porn is a choice. Everybody knows they have a choice when it comes to paying for porn because everybody knows that all the free porn in the world is only ever a Google search away. So the people who do pay for your clips, do so, not because they need to, but because they prefer to. Not that you shouldn't be annoyed when someone pirates your videos, but if one person buys and uploads your latest video, and a further 999 people then watch it for free, I don't know that many of those 999 people would have paid for that video if it hadn't been made available to them for free. I could well be wrong though.

Oh, I fully understand that those 1000 people did not intend to buy a video, now or over. But if I sell a hypnosis video for 30 dollars, and 1000 people watch it for free... That is still 30,000 dollars worth of work that was stolen from me, given away for free. They were never going to buy it, but that doesn't change the amount that has been stolen. That's why people stop producing said videos. Sure, devil's advocate can say that people who want free porn will just download it regardless... But then those people can't be surprised or upset when their favorite girls stop making videos because they keep getting stolen from them.

Edit: Ah! Sorry, Moros! I replied before I saw your post asking to refrain from going off-topic! I definitely know that going down this route can become a little heated, so if a new topic is requested, I totally understand! ^_^

 

[mynameisbob84]

Oh, I fully understand that those 1000 people did not intend to buy a video, now or over. But if I sell a hypnosis video for 30 dollars, and 1000 people watch it for free... That is still 30,000 dollars worth of work that was stolen from me, given away for free. They were never going to buy it, but that doesn't change the amount that has been stolen. That's why people stop producing said videos. Sure, devil's advocate can say that people who want free porn will just download it regardless... But then those people can't be surprised or upset when their favorite girls stop making videos because they keep getting stolen from them.

I agree completely.

 

[Moros1138]

Do clip sites have some kinda dashboard with impression/page view/sales statistics for each clip?

 

[Moros1138]

Ah! Sorry, Moros! I replied before I saw your post asking to refrain from going off-topic! I definitely know that going down this route can become a little heated, so if a new topic is requested, I totally understand! ^_^

Not a problem at all!

Edit: I don't mind if it's short and sweet (even sour) interactions. Only reason I said anything was because that post could turn into it's own conversation.

Edited Edit: Also thanks

 

[paige_orion]

Do clip sites have some kinda dashboard with impression/page view/sales statistics for each clip?

All clip sites that I am a part of offer the ability to see sales statistics for each clip, but that is about it. On C4S, you can use Google Analytics to see how many page views/visitors your entire store receives and where your traffic comes from, but there is nothing that tells you how many page views each individual clip receives.

 

[Moros1138]

All clip sites that I am a part of offer the ability to see sales statistics for each clip, but that is about it. On C4S, you can use Google Analytics to see how many page views/visitors your entire store receives and where your traffic comes from, but there is nothing that tells you how many page views each individual clip receives.

Darn, info like that would have been helpful for situations when models are going solo in terms of DMCA stuff. Narrow down their searching by seeing what videos are being visited on the site, what videos are selling, etc. Still sales info may still be helpful in that regard especially if it's a relatively new video that is still being heavily advertised, but not selling well after the first couple days/weeks (forgive me I don't know appropriate time frames).